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Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.

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  • Andrea Vangor
    Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
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      Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Martin Votruba
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
      Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


      >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
      > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

      I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
      is na motori "on the motor."

      Martin

      votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Helen Fedor
      Please post it for all to see. O s and a s can look very much alike in handwriting. H ... Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
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        Please post it for all to see. "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

        H


        >>> drav@... 12/06/06 9:18 AM >>>
        Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Martin Votruba
        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
        Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


        >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
        > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

        I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
        is na motori "on the motor."

        Martin

        votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Caye Caswick
        There is a clever one (although it doesn t specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like Coal Speak -- if you Google coal speak I m sure you ll find
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
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          There is a clever one (although it doesn't
          specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like
          Coal Speak -- if you Google "coal speak" I'm sure
          you'll find it -- it has a "dictionary" of
          pronounciation and definitions (very clever) -- also
          some excellent sleighing routes (using various fun
          things you can find around the home/yard as vehicles)
          -- check it out for fun.



          Caye



          --- Andrea Vangor <drav@...> wrote:

          > What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker
          > Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn
          > by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the
          > context. His relative was badly injured in a mine
          > disaster and was writing home to describe it.
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Helen Fedor
          > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
          > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars
          > please help.
          >
          >
          > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
          >
          > H
          >
          > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
          > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the
          > no-motor? A real mule?
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: ssultonia
          > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
          > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please
          > help.
          >
          > In some mining areas I think they continued to
          > call the motorized
          > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put
          > out to pasture.
          > Bill
          >
          > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor"
          > <hfed@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
          > http://images.google.com/imgres?
          >
          >
          imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
          >
          >
          jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
          >
          >
          h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
          >
          >
          0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
          > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
          > >
          > > H
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
          > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph
          > or drawing of
          > one.
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: David
          > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
          > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars
          > please help.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars
          > into the mine.
          > It is
          > > called a "mine motor."
          > > Dave
          > >
          > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
          > >
          > > >This is what happens when languages come in
          > contact,
          > specifically
          > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my
          > own family, we
          > were
          > > >almost shameless about it. English words were
          > taken into Slovak
          > and
          > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
          > > >
          > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of
          > NOMODOR, which is
          > how
          > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't
          > know anything
          > about
          > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece
          > of equipment
          > (like a
          > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even
          > informally? He
          > says
          > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't
          > remember, even
          > when
          > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with
          > vehicles) him out of
          > the mine.
          > > >
          > > >I hope this helps,
          > > >H
          > > >
          > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06
          > 4:15 PM >>>
          > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line
          > from his
          > relative who
          > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is
          > interesting from a
          > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a
          > man aged 32 when
          > he
          > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but
          > he quickly
          > adopted a
          > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and
          > used them in his
          > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes
          > translation
          > difficult.
          > > >
          > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I
          > have in large
          > caps.
          > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized
          > English word. The
          > second
          > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
          > > >
          > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja
          > som o tom
          > nevedel, ked
          > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine
          > ... resp. out of
          > the mine )
          > > >
          > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
          > removed]
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
          > removed]
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
          > removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
          > removed]
          >
          >




          ____________________________________________________________________________________
          Have a burning question?
          Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.
        • Martin Votruba
          ... I agree, Helen. I m not basing my guess on handwriting, Andrea. My guess was not based on whether it s _no-_ or _na-_, it ll remain the same regardless
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
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            > "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

            I agree, Helen. I'm not basing my guess on handwriting, Andrea. My
            guess was not based on whether it's _no-_ or _na-_, it'll remain the
            same regardless of which of the two it is.

            It was not unusual for the Slovak-Americans to transcribe the Slovak
            [a] with the letter _o_. The American [o] in _not_, for example_,
            sounds like a transcription of the Slovak sound [a] to the Slovaks so
            it's not surprising that those more familiar with the English
            spelling, or not particularly good at spelling in either of the two
            languages, sometimes transcribed a Slovak word with an [a] with the
            letter _o_ in English.

            The reading _na motori_ both matches the use of the preposition _z_
            used in the preceding phrase _z majny_, and explains why the final
            sound is [i]: it is the case ending required by the preposition _na_
            in this construction, "I was unconscious (literally 'didn't know about
            that') when they pulled (literally: 'drove out/gave a ride out') me on
            a motor out of the mine."

            tanier - na tanieri
            majer - na majeri, etc.


            Martin

            votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
          • Andrea Vangor
            Yes, I have seen it and it is really funny. An under-appreciated corner of our culture. ... From: Caye Caswick To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com Sent:
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Yes, I have seen it and it is really funny. An under-appreciated corner of our culture.


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Caye Caswick
              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:46 AM
              Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.



              There is a clever one (although it doesn't
              specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like
              Coal Speak -- if you Google "coal speak" I'm sure
              you'll find it -- it has a "dictionary" of
              pronounciation and definitions (very clever) -- also
              some excellent sleighing routes (using various fun
              things you can find around the home/yard as vehicles)
              -- check it out for fun.

              Caye

              --- Andrea Vangor <drav@...> wrote:

              > What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker
              > Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn
              > by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the
              > context. His relative was badly injured in a mine
              > disaster and was writing home to describe it.
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Helen Fedor
              > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
              > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars
              > please help.
              >
              >
              > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
              >
              > H
              >
              > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
              > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the
              > no-motor? A real mule?
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: ssultonia
              > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
              > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please
              > help.
              >
              > In some mining areas I think they continued to
              > call the motorized
              > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put
              > out to pasture.
              > Bill
              >
              > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor"
              > <hfed@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
              > http://images.google.com/imgres?
              >
              >
              imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
              >
              >
              jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
              >
              >
              h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
              >
              >
              0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
              > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
              > >
              > > H
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
              > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph
              > or drawing of
              > one.
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: David
              > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
              > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars
              > please help.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars
              > into the mine.
              > It is
              > > called a "mine motor."
              > > Dave
              > >
              > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
              > >
              > > >This is what happens when languages come in
              > contact,
              > specifically
              > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my
              > own family, we
              > were
              > > >almost shameless about it. English words were
              > taken into Slovak
              > and
              > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
              > > >
              > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of
              > NOMODOR, which is
              > how
              > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't
              > know anything
              > about
              > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece
              > of equipment
              > (like a
              > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even
              > informally? He
              > says
              > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't
              > remember, even
              > when
              > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with
              > vehicles) him out of
              > the mine.
              > > >
              > > >I hope this helps,
              > > >H
              > > >
              > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06
              > 4:15 PM >>>
              > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line
              > from his
              > relative who
              > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is
              > interesting from a
              > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a
              > man aged 32 when
              > he
              > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but
              > he quickly
              > adopted a
              > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and
              > used them in his
              > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes
              > translation
              > difficult.
              > > >
              > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I
              > have in large
              > caps.
              > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized
              > English word. The
              > second
              > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
              > > >
              > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja
              > som o tom
              > nevedel, ked
              > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine
              > ... resp. out of
              > the mine )
              > > >
              > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >

              __________________________________________________________
              Have a burning question?
              Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Andrea Vangor
              I d love to post it but Yahoo! seems to have forgotten who I am. I ll have to re-register, unless someone wants to post it for me. ... From: Helen Fedor To:
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                I'd love to post it but Yahoo! seems to have forgotten who I am. I'll have to re-register, unless someone wants to post it for me.

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Helen Fedor
                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:34 AM
                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                Please post it for all to see. "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

                H

                >>> drav@... 12/06/06 9:18 AM >>>
                Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Martin Votruba
                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
                Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.

                >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                is na motori "on the motor."

                Martin

                votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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