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Re: Slovak scholars please help.

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  • ssultonia
    In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized car a mule even after the real mules were put out to pasture. Bill ...
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
      car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
      Bill



      --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
      >
      > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
      http://images.google.com/imgres?
      imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
      jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
      h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
      0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
      26lr%3Dlang_en >.
      >
      > H
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
      > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
      one.
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: David
      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
      > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
      It is
      > called a "mine motor."
      > Dave
      >
      > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
      >
      > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
      specifically
      > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
      were
      > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
      and
      > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
      > >
      > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
      how
      > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
      about
      > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
      (like a
      > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
      says
      > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
      when
      > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
      the mine.
      > >
      > >I hope this helps,
      > >H
      > >
      > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
      > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
      relative who
      > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
      > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
      he
      > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
      adopted a
      > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
      > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
      difficult.
      > >
      > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
      caps.
      > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
      second
      > >word in caps is a good example of this.
      > >
      > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
      nevedel, ked
      > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
      the mine )
      > >
      > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Andrea Vangor
      Thanks, Helen -- that s quite a web site. I sent it to Mario. What did we think a no-motor would be -- perhaps something drawn by mules? ... From: Helen
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Thanks, Helen -- that's quite a web site. I sent it to Mario. What did we think a "no-motor" would be -- perhaps something drawn by mules?


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Helen Fedor
        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 5:32 AM
        Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.


        Here's an old photo I found on Google images: < http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_en >.

        H

        >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
        That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of one.

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: David
        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
        Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.

        Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine. It is
        called a "mine motor."
        Dave

        At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:

        >This is what happens when languages come in contact, specifically
        >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we were
        >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak and
        >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
        >
        >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is how
        >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything about
        >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment (like a
        >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He says
        >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even when
        >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of the mine.
        >
        >I hope this helps,
        >H
        >
        > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
        >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his relative who
        >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
        >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when he
        >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly adopted a
        >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
        >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation difficult.
        >
        >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large caps.
        >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The second
        >word in caps is a good example of this.
        >
        >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom nevedel, ked
        >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of the mine )
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Andrea Vangor
        Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule? ... From: ssultonia To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule?


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: ssultonia
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
          Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


          In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
          car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
          Bill

          --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
          >
          > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
          http://images.google.com/imgres?
          imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
          jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
          h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
          0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
          26lr%3Dlang_en >.
          >
          > H
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
          > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
          one.
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: David
          > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
          > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
          >
          >
          >
          > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
          It is
          > called a "mine motor."
          > Dave
          >
          > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
          >
          > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
          specifically
          > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
          were
          > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
          and
          > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
          > >
          > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
          how
          > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
          about
          > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
          (like a
          > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
          says
          > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
          when
          > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
          the mine.
          > >
          > >I hope this helps,
          > >H
          > >
          > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
          > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
          relative who
          > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
          > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
          he
          > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
          adopted a
          > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
          > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
          difficult.
          > >
          > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
          caps.
          > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
          second
          > >word in caps is a good example of this.
          > >
          > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
          nevedel, ked
          > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
          the mine )
          > >
          > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Helen Fedor
          Quite possibly. H ... Thanks, Helen -- that s quite a web site. I sent it to Mario. What did we think a no-motor would be -- perhaps something drawn by
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Quite possibly.

            H



            >>> drav@... 12/05/06 2:47 PM >>>
            Thanks, Helen -- that's quite a web site. I sent it to Mario. What did we think a "no-motor" would be -- perhaps something drawn by mules?


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Helen Fedor
            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 5:32 AM
            Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.


            Here's an old photo I found on Google images: < http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_en >.

            H

            >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
            That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of one.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: David
            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
            Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.

            Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine. It is
            called a "mine motor."
            Dave

            At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:

            >This is what happens when languages come in contact, specifically
            >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we were
            >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak and
            >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
            >
            >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is how
            >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything about
            >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment (like a
            >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He says
            >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even when
            >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of the mine.
            >
            >I hope this helps,
            >H
            >
            > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
            >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his relative who
            >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
            >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when he
            >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly adopted a
            >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
            >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation difficult.
            >
            >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large caps.
            >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The second
            >word in caps is a good example of this.
            >
            >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom nevedel, ked
            >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of the mine )
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Helen Fedor
            Or a cart hitched up to a mule. H ... Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule? ... From: ssultonia To:
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Or a cart hitched up to a mule.

              H



              >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
              Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule?


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: ssultonia
              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
              Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


              In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
              car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
              Bill

              --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
              >
              > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
              http://images.google.com/imgres?
              imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
              jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
              h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
              0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
              26lr%3Dlang_en >.
              >
              > H
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
              > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
              one.
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: David
              > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
              > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
              It is
              > called a "mine motor."
              > Dave
              >
              > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
              >
              > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
              specifically
              > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
              were
              > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
              and
              > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
              > >
              > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
              how
              > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
              about
              > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
              (like a
              > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
              says
              > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
              when
              > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
              the mine.
              > >
              > >I hope this helps,
              > >H
              > >
              > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
              > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
              relative who
              > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
              > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
              he
              > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
              adopted a
              > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
              > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
              difficult.
              > >
              > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
              caps.
              > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
              second
              > >word in caps is a good example of this.
              > >
              > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
              nevedel, ked
              > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
              the mine )
              > >
              > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Andrea Vangor
              What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker Slov-English. No-motor does suggest a cart drawn by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the context. His
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the context. His relative was badly injured in a mine disaster and was writing home to describe it.


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Helen Fedor
                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                Or a cart hitched up to a mule.

                H

                >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule?

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: ssultonia
                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.

                In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
                car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
                Bill

                --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
                >
                > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                http://images.google.com/imgres?
                imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                >
                > H
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
                one.
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: David
                > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
                >
                >
                >
                > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
                It is
                > called a "mine motor."
                > Dave
                >
                > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                >
                > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
                specifically
                > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
                were
                > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
                and
                > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                > >
                > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
                how
                > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
                about
                > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
                (like a
                > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
                says
                > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
                when
                > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
                the mine.
                > >
                > >I hope this helps,
                > >H
                > >
                > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
                > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
                relative who
                > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
                > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
                he
                > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
                adopted a
                > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
                > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
                difficult.
                > >
                > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
                caps.
                > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
                second
                > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                > >
                > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                nevedel, ked
                > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
                the mine )
                > >
                > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • ssultonia
                Geez. It was slang used by Slovak miners,Italian miners, Irish miners, American miners - nothing more, nothing less. Bill ... mule?
                Message 7 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Geez. It was slang used by Slovak miners,Italian miners, Irish
                  miners, American miners - nothing more, nothing less.
                  Bill


                  --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
                  >
                  > H
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                  > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real
                  mule?
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: ssultonia
                  > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                  > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.
                  >
                  >
                  > In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
                  > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
                  > Bill
                  >
                  > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                  > http://images.google.com/imgres?
                  > imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                  > jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                  > h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                  > 0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                  > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                  > >
                  > > H
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > >>> drav@ 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                  > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
                  > one.
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: David
                  > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                  > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
                  > It is
                  > > called a "mine motor."
                  > > Dave
                  > >
                  > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                  > >
                  > > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
                  > specifically
                  > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
                  > were
                  > > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
                  > and
                  > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                  > > >
                  > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
                  > how
                  > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
                  > about
                  > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
                  > (like a
                  > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
                  > says
                  > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
                  > when
                  > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
                  > the mine.
                  > > >
                  > > >I hope this helps,
                  > > >H
                  > > >
                  > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@ 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
                  > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
                  > relative who
                  > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
                  > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
                  > he
                  > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
                  > adopted a
                  > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
                  > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
                  > difficult.
                  > > >
                  > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
                  > caps.
                  > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
                  > second
                  > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                  > > >
                  > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                  > nevedel, ked
                  > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
                  > the mine )
                  > > >
                  > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Martin Votruba
                  ... I d say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny from the mine, _nomodri_ is na motori on the motor. Martin votruba at pitt dot edu
                  Message 8 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                    > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                    I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                    is na motori "on the motor."


                    Martin

                    votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                  • Andrea Vangor
                    Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.
                    Message 9 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Martin Votruba
                      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
                      Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                      >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                      > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                      I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                      is na motori "on the motor."

                      Martin

                      votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Helen Fedor
                      Please post it for all to see. O s and a s can look very much alike in handwriting. H ... Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you
                      Message 10 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Please post it for all to see. "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

                        H


                        >>> drav@... 12/06/06 9:18 AM >>>
                        Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Martin Votruba
                        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
                        Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                        >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                        > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                        I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                        is na motori "on the motor."

                        Martin

                        votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Caye Caswick
                        There is a clever one (although it doesn t specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like Coal Speak -- if you Google coal speak I m sure you ll find
                        Message 11 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          There is a clever one (although it doesn't
                          specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like
                          Coal Speak -- if you Google "coal speak" I'm sure
                          you'll find it -- it has a "dictionary" of
                          pronounciation and definitions (very clever) -- also
                          some excellent sleighing routes (using various fun
                          things you can find around the home/yard as vehicles)
                          -- check it out for fun.



                          Caye



                          --- Andrea Vangor <drav@...> wrote:

                          > What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker
                          > Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn
                          > by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the
                          > context. His relative was badly injured in a mine
                          > disaster and was writing home to describe it.
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Helen Fedor
                          > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars
                          > please help.
                          >
                          >
                          > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
                          >
                          > H
                          >
                          > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                          > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the
                          > no-motor? A real mule?
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: ssultonia
                          > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                          > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please
                          > help.
                          >
                          > In some mining areas I think they continued to
                          > call the motorized
                          > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put
                          > out to pasture.
                          > Bill
                          >
                          > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor"
                          > <hfed@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                          > http://images.google.com/imgres?
                          >
                          >
                          imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                          >
                          >
                          jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                          >
                          >
                          h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                          >
                          >
                          0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                          > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                          > >
                          > > H
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                          > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph
                          > or drawing of
                          > one.
                          > >
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: David
                          > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                          > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars
                          > please help.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars
                          > into the mine.
                          > It is
                          > > called a "mine motor."
                          > > Dave
                          > >
                          > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                          > >
                          > > >This is what happens when languages come in
                          > contact,
                          > specifically
                          > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my
                          > own family, we
                          > were
                          > > >almost shameless about it. English words were
                          > taken into Slovak
                          > and
                          > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                          > > >
                          > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of
                          > NOMODOR, which is
                          > how
                          > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't
                          > know anything
                          > about
                          > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece
                          > of equipment
                          > (like a
                          > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even
                          > informally? He
                          > says
                          > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't
                          > remember, even
                          > when
                          > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with
                          > vehicles) him out of
                          > the mine.
                          > > >
                          > > >I hope this helps,
                          > > >H
                          > > >
                          > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06
                          > 4:15 PM >>>
                          > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line
                          > from his
                          > relative who
                          > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is
                          > interesting from a
                          > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a
                          > man aged 32 when
                          > he
                          > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but
                          > he quickly
                          > adopted a
                          > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and
                          > used them in his
                          > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes
                          > translation
                          > difficult.
                          > > >
                          > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I
                          > have in large
                          > caps.
                          > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized
                          > English word. The
                          > second
                          > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                          > > >
                          > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja
                          > som o tom
                          > nevedel, ked
                          > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine
                          > ... resp. out of
                          > the mine )
                          > > >
                          > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
                          > removed]
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          > removed]
                          > >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          > removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          > removed]
                          >
                          >




                          ____________________________________________________________________________________
                          Have a burning question?
                          Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.
                        • Martin Votruba
                          ... I agree, Helen. I m not basing my guess on handwriting, Andrea. My guess was not based on whether it s _no-_ or _na-_, it ll remain the same regardless
                          Message 12 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            > "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

                            I agree, Helen. I'm not basing my guess on handwriting, Andrea. My
                            guess was not based on whether it's _no-_ or _na-_, it'll remain the
                            same regardless of which of the two it is.

                            It was not unusual for the Slovak-Americans to transcribe the Slovak
                            [a] with the letter _o_. The American [o] in _not_, for example_,
                            sounds like a transcription of the Slovak sound [a] to the Slovaks so
                            it's not surprising that those more familiar with the English
                            spelling, or not particularly good at spelling in either of the two
                            languages, sometimes transcribed a Slovak word with an [a] with the
                            letter _o_ in English.

                            The reading _na motori_ both matches the use of the preposition _z_
                            used in the preceding phrase _z majny_, and explains why the final
                            sound is [i]: it is the case ending required by the preposition _na_
                            in this construction, "I was unconscious (literally 'didn't know about
                            that') when they pulled (literally: 'drove out/gave a ride out') me on
                            a motor out of the mine."

                            tanier - na tanieri
                            majer - na majeri, etc.


                            Martin

                            votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                          • Andrea Vangor
                            Yes, I have seen it and it is really funny. An under-appreciated corner of our culture. ... From: Caye Caswick To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                            Message 13 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Yes, I have seen it and it is really funny. An under-appreciated corner of our culture.


                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Caye Caswick
                              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:46 AM
                              Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.



                              There is a clever one (although it doesn't
                              specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like
                              Coal Speak -- if you Google "coal speak" I'm sure
                              you'll find it -- it has a "dictionary" of
                              pronounciation and definitions (very clever) -- also
                              some excellent sleighing routes (using various fun
                              things you can find around the home/yard as vehicles)
                              -- check it out for fun.

                              Caye

                              --- Andrea Vangor <drav@...> wrote:

                              > What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker
                              > Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn
                              > by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the
                              > context. His relative was badly injured in a mine
                              > disaster and was writing home to describe it.
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: Helen Fedor
                              > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars
                              > please help.
                              >
                              >
                              > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
                              >
                              > H
                              >
                              > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                              > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the
                              > no-motor? A real mule?
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: ssultonia
                              > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                              > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please
                              > help.
                              >
                              > In some mining areas I think they continued to
                              > call the motorized
                              > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put
                              > out to pasture.
                              > Bill
                              >
                              > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor"
                              > <hfed@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                              > http://images.google.com/imgres?
                              >
                              >
                              imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                              >
                              >
                              jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                              >
                              >
                              h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                              >
                              >
                              0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                              > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                              > >
                              > > H
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                              > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph
                              > or drawing of
                              > one.
                              > >
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > From: David
                              > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                              > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars
                              > please help.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars
                              > into the mine.
                              > It is
                              > > called a "mine motor."
                              > > Dave
                              > >
                              > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                              > >
                              > > >This is what happens when languages come in
                              > contact,
                              > specifically
                              > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my
                              > own family, we
                              > were
                              > > >almost shameless about it. English words were
                              > taken into Slovak
                              > and
                              > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                              > > >
                              > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of
                              > NOMODOR, which is
                              > how
                              > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't
                              > know anything
                              > about
                              > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece
                              > of equipment
                              > (like a
                              > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even
                              > informally? He
                              > says
                              > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't
                              > remember, even
                              > when
                              > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with
                              > vehicles) him out of
                              > the mine.
                              > > >
                              > > >I hope this helps,
                              > > >H
                              > > >
                              > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06
                              > 4:15 PM >>>
                              > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line
                              > from his
                              > relative who
                              > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is
                              > interesting from a
                              > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a
                              > man aged 32 when
                              > he
                              > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but
                              > he quickly
                              > adopted a
                              > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and
                              > used them in his
                              > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes
                              > translation
                              > difficult.
                              > > >
                              > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I
                              > have in large
                              > caps.
                              > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized
                              > English word. The
                              > second
                              > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                              > > >
                              > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja
                              > som o tom
                              > nevedel, ked
                              > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine
                              > ... resp. out of
                              > the mine )
                              > > >
                              > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > removed]
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > removed]
                              >
                              >

                              __________________________________________________________
                              Have a burning question?
                              Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Andrea Vangor
                              I d love to post it but Yahoo! seems to have forgotten who I am. I ll have to re-register, unless someone wants to post it for me. ... From: Helen Fedor To:
                              Message 14 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I'd love to post it but Yahoo! seems to have forgotten who I am. I'll have to re-register, unless someone wants to post it for me.

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Helen Fedor
                                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:34 AM
                                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                                Please post it for all to see. "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

                                H

                                >>> drav@... 12/06/06 9:18 AM >>>
                                Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Martin Votruba
                                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
                                Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.

                                >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                                > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                                I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                                is na motori "on the motor."

                                Martin

                                votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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