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SK Biographical Dictionary RE: [Slovak-World] Re: Questions on ch.5

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  • Plichta
    There is a more recent list of distinguished Slovaks: Slovak Biographical Dictionary , written by PhDr Augustin Mat ovcik et al. The text contains
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 3 6:48 AM
      There is a more recent list of distinguished Slovaks:

      "Slovak Biographical Dictionary", written by PhDr Augustin Mat'ovcik et al.

      The text contains biographical data on 800 Slovaks (from all time periods)
      and was published by Biographical Institute of Matica Slovenska's Natural
      Culture Memorial, Martin.

      The First English Edition was published in 2002.



      Frank R. Plichta

      Galax, Virginia



      _____

      From: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of konekta@...
      Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:40 AM
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [SPAM]RE: [Slovak-World] Re: Questions on ch.5


      I have a 100 years old book called The development of the slovak
      consciousness; the author complains, that however he counts, he can not find
      more than 50 distinguished and active patriots.
      He presents a very long list of all known slovak persons in Slovakia and
      abroad, who were declared patriots, though. Regards,
      Vladimir






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Martin Votruba
      ... A well phrased argument. ... Check the chapter we re reading and discussing, please. The number of Jews was negligible in the sum total of the Slovak
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 3 9:09 AM
        > Slovakian consciousness in 1600 is a joke.

        A well phrased argument.


        > I also can not agree, that Slovaks as being farmers were no
        > different than other ethnicities;Jews were not farmers, Roma
        > were not farmers.

        Check the chapter we're reading and discussing, please. The number of
        Jews was negligible in the sum total of the Slovak majority areas and
        I explicitly excluded the Gypsies, Croats, Rusyns. I was talking
        about the Slovaks, Germans, Hungarians.


        > however he counts, he can not find
        > more than 50 distinguished and active patriots.

        That is the root of the problem. Ethnic pride, patriotism based on
        ethnicity are modern things in Central Europe that began to emerge
        200-250 years ago. No one was an active _ethnic_ patriot earlier.
        There were country patriots, for the Kingdom of Hungary in this
        instance, of many ethnicities including the Slovaks. When some people
        imagine that there was no Slovak consciousness 250+ years ago, they
        mean there were no Slovaks who demanded self-government, wrote poems
        about their ethnic past, etc. That's perfectly true for the Slovaks,
        Hungarians, Moravians, Poles, etc. It does not make any of the groups
        different from the others.

        But the "Slavic speakers" in Trencin County were called Slovaks just
        like the the "Slavic speakers" in Spis County were, and the "Hungarian
        speakers" from Novohrad County were called Hungarians just like the
        "Hungarian speakers" from Baranya Country although their respective
        dialects differed quite a bit. On the other hand the "Slavic
        speakers" of Saris Country were clearly differentiated into Slovaks
        and Rusyns although they both spoke "Slavic" and therefore, according
        to those who say there was no Slovak awareness, only Slavic, these
        Slavs and their languages should not be differentiated. Contrary to
        claims that there was none, that people thought of themselves as
        "Slavs," there was a well-documented differentiation and awareness of
        belonging to the sets of inhabitants called "Slovaks," or "Rusyns," or
        "Poles," or "Hungarians," etc.


        > Bratislava, if I am not mistaking, there were only about
        > 19 % Slovaks, many of them servants/maids.
        > Look at the cemetery names of Kosice.

        This may partly be a misunderstanding caused by the words I used.
        When I said "burghers," I meant the people who lived in towns in
        whatever capacity and for whatever reason, the councilors and servants
        alike. And 19% is plenty by comparison to the claims that there were
        none. But mainly, I meant the towns in the Slovak majority areas
        (both Bratislava and Kosice were in the Slovak/non-Slovak borderlands,
        additionally, the names in the Kosice cemetery partly reflect the
        results of 100 years of Hungarianization in the 19th century). Those
        towns were "towns" by the local standards in the the chapter we're
        reading now, no matter how much or little resemblance they bore to
        towns like Kosice and Bratislava.

        So let me clarify -- during the period discussed in the chapter we're
        reading now, there were plenty (15%-95%) Slovak inhabitants in towns
        in the Slovak majority areas -- plenty by contrasts to claims that
        there were none or barely any -- and there was so much intermarriage
        between the Slovaks and Germans that large farming areas that used to
        be almost exclusively German had significant Slovak minorities, or
        Slovak majorities by the 19th century. The same applied to the
        inhabitants of towns.

        This is as much as I'll have to say on this. I'm reluctant to mix
        "jokes" with factual discussion.


        Martin
      • Ron Matviyak
        For a view of the current attitudes and German-American interpretation of the history of Germans in Slovakia, it may be good to start with several pages and
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 3 11:46 AM
          For a view of the current attitudes and German-American interpretation
          of the history of Germans in Slovakia, it may be good to start with
          several pages and some writings by one of S-W contributors, Thomas
          Reimer.
          http://www.geocities.com/ycrtmr/
          and perhaps two variations on the same web page,
          http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/ESE/slovak-e.html
          http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/ESE/slovak.html

          I say German-American much the same as I would say Slovak-American.
          Our American view is not necessarily the same as the home-grown Slovak
          view. There is a lot on politics and not so much on life style and
          culture over the centuries. The writing harks back to the old style
          before the more modern histories and writings started to appear in the
          1990's. Much like the Hungarian writing of the old era the history is
          presented as that of Germans to the point of neglecting other ethnic
          groups (and the Hungarians!) and presenting most all location names in
          German only, making it difficult to follow with modern maps and names.
          Including modern place names in parentheses would be a great help and
          service a broader audience. Recent Hungarian histories seem to have
          overcome these boundaries.

          Ron


          --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
          >
          > Ther Germans and Slovaks seemed to be two groups living side by side
          in Slovakia. Was there much contact/mixing/intermarriage was there
          between the two? Did they consider themselves separate social
          classes, seeing that the Germans were concentrated in the cities and
          mining operations while the Slovaks were mainly farmers?
          >
          > Spiesz mentions the Catholic institutions of higher learning, as
          well as the Protestant lyceum in Pres~ov. Given that the Lutherans
          placed great importance on people reading the Bible for themselves,
          were lower-level Lutheran schools established at this time? Were
          girls also included among the pupils? Were the other lower-level
          schools at that time run mainly by the Catholic Church or the state?
          >
          > H
          >
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