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Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.

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  • Andrea Vangor
    Thanks, Helen -- that s quite a web site. I sent it to Mario. What did we think a no-motor would be -- perhaps something drawn by mules? ... From: Helen
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Thanks, Helen -- that's quite a web site. I sent it to Mario. What did we think a "no-motor" would be -- perhaps something drawn by mules?


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Helen Fedor
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 5:32 AM
      Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.


      Here's an old photo I found on Google images: < http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_en >.

      H

      >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
      That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of one.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: David
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
      Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.

      Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine. It is
      called a "mine motor."
      Dave

      At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:

      >This is what happens when languages come in contact, specifically
      >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we were
      >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak and
      >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
      >
      >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is how
      >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything about
      >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment (like a
      >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He says
      >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even when
      >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of the mine.
      >
      >I hope this helps,
      >H
      >
      > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
      >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his relative who
      >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
      >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when he
      >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly adopted a
      >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
      >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation difficult.
      >
      >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large caps.
      >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The second
      >word in caps is a good example of this.
      >
      >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom nevedel, ked
      >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of the mine )
      >
      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Andrea Vangor
      Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule? ... From: ssultonia To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule?


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: ssultonia
        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
        Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


        In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
        car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
        Bill

        --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
        >
        > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
        http://images.google.com/imgres?
        imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
        jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
        h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
        0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
        26lr%3Dlang_en >.
        >
        > H
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
        > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
        one.
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: David
        > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
        > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
        It is
        > called a "mine motor."
        > Dave
        >
        > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
        >
        > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
        specifically
        > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
        were
        > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
        and
        > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
        > >
        > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
        how
        > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
        about
        > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
        (like a
        > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
        says
        > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
        when
        > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
        the mine.
        > >
        > >I hope this helps,
        > >H
        > >
        > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
        > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
        relative who
        > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
        > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
        he
        > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
        adopted a
        > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
        > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
        difficult.
        > >
        > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
        caps.
        > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
        second
        > >word in caps is a good example of this.
        > >
        > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
        nevedel, ked
        > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
        the mine )
        > >
        > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Helen Fedor
        Quite possibly. H ... Thanks, Helen -- that s quite a web site. I sent it to Mario. What did we think a no-motor would be -- perhaps something drawn by
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Quite possibly.

          H



          >>> drav@... 12/05/06 2:47 PM >>>
          Thanks, Helen -- that's quite a web site. I sent it to Mario. What did we think a "no-motor" would be -- perhaps something drawn by mules?


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Helen Fedor
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 5:32 AM
          Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.


          Here's an old photo I found on Google images: < http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_en >.

          H

          >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
          That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of one.

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: David
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
          Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.

          Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine. It is
          called a "mine motor."
          Dave

          At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:

          >This is what happens when languages come in contact, specifically
          >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we were
          >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak and
          >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
          >
          >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is how
          >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything about
          >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment (like a
          >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He says
          >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even when
          >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of the mine.
          >
          >I hope this helps,
          >H
          >
          > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
          >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his relative who
          >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
          >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when he
          >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly adopted a
          >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
          >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation difficult.
          >
          >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large caps.
          >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The second
          >word in caps is a good example of this.
          >
          >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom nevedel, ked
          >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of the mine )
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Helen Fedor
          Or a cart hitched up to a mule. H ... Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule? ... From: ssultonia To:
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Or a cart hitched up to a mule.

            H



            >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
            Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule?


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: ssultonia
            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
            Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


            In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
            car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
            Bill

            --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
            >
            > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
            http://images.google.com/imgres?
            imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
            jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
            h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
            0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
            26lr%3Dlang_en >.
            >
            > H
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
            > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
            one.
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: David
            > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
            > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
            >
            >
            >
            > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
            It is
            > called a "mine motor."
            > Dave
            >
            > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
            >
            > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
            specifically
            > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
            were
            > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
            and
            > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
            > >
            > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
            how
            > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
            about
            > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
            (like a
            > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
            says
            > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
            when
            > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
            the mine.
            > >
            > >I hope this helps,
            > >H
            > >
            > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
            > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
            relative who
            > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
            > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
            he
            > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
            adopted a
            > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
            > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
            difficult.
            > >
            > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
            caps.
            > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
            second
            > >word in caps is a good example of this.
            > >
            > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
            nevedel, ked
            > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
            the mine )
            > >
            > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Andrea Vangor
            What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker Slov-English. No-motor does suggest a cart drawn by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the context. His
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the context. His relative was badly injured in a mine disaster and was writing home to describe it.


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Helen Fedor
              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
              Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


              Or a cart hitched up to a mule.

              H

              >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
              Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule?

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: ssultonia
              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
              Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.

              In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
              car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
              Bill

              --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
              >
              > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
              http://images.google.com/imgres?
              imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
              jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
              h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
              0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
              26lr%3Dlang_en >.
              >
              > H
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
              > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
              one.
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: David
              > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
              > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
              It is
              > called a "mine motor."
              > Dave
              >
              > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
              >
              > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
              specifically
              > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
              were
              > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
              and
              > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
              > >
              > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
              how
              > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
              about
              > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
              (like a
              > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
              says
              > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
              when
              > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
              the mine.
              > >
              > >I hope this helps,
              > >H
              > >
              > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
              > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
              relative who
              > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
              > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
              he
              > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
              adopted a
              > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
              > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
              difficult.
              > >
              > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
              caps.
              > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
              second
              > >word in caps is a good example of this.
              > >
              > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
              nevedel, ked
              > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
              the mine )
              > >
              > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • ssultonia
              Geez. It was slang used by Slovak miners,Italian miners, Irish miners, American miners - nothing more, nothing less. Bill ... mule?
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Geez. It was slang used by Slovak miners,Italian miners, Irish
                miners, American miners - nothing more, nothing less.
                Bill


                --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
                >
                > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
                >
                > H
                >
                >
                >
                > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real
                mule?
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: ssultonia
                > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.
                >
                >
                > In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
                > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
                > Bill
                >
                > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                > http://images.google.com/imgres?
                > imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                > jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                > h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                > 0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                > >
                > > H
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > >>> drav@ 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
                > one.
                > >
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: David
                > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
                > It is
                > > called a "mine motor."
                > > Dave
                > >
                > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                > >
                > > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
                > specifically
                > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
                > were
                > > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
                > and
                > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                > > >
                > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
                > how
                > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
                > about
                > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
                > (like a
                > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
                > says
                > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
                > when
                > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
                > the mine.
                > > >
                > > >I hope this helps,
                > > >H
                > > >
                > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@ 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
                > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
                > relative who
                > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
                > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
                > he
                > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
                > adopted a
                > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
                > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
                > difficult.
                > > >
                > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
                > caps.
                > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
                > second
                > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                > > >
                > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                > nevedel, ked
                > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
                > the mine )
                > > >
                > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Martin Votruba
                ... I d say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny from the mine, _nomodri_ is na motori on the motor. Martin votruba at pitt dot edu
                Message 7 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                  > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                  I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                  is na motori "on the motor."


                  Martin

                  votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                • Andrea Vangor
                  Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.
                  Message 8 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
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                    Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Martin Votruba
                    To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
                    Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                    >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                    > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                    I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                    is na motori "on the motor."

                    Martin

                    votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Helen Fedor
                    Please post it for all to see. O s and a s can look very much alike in handwriting. H ... Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you
                    Message 9 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
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                      Please post it for all to see. "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

                      H


                      >>> drav@... 12/06/06 9:18 AM >>>
                      Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Martin Votruba
                      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
                      Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                      >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                      > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                      I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                      is na motori "on the motor."

                      Martin

                      votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Caye Caswick
                      There is a clever one (although it doesn t specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like Coal Speak -- if you Google coal speak I m sure you ll find
                      Message 10 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
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                        There is a clever one (although it doesn't
                        specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like
                        Coal Speak -- if you Google "coal speak" I'm sure
                        you'll find it -- it has a "dictionary" of
                        pronounciation and definitions (very clever) -- also
                        some excellent sleighing routes (using various fun
                        things you can find around the home/yard as vehicles)
                        -- check it out for fun.



                        Caye



                        --- Andrea Vangor <drav@...> wrote:

                        > What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker
                        > Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn
                        > by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the
                        > context. His relative was badly injured in a mine
                        > disaster and was writing home to describe it.
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: Helen Fedor
                        > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars
                        > please help.
                        >
                        >
                        > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
                        >
                        > H
                        >
                        > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                        > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the
                        > no-motor? A real mule?
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: ssultonia
                        > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                        > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please
                        > help.
                        >
                        > In some mining areas I think they continued to
                        > call the motorized
                        > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put
                        > out to pasture.
                        > Bill
                        >
                        > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor"
                        > <hfed@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                        > http://images.google.com/imgres?
                        >
                        >
                        imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                        >
                        >
                        jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                        >
                        >
                        h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                        >
                        >
                        0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                        > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                        > >
                        > > H
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                        > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph
                        > or drawing of
                        > one.
                        > >
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: David
                        > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                        > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars
                        > please help.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars
                        > into the mine.
                        > It is
                        > > called a "mine motor."
                        > > Dave
                        > >
                        > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                        > >
                        > > >This is what happens when languages come in
                        > contact,
                        > specifically
                        > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my
                        > own family, we
                        > were
                        > > >almost shameless about it. English words were
                        > taken into Slovak
                        > and
                        > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                        > > >
                        > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of
                        > NOMODOR, which is
                        > how
                        > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't
                        > know anything
                        > about
                        > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece
                        > of equipment
                        > (like a
                        > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even
                        > informally? He
                        > says
                        > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't
                        > remember, even
                        > when
                        > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with
                        > vehicles) him out of
                        > the mine.
                        > > >
                        > > >I hope this helps,
                        > > >H
                        > > >
                        > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06
                        > 4:15 PM >>>
                        > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line
                        > from his
                        > relative who
                        > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is
                        > interesting from a
                        > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a
                        > man aged 32 when
                        > he
                        > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but
                        > he quickly
                        > adopted a
                        > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and
                        > used them in his
                        > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes
                        > translation
                        > difficult.
                        > > >
                        > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I
                        > have in large
                        > caps.
                        > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized
                        > English word. The
                        > second
                        > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                        > > >
                        > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja
                        > som o tom
                        > nevedel, ked
                        > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine
                        > ... resp. out of
                        > the mine )
                        > > >
                        > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
                        > removed]
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                        > removed]
                        > >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                        > removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                        > removed]
                        >
                        >




                        ____________________________________________________________________________________
                        Have a burning question?
                        Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.
                      • Martin Votruba
                        ... I agree, Helen. I m not basing my guess on handwriting, Andrea. My guess was not based on whether it s _no-_ or _na-_, it ll remain the same regardless
                        Message 11 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
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                          > "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

                          I agree, Helen. I'm not basing my guess on handwriting, Andrea. My
                          guess was not based on whether it's _no-_ or _na-_, it'll remain the
                          same regardless of which of the two it is.

                          It was not unusual for the Slovak-Americans to transcribe the Slovak
                          [a] with the letter _o_. The American [o] in _not_, for example_,
                          sounds like a transcription of the Slovak sound [a] to the Slovaks so
                          it's not surprising that those more familiar with the English
                          spelling, or not particularly good at spelling in either of the two
                          languages, sometimes transcribed a Slovak word with an [a] with the
                          letter _o_ in English.

                          The reading _na motori_ both matches the use of the preposition _z_
                          used in the preceding phrase _z majny_, and explains why the final
                          sound is [i]: it is the case ending required by the preposition _na_
                          in this construction, "I was unconscious (literally 'didn't know about
                          that') when they pulled (literally: 'drove out/gave a ride out') me on
                          a motor out of the mine."

                          tanier - na tanieri
                          majer - na majeri, etc.


                          Martin

                          votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                        • Andrea Vangor
                          Yes, I have seen it and it is really funny. An under-appreciated corner of our culture. ... From: Caye Caswick To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                          Message 12 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Yes, I have seen it and it is really funny. An under-appreciated corner of our culture.


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Caye Caswick
                            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:46 AM
                            Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.



                            There is a clever one (although it doesn't
                            specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like
                            Coal Speak -- if you Google "coal speak" I'm sure
                            you'll find it -- it has a "dictionary" of
                            pronounciation and definitions (very clever) -- also
                            some excellent sleighing routes (using various fun
                            things you can find around the home/yard as vehicles)
                            -- check it out for fun.

                            Caye

                            --- Andrea Vangor <drav@...> wrote:

                            > What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker
                            > Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn
                            > by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the
                            > context. His relative was badly injured in a mine
                            > disaster and was writing home to describe it.
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: Helen Fedor
                            > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars
                            > please help.
                            >
                            >
                            > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
                            >
                            > H
                            >
                            > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                            > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the
                            > no-motor? A real mule?
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: ssultonia
                            > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                            > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please
                            > help.
                            >
                            > In some mining areas I think they continued to
                            > call the motorized
                            > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put
                            > out to pasture.
                            > Bill
                            >
                            > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor"
                            > <hfed@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                            > http://images.google.com/imgres?
                            >
                            >
                            imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                            >
                            >
                            jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                            >
                            >
                            h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                            >
                            >
                            0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                            > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                            > >
                            > > H
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                            > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph
                            > or drawing of
                            > one.
                            > >
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: David
                            > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                            > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars
                            > please help.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars
                            > into the mine.
                            > It is
                            > > called a "mine motor."
                            > > Dave
                            > >
                            > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                            > >
                            > > >This is what happens when languages come in
                            > contact,
                            > specifically
                            > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my
                            > own family, we
                            > were
                            > > >almost shameless about it. English words were
                            > taken into Slovak
                            > and
                            > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                            > > >
                            > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of
                            > NOMODOR, which is
                            > how
                            > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't
                            > know anything
                            > about
                            > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece
                            > of equipment
                            > (like a
                            > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even
                            > informally? He
                            > says
                            > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't
                            > remember, even
                            > when
                            > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with
                            > vehicles) him out of
                            > the mine.
                            > > >
                            > > >I hope this helps,
                            > > >H
                            > > >
                            > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06
                            > 4:15 PM >>>
                            > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line
                            > from his
                            > relative who
                            > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is
                            > interesting from a
                            > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a
                            > man aged 32 when
                            > he
                            > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but
                            > he quickly
                            > adopted a
                            > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and
                            > used them in his
                            > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes
                            > translation
                            > difficult.
                            > > >
                            > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I
                            > have in large
                            > caps.
                            > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized
                            > English word. The
                            > second
                            > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                            > > >
                            > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja
                            > som o tom
                            > nevedel, ked
                            > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine
                            > ... resp. out of
                            > the mine )
                            > > >
                            > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
                            > removed]
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            > removed]
                            > >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            > removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            > removed]
                            >
                            >

                            __________________________________________________________
                            Have a burning question?
                            Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Andrea Vangor
                            I d love to post it but Yahoo! seems to have forgotten who I am. I ll have to re-register, unless someone wants to post it for me. ... From: Helen Fedor To:
                            Message 13 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I'd love to post it but Yahoo! seems to have forgotten who I am. I'll have to re-register, unless someone wants to post it for me.

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Helen Fedor
                              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:34 AM
                              Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                              Please post it for all to see. "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

                              H

                              >>> drav@... 12/06/06 9:18 AM >>>
                              Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Martin Votruba
                              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
                              Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.

                              >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                              > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                              I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                              is na motori "on the motor."

                              Martin

                              votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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