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Does anyone know the story?

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  • Helen Fedor
    Looking at Jan Kollar s 1834 books of folk songs, I noticed that the first song is one I have on a tape of Slovak folk music from NW Slovakia. Kollar has it
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 6, 2006
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      Looking at Jan Kollar's 1834 books of folk songs, I noticed that the first song is one I have on a tape of Slovak folk music from NW Slovakia. Kollar has it in a chapter of songs and song fragments that harken back to the Slovak pagan past (including songs to and about Morena/Muriena/etc. and Perun/Parom/etc.). Does anyone have any idea of what's behind the song and the name?

      <D'und'a>
      Each line starts and ends with "Hoja, D'und'a, hoja!" (the song is a dialogue between 2 groups):

      The queen sent us.
      For what did she send you?
      For three wagons of stones.
      Why do you need stones?
      To build golden bridges.
      Will you let us cross over them?
      What will you give us as a gift?
      A dark-eyed little girl.
      Well then run and hurry!


      The next song is about "D'undic~ek". Is he somehow related? The first line is "Janic~ku, Janic~ku, my dear D'undic~ek!"

      And who are Zmok and Lel and Bobo?

      Heck, there's even a song (next chapter: historical events) about the Cumans!

      H
    • Joe Armata
      Hoja D und a is an Easter song and game. I don t know anything about whether the words refer to a historical event, or if it s just a song someone made up.
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 8, 2006
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        "Hoja D'und'a" is an Easter song and game. I don't know anything about
        whether the words refer to a historical event, or if it's just a song
        someone made up.

        One way of playing is a pair of girls makes Group 1, and face each other
        and hold up their joined hands, forming a "bridge" (actually an arch - I
        guess it represents a covered bridge). The rest of the girls make Group 2.
        The two groups sing the song back and forth. The Group 2 girls join
        hands in pairs and walk under the "bridge" of Group 1, and at some point
        the Group 1 girls bring down their hands and trap a pair passing under.
        That pair joins Group 1, and the game restarts, until all the girls are in
        Group 1.

        In other words, kind of a Slovak version of "London Bridge is Falling
        Down". (To which a Slovak might ask, why is the bridge falling down, and
        who is this unfortunate woman who gets locked up?!)

        Joe



        > Looking at Jan Kollar's 1834 books of folk songs, I noticed that the
        > first song is one I have on a tape of Slovak folk music from NW
        > Slovakia. Kollar has it in a chapter of songs and song fragments that
        > harken back to the Slovak pagan past (including songs to and about
        > Morena/Muriena/etc. and Perun/Parom/etc.). Does anyone have any idea of
        > what's behind the song and the name?
        >
        > <D'und'a> Each line starts and ends with "Hoja, D'und'a, hoja!" (the
        > song is a dialogue between 2 groups):
        >
        > The queen sent us. For what did she send you? For three wagons of
        > stones. Why do you need stones? To build golden bridges. Will you let us
        > cross over them? What will you give us as a gift? A dark-eyed little
        > girl. Well then run and hurry!
        >
        >
        > The next song is about "D'undic~ek". Is he somehow related? The first
        > line is "Janic~ku, Janic~ku, my dear D'undic~ek!"
        >
        > And who are Zmok and Lel and Bobo?
        >
        > Heck, there's even a song (next chapter: historical events) about the
        > Cumans!
        >
        > H
        >
        >
      • Helen Fedor
        No kidding! I never heard about this. Kollar puts this song squarely in the pagan section though, so just like London Bridge is Falling Down refers back
        Message 3 of 4 , Oct 8, 2006
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          No kidding! I never heard about this.

          Kollar puts this song squarely in the "pagan" section though, so just like "London Bridge is Falling Down" refers back to something, so does this, but to a pagan ritual of some sort? The name "D'und'a" doesn't sound like any of the Slavic goddesses I remember reading about, but maybe she was a local gal. And then there's
          "D'undic~ek".

          And Zmok and Lel and Bobo.

          H



          Helen Fedor
          European Division
          Library of Congress
          10 E. First St., S.E.
          Washington, D.C. 20540-4830
          tel. (202) 707-3704
          fax (202) 707-8482
          <hfed@...>
          >>> JArmata@... 10/08/06 4:44 PM >>>
          "Hoja D'und'a" is an Easter song and game. I don't know anything about
          whether the words refer to a historical event, or if it's just a song
          someone made up.

          One way of playing is a pair of girls makes Group 1, and face each other
          and hold up their joined hands, forming a "bridge" (actually an arch - I
          guess it represents a covered bridge). The rest of the girls make Group 2.
          The two groups sing the song back and forth. The Group 2 girls join
          hands in pairs and walk under the "bridge" of Group 1, and at some point
          the Group 1 girls bring down their hands and trap a pair passing under.
          That pair joins Group 1, and the game restarts, until all the girls are in
          Group 1.

          In other words, kind of a Slovak version of "London Bridge is Falling
          Down". (To which a Slovak might ask, why is the bridge falling down, and
          who is this unfortunate woman who gets locked up?!)

          Joe



          > Looking at Jan Kollar's 1834 books of folk songs, I noticed that the
          > first song is one I have on a tape of Slovak folk music from NW
          > Slovakia. Kollar has it in a chapter of songs and song fragments that
          > harken back to the Slovak pagan past (including songs to and about
          > Morena/Muriena/etc. and Perun/Parom/etc.). Does anyone have any idea of
          > what's behind the song and the name?
          >
          > <D'und'a> Each line starts and ends with "Hoja, D'und'a, hoja!" (the
          > song is a dialogue between 2 groups):
          >
          > The queen sent us. For what did she send you? For three wagons of
          > stones. Why do you need stones? To build golden bridges. Will you let us
          > cross over them? What will you give us as a gift? A dark-eyed little
          > girl. Well then run and hurry!
          >
          >
          > The next song is about "D'undic~ek". Is he somehow related? The first
          > line is "Janic~ku, Janic~ku, my dear D'undic~ek!"
          >
          > And who are Zmok and Lel and Bobo?
          >
          > Heck, there's even a song (next chapter: historical events) about the
          > Cumans!
          >
          > H
          >
          >
        • Martin Votruba
          Slovak ethnologists still see it as one of the oldest remnants traceable in Slovak folk songs, Helen. With Hoja, Dunda, hoja it s not just the opacity of
          Message 4 of 4 , Oct 9, 2006
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            Slovak ethnologists still see it as one of the oldest remnants
            traceable in Slovak folk songs, Helen. With "Hoja, Dunda, hoja" it's
            not just the opacity of the phrase but also what Joe described.
            Dancing in circles is often considered one of the ancient ways to
            dance. The claim is that the children's/girls game that goes with
            "Hoja, Dunda..." preserves traces of that, which in turn supports the
            assumption that the verse is quite old.

            If it is, it's probably really just that verse. Much of the rest of
            the song is, supposedly, an accumulation of more recent replacements
            of what it might have been earlier.

            There are very few such verses. Each such verse in a song is more
            like a possibly identifiable ancient pebble in a mosaic that has been
            redone numerous times, almost beyond recognition, in much more recent
            times.

            The other two such supposedly ancient verses preserved in Slovak folk
            songs that I recall are "Jano, Jano, Vajano..." and "Morena, Morena,
            za koho-s horela/umrela? | Ne za ny, ne za ny, nez za ty krestany."

            Morena is the white-clad effigy of winter/death traditionally drowned
            or burned around Easter. It is believed to go back to ancient Slavic
            mythology and celebration of spring. In addition to their enigmatic
            meaning, those two verses preserve very old Slovak grammar:

            ___ Morena, Morena, for whom didst thou burn/die?
            ___ Not for us, not for us, else for 'em Christians.

            Why would Morena be burning for the Christians? Wouldn't it have been
            the other way round, that Christianity brought about the demise of the
            cult of Morena? Who torched her? And who's singing, who were the
            people who didn't benefit from Morena's sacrifice, were they happy or
            sad? If had been the pagans' lament over the suppression of their
            beliefs, why would the verses have survived till the present? What
            events do the verses reflect? The opaque language that might be read
            several ways makes it even more difficult to pin down.


            Martin

            votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
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