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Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.

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  • Andrea Vangor
    Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule? ... From: ssultonia To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule?


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: ssultonia
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
      Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


      In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
      car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
      Bill

      --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
      >
      > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
      http://images.google.com/imgres?
      imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
      jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
      h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
      0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
      26lr%3Dlang_en >.
      >
      > H
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
      > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
      one.
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: David
      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
      > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
      It is
      > called a "mine motor."
      > Dave
      >
      > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
      >
      > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
      specifically
      > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
      were
      > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
      and
      > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
      > >
      > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
      how
      > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
      about
      > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
      (like a
      > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
      says
      > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
      when
      > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
      the mine.
      > >
      > >I hope this helps,
      > >H
      > >
      > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
      > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
      relative who
      > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
      > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
      he
      > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
      adopted a
      > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
      > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
      difficult.
      > >
      > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
      caps.
      > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
      second
      > >word in caps is a good example of this.
      > >
      > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
      nevedel, ked
      > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
      the mine )
      > >
      > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Helen Fedor
      Quite possibly. H ... Thanks, Helen -- that s quite a web site. I sent it to Mario. What did we think a no-motor would be -- perhaps something drawn by
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
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        Quite possibly.

        H



        >>> drav@... 12/05/06 2:47 PM >>>
        Thanks, Helen -- that's quite a web site. I sent it to Mario. What did we think a "no-motor" would be -- perhaps something drawn by mules?


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Helen Fedor
        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 5:32 AM
        Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.


        Here's an old photo I found on Google images: < http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_en >.

        H

        >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
        That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of one.

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: David
        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
        Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.

        Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine. It is
        called a "mine motor."
        Dave

        At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:

        >This is what happens when languages come in contact, specifically
        >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we were
        >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak and
        >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
        >
        >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is how
        >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything about
        >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment (like a
        >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He says
        >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even when
        >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of the mine.
        >
        >I hope this helps,
        >H
        >
        > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
        >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his relative who
        >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
        >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when he
        >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly adopted a
        >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
        >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation difficult.
        >
        >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large caps.
        >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The second
        >word in caps is a good example of this.
        >
        >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom nevedel, ked
        >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of the mine )
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Helen Fedor
        Or a cart hitched up to a mule. H ... Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule? ... From: ssultonia To:
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
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          Or a cart hitched up to a mule.

          H



          >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
          Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule?


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: ssultonia
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
          Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


          In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
          car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
          Bill

          --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
          >
          > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
          http://images.google.com/imgres?
          imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
          jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
          h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
          0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
          26lr%3Dlang_en >.
          >
          > H
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
          > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
          one.
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: David
          > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
          > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
          >
          >
          >
          > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
          It is
          > called a "mine motor."
          > Dave
          >
          > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
          >
          > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
          specifically
          > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
          were
          > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
          and
          > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
          > >
          > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
          how
          > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
          about
          > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
          (like a
          > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
          says
          > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
          when
          > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
          the mine.
          > >
          > >I hope this helps,
          > >H
          > >
          > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
          > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
          relative who
          > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
          > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
          he
          > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
          adopted a
          > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
          > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
          difficult.
          > >
          > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
          caps.
          > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
          second
          > >word in caps is a good example of this.
          > >
          > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
          nevedel, ked
          > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
          the mine )
          > >
          > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Andrea Vangor
          What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker Slov-English. No-motor does suggest a cart drawn by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the context. His
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the context. His relative was badly injured in a mine disaster and was writing home to describe it.


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Helen Fedor
            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
            Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


            Or a cart hitched up to a mule.

            H

            >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
            Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule?

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: ssultonia
            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
            Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.

            In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
            car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
            Bill

            --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
            >
            > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
            http://images.google.com/imgres?
            imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
            jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
            h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
            0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
            26lr%3Dlang_en >.
            >
            > H
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
            > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
            one.
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: David
            > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
            > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
            >
            >
            >
            > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
            It is
            > called a "mine motor."
            > Dave
            >
            > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
            >
            > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
            specifically
            > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
            were
            > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
            and
            > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
            > >
            > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
            how
            > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
            about
            > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
            (like a
            > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
            says
            > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
            when
            > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
            the mine.
            > >
            > >I hope this helps,
            > >H
            > >
            > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
            > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
            relative who
            > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
            > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
            he
            > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
            adopted a
            > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
            > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
            difficult.
            > >
            > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
            caps.
            > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
            second
            > >word in caps is a good example of this.
            > >
            > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
            nevedel, ked
            > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
            the mine )
            > >
            > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • ssultonia
            Geez. It was slang used by Slovak miners,Italian miners, Irish miners, American miners - nothing more, nothing less. Bill ... mule?
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Geez. It was slang used by Slovak miners,Italian miners, Irish
              miners, American miners - nothing more, nothing less.
              Bill


              --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
              >
              > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
              >
              > H
              >
              >
              >
              > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
              > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real
              mule?
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: ssultonia
              > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
              > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.
              >
              >
              > In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
              > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
              > Bill
              >
              > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
              > http://images.google.com/imgres?
              > imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
              > jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
              > h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
              > 0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
              > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
              > >
              > > H
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > >>> drav@ 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
              > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
              > one.
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: David
              > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
              > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
              > It is
              > > called a "mine motor."
              > > Dave
              > >
              > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
              > >
              > > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
              > specifically
              > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
              > were
              > > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
              > and
              > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
              > > >
              > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
              > how
              > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
              > about
              > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
              > (like a
              > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
              > says
              > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
              > when
              > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
              > the mine.
              > > >
              > > >I hope this helps,
              > > >H
              > > >
              > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@ 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
              > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
              > relative who
              > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
              > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
              > he
              > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
              > adopted a
              > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
              > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
              > difficult.
              > > >
              > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
              > caps.
              > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
              > second
              > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
              > > >
              > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
              > nevedel, ked
              > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
              > the mine )
              > > >
              > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Martin Votruba
              ... I d say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny from the mine, _nomodri_ is na motori on the motor. Martin votruba at pitt dot edu
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                is na motori "on the motor."


                Martin

                votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
              • Andrea Vangor
                Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.
                Message 7 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Martin Votruba
                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
                  Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                  >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                  > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                  I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                  is na motori "on the motor."

                  Martin

                  votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Helen Fedor
                  Please post it for all to see. O s and a s can look very much alike in handwriting. H ... Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you
                  Message 8 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
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                    Please post it for all to see. "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

                    H


                    >>> drav@... 12/06/06 9:18 AM >>>
                    Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Martin Votruba
                    To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
                    Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                    >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                    > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                    I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                    is na motori "on the motor."

                    Martin

                    votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Caye Caswick
                    There is a clever one (although it doesn t specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like Coal Speak -- if you Google coal speak I m sure you ll find
                    Message 9 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      There is a clever one (although it doesn't
                      specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like
                      Coal Speak -- if you Google "coal speak" I'm sure
                      you'll find it -- it has a "dictionary" of
                      pronounciation and definitions (very clever) -- also
                      some excellent sleighing routes (using various fun
                      things you can find around the home/yard as vehicles)
                      -- check it out for fun.



                      Caye



                      --- Andrea Vangor <drav@...> wrote:

                      > What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker
                      > Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn
                      > by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the
                      > context. His relative was badly injured in a mine
                      > disaster and was writing home to describe it.
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Helen Fedor
                      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars
                      > please help.
                      >
                      >
                      > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
                      >
                      > H
                      >
                      > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                      > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the
                      > no-motor? A real mule?
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: ssultonia
                      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                      > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please
                      > help.
                      >
                      > In some mining areas I think they continued to
                      > call the motorized
                      > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put
                      > out to pasture.
                      > Bill
                      >
                      > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor"
                      > <hfed@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                      > http://images.google.com/imgres?
                      >
                      >
                      imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                      >
                      >
                      jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                      >
                      >
                      h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                      >
                      >
                      0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                      > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                      > >
                      > > H
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                      > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph
                      > or drawing of
                      > one.
                      > >
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: David
                      > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                      > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars
                      > please help.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars
                      > into the mine.
                      > It is
                      > > called a "mine motor."
                      > > Dave
                      > >
                      > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                      > >
                      > > >This is what happens when languages come in
                      > contact,
                      > specifically
                      > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my
                      > own family, we
                      > were
                      > > >almost shameless about it. English words were
                      > taken into Slovak
                      > and
                      > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                      > > >
                      > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of
                      > NOMODOR, which is
                      > how
                      > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't
                      > know anything
                      > about
                      > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece
                      > of equipment
                      > (like a
                      > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even
                      > informally? He
                      > says
                      > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't
                      > remember, even
                      > when
                      > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with
                      > vehicles) him out of
                      > the mine.
                      > > >
                      > > >I hope this helps,
                      > > >H
                      > > >
                      > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06
                      > 4:15 PM >>>
                      > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line
                      > from his
                      > relative who
                      > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is
                      > interesting from a
                      > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a
                      > man aged 32 when
                      > he
                      > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but
                      > he quickly
                      > adopted a
                      > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and
                      > used them in his
                      > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes
                      > translation
                      > difficult.
                      > > >
                      > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I
                      > have in large
                      > caps.
                      > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized
                      > English word. The
                      > second
                      > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                      > > >
                      > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja
                      > som o tom
                      > nevedel, ked
                      > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine
                      > ... resp. out of
                      > the mine )
                      > > >
                      > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      >
                      >




                      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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                      Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.
                    • Martin Votruba
                      ... I agree, Helen. I m not basing my guess on handwriting, Andrea. My guess was not based on whether it s _no-_ or _na-_, it ll remain the same regardless
                      Message 10 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        > "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

                        I agree, Helen. I'm not basing my guess on handwriting, Andrea. My
                        guess was not based on whether it's _no-_ or _na-_, it'll remain the
                        same regardless of which of the two it is.

                        It was not unusual for the Slovak-Americans to transcribe the Slovak
                        [a] with the letter _o_. The American [o] in _not_, for example_,
                        sounds like a transcription of the Slovak sound [a] to the Slovaks so
                        it's not surprising that those more familiar with the English
                        spelling, or not particularly good at spelling in either of the two
                        languages, sometimes transcribed a Slovak word with an [a] with the
                        letter _o_ in English.

                        The reading _na motori_ both matches the use of the preposition _z_
                        used in the preceding phrase _z majny_, and explains why the final
                        sound is [i]: it is the case ending required by the preposition _na_
                        in this construction, "I was unconscious (literally 'didn't know about
                        that') when they pulled (literally: 'drove out/gave a ride out') me on
                        a motor out of the mine."

                        tanier - na tanieri
                        majer - na majeri, etc.


                        Martin

                        votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                      • Andrea Vangor
                        Yes, I have seen it and it is really funny. An under-appreciated corner of our culture. ... From: Caye Caswick To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                        Message 11 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Yes, I have seen it and it is really funny. An under-appreciated corner of our culture.


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Caye Caswick
                          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:46 AM
                          Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.



                          There is a clever one (although it doesn't
                          specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like
                          Coal Speak -- if you Google "coal speak" I'm sure
                          you'll find it -- it has a "dictionary" of
                          pronounciation and definitions (very clever) -- also
                          some excellent sleighing routes (using various fun
                          things you can find around the home/yard as vehicles)
                          -- check it out for fun.

                          Caye

                          --- Andrea Vangor <drav@...> wrote:

                          > What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker
                          > Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn
                          > by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the
                          > context. His relative was badly injured in a mine
                          > disaster and was writing home to describe it.
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Helen Fedor
                          > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars
                          > please help.
                          >
                          >
                          > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
                          >
                          > H
                          >
                          > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                          > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the
                          > no-motor? A real mule?
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: ssultonia
                          > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                          > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please
                          > help.
                          >
                          > In some mining areas I think they continued to
                          > call the motorized
                          > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put
                          > out to pasture.
                          > Bill
                          >
                          > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor"
                          > <hfed@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                          > http://images.google.com/imgres?
                          >
                          >
                          imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                          >
                          >
                          jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                          >
                          >
                          h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                          >
                          >
                          0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                          > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                          > >
                          > > H
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                          > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph
                          > or drawing of
                          > one.
                          > >
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: David
                          > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                          > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars
                          > please help.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars
                          > into the mine.
                          > It is
                          > > called a "mine motor."
                          > > Dave
                          > >
                          > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                          > >
                          > > >This is what happens when languages come in
                          > contact,
                          > specifically
                          > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my
                          > own family, we
                          > were
                          > > >almost shameless about it. English words were
                          > taken into Slovak
                          > and
                          > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                          > > >
                          > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of
                          > NOMODOR, which is
                          > how
                          > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't
                          > know anything
                          > about
                          > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece
                          > of equipment
                          > (like a
                          > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even
                          > informally? He
                          > says
                          > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't
                          > remember, even
                          > when
                          > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with
                          > vehicles) him out of
                          > the mine.
                          > > >
                          > > >I hope this helps,
                          > > >H
                          > > >
                          > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06
                          > 4:15 PM >>>
                          > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line
                          > from his
                          > relative who
                          > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is
                          > interesting from a
                          > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a
                          > man aged 32 when
                          > he
                          > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but
                          > he quickly
                          > adopted a
                          > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and
                          > used them in his
                          > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes
                          > translation
                          > difficult.
                          > > >
                          > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I
                          > have in large
                          > caps.
                          > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized
                          > English word. The
                          > second
                          > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                          > > >
                          > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja
                          > som o tom
                          > nevedel, ked
                          > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine
                          > ... resp. out of
                          > the mine )
                          > > >
                          > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
                          > removed]
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          > removed]
                          > >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          > removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          > removed]
                          >
                          >

                          __________________________________________________________
                          Have a burning question?
                          Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Andrea Vangor
                          I d love to post it but Yahoo! seems to have forgotten who I am. I ll have to re-register, unless someone wants to post it for me. ... From: Helen Fedor To:
                          Message 12 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I'd love to post it but Yahoo! seems to have forgotten who I am. I'll have to re-register, unless someone wants to post it for me.

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Helen Fedor
                            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:34 AM
                            Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                            Please post it for all to see. "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

                            H

                            >>> drav@... 12/06/06 9:18 AM >>>
                            Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Martin Votruba
                            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
                            Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.

                            >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                            > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                            I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                            is na motori "on the motor."

                            Martin

                            votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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