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Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.

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  • Helen Fedor
    Here s an old photo I found on Google images:
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Here's an old photo I found on Google images: < http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_en >.

      H




      >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
      That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of one.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: David
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
      Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.



      Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine. It is
      called a "mine motor."
      Dave

      At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:

      >This is what happens when languages come in contact, specifically
      >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we were
      >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak and
      >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
      >
      >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is how
      >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything about
      >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment (like a
      >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He says
      >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even when
      >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of the mine.
      >
      >I hope this helps,
      >H
      >
      > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
      >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his relative who
      >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
      >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when he
      >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly adopted a
      >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
      >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation difficult.
      >
      >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large caps.
      >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The second
      >word in caps is a good example of this.
      >
      >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom nevedel, ked
      >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of the mine )
      >
      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • ssultonia
      In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized car a mule even after the real mules were put out to pasture. Bill ...
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
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        In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
        car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
        Bill



        --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
        >
        > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
        http://images.google.com/imgres?
        imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
        jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
        h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
        0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
        26lr%3Dlang_en >.
        >
        > H
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
        > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
        one.
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: David
        > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
        > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
        It is
        > called a "mine motor."
        > Dave
        >
        > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
        >
        > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
        specifically
        > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
        were
        > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
        and
        > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
        > >
        > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
        how
        > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
        about
        > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
        (like a
        > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
        says
        > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
        when
        > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
        the mine.
        > >
        > >I hope this helps,
        > >H
        > >
        > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
        > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
        relative who
        > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
        > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
        he
        > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
        adopted a
        > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
        > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
        difficult.
        > >
        > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
        caps.
        > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
        second
        > >word in caps is a good example of this.
        > >
        > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
        nevedel, ked
        > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
        the mine )
        > >
        > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Andrea Vangor
        Thanks, Helen -- that s quite a web site. I sent it to Mario. What did we think a no-motor would be -- perhaps something drawn by mules? ... From: Helen
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks, Helen -- that's quite a web site. I sent it to Mario. What did we think a "no-motor" would be -- perhaps something drawn by mules?


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Helen Fedor
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 5:32 AM
          Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.


          Here's an old photo I found on Google images: < http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_en >.

          H

          >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
          That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of one.

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: David
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
          Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.

          Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine. It is
          called a "mine motor."
          Dave

          At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:

          >This is what happens when languages come in contact, specifically
          >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we were
          >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak and
          >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
          >
          >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is how
          >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything about
          >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment (like a
          >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He says
          >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even when
          >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of the mine.
          >
          >I hope this helps,
          >H
          >
          > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
          >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his relative who
          >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
          >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when he
          >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly adopted a
          >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
          >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation difficult.
          >
          >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large caps.
          >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The second
          >word in caps is a good example of this.
          >
          >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom nevedel, ked
          >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of the mine )
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Andrea Vangor
          Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule? ... From: ssultonia To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule?


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: ssultonia
            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
            Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


            In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
            car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
            Bill

            --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
            >
            > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
            http://images.google.com/imgres?
            imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
            jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
            h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
            0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
            26lr%3Dlang_en >.
            >
            > H
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
            > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
            one.
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: David
            > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
            > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
            >
            >
            >
            > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
            It is
            > called a "mine motor."
            > Dave
            >
            > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
            >
            > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
            specifically
            > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
            were
            > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
            and
            > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
            > >
            > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
            how
            > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
            about
            > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
            (like a
            > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
            says
            > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
            when
            > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
            the mine.
            > >
            > >I hope this helps,
            > >H
            > >
            > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
            > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
            relative who
            > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
            > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
            he
            > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
            adopted a
            > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
            > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
            difficult.
            > >
            > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
            caps.
            > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
            second
            > >word in caps is a good example of this.
            > >
            > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
            nevedel, ked
            > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
            the mine )
            > >
            > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Helen Fedor
            Quite possibly. H ... Thanks, Helen -- that s quite a web site. I sent it to Mario. What did we think a no-motor would be -- perhaps something drawn by
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Quite possibly.

              H



              >>> drav@... 12/05/06 2:47 PM >>>
              Thanks, Helen -- that's quite a web site. I sent it to Mario. What did we think a "no-motor" would be -- perhaps something drawn by mules?


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Helen Fedor
              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 5:32 AM
              Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.


              Here's an old photo I found on Google images: < http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_en >.

              H

              >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
              That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of one.

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: David
              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
              Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.

              Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine. It is
              called a "mine motor."
              Dave

              At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:

              >This is what happens when languages come in contact, specifically
              >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we were
              >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak and
              >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
              >
              >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is how
              >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything about
              >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment (like a
              >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He says
              >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even when
              >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of the mine.
              >
              >I hope this helps,
              >H
              >
              > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
              >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his relative who
              >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
              >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when he
              >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly adopted a
              >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
              >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation difficult.
              >
              >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large caps.
              >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The second
              >word in caps is a good example of this.
              >
              >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom nevedel, ked
              >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of the mine )
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Helen Fedor
              Or a cart hitched up to a mule. H ... Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule? ... From: ssultonia To:
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Or a cart hitched up to a mule.

                H



                >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule?


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: ssultonia
                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
                car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
                Bill

                --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
                >
                > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                http://images.google.com/imgres?
                imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                >
                > H
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
                one.
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: David
                > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
                >
                >
                >
                > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
                It is
                > called a "mine motor."
                > Dave
                >
                > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                >
                > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
                specifically
                > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
                were
                > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
                and
                > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                > >
                > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
                how
                > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
                about
                > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
                (like a
                > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
                says
                > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
                when
                > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
                the mine.
                > >
                > >I hope this helps,
                > >H
                > >
                > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
                > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
                relative who
                > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
                > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
                he
                > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
                adopted a
                > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
                > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
                difficult.
                > >
                > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
                caps.
                > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
                second
                > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                > >
                > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                nevedel, ked
                > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
                the mine )
                > >
                > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Andrea Vangor
                What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker Slov-English. No-motor does suggest a cart drawn by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the context. His
                Message 7 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the context. His relative was badly injured in a mine disaster and was writing home to describe it.


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Helen Fedor
                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                  Or a cart hitched up to a mule.

                  H

                  >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                  Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule?

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: ssultonia
                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                  Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.

                  In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
                  car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
                  Bill

                  --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                  http://images.google.com/imgres?
                  imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                  jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                  h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                  0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                  26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                  >
                  > H
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                  > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
                  one.
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: David
                  > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
                  It is
                  > called a "mine motor."
                  > Dave
                  >
                  > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                  >
                  > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
                  specifically
                  > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
                  were
                  > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
                  and
                  > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                  > >
                  > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
                  how
                  > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
                  about
                  > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
                  (like a
                  > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
                  says
                  > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
                  when
                  > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
                  the mine.
                  > >
                  > >I hope this helps,
                  > >H
                  > >
                  > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
                  > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
                  relative who
                  > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
                  > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
                  he
                  > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
                  adopted a
                  > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
                  > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
                  difficult.
                  > >
                  > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
                  caps.
                  > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
                  second
                  > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                  > >
                  > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                  nevedel, ked
                  > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
                  the mine )
                  > >
                  > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • ssultonia
                  Geez. It was slang used by Slovak miners,Italian miners, Irish miners, American miners - nothing more, nothing less. Bill ... mule?
                  Message 8 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Geez. It was slang used by Slovak miners,Italian miners, Irish
                    miners, American miners - nothing more, nothing less.
                    Bill


                    --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
                    >
                    > H
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                    > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real
                    mule?
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: ssultonia
                    > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                    > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.
                    >
                    >
                    > In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
                    > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
                    > Bill
                    >
                    > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                    > http://images.google.com/imgres?
                    > imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                    > jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                    > h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                    > 0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                    > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                    > >
                    > > H
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > >>> drav@ 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                    > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
                    > one.
                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: David
                    > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                    > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
                    > It is
                    > > called a "mine motor."
                    > > Dave
                    > >
                    > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                    > >
                    > > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
                    > specifically
                    > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
                    > were
                    > > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
                    > and
                    > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                    > > >
                    > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
                    > how
                    > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
                    > about
                    > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
                    > (like a
                    > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
                    > says
                    > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
                    > when
                    > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
                    > the mine.
                    > > >
                    > > >I hope this helps,
                    > > >H
                    > > >
                    > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@ 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
                    > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
                    > relative who
                    > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
                    > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
                    > he
                    > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
                    > adopted a
                    > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
                    > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
                    > difficult.
                    > > >
                    > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
                    > caps.
                    > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
                    > second
                    > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                    > > >
                    > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                    > nevedel, ked
                    > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
                    > the mine )
                    > > >
                    > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Martin Votruba
                    ... I d say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny from the mine, _nomodri_ is na motori on the motor. Martin votruba at pitt dot edu
                    Message 9 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                      > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                      I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                      is na motori "on the motor."


                      Martin

                      votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                    • Andrea Vangor
                      Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.
                      Message 10 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Martin Votruba
                        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
                        Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                        >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                        > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                        I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                        is na motori "on the motor."

                        Martin

                        votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Helen Fedor
                        Please post it for all to see. O s and a s can look very much alike in handwriting. H ... Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you
                        Message 11 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Please post it for all to see. "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

                          H


                          >>> drav@... 12/06/06 9:18 AM >>>
                          Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Martin Votruba
                          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
                          Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                          >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                          > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                          I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                          is na motori "on the motor."

                          Martin

                          votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Caye Caswick
                          There is a clever one (although it doesn t specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like Coal Speak -- if you Google coal speak I m sure you ll find
                          Message 12 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            There is a clever one (although it doesn't
                            specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like
                            Coal Speak -- if you Google "coal speak" I'm sure
                            you'll find it -- it has a "dictionary" of
                            pronounciation and definitions (very clever) -- also
                            some excellent sleighing routes (using various fun
                            things you can find around the home/yard as vehicles)
                            -- check it out for fun.



                            Caye



                            --- Andrea Vangor <drav@...> wrote:

                            > What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker
                            > Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn
                            > by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the
                            > context. His relative was badly injured in a mine
                            > disaster and was writing home to describe it.
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: Helen Fedor
                            > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars
                            > please help.
                            >
                            >
                            > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
                            >
                            > H
                            >
                            > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                            > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the
                            > no-motor? A real mule?
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: ssultonia
                            > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                            > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please
                            > help.
                            >
                            > In some mining areas I think they continued to
                            > call the motorized
                            > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put
                            > out to pasture.
                            > Bill
                            >
                            > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor"
                            > <hfed@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                            > http://images.google.com/imgres?
                            >
                            >
                            imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                            >
                            >
                            jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                            >
                            >
                            h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                            >
                            >
                            0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                            > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                            > >
                            > > H
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                            > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph
                            > or drawing of
                            > one.
                            > >
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: David
                            > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                            > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars
                            > please help.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars
                            > into the mine.
                            > It is
                            > > called a "mine motor."
                            > > Dave
                            > >
                            > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                            > >
                            > > >This is what happens when languages come in
                            > contact,
                            > specifically
                            > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my
                            > own family, we
                            > were
                            > > >almost shameless about it. English words were
                            > taken into Slovak
                            > and
                            > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                            > > >
                            > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of
                            > NOMODOR, which is
                            > how
                            > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't
                            > know anything
                            > about
                            > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece
                            > of equipment
                            > (like a
                            > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even
                            > informally? He
                            > says
                            > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't
                            > remember, even
                            > when
                            > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with
                            > vehicles) him out of
                            > the mine.
                            > > >
                            > > >I hope this helps,
                            > > >H
                            > > >
                            > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06
                            > 4:15 PM >>>
                            > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line
                            > from his
                            > relative who
                            > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is
                            > interesting from a
                            > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a
                            > man aged 32 when
                            > he
                            > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but
                            > he quickly
                            > adopted a
                            > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and
                            > used them in his
                            > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes
                            > translation
                            > difficult.
                            > > >
                            > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I
                            > have in large
                            > caps.
                            > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized
                            > English word. The
                            > second
                            > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                            > > >
                            > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja
                            > som o tom
                            > nevedel, ked
                            > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine
                            > ... resp. out of
                            > the mine )
                            > > >
                            > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
                            > removed]
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            > removed]
                            > >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            > removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            > removed]
                            >
                            >




                            ____________________________________________________________________________________
                            Have a burning question?
                            Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.
                          • Martin Votruba
                            ... I agree, Helen. I m not basing my guess on handwriting, Andrea. My guess was not based on whether it s _no-_ or _na-_, it ll remain the same regardless
                            Message 13 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              > "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

                              I agree, Helen. I'm not basing my guess on handwriting, Andrea. My
                              guess was not based on whether it's _no-_ or _na-_, it'll remain the
                              same regardless of which of the two it is.

                              It was not unusual for the Slovak-Americans to transcribe the Slovak
                              [a] with the letter _o_. The American [o] in _not_, for example_,
                              sounds like a transcription of the Slovak sound [a] to the Slovaks so
                              it's not surprising that those more familiar with the English
                              spelling, or not particularly good at spelling in either of the two
                              languages, sometimes transcribed a Slovak word with an [a] with the
                              letter _o_ in English.

                              The reading _na motori_ both matches the use of the preposition _z_
                              used in the preceding phrase _z majny_, and explains why the final
                              sound is [i]: it is the case ending required by the preposition _na_
                              in this construction, "I was unconscious (literally 'didn't know about
                              that') when they pulled (literally: 'drove out/gave a ride out') me on
                              a motor out of the mine."

                              tanier - na tanieri
                              majer - na majeri, etc.


                              Martin

                              votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                            • Andrea Vangor
                              Yes, I have seen it and it is really funny. An under-appreciated corner of our culture. ... From: Caye Caswick To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                              Message 14 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Yes, I have seen it and it is really funny. An under-appreciated corner of our culture.


                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Caye Caswick
                                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:46 AM
                                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.



                                There is a clever one (although it doesn't
                                specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like
                                Coal Speak -- if you Google "coal speak" I'm sure
                                you'll find it -- it has a "dictionary" of
                                pronounciation and definitions (very clever) -- also
                                some excellent sleighing routes (using various fun
                                things you can find around the home/yard as vehicles)
                                -- check it out for fun.

                                Caye

                                --- Andrea Vangor <drav@...> wrote:

                                > What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker
                                > Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn
                                > by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the
                                > context. His relative was badly injured in a mine
                                > disaster and was writing home to describe it.
                                >
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: Helen Fedor
                                > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
                                > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars
                                > please help.
                                >
                                >
                                > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
                                >
                                > H
                                >
                                > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                                > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the
                                > no-motor? A real mule?
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: ssultonia
                                > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                                > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please
                                > help.
                                >
                                > In some mining areas I think they continued to
                                > call the motorized
                                > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put
                                > out to pasture.
                                > Bill
                                >
                                > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor"
                                > <hfed@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                                > http://images.google.com/imgres?
                                >
                                >
                                imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                                >
                                >
                                jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                                >
                                >
                                h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                                >
                                >
                                0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                                > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                                > >
                                > > H
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                                > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph
                                > or drawing of
                                > one.
                                > >
                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > From: David
                                > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                                > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars
                                > please help.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars
                                > into the mine.
                                > It is
                                > > called a "mine motor."
                                > > Dave
                                > >
                                > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                                > >
                                > > >This is what happens when languages come in
                                > contact,
                                > specifically
                                > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my
                                > own family, we
                                > were
                                > > >almost shameless about it. English words were
                                > taken into Slovak
                                > and
                                > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                                > > >
                                > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of
                                > NOMODOR, which is
                                > how
                                > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't
                                > know anything
                                > about
                                > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece
                                > of equipment
                                > (like a
                                > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even
                                > informally? He
                                > says
                                > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't
                                > remember, even
                                > when
                                > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with
                                > vehicles) him out of
                                > the mine.
                                > > >
                                > > >I hope this helps,
                                > > >H
                                > > >
                                > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06
                                > 4:15 PM >>>
                                > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line
                                > from his
                                > relative who
                                > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is
                                > interesting from a
                                > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a
                                > man aged 32 when
                                > he
                                > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but
                                > he quickly
                                > adopted a
                                > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and
                                > used them in his
                                > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes
                                > translation
                                > difficult.
                                > > >
                                > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I
                                > have in large
                                > caps.
                                > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized
                                > English word. The
                                > second
                                > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                                > > >
                                > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja
                                > som o tom
                                > nevedel, ked
                                > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine
                                > ... resp. out of
                                > the mine )
                                > > >
                                > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
                                > removed]
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                > removed]
                                > >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                > removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                > removed]
                                >
                                >

                                __________________________________________________________
                                Have a burning question?
                                Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.




                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Andrea Vangor
                                I d love to post it but Yahoo! seems to have forgotten who I am. I ll have to re-register, unless someone wants to post it for me. ... From: Helen Fedor To:
                                Message 15 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I'd love to post it but Yahoo! seems to have forgotten who I am. I'll have to re-register, unless someone wants to post it for me.

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Helen Fedor
                                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:34 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                                  Please post it for all to see. "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

                                  H

                                  >>> drav@... 12/06/06 9:18 AM >>>
                                  Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Martin Votruba
                                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
                                  Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.

                                  >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                                  > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                                  I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                                  is na motori "on the motor."

                                  Martin

                                  votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu

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