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national bird & flower

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  • J. Michutka
    A cousin has asked me what the national bird and national flower of Slovakia are. Google didn t get me too far--I found one site that said that the rose is
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 6, 2007
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      A cousin has asked me what the national bird and national flower of
      Slovakia are. Google didn't get me too far--I found one site that said
      that the rose is the national flower. (I do realize that there might not be
      an official national bird, flower, etc.) Can anyone help?

      Thanks,

      Julie Michutka
      jmm@...
    • Martin Votruba
      ... You re right, Julie. Your cousin s probably confusing what s practiced by the American states with countries -- how many people would be able to say
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 6, 2007
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        > there might not be an official national bird, flower, etc.

        You're right, Julie. Your cousin's probably confusing what's
        practiced by the American states with countries -- how many people
        would be able to say what's the US national animal (not bird), flower,
        tree? European countries mostly have a flag, coat of arms, and
        anthem, but hardly any have symbolic gardens and zoos sanctioned by
        the legislatures or governments the way the American states do.

        However -- animals and plants do appear in some European (and other)
        coats of arms, so people sometimes speak of "the Austrian eagle,"
        "Czech lion," "Scottish thistle," etc., or the "American eagle." But
        such European national symbols are not sanctioned the way they are by
        the American states and such references are usually to the actual
        depiction (shape, image) of the animal as it appears in the national
        coat of arms, not to the animal as such.

        In addition to that, some European peoples have popular concepts of a
        "national plant," food, drink, or some other symbols, e.g., the
        Edelweiss in Austria or the pork-cabbage-dumplings among the Czechs,
        but again -- those things are not formally sanctioned, and are are
        also ridiculed by some Europeans.

        I don't think the Slovaks have any such popular notion of a national
        flower or animal but if pressed, some would probably say that the
        eagle is, or at least was, a symbol of freedom and of their national
        movement in the 19th century. And they certainly see the bryndzove
        halusky as their national dish (they actually eat it rather rarely but
        they tend to impose it on their foreign visitors as something typical).


        Martin

        votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
      • Vladimir Bohinc
        Martin, may I add, that Lime tree is the all-slav tree (soft), while the oak is a german symbol(hard). Vladimir ... From: Martin Votruba To:
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 6, 2007
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          Martin, may I add, that Lime tree is the all-slav tree (soft), while the oak is a german symbol(hard).
          Vladimir

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Martin Votruba
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 8:00 PM
          Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: national bird & flower


          > there might not be an official national bird, flower, etc.

          You're right, Julie. Your cousin's probably confusing what's
          practiced by the American states with countries -- how many people
          would be able to say what's the US national animal (not bird), flower,
          tree? European countries mostly have a flag, coat of arms, and
          anthem, but hardly any have symbolic gardens and zoos sanctioned by
          the legislatures or governments the way the American states do.

          However -- animals and plants do appear in some European (and other)
          coats of arms, so people sometimes speak of "the Austrian eagle,"
          "Czech lion," "Scottish thistle," etc., or the "American eagle." But
          such European national symbols are not sanctioned the way they are by
          the American states and such references are usually to the actual
          depiction (shape, image) of the animal as it appears in the national
          coat of arms, not to the animal as such.

          In addition to that, some European peoples have popular concepts of a
          "national plant," food, drink, or some other symbols, e.g., the
          Edelweiss in Austria or the pork-cabbage-dumplings among the Czechs,
          but again -- those things are not formally sanctioned, and are are
          also ridiculed by some Europeans.

          I don't think the Slovaks have any such popular notion of a national
          flower or animal but if pressed, some would probably say that the
          eagle is, or at least was, a symbol of freedom and of their national
          movement in the 19th century. And they certainly see the bryndzove
          halusky as their national dish (they actually eat it rather rarely but
          they tend to impose it on their foreign visitors as something typical).

          Martin

          votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





          __________ Informacia od NOD32 1958 (20070105) __________

          Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
          http://www.eset.sk


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Vladimir Bohinc
          The Poles have a joke about the Austrians saying that their war flag is a white eagle on a white background. Vladimir ... From: Martin Votruba To:
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 6, 2007
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            The Poles have a joke about the Austrians saying that their war flag is a white eagle on a white background.
            Vladimir

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Martin Votruba
            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 8:00 PM
            Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: national bird & flower


            > there might not be an official national bird, flower, etc.

            You're right, Julie. Your cousin's probably confusing what's
            practiced by the American states with countries -- how many people
            would be able to say what's the US national animal (not bird), flower,
            tree? European countries mostly have a flag, coat of arms, and
            anthem, but hardly any have symbolic gardens and zoos sanctioned by
            the legislatures or governments the way the American states do.

            However -- animals and plants do appear in some European (and other)
            coats of arms, so people sometimes speak of "the Austrian eagle,"
            "Czech lion," "Scottish thistle," etc., or the "American eagle." But
            such European national symbols are not sanctioned the way they are by
            the American states and such references are usually to the actual
            depiction (shape, image) of the animal as it appears in the national
            coat of arms, not to the animal as such.

            In addition to that, some European peoples have popular concepts of a
            "national plant," food, drink, or some other symbols, e.g., the
            Edelweiss in Austria or the pork-cabbage-dumplings among the Czechs,
            but again -- those things are not formally sanctioned, and are are
            also ridiculed by some Europeans.

            I don't think the Slovaks have any such popular notion of a national
            flower or animal but if pressed, some would probably say that the
            eagle is, or at least was, a symbol of freedom and of their national
            movement in the 19th century. And they certainly see the bryndzove
            halusky as their national dish (they actually eat it rather rarely but
            they tend to impose it on their foreign visitors as something typical).

            Martin

            votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





            __________ Informacia od NOD32 1958 (20070105) __________

            Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
            http://www.eset.sk


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Martin Votruba
            ... This is an interesting topic, Vladimir (it was funny about the Austrian symbol!). That opposition was actually a programmatic decision by the Habsburg
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 6, 2007
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              > Lime tree is the all-slav tree (soft), while the
              > oak is a german symbol(hard).

              This is an interesting topic, Vladimir (it was funny about the
              Austrian symbol!). That opposition was actually a programmatic
              decision by the Habsburg Slavs' delegates to the Pan-Slavic Congress
              in 1848. Until then the mythologies concerning both the oak and the
              lime/linden tree were common among the Slavs just like among other
              European folks. For instance, the Slovak poet Jan Kollar, whose works
              became quite influential among the Slavic activists in the Habsburg
              monarchy, still used the oak as a symbol of Slavdom (and, in a veiled
              way, Russia) in his Daughter of Slava in 1824.

              From among all the Europeans it was only among the Germanic peoples
              that the oak became a dominant mythological tree, and touted so by
              their activists. So the delegates to the Pan-Slavic Congress decided
              that they would "de-select" the oak from their images of Slavic
              mythology and tout the linden.

              Anthropologists say that the oak was the "residence" of the powerful
              Slavic god of thunder and lightning (Perun). That paralleled the role
              of the tree in other European mythologies. For instance, the Romans
              associated the oak with the reigning god Jupiter (also the master of
              thunder).

              The symbolic polarization oak=hard-x-linden=soft ("masculine --
              feminine") is old, too, derived from the properties of the wood, of
              course. In Ovid's presumably Ancient Greek myth of Philemon and
              Baucis, he is turned into an oak and she into a linden. The Slavic
              activists tied this in with the German philosopher Herder's
              description of the Slavs, in which he called them peaceful, opposed to
              wars, and the myth of the dove-like Slavs and their linden tree set
              sail in 1848. The prominent 19th century Slovak activist Ludovit Stur
              said, for instance, that "the linden blooms after the oak," meaning
              that the Slavs would get ahead of the Germans (I wonder how many
              people are still holding their breath).


              Martin

              votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
            • Vladimir Bohinc
              Dear Martin, Symbolics is not a matter of accidental choice, but always has something to it. Just my statement. Not that I appose to anything you wrote. I
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 7, 2007
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                Dear Martin,
                Symbolics is not a matter of accidental choice, but always has something to it. Just my statement. Not that I appose to anything you wrote. I agree completely.
                It was and in many cases still is a custom, that the linden was planted in the middle of a slavic village or settlement. The elders then had their meetings under it's rich shadow.
                Maybe the oldest linden tree is in front of the Bojnice castle. If I am not mistaking, it is about 750 years old. So I would guess, this linden as a slavic symbol is very very old.
                Comparing the german and slavic ethnicity ,both oak and linden tree correspond very much to the characteristics of the people.
                A Slav would shed a tear rather than a german. Be it in joy or sorrow. A male Slav would kiss another male Slav, while a German would not.
                Vladimir

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Martin Votruba
                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 12:58 AM
                Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: national bird & flower


                > Lime tree is the all-slav tree (soft), while the
                > oak is a german symbol(hard).

                This is an interesting topic, Vladimir (it was funny about the
                Austrian symbol!). That opposition was actually a programmatic
                decision by the Habsburg Slavs' delegates to the Pan-Slavic Congress
                in 1848. Until then the mythologies concerning both the oak and the
                lime/linden tree were common among the Slavs just like among other
                European folks. For instance, the Slovak poet Jan Kollar, whose works
                became quite influential among the Slavic activists in the Habsburg
                monarchy, still used the oak as a symbol of Slavdom (and, in a veiled
                way, Russia) in his Daughter of Slava in 1824.

                From among all the Europeans it was only among the Germanic peoples
                that the oak became a dominant mythological tree, and touted so by
                their activists. So the delegates to the Pan-Slavic Congress decided
                that they would "de-select" the oak from their images of Slavic
                mythology and tout the linden.

                Anthropologists say that the oak was the "residence" of the powerful
                Slavic god of thunder and lightning (Perun). That paralleled the role
                of the tree in other European mythologies. For instance, the Romans
                associated the oak with the reigning god Jupiter (also the master of
                thunder).

                The symbolic polarization oak=hard-x-linden=soft ("masculine --
                feminine") is old, too, derived from the properties of the wood, of
                course. In Ovid's presumably Ancient Greek myth of Philemon and
                Baucis, he is turned into an oak and she into a linden. The Slavic
                activists tied this in with the German philosopher Herder's
                description of the Slavs, in which he called them peaceful, opposed to
                wars, and the myth of the dove-like Slavs and their linden tree set
                sail in 1848. The prominent 19th century Slovak activist Ludovit Stur
                said, for instance, that "the linden blooms after the oak," meaning
                that the Slavs would get ahead of the Germans (I wonder how many
                people are still holding their breath).

                Martin

                votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





                __________ Informacia od NOD32 1958 (20070105) __________

                Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
                http://www.eset.sk


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • cvargacvarga
                The oak is very important in tradition German lore. At one time the German deck of card had three suits and the oak leaf was one of them. (I can t quite
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 7, 2007
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                  The oak is very important in tradition German lore. At one time the German deck of card
                  had three suits and the oak leaf was one of them. (I can't quite remember the other two,
                  but I think acorns were another.)

                  Colin

                  --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Votruba" <votrubam@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Lime tree is the all-slav tree (soft), while the
                  > > oak is a german symbol(hard).
                  >
                  > This is an interesting topic, Vladimir (it was funny about the
                  > Austrian symbol!). That opposition was actually a programmatic
                  > decision by the Habsburg Slavs' delegates to the Pan-Slavic Congress
                  > in 1848. Until then the mythologies concerning both the oak and the
                  > lime/linden tree were common among the Slavs just like among other
                  > European folks. For instance, the Slovak poet Jan Kollar, whose works
                  > became quite influential among the Slavic activists in the Habsburg
                  > monarchy, still used the oak as a symbol of Slavdom (and, in a veiled
                  > way, Russia) in his Daughter of Slava in 1824.
                  >
                  > From among all the Europeans it was only among the Germanic peoples
                  > that the oak became a dominant mythological tree, and touted so by
                  > their activists. So the delegates to the Pan-Slavic Congress decided
                  > that they would "de-select" the oak from their images of Slavic
                  > mythology and tout the linden.
                  >
                  > Anthropologists say that the oak was the "residence" of the powerful
                  > Slavic god of thunder and lightning (Perun). That paralleled the role
                  > of the tree in other European mythologies. For instance, the Romans
                  > associated the oak with the reigning god Jupiter (also the master of
                  > thunder).
                  >
                  > The symbolic polarization oak=hard-x-linden=soft ("masculine --
                  > feminine") is old, too, derived from the properties of the wood, of
                  > course. In Ovid's presumably Ancient Greek myth of Philemon and
                  > Baucis, he is turned into an oak and she into a linden. The Slavic
                  > activists tied this in with the German philosopher Herder's
                  > description of the Slavs, in which he called them peaceful, opposed to
                  > wars, and the myth of the dove-like Slavs and their linden tree set
                  > sail in 1848. The prominent 19th century Slovak activist Ludovit Stur
                  > said, for instance, that "the linden blooms after the oak," meaning
                  > that the Slavs would get ahead of the Germans (I wonder how many
                  > people are still holding their breath).
                  >
                  >
                  > Martin
                  >
                  > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                  >
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