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Slovak scholars please help.

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  • Andrea Vangor
    Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his relative who disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a linguistic point of view,
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 4, 2006
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      Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his relative who disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when he immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly adopted a sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation difficult.

      Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large caps. He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The second word in caps is a good example of this.

      ... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of the mine )

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Helen Fedor
      This is what happens when languages come in contact, specifically when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we were almost shameless about
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 4, 2006
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        This is what happens when languages come in contact, specifically when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we were almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak and then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.

        I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is how Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything about mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment (like a coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He says that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even when the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of the mine.

        I hope this helps,
        H



        >>> drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
        Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his relative who disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when he immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly adopted a sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation difficult.

        Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large caps. He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The second word in caps is a good example of this.

        ... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of the mine )

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Andrea Vangor
        Well, that is a brilliant suggestion. I ll send it along. Thanks, Helen! ... From: Helen Fedor To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 04,
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 4, 2006
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          Well, that is a brilliant suggestion. I'll send it along. Thanks, Helen!

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Helen Fedor
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 1:34 PM
          Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.


          This is what happens when languages come in contact, specifically when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we were almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak and then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.

          I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is how Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything about mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment (like a coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He says that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even when the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of the mine.

          I hope this helps,
          H

          >>> drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
          Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his relative who disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when he immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly adopted a sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation difficult.

          Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large caps. He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The second word in caps is a good example of this.

          ... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of the mine )

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • David
          Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine. It is called a mine motor. Dave
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 4, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine. It is
            called a "mine motor."
            Dave

            At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:

            >This is what happens when languages come in contact, specifically
            >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we were
            >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak and
            >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
            >
            >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is how
            >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything about
            >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment (like a
            >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He says
            >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even when
            >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of the mine.
            >
            >I hope this helps,
            >H
            >
            > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
            >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his relative who
            >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
            >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when he
            >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly adopted a
            >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
            >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation difficult.
            >
            >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large caps.
            >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The second
            >word in caps is a good example of this.
            >
            >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom nevedel, ked
            >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of the mine )
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
          • Andrea Vangor
            That sounds right. I ll try to find a photograph or drawing of one. ... From: David To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 4, 2006
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              That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of one.

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: David
              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
              Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.



              Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine. It is
              called a "mine motor."
              Dave

              At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:

              >This is what happens when languages come in contact, specifically
              >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we were
              >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak and
              >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
              >
              >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is how
              >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything about
              >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment (like a
              >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He says
              >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even when
              >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of the mine.
              >
              >I hope this helps,
              >H
              >
              > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
              >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his relative who
              >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
              >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when he
              >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly adopted a
              >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
              >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation difficult.
              >
              >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large caps.
              >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The second
              >word in caps is a good example of this.
              >
              >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom nevedel, ked
              >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of the mine )
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Helen Fedor
              Here s an old photo I found on Google images:
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
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                Here's an old photo I found on Google images: < http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_en >.

                H




                >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of one.

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: David
                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.



                Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine. It is
                called a "mine motor."
                Dave

                At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:

                >This is what happens when languages come in contact, specifically
                >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we were
                >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak and
                >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                >
                >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is how
                >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything about
                >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment (like a
                >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He says
                >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even when
                >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of the mine.
                >
                >I hope this helps,
                >H
                >
                > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
                >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his relative who
                >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
                >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when he
                >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly adopted a
                >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
                >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation difficult.
                >
                >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large caps.
                >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The second
                >word in caps is a good example of this.
                >
                >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom nevedel, ked
                >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of the mine )
                >
                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • ssultonia
                In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized car a mule even after the real mules were put out to pasture. Bill ...
                Message 7 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
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                  In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
                  car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
                  Bill



                  --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                  http://images.google.com/imgres?
                  imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                  jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                  h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                  0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                  26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                  >
                  > H
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                  > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
                  one.
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: David
                  > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
                  It is
                  > called a "mine motor."
                  > Dave
                  >
                  > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                  >
                  > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
                  specifically
                  > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
                  were
                  > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
                  and
                  > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                  > >
                  > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
                  how
                  > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
                  about
                  > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
                  (like a
                  > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
                  says
                  > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
                  when
                  > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
                  the mine.
                  > >
                  > >I hope this helps,
                  > >H
                  > >
                  > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
                  > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
                  relative who
                  > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
                  > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
                  he
                  > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
                  adopted a
                  > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
                  > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
                  difficult.
                  > >
                  > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
                  caps.
                  > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
                  second
                  > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                  > >
                  > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                  nevedel, ked
                  > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
                  the mine )
                  > >
                  > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Andrea Vangor
                  Thanks, Helen -- that s quite a web site. I sent it to Mario. What did we think a no-motor would be -- perhaps something drawn by mules? ... From: Helen
                  Message 8 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks, Helen -- that's quite a web site. I sent it to Mario. What did we think a "no-motor" would be -- perhaps something drawn by mules?


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Helen Fedor
                    To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 5:32 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.


                    Here's an old photo I found on Google images: < http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_en >.

                    H

                    >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                    That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of one.

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: David
                    To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.

                    Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine. It is
                    called a "mine motor."
                    Dave

                    At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:

                    >This is what happens when languages come in contact, specifically
                    >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we were
                    >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak and
                    >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                    >
                    >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is how
                    >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything about
                    >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment (like a
                    >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He says
                    >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even when
                    >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of the mine.
                    >
                    >I hope this helps,
                    >H
                    >
                    > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
                    >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his relative who
                    >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
                    >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when he
                    >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly adopted a
                    >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
                    >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation difficult.
                    >
                    >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large caps.
                    >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The second
                    >word in caps is a good example of this.
                    >
                    >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom nevedel, ked
                    >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of the mine )
                    >
                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Andrea Vangor
                    Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule? ... From: ssultonia To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006
                    Message 9 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule?


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: ssultonia
                      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                      Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                      In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
                      car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
                      Bill

                      --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                      http://images.google.com/imgres?
                      imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                      jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                      h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                      0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                      26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                      >
                      > H
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                      > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
                      one.
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: David
                      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
                      It is
                      > called a "mine motor."
                      > Dave
                      >
                      > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                      >
                      > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
                      specifically
                      > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
                      were
                      > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
                      and
                      > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                      > >
                      > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
                      how
                      > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
                      about
                      > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
                      (like a
                      > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
                      says
                      > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
                      when
                      > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
                      the mine.
                      > >
                      > >I hope this helps,
                      > >H
                      > >
                      > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
                      > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
                      relative who
                      > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
                      > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
                      he
                      > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
                      adopted a
                      > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
                      > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
                      difficult.
                      > >
                      > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
                      caps.
                      > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
                      second
                      > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                      > >
                      > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                      nevedel, ked
                      > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
                      the mine )
                      > >
                      > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Helen Fedor
                      Quite possibly. H ... Thanks, Helen -- that s quite a web site. I sent it to Mario. What did we think a no-motor would be -- perhaps something drawn by
                      Message 10 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Quite possibly.

                        H



                        >>> drav@... 12/05/06 2:47 PM >>>
                        Thanks, Helen -- that's quite a web site. I sent it to Mario. What did we think a "no-motor" would be -- perhaps something drawn by mules?


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Helen Fedor
                        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 5:32 AM
                        Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.


                        Here's an old photo I found on Google images: < http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_en >.

                        H

                        >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                        That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of one.

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: David
                        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                        Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.

                        Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine. It is
                        called a "mine motor."
                        Dave

                        At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:

                        >This is what happens when languages come in contact, specifically
                        >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we were
                        >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak and
                        >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                        >
                        >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is how
                        >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything about
                        >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment (like a
                        >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He says
                        >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even when
                        >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of the mine.
                        >
                        >I hope this helps,
                        >H
                        >
                        > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
                        >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his relative who
                        >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
                        >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when he
                        >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly adopted a
                        >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
                        >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation difficult.
                        >
                        >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large caps.
                        >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The second
                        >word in caps is a good example of this.
                        >
                        >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom nevedel, ked
                        >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of the mine )
                        >
                        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Helen Fedor
                        Or a cart hitched up to a mule. H ... Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule? ... From: ssultonia To:
                        Message 11 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Or a cart hitched up to a mule.

                          H



                          >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                          Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule?


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: ssultonia
                          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                          Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                          In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
                          car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
                          Bill

                          --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                          http://images.google.com/imgres?
                          imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                          jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                          h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                          0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                          26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                          >
                          > H
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                          > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
                          one.
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: David
                          > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
                          It is
                          > called a "mine motor."
                          > Dave
                          >
                          > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                          >
                          > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
                          specifically
                          > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
                          were
                          > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
                          and
                          > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                          > >
                          > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
                          how
                          > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
                          about
                          > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
                          (like a
                          > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
                          says
                          > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
                          when
                          > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
                          the mine.
                          > >
                          > >I hope this helps,
                          > >H
                          > >
                          > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
                          > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
                          relative who
                          > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
                          > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
                          he
                          > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
                          adopted a
                          > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
                          > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
                          difficult.
                          > >
                          > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
                          caps.
                          > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
                          second
                          > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                          > >
                          > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                          nevedel, ked
                          > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
                          the mine )
                          > >
                          > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Andrea Vangor
                          What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker Slov-English. No-motor does suggest a cart drawn by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the context. His
                          Message 12 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the context. His relative was badly injured in a mine disaster and was writing home to describe it.


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Helen Fedor
                            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                            Or a cart hitched up to a mule.

                            H

                            >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                            Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real mule?

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: ssultonia
                            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                            Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.

                            In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
                            car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
                            Bill

                            --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                            http://images.google.com/imgres?
                            imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                            jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                            h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                            0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                            26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                            >
                            > H
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                            > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
                            one.
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: David
                            > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
                            It is
                            > called a "mine motor."
                            > Dave
                            >
                            > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                            >
                            > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
                            specifically
                            > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
                            were
                            > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
                            and
                            > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                            > >
                            > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
                            how
                            > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
                            about
                            > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
                            (like a
                            > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
                            says
                            > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
                            when
                            > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
                            the mine.
                            > >
                            > >I hope this helps,
                            > >H
                            > >
                            > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
                            > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
                            relative who
                            > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
                            > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
                            he
                            > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
                            adopted a
                            > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
                            > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
                            difficult.
                            > >
                            > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
                            caps.
                            > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
                            second
                            > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                            > >
                            > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                            nevedel, ked
                            > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
                            the mine )
                            > >
                            > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • ssultonia
                            Geez. It was slang used by Slovak miners,Italian miners, Irish miners, American miners - nothing more, nothing less. Bill ... mule?
                            Message 13 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Geez. It was slang used by Slovak miners,Italian miners, Irish
                              miners, American miners - nothing more, nothing less.
                              Bill


                              --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
                              >
                              > H
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                              > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the no-motor? A real
                              mule?
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: ssultonia
                              > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                              > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.
                              >
                              >
                              > In some mining areas I think they continued to call the motorized
                              > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put out to pasture.
                              > Bill
                              >
                              > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                              > http://images.google.com/imgres?
                              > imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                              > jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                              > h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                              > 0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                              > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                              > >
                              > > H
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > >>> drav@ 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                              > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph or drawing of
                              > one.
                              > >
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > From: David
                              > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                              > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars please help.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars into the mine.
                              > It is
                              > > called a "mine motor."
                              > > Dave
                              > >
                              > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                              > >
                              > > >This is what happens when languages come in contact,
                              > specifically
                              > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my own family, we
                              > were
                              > > >almost shameless about it. English words were taken into Slovak
                              > and
                              > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                              > > >
                              > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of NOMODOR, which is
                              > how
                              > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't know anything
                              > about
                              > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece of equipment
                              > (like a
                              > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even informally? He
                              > says
                              > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't remember, even
                              > when
                              > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with vehicles) him out of
                              > the mine.
                              > > >
                              > > >I hope this helps,
                              > > >H
                              > > >
                              > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@ 12/04/06 4:15 PM >>>
                              > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line from his
                              > relative who
                              > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is interesting from a
                              > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a man aged 32 when
                              > he
                              > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but he quickly
                              > adopted a
                              > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and used them in his
                              > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes translation
                              > difficult.
                              > > >
                              > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I have in large
                              > caps.
                              > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized English word. The
                              > second
                              > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                              > > >
                              > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                              > nevedel, ked
                              > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine ... resp. out of
                              > the mine )
                              > > >
                              > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Martin Votruba
                              ... I d say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny from the mine, _nomodri_ is na motori on the motor. Martin votruba at pitt dot edu
                              Message 14 of 20 , Dec 5, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                                > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                                I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                                is na motori "on the motor."


                                Martin

                                votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                              • Andrea Vangor
                                Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.
                                Message 15 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Martin Votruba
                                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
                                  Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                                  >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                                  > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                                  I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                                  is na motori "on the motor."

                                  Martin

                                  votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Helen Fedor
                                  Please post it for all to see. O s and a s can look very much alike in handwriting. H ... Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Please post it for all to see. "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

                                    H


                                    >>> drav@... 12/06/06 9:18 AM >>>
                                    Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Martin Votruba
                                    To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
                                    Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                                    >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                                    > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                                    I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                                    is na motori "on the motor."

                                    Martin

                                    votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Caye Caswick
                                    There is a clever one (although it doesn t specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like Coal Speak -- if you Google coal speak I m sure you ll find
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      There is a clever one (although it doesn't
                                      specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like
                                      Coal Speak -- if you Google "coal speak" I'm sure
                                      you'll find it -- it has a "dictionary" of
                                      pronounciation and definitions (very clever) -- also
                                      some excellent sleighing routes (using various fun
                                      things you can find around the home/yard as vehicles)
                                      -- check it out for fun.



                                      Caye



                                      --- Andrea Vangor <drav@...> wrote:

                                      > What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker
                                      > Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn
                                      > by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the
                                      > context. His relative was badly injured in a mine
                                      > disaster and was writing home to describe it.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: Helen Fedor
                                      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
                                      > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars
                                      > please help.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
                                      >
                                      > H
                                      >
                                      > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                                      > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the
                                      > no-motor? A real mule?
                                      >
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: ssultonia
                                      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                                      > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please
                                      > help.
                                      >
                                      > In some mining areas I think they continued to
                                      > call the motorized
                                      > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put
                                      > out to pasture.
                                      > Bill
                                      >
                                      > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor"
                                      > <hfed@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                                      > http://images.google.com/imgres?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                                      >
                                      >
                                      h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                                      >
                                      >
                                      0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                                      > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                                      > >
                                      > > H
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                                      > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph
                                      > or drawing of
                                      > one.
                                      > >
                                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > From: David
                                      > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                                      > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars
                                      > please help.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars
                                      > into the mine.
                                      > It is
                                      > > called a "mine motor."
                                      > > Dave
                                      > >
                                      > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > >This is what happens when languages come in
                                      > contact,
                                      > specifically
                                      > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my
                                      > own family, we
                                      > were
                                      > > >almost shameless about it. English words were
                                      > taken into Slovak
                                      > and
                                      > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of
                                      > NOMODOR, which is
                                      > how
                                      > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't
                                      > know anything
                                      > about
                                      > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece
                                      > of equipment
                                      > (like a
                                      > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even
                                      > informally? He
                                      > says
                                      > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't
                                      > remember, even
                                      > when
                                      > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with
                                      > vehicles) him out of
                                      > the mine.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >I hope this helps,
                                      > > >H
                                      > > >
                                      > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06
                                      > 4:15 PM >>>
                                      > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line
                                      > from his
                                      > relative who
                                      > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is
                                      > interesting from a
                                      > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a
                                      > man aged 32 when
                                      > he
                                      > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but
                                      > he quickly
                                      > adopted a
                                      > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and
                                      > used them in his
                                      > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes
                                      > translation
                                      > difficult.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I
                                      > have in large
                                      > caps.
                                      > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized
                                      > English word. The
                                      > second
                                      > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja
                                      > som o tom
                                      > nevedel, ked
                                      > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine
                                      > ... resp. out of
                                      > the mine )
                                      > > >
                                      > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
                                      > removed]
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                      > removed]
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                      > removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                      > removed]
                                      >
                                      >




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                                    • Martin Votruba
                                      ... I agree, Helen. I m not basing my guess on handwriting, Andrea. My guess was not based on whether it s _no-_ or _na-_, it ll remain the same regardless
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        > "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

                                        I agree, Helen. I'm not basing my guess on handwriting, Andrea. My
                                        guess was not based on whether it's _no-_ or _na-_, it'll remain the
                                        same regardless of which of the two it is.

                                        It was not unusual for the Slovak-Americans to transcribe the Slovak
                                        [a] with the letter _o_. The American [o] in _not_, for example_,
                                        sounds like a transcription of the Slovak sound [a] to the Slovaks so
                                        it's not surprising that those more familiar with the English
                                        spelling, or not particularly good at spelling in either of the two
                                        languages, sometimes transcribed a Slovak word with an [a] with the
                                        letter _o_ in English.

                                        The reading _na motori_ both matches the use of the preposition _z_
                                        used in the preceding phrase _z majny_, and explains why the final
                                        sound is [i]: it is the case ending required by the preposition _na_
                                        in this construction, "I was unconscious (literally 'didn't know about
                                        that') when they pulled (literally: 'drove out/gave a ride out') me on
                                        a motor out of the mine."

                                        tanier - na tanieri
                                        majer - na majeri, etc.


                                        Martin

                                        votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                                      • Andrea Vangor
                                        Yes, I have seen it and it is really funny. An under-appreciated corner of our culture. ... From: Caye Caswick To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Yes, I have seen it and it is really funny. An under-appreciated corner of our culture.


                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: Caye Caswick
                                          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:46 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.



                                          There is a clever one (although it doesn't
                                          specifically refer to mining lingo) -- something like
                                          Coal Speak -- if you Google "coal speak" I'm sure
                                          you'll find it -- it has a "dictionary" of
                                          pronounciation and definitions (very clever) -- also
                                          some excellent sleighing routes (using various fun
                                          things you can find around the home/yard as vehicles)
                                          -- check it out for fun.

                                          Caye

                                          --- Andrea Vangor <drav@...> wrote:

                                          > What we need is a lexicon of Coal-Cracker
                                          > Slov-English. "No-motor" does suggest a cart drawn
                                          > by mules or people. Maybe Mario can give us the
                                          > context. His relative was badly injured in a mine
                                          > disaster and was writing home to describe it.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > From: Helen Fedor
                                          > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:06 PM
                                          > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars
                                          > please help.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Or a cart hitched up to a mule.
                                          >
                                          > H
                                          >
                                          > >>> drav@... 12/05/06 3:05 PM >>>
                                          > Well, if the motorized car is a mule, what is the
                                          > no-motor? A real mule?
                                          >
                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > From: ssultonia
                                          > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:41 AM
                                          > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please
                                          > help.
                                          >
                                          > In some mining areas I think they continued to
                                          > call the motorized
                                          > car a "mule" even after the real mules were put
                                          > out to pasture.
                                          > Bill
                                          >
                                          > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor"
                                          > <hfed@...> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Here's an old photo I found on Google images: <
                                          > http://images.google.com/imgres?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          imgurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/image/elkhorn7.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coaleducation.org/CoalHistory/tech2/e10.htm&
                                          >
                                          >
                                          h=367&w=500&sz=80&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aeUnCjq13Iqr0M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=13
                                          >
                                          >
                                          0&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522mine%2Bmotor%2522%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%
                                          > 26lr%3Dlang_en >.
                                          > >
                                          > > H
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > >>> drav@... 12/04/06 10:47 PM >>>
                                          > > That sounds right. I'll try to find a photograph
                                          > or drawing of
                                          > one.
                                          > >
                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > From: David
                                          > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:01 PM
                                          > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Slovak scholars
                                          > please help.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Hi: There is the engine that pulls the coal cars
                                          > into the mine.
                                          > It is
                                          > > called a "mine motor."
                                          > > Dave
                                          > >
                                          > > At 06:04 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > >This is what happens when languages come in
                                          > contact,
                                          > specifically
                                          > > >when Slovak came to the U.S. I know that, in my
                                          > own family, we
                                          > were
                                          > > >almost shameless about it. English words were
                                          > taken into Slovak
                                          > and
                                          > > >then had Slovak endings slapped onto them.
                                          > > >
                                          > > >I'm guessing that NOMODRI is the plural of
                                          > NOMODOR, which is
                                          > how
                                          > > >Slovaks would have heard "no motor". I don't
                                          > know anything
                                          > about
                                          > > >mining, so does anyone know if there's a piece
                                          > of equipment
                                          > (like a
                                          > > >coal car or something) that's called that, even
                                          > informally? He
                                          > says
                                          > > >that he didn't know what was going on, doesn't
                                          > remember, even
                                          > when
                                          > > >the NOMODRI drove (this verb is used with
                                          > vehicles) him out of
                                          > the mine.
                                          > > >
                                          > > >I hope this helps,
                                          > > >H
                                          > > >
                                          > > > >>> <mailto:drav%40oz.net>drav@... 12/04/06
                                          > 4:15 PM >>>
                                          > > >Our friend Mario is trying to translate a line
                                          > from his
                                          > relative who
                                          > > >disappeared in America circa 1913. What is
                                          > interesting from a
                                          > > >linguistic point of view, is that here was a
                                          > man aged 32 when
                                          > he
                                          > > >immigrated in 1912. He was very literate, but
                                          > he quickly
                                          > adopted a
                                          > > >sort of Slovacized set of English words and
                                          > used them in his
                                          > > >correspondence to his wife back home. It makes
                                          > translation
                                          > difficult.
                                          > > >
                                          > > >Mario is trying to figure out the first word I
                                          > have in large
                                          > caps.
                                          > > >He can't tell if it is another Slovacized
                                          > English word. The
                                          > second
                                          > > >word in caps is a good example of this.
                                          > > >
                                          > > >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja
                                          > som o tom
                                          > nevedel, ked
                                          > > >ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY (from the mine
                                          > ... resp. out of
                                          > the mine )
                                          > > >
                                          > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
                                          > removed]
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                          > removed]
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                          > removed]
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                          > removed]
                                          >
                                          >

                                          __________________________________________________________
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                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Andrea Vangor
                                          I d love to post it but Yahoo! seems to have forgotten who I am. I ll have to re-register, unless someone wants to post it for me. ... From: Helen Fedor To:
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Dec 6, 2006
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            I'd love to post it but Yahoo! seems to have forgotten who I am. I'll have to re-register, unless someone wants to post it for me.

                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: Helen Fedor
                                            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:34 AM
                                            Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.


                                            Please post it for all to see. "O"s and "a"s can look very much alike in handwriting.

                                            H

                                            >>> drav@... 12/06/06 9:18 AM >>>
                                            Martin, I have the original letter scanned, from Mario. Would you like to see it? Your suggestion sounds good but it might help to see the actual writing.

                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: Martin Votruba
                                            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 PM
                                            Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovak scholars please help.

                                            >... ledva vimohli zema mrtveho vitahly ale ja som o tom
                                            > nevedel, ked ma NOMODRI vivezly ven ZMAJNY

                                            I'd say that just like _zmajny_ is z majny "from the mine," _nomodri_
                                            is na motori "on the motor."

                                            Martin

                                            votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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