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Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.

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  • Helen Fedor
    Or a cart hitched up to a mule. H ... Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule? ... From: ssultonia To:
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
      Or a cart hitched up to a mule.

      H



      >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
      Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule?


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: ssultonia
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
      Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


      In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
      car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
      Bill

      --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
      >
      > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
      http://images.google.com/imgres?
      imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
      jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
      h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
      0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
      26lr%3Dlang_en >.
      >
      > H
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
      > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
      one.
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: David
      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
      > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
      It is
      > called a "mine motor."
      > Dave
      >
      > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
      >
      > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
      specifically
      > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
      were
      > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
      and
      > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
      > >
      > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
      how
      > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
      about
      > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
      (like a
      > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
      says
      > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
      when
      > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
      the mine.
      > >
      > >I hope this helps,
      > >H
      > >
      > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
      > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
      relative who
      > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
      > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
      he
      > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
      adopted a
      > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
      > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
      difficult.
      > >
      > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
      caps.
      > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
      second
      > >word in caps is a good example of this.
      > >
      > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
      nevedel, ked
      > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
      the mine )
      > >
      > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Andrea Vangor
      What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker Slov-English. No-motor does suggest a cart drawn by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the context. His
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
        What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the context. His relative was badly injured in a mine disaster and was writing home to describe it.


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Helen Fedor
        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
        Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


        Or a cart hitched up to a mule.

        H

        >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
        Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule?

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: ssultonia
        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
        Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.

        In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
        car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
        Bill

        --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
        >
        > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
        http://images.google.com/imgres?
        imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
        jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
        h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
        0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
        26lr%3Dlang_en >.
        >
        > H
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
        > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
        one.
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: David
        > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
        > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
        It is
        > called a "mine motor."
        > Dave
        >
        > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
        >
        > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
        specifically
        > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
        were
        > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
        and
        > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
        > >
        > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
        how
        > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
        about
        > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
        (like a
        > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
        says
        > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
        when
        > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
        the mine.
        > >
        > >I hope this helps,
        > >H
        > >
        > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
        > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
        relative who
        > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
        > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
        he
        > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
        adopted a
        > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
        > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
        difficult.
        > >
        > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
        caps.
        > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
        second
        > >word in caps is a good example of this.
        > >
        > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
        nevedel, ked
        > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
        the mine )
        > >
        > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • ssultonia
        Geez. It was slang used by Slovak miners,Italian miners, Irish miners, American miners - nothing more, nothing less. Bill ... mule?
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
          Geez. It was slang used by Slovak miners,Italian miners, Irish
          miners, American miners - nothing more, nothing less.
          Bill


          --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
          >
          > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
          >
          > H
          >
          >
          >
          > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
          > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real
          mule?
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: ssultonia
          > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
          > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.
          >
          >
          > In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
          > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
          > Bill
          >
          > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
          > http://images.google.com/imgres?
          > imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
          > jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
          > h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
          > 0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
          > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
          > >
          > > H
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > >>> drav@ 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
          > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
          > one.
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: David
          > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
          > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
          > It is
          > > called a "mine motor."
          > > Dave
          > >
          > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
          > >
          > > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
          > specifically
          > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
          > were
          > > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
          > and
          > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
          > > >
          > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
          > how
          > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
          > about
          > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
          > (like a
          > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
          > says
          > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
          > when
          > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
          > the mine.
          > > >
          > > >I hope this helps,
          > > >H
          > > >
          > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@ 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
          > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
          > relative who
          > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
          > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
          > he
          > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
          > adopted a
          > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
          > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
          > difficult.
          > > >
          > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
          > caps.
          > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
          > second
          > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
          > > >
          > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
          > nevedel, ked
          > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
          > the mine )
          > > >
          > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Martin Votruba
          ... I d say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny from the mine, _nomodri_ is na motori on the motor. Martin votruba at pitt dot edu
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
            >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
            > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

            I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
            is na motori "on the motor."


            Martin

            votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
          • Andrea Vangor
            Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
              Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Martin Votruba
              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
              Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


              >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
              > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

              I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
              is na motori "on the motor."

              Martin

              votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Helen Fedor
              Please post it for all to see. O s and a s can look very much alike in handwriting. H ... Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                Please post it for all to see. "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

                H


                >>> drav@... 12/06/06 9:18 AM >>>
                Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Martin Votruba
                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
                Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                is na motori "on the motor."

                Martin

                votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Caye Caswick
                There is a clever one (although it doesn t specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like Coal Speak -- if you Google coal speak I m sure you ll find
                Message 7 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                  There is a clever one (although it doesn't
                  specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like
                  Coal Speak -- if you Google "coal speak" I'm sure
                  you'll find it -- it has a "dictionary" of
                  pronounciation and definitions (very clever) -- also
                  some excellent sleighing routes (using various fun
                  things you can find around the home/yard as vehicles)
                  -- check it out for fun.



                  Caye



                  --- Andrea Vangor <drav@...> wrote:

                  > What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker
                  > Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn
                  > by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the
                  > context. His relative was badly injured in a mine
                  > disaster and was writing home to describe it.
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Helen Fedor
                  > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars
                  > please help.
                  >
                  >
                  > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
                  >
                  > H
                  >
                  > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                  > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the
                  > no-motor? A real mule?
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: ssultonia
                  > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                  > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please
                  > help.
                  >
                  > In some mining areas I think they continued to
                  > call the motorized
                  > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put
                  > out to pasture.
                  > Bill
                  >
                  > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor"
                  > <hfed@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                  > http://images.google.com/imgres?
                  >
                  >
                  imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                  >
                  >
                  jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                  >
                  >
                  h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                  >
                  >
                  0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                  > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                  > >
                  > > H
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                  > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph
                  > or drawing of
                  > one.
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: David
                  > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                  > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars
                  > please help.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars
                  > into the mine.
                  > It is
                  > > called a "mine motor."
                  > > Dave
                  > >
                  > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                  > >
                  > > >This is what happens when languages come in
                  > contact,
                  > specifically
                  > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my
                  > own family, we
                  > were
                  > > >almost shameless about it. English words were
                  > taken into Slovak
                  > and
                  > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                  > > >
                  > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of
                  > NOMODOR, which is
                  > how
                  > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't
                  > know anything
                  > about
                  > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece
                  > of equipment
                  > (like a
                  > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even
                  > informally? He
                  > says
                  > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't
                  > remember, even
                  > when
                  > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with
                  > vehicles) him out of
                  > the mine.
                  > > >
                  > > >I hope this helps,
                  > > >H
                  > > >
                  > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06
                  > 4:15 PM >>>
                  > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line
                  > from his
                  > relative who
                  > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is
                  > interesting from a
                  > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a
                  > man aged 32 when
                  > he
                  > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but
                  > he quickly
                  > adopted a
                  > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and
                  > used them in his
                  > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes
                  > translation
                  > difficult.
                  > > >
                  > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I
                  > have in large
                  > caps.
                  > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized
                  > English word. The
                  > second
                  > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                  > > >
                  > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja
                  > som o tom
                  > nevedel, ked
                  > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine
                  > ... resp. out of
                  > the mine )
                  > > >
                  > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > removed]
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > removed]
                  >
                  >




                  ____________________________________________________________________________________
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                  Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.
                • Martin Votruba
                  ... I agree, Helen. I m not basing my guess on handwriting, Andrea. My guess was not based on whether it s _no-_ or _na-_, it ll remain the same regardless
                  Message 8 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                    > "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

                    I agree, Helen. I'm not basing my guess on handwriting, Andrea. My
                    guess was not based on whether it's _no-_ or _na-_, it'll remain the
                    same regardless of which of the two it is.

                    It was not unusual for the Slovak-Americans to transcribe the Slovak
                    [a] with the letter _o_. The American [o] in _not_, for example_,
                    sounds like a transcription of the Slovak sound [a] to the Slovaks so
                    it's not surprising that those more familiar with the English
                    spelling, or not particularly good at spelling in either of the two
                    languages, sometimes transcribed a Slovak word with an [a] with the
                    letter _o_ in English.

                    The reading _na motori_ both matches the use of the preposition _z_
                    used in the preceding phrase _z majny_, and explains why the final
                    sound is [i]: it is the case ending required by the preposition _na_
                    in this construction, "I was unconscious (literally 'didn't know about
                    that') when they pulled (literally: 'drove out/gave a ride out') me on
                    a motor out of the mine."

                    tanier - na tanieri
                    majer - na majeri, etc.


                    Martin

                    votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                  • Andrea Vangor
                    Yes, I have seen it and it is really funny. An under-appreciated corner of our culture. ... From: Caye Caswick To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                    Message 9 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                      Yes, I have seen it and it is really funny. An under-appreciated corner of our culture.


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Caye Caswick
                      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:46 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.



                      There is a clever one (although it doesn't
                      specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like
                      Coal Speak -- if you Google "coal speak" I'm sure
                      you'll find it -- it has a "dictionary" of
                      pronounciation and definitions (very clever) -- also
                      some excellent sleighing routes (using various fun
                      things you can find around the home/yard as vehicles)
                      -- check it out for fun.

                      Caye

                      --- Andrea Vangor <drav@...> wrote:

                      > What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker
                      > Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn
                      > by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the
                      > context. His relative was badly injured in a mine
                      > disaster and was writing home to describe it.
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Helen Fedor
                      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars
                      > please help.
                      >
                      >
                      > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
                      >
                      > H
                      >
                      > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                      > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the
                      > no-motor? A real mule?
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: ssultonia
                      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                      > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please
                      > help.
                      >
                      > In some mining areas I think they continued to
                      > call the motorized
                      > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put
                      > out to pasture.
                      > Bill
                      >
                      > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor"
                      > <hfed@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                      > http://images.google.com/imgres?
                      >
                      >
                      imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                      >
                      >
                      jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                      >
                      >
                      h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                      >
                      >
                      0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                      > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                      > >
                      > > H
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                      > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph
                      > or drawing of
                      > one.
                      > >
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: David
                      > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                      > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars
                      > please help.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars
                      > into the mine.
                      > It is
                      > > called a "mine motor."
                      > > Dave
                      > >
                      > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                      > >
                      > > >This is what happens when languages come in
                      > contact,
                      > specifically
                      > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my
                      > own family, we
                      > were
                      > > >almost shameless about it. English words were
                      > taken into Slovak
                      > and
                      > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                      > > >
                      > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of
                      > NOMODOR, which is
                      > how
                      > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't
                      > know anything
                      > about
                      > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece
                      > of equipment
                      > (like a
                      > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even
                      > informally? He
                      > says
                      > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't
                      > remember, even
                      > when
                      > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with
                      > vehicles) him out of
                      > the mine.
                      > > >
                      > > >I hope this helps,
                      > > >H
                      > > >
                      > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06
                      > 4:15 PM >>>
                      > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line
                      > from his
                      > relative who
                      > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is
                      > interesting from a
                      > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a
                      > man aged 32 when
                      > he
                      > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but
                      > he quickly
                      > adopted a
                      > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and
                      > used them in his
                      > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes
                      > translation
                      > difficult.
                      > > >
                      > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I
                      > have in large
                      > caps.
                      > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized
                      > English word. The
                      > second
                      > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                      > > >
                      > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja
                      > som o tom
                      > nevedel, ked
                      > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine
                      > ... resp. out of
                      > the mine )
                      > > >
                      > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      >
                      >

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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Andrea Vangor
                      I d love to post it but Yahoo! seems to have forgotten who I am. I ll have to re-register, unless someone wants to post it for me. ... From: Helen Fedor To:
                      Message 10 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                        I'd love to post it but Yahoo! seems to have forgotten who I am. I'll have to re-register, unless someone wants to post it for me.

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Helen Fedor
                        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:34 AM
                        Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                        Please post it for all to see. "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

                        H

                        >>> drav@... 12/06/06 9:18 AM >>>
                        Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Martin Votruba
                        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
                        Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.

                        >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                        > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                        I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                        is na motori "on the motor."

                        Martin

                        votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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