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Re: Slovak scholars please help.

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  • Martin Votruba
    ... I agree, Helen. I m not basing my guess on handwriting, Andrea. My guess was not based on whether it s _no-_ or _na-_, it ll remain the same regardless
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
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      > "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

      I agree, Helen. I'm not basing my guess on handwriting, Andrea. My
      guess was not based on whether it's _no-_ or _na-_, it'll remain the
      same regardless of which of the two it is.

      It was not unusual for the Slovak-Americans to transcribe the Slovak
      [a] with the letter _o_. The American [o] in _not_, for example_,
      sounds like a transcription of the Slovak sound [a] to the Slovaks so
      it's not surprising that those more familiar with the English
      spelling, or not particularly good at spelling in either of the two
      languages, sometimes transcribed a Slovak word with an [a] with the
      letter _o_ in English.

      The reading _na motori_ both matches the use of the preposition _z_
      used in the preceding phrase _z majny_, and explains why the final
      sound is [i]: it is the case ending required by the preposition _na_
      in this construction, "I was unconscious (literally 'didn't know about
      that') when they pulled (literally: 'drove out/gave a ride out') me on
      a motor out of the mine."

      tanier - na tanieri
      majer - na majeri, etc.


      Martin

      votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
    • Andrea Vangor
      Yes, I have seen it and it is really funny. An under-appreciated corner of our culture. ... From: Caye Caswick To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com Sent:
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
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        Yes, I have seen it and it is really funny. An under-appreciated corner of our culture.


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Caye Caswick
        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:46 AM
        Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.



        There is a clever one (although it doesn't
        specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like
        Coal Speak -- if you Google "coal speak" I'm sure
        you'll find it -- it has a "dictionary" of
        pronounciation and definitions (very clever) -- also
        some excellent sleighing routes (using various fun
        things you can find around the home/yard as vehicles)
        -- check it out for fun.

        Caye

        --- Andrea Vangor <drav@...> wrote:

        > What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker
        > Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn
        > by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the
        > context. His relative was badly injured in a mine
        > disaster and was writing home to describe it.
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Helen Fedor
        > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
        > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars
        > please help.
        >
        >
        > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
        >
        > H
        >
        > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
        > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the
        > no-motor? A real mule?
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: ssultonia
        > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
        > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please
        > help.
        >
        > In some mining areas I think they continued to
        > call the motorized
        > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put
        > out to pasture.
        > Bill
        >
        > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor"
        > <hfed@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
        > http://images.google.com/imgres?
        >
        >
        imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
        >
        >
        jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
        >
        >
        h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
        >
        >
        0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
        > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
        > >
        > > H
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
        > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph
        > or drawing of
        > one.
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: David
        > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
        > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars
        > please help.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars
        > into the mine.
        > It is
        > > called a "mine motor."
        > > Dave
        > >
        > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
        > >
        > > >This is what happens when languages come in
        > contact,
        > specifically
        > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my
        > own family, we
        > were
        > > >almost shameless about it. English words were
        > taken into Slovak
        > and
        > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
        > > >
        > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of
        > NOMODOR, which is
        > how
        > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't
        > know anything
        > about
        > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece
        > of equipment
        > (like a
        > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even
        > informally? He
        > says
        > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't
        > remember, even
        > when
        > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with
        > vehicles) him out of
        > the mine.
        > > >
        > > >I hope this helps,
        > > >H
        > > >
        > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06
        > 4:15 PM >>>
        > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line
        > from his
        > relative who
        > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is
        > interesting from a
        > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a
        > man aged 32 when
        > he
        > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but
        > he quickly
        > adopted a
        > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and
        > used them in his
        > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes
        > translation
        > difficult.
        > > >
        > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I
        > have in large
        > caps.
        > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized
        > English word. The
        > second
        > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
        > > >
        > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja
        > som o tom
        > nevedel, ked
        > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine
        > ... resp. out of
        > the mine )
        > > >
        > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
        > removed]
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
        > removed]
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
        > removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
        > removed]
        >
        >

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      • Andrea Vangor
        I d love to post it but Yahoo! seems to have forgotten who I am. I ll have to re-register, unless someone wants to post it for me. ... From: Helen Fedor To:
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
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          I'd love to post it but Yahoo! seems to have forgotten who I am. I'll have to re-register, unless someone wants to post it for me.

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Helen Fedor
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:34 AM
          Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


          Please post it for all to see. "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

          H

          >>> drav@... 12/06/06 9:18 AM >>>
          Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Martin Votruba
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
          Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.

          >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
          > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

          I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
          is na motori "on the motor."

          Martin

          votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu

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