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nech sa pac^i...

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  • J. Michutka
    You know, I thought I had the nech sa pac^i thing figured out before this last trip to Slovakia.....people selling things would say nech sa pac^i and it
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 30, 2006
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      You know, I thought I had the "nech sa pac^i" thing figured out before this
      last trip to Slovakia.....people selling things would say "nech sa pac^i"
      and it meant sort of "here you are", referring to the items they were
      selling. But this time I noticed, in shops at least, that the people
      saying it acted like they expected a response, and I didn't know what to
      say/do. (The Slovak equivalent of "Just looking, thanks"?) One time I was
      with a cousin in a shop, and when we were addressed with the inevitable
      "nech sa pac^i", and the shopkeeper looked at me like I say something in
      return, my cousin stepped in with some reply; I forgot to ask her later
      what she said, or what I should have said.

      So, what is the expected proper and polite response to "nech sa pac^i"?

      Julie Michutka, wanting to get it right on the next trip
      jmm@...
    • Helen Fedor
      As my deceased non-Slovak-learning-the-Slovak-language friend +Ivon Harris said long ago in Bratislava, with a twinkle in his eye, When you hear about that
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 30, 2006
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        As my deceased non-Slovak-learning-the-Slovak-language friend +Ivon Harris said long ago in Bratislava, with a twinkle in his eye, "When you hear about that Next Apache, you know there's going to be movement toward something...a chair, a place in line, or food." Most of the time, "nech sa pac~i" means that something's being offered, so the appropriate response would be "D'akujem". It could also mean "as you wish", to close a conversation. I've also heard the variant "Pac~i sa", meaning the same thing.

        H




        >>> jmm@... 08/30/06 10:21 AM >>>
        You know, I thought I had the "nech sa pac^i" thing figured out before this
        last trip to Slovakia.....people selling things would say "nech sa pac^i"
        and it meant sort of "here you are", referring to the items they were
        selling. But this time I noticed, in shops at least, that the people
        saying it acted like they expected a response, and I didn't know what to
        say/do. (The Slovak equivalent of "Just looking, thanks"?) One time I was
        with a cousin in a shop, and when we were addressed with the inevitable
        "nech sa pac^i", and the shopkeeper looked at me like I say something in
        return, my cousin stepped in with some reply; I forgot to ask her later
        what she said, or what I should have said.

        So, what is the expected proper and polite response to "nech sa pac^i"?

        Julie Michutka, wanting to get it right on the next trip
        jmm@...
      • Martin Votruba
        ... In that situation, Julie, in a store and when the salesperson uses nech sa paci in the service providers sense of can I help you? (it s not used in
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 30, 2006
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          > response to "nech sa pac^i"?

          In that situation, Julie, in a store and when the salesperson uses
          "nech sa paci" in the service providers' sense of "can I help you?"
          (it's not used in that sense in private situations), and you want to
          say, effectively, "not now" you can say:

          Moment. -- if you really need just a few seconds and want the preson
          to remain ready to help you right away.

          Otherwise:

          Dakujem, este neviem.

          Dakujem, musim sa najprv pozriet.

          And many other things, of course. Remember that you need that almost
          imperceptible Central European body-language support (an ultraslight
          simultaneous "no-movement" of your head and facial expression) in
          order for _dakujem_ to properly mean "no thank you." Naturally,
          context will clarify it regardless in these responses. If you get the
          body language and expression quite right, a simple _Dakujem._ will do.
          If not, if you throw in a North-American type of smile for instance,
          confusion will ensue.


          Martin

          votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
        • J. Michutka
          Thank you very much, Martin; this gets printed off and put into my travel file. Gosh, who knew there were so many ways to do the wrong thing? ;)
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 31, 2006
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            Thank you very much, Martin; this gets printed off and put into my travel
            file. Gosh, who knew there were so many ways to do the wrong thing? ;)

            At 03:12 AM 8/31/2006 +0000, you wrote:
            > > response to "nech sa pac^i"?
            >
            >In that situation, Julie, in a store and when the salesperson uses
            >"nech sa paci" in the service providers' sense of "can I help you?"
            >(it's not used in that sense in private situations), and you want to
            >say, effectively, "not now" you can say:
            >
            >Moment. -- if you really need just a few seconds and want the preson
            >to remain ready to help you right away.
            >
            >Otherwise:
            >
            >Dakujem, este neviem.
            >
            >Dakujem, musim sa najprv pozriet.
            >
            >And many other things, of course. Remember that you need that almost
            >imperceptible Central European body-language support (an ultraslight
            >simultaneous "no-movement" of your head and facial expression) in
            >order for _dakujem_ to properly mean "no thank you." Naturally,
            >context will clarify it regardless in these responses. If you get the
            >body language and expression quite right, a simple _Dakujem._ will do.
            > If not, if you throw in a North-American type of smile for instance,
            >confusion will ensue.
            >
            >
            >Martin
            >
            >votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Martin Votruba
            ... I think that was quite perceptive of him, Helen. Disregarding the service personnel s use in the sense of can I help you that Julie wanted to respond
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 31, 2006
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              > "When you hear about that Next Apache, you know there's going to
              > be movement toward something...a chair, a place in line, or food."

              I think that was quite perceptive of him, Helen. Disregarding the
              service personnel's use in the sense of "can I help you" that Julie
              wanted to respond to, all the traditional uses of _nech sa paci_ and
              of its English equivalents can be accompanied with the same gesture of
              one's arm (both in the US and in Slovakia):

              A) Nech sa paci. = Here you are. (take it)

              B) Nech sa paci. = Help yourself. (food); Go ahead. (do it)

              C) Nech sa paci. = After you. (at the door)

              Our students learn always to say _nech sa paci_, in all the uses, with
              that movement of their arms. It helps bridge what initially appear to
              be 3-4 disparate meanings. The underlying common meaning is "enabling
              another person" in 3-4 specific modifications.


              Martin

              votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
            • Vladimir Linder
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 31, 2006
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              • Scott T. Mikusko
                ... I heard it used at a bank for the equivalent of Next, please while in line to exchange money. Kind of threw me off at first. It s little things like
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 31, 2006
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                  On Thu, 31 Aug 2006, Martin Votruba wrote:

                  >
                  > A) Nech sa paci. = Here you are. (take it)
                  >
                  > B) Nech sa paci. = Help yourself. (food); Go ahead. (do it)
                  >
                  > C) Nech sa paci. = After you. (at the door)
                  >
                  > Our students learn always to say _nech sa paci_, in all the uses, with
                  > that movement of their arms. It helps bridge what initially appear to
                  > be 3-4 disparate meanings. The underlying common meaning is "enabling
                  > another person" in 3-4 specific modifications.


                  I heard it used at a bank for the equivalent of "Next, please" while in
                  line to exchange money. Kind of threw me off at first. It's little things
                  like this that make the difference between looking like a fool and being
                  enlightened.

                  I've been learning a bit of Russian, and they have a catch-all word/phrase
                  that seems to do the same thing as "nech sa paci". It's transliterated
                  as "pozhaluista", sounding like 'pah-ZHA-lis-ta'. Seems to be used for
                  "help yourself", "please", "excuse me", "here you are" etc.

                  Learning Russian after teaching myself Slovak has been quite fun. The
                  similaries are enough I can guess basic words and some grammar, though I
                  think I confuse my Russian teacher. I sure as hell can confuse myself! :)


                  -S
                  still annoyed that Slovak isn't taught in any northern California
                  universities
                • Helen Fedor
                  Is pac~i sa simply a colloquial version? H ... I think that was quite perceptive of him, Helen. Disregarding the service personnel s use in the sense of
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 31, 2006
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                    Is "pac~i sa" simply a colloquial version?

                    H


                    >>> votrubam@... 08/31/06 1:50 PM >>>
                    > "When you hear about that Next Apache, you know there's going to
                    > be movement toward something...a chair, a place in line, or food."

                    I think that was quite perceptive of him, Helen. Disregarding the
                    service personnel's use in the sense of "can I help you" that Julie
                    wanted to respond to, all the traditional uses of _nech sa paci_ and
                    of its English equivalents can be accompanied with the same gesture of
                    one's arm (both in the US and in Slovakia):

                    A) Nech sa paci. = Here you are. (take it)

                    B) Nech sa paci. = Help yourself. (food); Go ahead. (do it)

                    C) Nech sa paci. = After you. (at the door)

                    Our students learn always to say _nech sa paci_, in all the uses, with
                    that movement of their arms. It helps bridge what initially appear to
                    be 3-4 disparate meanings. The underlying common meaning is "enabling
                    another person" in 3-4 specific modifications.


                    Martin

                    votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                  • Helen Fedor
                    A good equivalent. The basic translation for pozhaluista ( pah-ZHAL-sta ) is please . The standard Russian phrase to invite someone to the table is
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 31, 2006
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                      A good equivalent. The basic translation for "pozhaluista" ('pah-ZHAL-sta') is "please". The standard Russian phrase to invite someone to the table is "Pozhaluista k stolu," lit.: Please to the table. There's that movement towards food again. ;-) Just think of all the different ways we use "please" in English.

                      I learned Russian after knowing (Zemplin) Slovak. The mobile stress drove me up the wall.

                      H



                      >>> guerilla@... 08/31/06 2:20 PM >>>
                      On Thu, 31 Aug 2006, Martin Votruba wrote:

                      >
                      > A) Nech sa paci. = Here you are. (take it)
                      >
                      > B) Nech sa paci. = Help yourself. (food); Go ahead. (do it)
                      >
                      > C) Nech sa paci. = After you. (at the door)
                      >
                      > Our students learn always to say _nech sa paci_, in all the uses, with
                      > that movement of their arms. It helps bridge what initially appear to
                      > be 3-4 disparate meanings. The underlying common meaning is "enabling
                      > another person" in 3-4 specific modifications.


                      I heard it used at a bank for the equivalent of "Next, please" while in
                      line to exchange money. Kind of threw me off at first. It's little things
                      like this that make the difference between looking like a fool and being
                      enlightened.

                      I've been learning a bit of Russian, and they have a catch-all word/phrase
                      that seems to do the same thing as "nech sa paci". It's transliterated
                      as "pozhaluista", sounding like 'pah-ZHA-lis-ta'. Seems to be used for
                      "help yourself", "please", "excuse me", "here you are" etc.

                      Learning Russian after teaching myself Slovak has been quite fun. The
                      similaries are enough I can guess basic words and some grammar, though I
                      think I confuse my Russian teacher. I sure as hell can confuse myself! :)


                      -S
                      still annoyed that Slovak isn't taught in any northern California
                      universities
                    • Martin Votruba
                      ... Yes. It s more typical of people providing a service because they need to say nech sa paci a lot so they reduce it and it has a bit of a casual ring to
                      Message 10 of 12 , Aug 31, 2006
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                        > Is "pac~i sa" simply a colloquial version?

                        Yes. It's more typical of people providing a service because they
                        need to say "nech sa paci" a lot so they reduce it and it has a bit of
                        a casual ring to it on their part but it can occur in private
                        conversation, too.


                        Martin

                        votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                      • Helen Fedor
                        I ve heard it at the embassy. H Helen Fedor European Division Library of Congress 10 E. First St., S.E. Washington, D.C. 20540-4830 tel. (202) 707-3704 fax
                        Message 11 of 12 , Aug 31, 2006
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                          I've heard it at the embassy.

                          H



                          Helen Fedor
                          European Division
                          Library of Congress
                          10 E. First St., S.E.
                          Washington, D.C. 20540-4830
                          tel. (202) 707-3704
                          fax (202) 707-8482
                          <hfed@...>
                          >>> votrubam@... 08/31/06 3:58 PM >>>
                          > Is "pac~i sa" simply a colloquial version?

                          Yes. It's more typical of people providing a service because they
                          need to say "nech sa paci" a lot so they reduce it and it has a bit of
                          a casual ring to it on their part but it can occur in private
                          conversation, too.


                          Martin

                          votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                        • andreialexiev
                          I agree with you,Helen, about the mobile stress in Russian.Furthermore, if you happen to speak Ukrainian or Belarusan, the exact same word in Russian might
                          Message 12 of 12 , Sep 6, 2006
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                            I agree with you,Helen, about the mobile stress in
                            Russian.Furthermore, if you happen to speak Ukrainian or Belarusan,
                            the exact same word in Russian might have adifferent stress.For
                            example, "water" in Russian is "vodA" in the nominative(though the
                            unstressed "o" is pronounced like an "a' and in belarusan the
                            equilvalant word will often be written with an "a" where "o" would
                            be used in Russian.But the accusative is "vOdu".However in Ukraian
                            it is both "vodA" and "vodU".Fr. Andrei')
                            is "please". The standard Russian phrase to invite someone to the
                            table is "Pozhaluista k stolu," lit.: Please to the table. There's
                            that movement towards food again. ;-) Just think of all the
                            different ways we use "please" in English.
                            >
                            > I learned Russian after knowing (Zemplin) Slovak. The mobile
                            stress drove me up the wall.
                            >
                            > H
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > >>> guerilla@... 08/31/06 2:20 PM >>>
                            > On Thu, 31 Aug 2006, Martin Votruba wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > > A) Nech sa paci. = Here you are. (take it)
                            > >
                            > > B) Nech sa paci. = Help yourself. (food); Go ahead. (do it)
                            > >
                            > > C) Nech sa paci. = After you. (at the door)
                            > >
                            > > Our students learn always to say _nech sa paci_, in all the
                            uses, with
                            > > that movement of their arms. It helps bridge what initially
                            appear to
                            > > be 3-4 disparate meanings. The underlying common meaning
                            is "enabling
                            > > another person" in 3-4 specific modifications.
                            >
                            >
                            > I heard it used at a bank for the equivalent of "Next, please"
                            while in
                            > line to exchange money. Kind of threw me off at first. It's
                            little things
                            > like this that make the difference between looking like a fool and
                            being
                            > enlightened.
                            >
                            > I've been learning a bit of Russian, and they have a catch-all
                            word/phrase
                            > that seems to do the same thing as "nech sa paci". It's
                            transliterated
                            > as "pozhaluista", sounding like 'pah-ZHA-lis-ta'. Seems to be
                            used for
                            > "help yourself", "please", "excuse me", "here you are" etc.
                            >
                            > Learning Russian after teaching myself Slovak has been quite fun.
                            The
                            > similaries are enough I can guess basic words and some grammar,
                            though I
                            > think I confuse my Russian teacher. I sure as hell can confuse
                            myself! :)
                            >
                            >
                            > -S
                            > still annoyed that Slovak isn't taught in any northern California
                            > universities
                            >
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