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Re: Slovak scholars please help.

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  • ssultonia
    Geez. It was slang used by Slovak miners,Italian miners, Irish miners, American miners - nothing more, nothing less. Bill ... mule?
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
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      Geez. It was slang used by Slovak miners,Italian miners, Irish
      miners, American miners - nothing more, nothing less.
      Bill


      --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
      >
      > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
      >
      > H
      >
      >
      >
      > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
      > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real
      mule?
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: ssultonia
      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
      > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.
      >
      >
      > In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
      > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
      > Bill
      >
      > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
      > http://images.google.com/imgres?
      > imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
      > jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
      > h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
      > 0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
      > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
      > >
      > > H
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > >>> drav@ 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
      > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
      > one.
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: David
      > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
      > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
      > It is
      > > called a "mine motor."
      > > Dave
      > >
      > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
      > >
      > > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
      > specifically
      > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
      > were
      > > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
      > and
      > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
      > > >
      > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
      > how
      > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
      > about
      > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
      > (like a
      > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
      > says
      > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
      > when
      > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
      > the mine.
      > > >
      > > >I hope this helps,
      > > >H
      > > >
      > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@ 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
      > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
      > relative who
      > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
      > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
      > he
      > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
      > adopted a
      > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
      > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
      > difficult.
      > > >
      > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
      > caps.
      > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
      > second
      > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
      > > >
      > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
      > nevedel, ked
      > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
      > the mine )
      > > >
      > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Martin Votruba
      ... I d say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny from the mine, _nomodri_ is na motori on the motor. Martin votruba at pitt dot edu
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
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        >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
        > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

        I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
        is na motori "on the motor."


        Martin

        votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
      • Andrea Vangor
        Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
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          Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Martin Votruba
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
          Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


          >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
          > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

          I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
          is na motori "on the motor."

          Martin

          votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Helen Fedor
          Please post it for all to see. O s and a s can look very much alike in handwriting. H ... Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
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            Please post it for all to see. "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

            H


            >>> drav@... 12/06/06 9:18 AM >>>
            Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Martin Votruba
            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
            Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


            >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
            > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

            I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
            is na motori "on the motor."

            Martin

            votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Caye Caswick
            There is a clever one (although it doesn t specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like Coal Speak -- if you Google coal speak I m sure you ll find
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
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              There is a clever one (although it doesn't
              specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like
              Coal Speak -- if you Google "coal speak" I'm sure
              you'll find it -- it has a "dictionary" of
              pronounciation and definitions (very clever) -- also
              some excellent sleighing routes (using various fun
              things you can find around the home/yard as vehicles)
              -- check it out for fun.



              Caye



              --- Andrea Vangor <drav@...> wrote:

              > What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker
              > Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn
              > by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the
              > context. His relative was badly injured in a mine
              > disaster and was writing home to describe it.
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Helen Fedor
              > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
              > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars
              > please help.
              >
              >
              > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
              >
              > H
              >
              > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
              > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the
              > no-motor? A real mule?
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: ssultonia
              > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
              > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please
              > help.
              >
              > In some mining areas I think they continued to
              > call the motorized
              > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put
              > out to pasture.
              > Bill
              >
              > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor"
              > <hfed@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
              > http://images.google.com/imgres?
              >
              >
              imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
              >
              >
              jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
              >
              >
              h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
              >
              >
              0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
              > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
              > >
              > > H
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
              > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph
              > or drawing of
              > one.
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: David
              > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
              > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars
              > please help.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars
              > into the mine.
              > It is
              > > called a "mine motor."
              > > Dave
              > >
              > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
              > >
              > > >This is what happens when languages come in
              > contact,
              > specifically
              > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my
              > own family, we
              > were
              > > >almost shameless about it. English words were
              > taken into Slovak
              > and
              > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
              > > >
              > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of
              > NOMODOR, which is
              > how
              > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't
              > know anything
              > about
              > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece
              > of equipment
              > (like a
              > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even
              > informally? He
              > says
              > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't
              > remember, even
              > when
              > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with
              > vehicles) him out of
              > the mine.
              > > >
              > > >I hope this helps,
              > > >H
              > > >
              > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06
              > 4:15 PM >>>
              > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line
              > from his
              > relative who
              > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is
              > interesting from a
              > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a
              > man aged 32 when
              > he
              > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but
              > he quickly
              > adopted a
              > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and
              > used them in his
              > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes
              > translation
              > difficult.
              > > >
              > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I
              > have in large
              > caps.
              > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized
              > English word. The
              > second
              > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
              > > >
              > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja
              > som o tom
              > nevedel, ked
              > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine
              > ... resp. out of
              > the mine )
              > > >
              > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >




              ____________________________________________________________________________________
              Have a burning question?
              Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.
            • Martin Votruba
              ... I agree, Helen. I m not basing my guess on handwriting, Andrea. My guess was not based on whether it s _no-_ or _na-_, it ll remain the same regardless
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
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                > "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

                I agree, Helen. I'm not basing my guess on handwriting, Andrea. My
                guess was not based on whether it's _no-_ or _na-_, it'll remain the
                same regardless of which of the two it is.

                It was not unusual for the Slovak-Americans to transcribe the Slovak
                [a] with the letter _o_. The American [o] in _not_, for example_,
                sounds like a transcription of the Slovak sound [a] to the Slovaks so
                it's not surprising that those more familiar with the English
                spelling, or not particularly good at spelling in either of the two
                languages, sometimes transcribed a Slovak word with an [a] with the
                letter _o_ in English.

                The reading _na motori_ both matches the use of the preposition _z_
                used in the preceding phrase _z majny_, and explains why the final
                sound is [i]: it is the case ending required by the preposition _na_
                in this construction, "I was unconscious (literally 'didn't know about
                that') when they pulled (literally: 'drove out/gave a ride out') me on
                a motor out of the mine."

                tanier - na tanieri
                majer - na majeri, etc.


                Martin

                votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
              • Andrea Vangor
                Yes, I have seen it and it is really funny. An under-appreciated corner of our culture. ... From: Caye Caswick To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                Message 7 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Yes, I have seen it and it is really funny. An under-appreciated corner of our culture.


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Caye Caswick
                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:46 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.



                  There is a clever one (although it doesn't
                  specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like
                  Coal Speak -- if you Google "coal speak" I'm sure
                  you'll find it -- it has a "dictionary" of
                  pronounciation and definitions (very clever) -- also
                  some excellent sleighing routes (using various fun
                  things you can find around the home/yard as vehicles)
                  -- check it out for fun.

                  Caye

                  --- Andrea Vangor <drav@...> wrote:

                  > What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker
                  > Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn
                  > by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the
                  > context. His relative was badly injured in a mine
                  > disaster and was writing home to describe it.
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Helen Fedor
                  > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars
                  > please help.
                  >
                  >
                  > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
                  >
                  > H
                  >
                  > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                  > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the
                  > no-motor? A real mule?
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: ssultonia
                  > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                  > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please
                  > help.
                  >
                  > In some mining areas I think they continued to
                  > call the motorized
                  > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put
                  > out to pasture.
                  > Bill
                  >
                  > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor"
                  > <hfed@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                  > http://images.google.com/imgres?
                  >
                  >
                  imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                  >
                  >
                  jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                  >
                  >
                  h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                  >
                  >
                  0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                  > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                  > >
                  > > H
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                  > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph
                  > or drawing of
                  > one.
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: David
                  > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                  > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars
                  > please help.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars
                  > into the mine.
                  > It is
                  > > called a "mine motor."
                  > > Dave
                  > >
                  > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                  > >
                  > > >This is what happens when languages come in
                  > contact,
                  > specifically
                  > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my
                  > own family, we
                  > were
                  > > >almost shameless about it. English words were
                  > taken into Slovak
                  > and
                  > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                  > > >
                  > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of
                  > NOMODOR, which is
                  > how
                  > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't
                  > know anything
                  > about
                  > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece
                  > of equipment
                  > (like a
                  > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even
                  > informally? He
                  > says
                  > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't
                  > remember, even
                  > when
                  > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with
                  > vehicles) him out of
                  > the mine.
                  > > >
                  > > >I hope this helps,
                  > > >H
                  > > >
                  > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06
                  > 4:15 PM >>>
                  > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line
                  > from his
                  > relative who
                  > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is
                  > interesting from a
                  > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a
                  > man aged 32 when
                  > he
                  > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but
                  > he quickly
                  > adopted a
                  > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and
                  > used them in his
                  > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes
                  > translation
                  > difficult.
                  > > >
                  > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I
                  > have in large
                  > caps.
                  > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized
                  > English word. The
                  > second
                  > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                  > > >
                  > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja
                  > som o tom
                  > nevedel, ked
                  > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine
                  > ... resp. out of
                  > the mine )
                  > > >
                  > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > removed]
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > removed]
                  >
                  >

                  __________________________________________________________
                  Have a burning question?
                  Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Andrea Vangor
                  I d love to post it but Yahoo! seems to have forgotten who I am. I ll have to re-register, unless someone wants to post it for me. ... From: Helen Fedor To:
                  Message 8 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I'd love to post it but Yahoo! seems to have forgotten who I am. I'll have to re-register, unless someone wants to post it for me.

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Helen Fedor
                    To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:34 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                    Please post it for all to see. "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

                    H

                    >>> drav@... 12/06/06 9:18 AM >>>
                    Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Martin Votruba
                    To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
                    Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.

                    >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                    > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                    I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                    is na motori "on the motor."

                    Martin

                    votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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