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[Slovak-World] Re: Lost Recipe

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  • Helen Fedor
    The Turkish connection is entirely possible. I know that we have several Turkish words in our dialect, including kalap (instead of klobuk) and teps~a
    Message 1 of 26 , Dec 1, 2005
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      The Turkish connection is entirely possible. I know that we have several Turkish words in our dialect, including "kalap" (instead of klobuk) and "teps~a" (instead of plecha).

      H




      >>> votrubam@... 12/01/05 2:38 AM >>>
      > Can we get you to come to our Sv. Mikulas party
      > and make them?????????

      Ehmmm... all booked up. 8-) Have a great party. I wonder whether
      your cousin puts in more ingredients. Lokse are considered "really
      local" in south-western Slovakia. They're especially typical of the
      late fall feasts when they're served with goose or duck. Of course,
      since they're made of potatoes, they cannot be older than about 200
      years, probably less than that.

      The word is in several languages in the region and may have come via a
      Turkish dialect during the wars in the 16th-17th centuries, i.e., long
      before potatoes became common in Central Europe. Before the word
      acquired its contemporary Slovak meaning, it may have indicated a dish
      made of soaked pieces of bread, along the lines Greg's site describes it.

      http://www.iarelative.com/recipe/loska.htm

      Its everyday version was probably simpler.


      Martin

      votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu






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    • Martin Votruba
      ... They are used in other Slovak dialects, too (also: t~aps~a). Both exist in Hungarian in the same meaning and probably reached Slovak from Hungarian.
      Message 2 of 26 , Dec 1, 2005
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        > Turkish words in our dialect, including "kalap"
        > (instead of klobuk) and "teps~a"

        They are used in other Slovak dialects, too (also: t~aps~a). Both
        exist in Hungarian in the same meaning and probably reached Slovak
        from Hungarian. Loksa, too, probably came through another language,
        not directly from a Turkish dialect (but it's not quite clear that
        that's the origin).

        I know it's _tepsi_ both in Hungarian and Turkish; and _kalap_, "hat,"
        in Hungarian. What Turkish word did _kalap_ come from?

        BTW, _c~iapka_, "hat," is from Turkish via Hungarian (the word means
        "hat" and is pronounced [shapka] both in Hungarian and Turkish).


        Martin

        votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
      • Helen Fedor
        I finally reached our Turkish area specialist here at LC. He says that modern Turkish uses a word pronounced sha-PO (from the French chapeau ) for hat,
        Message 3 of 26 , Dec 1, 2005
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          I finally reached our Turkish area specialist here at LC. He says that modern Turkish uses a word pronounced "sha-PO" (from the French "chapeau") for hat, although Turkish has "kal-PAK" (just like the Russians) for a special kind of fur hat. It comes from somewhere in Asia.

          I asked him about loks~a and he said that there's a word pronounced "LAH-ma-dzhan" in Turkish that's a type of pancake traditionally served with ground meat on it.

          H




          >>> votrubam@... 12/01/05 10:49 AM >>>
          > Turkish words in our dialect, including "kalap"
          > (instead of klobuk) and "teps~a"

          They are used in other Slovak dialects, too (also: t~aps~a). Both
          exist in Hungarian in the same meaning and probably reached Slovak
          from Hungarian. Loksa, too, probably came through another language,
          not directly from a Turkish dialect (but it's not quite clear that
          that's the origin).

          I know it's _tepsi_ both in Hungarian and Turkish; and _kalap_, "hat,"
          in Hungarian. What Turkish word did _kalap_ come from?

          BTW, _c~iapka_, "hat," is from Turkish via Hungarian (the word means
          "hat" and is pronounced [shapka] both in Hungarian and Turkish).


          Martin

          votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





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        • Martin Votruba
          ... Thank you very much for all of that, Helen. It s very useful. There actually is a Turkish word _s,apka_ (I checked a dictionary) while I didn t find
          Message 4 of 26 , Dec 1, 2005
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            > He says that modern Turkish uses a word pronounced "sha-PO"
            > (from the French "chapeau") for hat, although Turkish
            > has "kal-PAK" (just like the Russians) for a special kind
            > of fur hat. It comes from somewhere in Asia.
            >
            > I asked him about loks~a and he said that there's a word
            > pronounced "LAH-ma-dzhan" in Turkish that's a type of
            > pancake traditionally served with ground meat on it.


            Thank you very much for all of that, Helen. It's very useful. There
            actually is a Turkish word _s,apka_ (I checked a dictionary) while I
            didn't find _s,[h]apo_, but I wouldn't be surprised if both were a
            version of the French word. That origin of the word seems more
            plausible to me given its spread in the Slavic languages -- why would
            Czech and Polish pick a word for "hat" from Turkish?

            I wouldn't be surprised if there were a link between loksa and the
            Turkish word (I don't see anything similar in the dictionary, I took
            account of the spelling -- [dzh] is spelled _c_ in Turkish, and tried
            several variations). Etymologists say there is/was a regional
            north-Turkish word _laks,a_ that may have come from Persian. So the
            speculations about the origin of _loksa_ are rather tentative.


            Martin

            votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
          • Helen Fedor
            Yes, Chris did mention _s,apka_. For the pancake, he mentioned a Persian word (can t remember what it was), but said that it didn t even show up in his
            Message 5 of 26 , Dec 1, 2005
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              Yes, Chris did mention _s,apka_. For the pancake, he mentioned a Persian word (can't remember what it was), but said that it didn't even show up in his dictionary.

              H




              >>> votrubam@... 12/01/05 2:46 PM >>>
              > He says that modern Turkish uses a word pronounced "sha-PO"
              > (from the French "chapeau") for hat, although Turkish
              > has "kal-PAK" (just like the Russians) for a special kind
              > of fur hat. It comes from somewhere in Asia.
              >
              > I asked him about loks~a and he said that there's a word
              > pronounced "LAH-ma-dzhan" in Turkish that's a type of
              > pancake traditionally served with ground meat on it.


              Thank you very much for all of that, Helen. It's very useful. There
              actually is a Turkish word _s,apka_ (I checked a dictionary) while I
              didn't find _s,[h]apo_, but I wouldn't be surprised if both were a
              version of the French word. That origin of the word seems more
              plausible to me given its spread in the Slavic languages -- why would
              Czech and Polish pick a word for "hat" from Turkish?

              I wouldn't be surprised if there were a link between loksa and the
              Turkish word (I don't see anything similar in the dictionary, I took
              account of the spelling -- [dzh] is spelled _c_ in Turkish, and tried
              several variations). Etymologists say there is/was a regional
              north-Turkish word _laks,a_ that may have come from Persian. So the
              speculations about the origin of _loksa_ are rather tentative.


              Martin

              votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





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            • Tom Flynn
              Thanks for the recipe, Martin. One of our relatives in Zemplinska Teplica (about 30 km east of Kosice) made Loks~e for us at their home...we enjoyed them very
              Message 6 of 26 , Dec 2, 2005
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                Thanks for the recipe, Martin.

                One of our relatives in Zemplinska Teplica (about 30 km east of Kosice)
                made Loks~e for us at their home...we enjoyed them very much. The day
                before we took them on a driving trip, and on the return, they made a
                point of stopping at a particular place near Levoca to collect some
                drinking water from a spot where water was coming down from the mountain,
                which they served with the Loks~e the next day. (we were under the
                impression that drinking the water had something to do with the Loks~e, maybe
                tradition?). Anyway, according to my Mother, my Grandfather used to do
                also collect water from a particular spring when he lived in Pennsylvania,
                though I don't think she was familiar with Loks~e, just enjoyed the spring
                water.

                On Wed, 30 Nov 2005, Martin Votruba wrote:

                > Loks~e (singular: loks~a) are potato pancakes. Boil about a
                > pound-pound and a half of potatoes, mash them, mix in 3-5 ounces of
                > flour when cold, add salt. Make pancakes (on a board dusted with
                > flour), fry them without fat. When finished, brush them lighlty with
                > some fat (melted goose lard is considered best for lokse in Slovakia,
                > melted butter or oil might work).
                >
                > http://img.bleskovky.sk/lesk/big/32970.jpg/mastene_lokse.jpg
                >
                >
                > Martin
                >
                > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >

                ---------
                Tom Flynn
                I speak only for myself
              • Martin Votruba
                ... It was probably Siva brada (Gray Beard), Tom, quite well known in the region. There are several springs with naturally carbonated mineral water there, and
                Message 7 of 26 , Dec 2, 2005
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                  > a particular place near Levoca to collect some drinking
                  > water from a spot where water was coming down from the mountain

                  It was probably Siva brada (Gray Beard), Tom, quite well known in the
                  region. There are several springs with naturally carbonated mineral
                  water there, and a small pool with a geyser (up to about 10 ft) near
                  the top of the small hill:

                  http://departments.fsv.cvut.cz/k135/ge10/galerie/jezirko.jpg

                  The geyser started rather recently and inadvertently after geologists
                  did some drilling there, but the mineral springs have been popular
                  with the locals for centuries. At the top is a baroque chapel
                  (Sva"ty' kri'z~, "Holy Cross") from 1675:

                  http://www.zsf.sk/index.php?act=soom&idf=157

                  Passing drivers often stop at a spring lower down to fill bottles and
                  bring them home. Slovakia has over 1,000 registered mineral and
                  thermal springs. People get water from them in many places,
                  especially if they're along a road, so I'd guess your stop there need
                  not have been connected with the loks~e.


                  Martin

                  votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                • krejc@aol.com
                  In a message dated 12/2/05 8:45:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Martin, the picture of the Chapel reminded me of the Crucifixion with the storm clouds
                  Message 8 of 26 , Dec 3, 2005
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                    In a message dated 12/2/05 8:45:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                    votrubam@... writes:

                    > http://www.zsf.sk/index.php?act=soom&idf=157

                    Martin,
                    the picture of the Chapel reminded me of the Crucifixion with the storm
                    clouds covering the hill and the cross standing alone.
                    Noreen


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Tom Flynn
                    ... Thank You, Martin, It might have been at the spring lower down (closer to the road) that we stopped...I remember being on that same road on a previous
                    Message 9 of 26 , Dec 5, 2005
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                      On Sat, 3 Dec 2005, Martin Votruba wrote:

                      > > a particular place near Levoca to collect some drinking
                      > > water from a spot where water was coming down from the mountain
                      >
                      > It was probably Siva brada (Gray Beard), Tom, quite well known in the
                      > region. There are several springs with naturally carbonated mineral
                      > water there, and a small pool with a geyser (up to about 10 ft) near
                      > the top of the small hill:
                      >
                      > http://departments.fsv.cvut.cz/k135/ge10/galerie/jezirko.jpg
                      >
                      > The geyser started rather recently and inadvertently after geologists
                      > did some drilling there, but the mineral springs have been popular
                      > with the locals for centuries. At the top is a baroque chapel
                      > (Sva"ty' kri'z~, "Holy Cross") from 1675:
                      >
                      > http://www.zsf.sk/index.php?act=soom&idf=157
                      >
                      > Passing drivers often stop at a spring lower down to fill bottles and
                      > bring them home. Slovakia has over 1,000 registered mineral and
                      > thermal springs. People get water from them in many places,
                      > especially if they're along a road, so I'd guess your stop there need
                      > not have been connected with the loks~e.
                      >
                      >
                      > Martin
                      >
                      > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                      >
                      Thank You, Martin,

                      It might have been at the spring lower down (closer to the road) that we
                      stopped...I remember being on that same road on a previous trip, but never
                      noticed the springs. Maybe it didn't have anything to do with the loks~e,
                      or maybe it was just a local (or even family) thing. I didn't recognize
                      the geyser nor the chapel, but we didn't stay long, just enough to fill
                      the bottles.

                      My grandfather continued the "habit" of filling up water bottles after he
                      moved to the US...but I'm not sure where he would have filled them up in
                      Slovakia, since Levoca would have been very far (by horse or other
                      conveyance, since I'm sure he didn't have access to car or maybe even bus
                      in early 20th century before he came to the US). The town he came from
                      was named for the "hot" springs, though it seems that they were mostly
                      used for washing/laundry rather than drinking...but as you mention, there
                      are many places people found mineral water in Slovakia, perhaps he went to
                      the next town over (Slanec), a more hilly area where I'd guess they'd be
                      likely to find spring water.

                      ---------
                      Tom Flynn
                      I speak only for myself
                    • Helen Fedor
                      My family lives near Slanec (my father s family came from Slanske Nove Mesto), in a little village that has a spring (comes out of a pipe in a little cement
                      Message 10 of 26 , Dec 5, 2005
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                        My family lives near Slanec (my father's family came from Slanske Nove Mesto), in a little village that has a spring (comes out of a pipe in a little cement wall). My cousin's wife said that they use their "plumbed" water for cooking, washing, etc., but that she bikes down to the spring with a few plastic jugs to get the spring water for drinking.

                        H



                        >>> trflynn@... 12/05/05 9:22 AM >>>
                        On Sat, 3 Dec 2005, Martin Votruba wrote:

                        > > a particular place near Levoca to collect some drinking
                        > > water from a spot where water was coming down from the mountain
                        >
                        > It was probably Siva brada (Gray Beard), Tom, quite well known in the
                        > region. There are several springs with naturally carbonated mineral
                        > water there, and a small pool with a geyser (up to about 10 ft) near
                        > the top of the small hill:
                        >
                        > http://departments.fsv.cvut.cz/k135/ge10/galerie/jezirko.jpg
                        >
                        > The geyser started rather recently and inadvertently after geologists
                        > did some drilling there, but the mineral springs have been popular
                        > with the locals for centuries. At the top is a baroque chapel
                        > (Sva"ty' kri'z~, "Holy Cross") from 1675:
                        >
                        > http://www.zsf.sk/index.php?act=soom&idf=157
                        >
                        > Passing drivers often stop at a spring lower down to fill bottles and
                        > bring them home. Slovakia has over 1,000 registered mineral and
                        > thermal springs. People get water from them in many places,
                        > especially if they're along a road, so I'd guess your stop there need
                        > not have been connected with the loks~e.
                        >
                        >
                        > Martin
                        >
                        > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                        >
                        Thank You, Martin,

                        It might have been at the spring lower down (closer to the road) that we
                        stopped...I remember being on that same road on a previous trip, but never
                        noticed the springs. Maybe it didn't have anything to do with the loks~e,
                        or maybe it was just a local (or even family) thing. I didn't recognize
                        the geyser nor the chapel, but we didn't stay long, just enough to fill
                        the bottles.

                        My grandfather continued the "habit" of filling up water bottles after he
                        moved to the US...but I'm not sure where he would have filled them up in
                        Slovakia, since Levoca would have been very far (by horse or other
                        conveyance, since I'm sure he didn't have access to car or maybe even bus
                        in early 20th century before he came to the US). The town he came from
                        was named for the "hot" springs, though it seems that they were mostly
                        used for washing/laundry rather than drinking...but as you mention, there
                        are many places people found mineral water in Slovakia, perhaps he went to
                        the next town over (Slanec), a more hilly area where I'd guess they'd be
                        likely to find spring water.

                        ---------
                        Tom Flynn
                        I speak only for myself


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                      • Martin Votruba
                        ... Yes, Tom, the mineral spring is quite well known today because it s on the main route between Bratislava and Presov/Kosice, under 10 miles east of Levoca
                        Message 11 of 26 , Dec 5, 2005
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                          > It might have been at the spring lower down (closer to the
                          > road) that we stopped...I remember being on that same road
                          > on a previous trip

                          Yes, Tom, the mineral spring is quite well known today because it's on
                          the main route between Bratislava and Presov/Kosice, under 10 miles
                          east of Levoca near Spis Castle. And indeed, you cannot see the
                          chapel and new-fangled geyser from the spring where passers-by get the
                          water, you'd have to climb about 160 ft. One of Slovakia's most
                          popular mineral waters comes from the village of Baldovce only 2 miles
                          away. They started bottling and selling it about 200 years ago.

                          The warm springs at your ancestral Teplica are mineralized, too, but
                          people have traditionally not been too enthusiastic about warm springs
                          when they wanted drinking water. The name of the nearby _Slanec_ that
                          you mention is related to "salt/salty" and indicated springs and
                          places where people would make salt by boiling mineralized water (a
                          slanec could also be the person who did it). Thee were plans for
                          Kosice to tap the geothermal water in the region for central heating,
                          but I don't know how far the project has progressed, if at all.


                          Martin

                          votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                        • Tom Flynn
                          ... Thank you, Helen, that s probably where he went for water (somehow I thought there d be a spring in Slanec, without having gone there, though we passed it
                          Message 12 of 26 , Dec 5, 2005
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                            On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, Helen Fedor wrote:

                            > My family lives near Slanec (my father's family came from Slanske Nove Mesto), in a little village that has a spring (comes out of a pipe in a little cement wall). My cousin's wife said that they use their "plumbed" water for cooking, washing, etc., but that she bikes down to the spring with a few plastic jugs to get the spring water for drinking.
                            >
                            > H
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > >>> trflynn@... 12/05/05 9:22 AM >>>
                            Thank you, Helen, that's probably where he went for water (somehow I
                            thought there'd be a spring in Slanec, without having gone there, though we
                            passed it on the road to Zemplinska Teplica from Kosice)
                            I have a "cousin" (my Grandfather's brother's Great Grandson) whose Mother
                            is from Slanec, unfortunately, I don't know her maiden name. The "cousin"
                            stayed with us for 4 months with his girlfriend (now wife) during the
                            summer between his 4th and 5th years at University, before he graduated, 2
                            years ago, where they worked for a local resturant. Not sure, but maybe
                            other people from Slanec (I know of some from Secovce) that we're somehow
                            related to.

                            ---------
                            Tom Flynn
                            I speak only for myself
                          • amiak27
                            Sorry Folks, I did not realize I was holding out on you. For natural water sprinngs in Slovakia go to
                            Message 13 of 26 , Dec 5, 2005
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                              Sorry Folks,

                              I did not realize I was holding out on you. For natural water
                              sprinngs in Slovakia go to
                              http://www.sazp.sk/slovak/struktura/ceev/DPZ/pramene/pramene.html#map
                              a and click on the region that interests you. Explore to find the
                              spring you want. When the page comes up you can chose a miltary or
                              a civilian detailed topo map showing the spring. This should answer
                              99% of your questions of where people went for natural spring water!

                              for the certified BEST water in Slovakia, go to Sulinky Pramen, by
                              the village of Sulin on the Poprad river.
                              http://www.sazp.sk/slovak/struktura/ceev/DPZ/pramene/sl/pv-70a.html

                              If you need a translation of the minerals and other goodies Mother
                              Nature puts in the water for you, go to
                              http://www.sazp.sk/slovak/struktura/ceev/DPZ/pramene/slovnika.html

                              Nazdravie!

                              Ron

                              --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Tom Flynn <trflynn@c...> wrote:
                              >
                              > On Sat, 3 Dec 2005, Martin Votruba wrote:
                              >
                              > > > a particular place near Levoca to collect some drinking
                              > > > water from a spot where water was coming down from the mountain
                              > > It was probably Siva brada (Gray Beard), Tom, quite well known
                              in the region. There are several springs with naturally carbonated
                              mineral water there, and a small pool with a geyser (up to about 10
                              ft) near the top of the small hill:
                              > >
                              > > http://departments.fsv.cvut.cz/k135/ge10/galerie/jezirko.jpg
                              > >
                              > > The geyser started rather recently and inadvertently after
                              geologists
                              > > did some drilling there, but the mineral springs have been
                              popular
                              > > with the locals for centuries. At the top is a baroque chapel
                              > > (Sva"ty' kri'z~, "Holy Cross") from 1675:
                              > >
                              > > http://www.zsf.sk/index.php?act=soom&idf=157
                              > >
                              > > Passing drivers often stop at a spring lower down to fill
                              bottles and
                              > > bring them home. Slovakia has over 1,000 registered mineral and
                              > > thermal springs. People get water from them in many places,
                              > > especially if they're along a road, so I'd guess your stop there
                              need
                              > > not have been connected with the loks~e.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Martin
                              > >
                              > > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                              > >
                              > Thank You, Martin,
                              >
                              > It might have been at the spring lower down (closer to the road)
                              that we
                              > stopped...I remember being on that same road on a previous trip,
                              but never
                              > noticed the springs. Maybe it didn't have anything to do with the
                              loks~e,
                              > or maybe it was just a local (or even family) thing. I didn't
                              recognize
                              > the geyser nor the chapel, but we didn't stay long, just enough to
                              fill
                              > the bottles.
                              >
                              > My grandfather continued the "habit" of filling up water bottles
                              after he
                              > moved to the US...but I'm not sure where he would have filled them
                              up in
                              > Slovakia, since Levoca would have been very far (by horse or other
                              > conveyance, since I'm sure he didn't have access to car or maybe
                              even bus
                              > in early 20th century before he came to the US). The town he came
                              from
                              > was named for the "hot" springs, though it seems that they were
                              mostly
                              > used for washing/laundry rather than drinking...but as you
                              mention, there
                              > are many places people found mineral water in Slovakia, perhaps he
                              went to
                              > the next town over (Slanec), a more hilly area where I'd guess
                              they'd be
                              > likely to find spring water.
                              >
                              > ---------
                              > Tom Flynn
                              > I speak only for myself
                              >
                            • Martin Votruba
                              http://www.sazp.sk/slovak/struktura/ceev/DPZ/pramene/pramene.html#map That s a useful site, Ron (clever that you got the URL although they use frames). The
                              Message 14 of 26 , Dec 6, 2005
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                                http://www.sazp.sk/slovak/struktura/ceev/DPZ/pramene/pramene.html#map

                                That's a useful site, Ron (clever that you got the URL although they
                                use frames). The springs are registered under the names of the
                                villages on whose territory they are, which is not necessarily the
                                same as the name under which they are known. The springs at Siva
                                brada are in the "Levoca" section, under "Baldovce SNV - 4" through
                                "Baldovce SNV - 9." The one most people stop by is SNV-4 called Sv.
                                Ondrej (St. Andrew).

                                Unlike in the US, all of Slovakia's territory is divided among
                                villages, boroughs, and towns (which is the case in the rest of
                                Central Europe, too). The counties have no territory under their
                                control. Land features that belong to a village can be quite far from
                                it if its territory is large. Some villages own mountains, etc.


                                Martin

                                votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                              • Helen Fedor
                                Sorry, I was less than fully clear. While my father comes from from Slanske Nove Mesto, my mother s family comes from about 3 miles away, Male Ozorovce, which
                                Message 15 of 26 , Dec 6, 2005
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                                  Sorry, I was less than fully clear. While my father comes from from Slanske Nove Mesto, my mother's family comes from about 3 miles away, Male Ozorovce, which is where the spring is. MO is not far from Sec~ovce: if you take the road from Kos~ice to Sec~ovce, just as you get into Sec~ovce, you take a right and go down that road. The first village is Zbehn~ov (my mother's father came from there), then there's a tiny Roma settlement (doesn't have a name), then there's MO. A cousin on my mother's side married a fellow from Sec~ovce with the last name of Tirpak. Ring any bells?

                                  H



                                  >>> trflynn@... 12/05/05 7:01 PM >>>
                                  On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, Helen Fedor wrote:

                                  > My family lives near Slanec (my father's family came from Slanske Nove Mesto), in a little village that has a spring (comes out of a pipe in a little cement wall). My cousin's wife said that they use their "plumbed" water for cooking, washing, etc., but that she bikes down to the spring with a few plastic jugs to get the spring water for drinking.
                                  >
                                  > H
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > >>> trflynn@... 12/05/05 9:22 AM >>>
                                  Thank you, Helen, that's probably where he went for water (somehow I
                                  thought there'd be a spring in Slanec, without having gone there, though we
                                  passed it on the road to Zemplinska Teplica from Kosice)
                                  I have a "cousin" (my Grandfather's brother's Great Grandson) whose Mother
                                  is from Slanec, unfortunately, I don't know her maiden name. The "cousin"
                                  stayed with us for 4 months with his girlfriend (now wife) during the
                                  summer between his 4th and 5th years at University, before he graduated, 2
                                  years ago, where they worked for a local resturant. Not sure, but maybe
                                  other people from Slanec (I know of some from Secovce) that we're somehow
                                  related to.

                                  ---------
                                  Tom Flynn
                                  I speak only for myself


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                                • Tom Flynn
                                  ... Thank You, Martin, Thinking about it now, I guess that if there was a source of mineral water closer to their town, they would have gotten it there
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Dec 8, 2005
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                                    On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, Martin Votruba wrote:

                                    > > It might have been at the spring lower down (closer to the
                                    > > road) that we stopped...I remember being on that same road
                                    > > on a previous trip
                                    >
                                    > Yes, Tom, the mineral spring is quite well known today because it's on
                                    > the main route between Bratislava and Presov/Kosice, under 10 miles
                                    > east of Levoca near Spis Castle. And indeed, you cannot see the
                                    > chapel and new-fangled geyser from the spring where passers-by get the
                                    > water, you'd have to climb about 160 ft. One of Slovakia's most
                                    > popular mineral waters comes from the village of Baldovce only 2 miles
                                    > away. They started bottling and selling it about 200 years ago.
                                    >
                                    > The warm springs at your ancestral Teplica are mineralized, too, but
                                    > people have traditionally not been too enthusiastic about warm springs
                                    > when they wanted drinking water. The name of the nearby _Slanec_ that
                                    > you mention is related to "salt/salty" and indicated springs and
                                    > places where people would make salt by boiling mineralized water (a
                                    > slanec could also be the person who did it). Thee were plans for
                                    > Kosice to tap the geothermal water in the region for central heating,
                                    > but I don't know how far the project has progressed, if at all.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Martin
                                    >
                                    > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                                    Thank You, Martin,

                                    Thinking about it now, I guess that if there was a source of mineral water
                                    closer to their town, they would have gotten it there instead...I didn't
                                    realize that the water at Slanec was salty (and also warm, as it is in
                                    Zemplinska Teplica)
                                    ---------
                                    Tom Flynn
                                    I speak only for myself
                                  • Matchett
                                    The best spring water I ever tasted was in Marianka where there s a shrine and grotto to Mary. My cousin told me to bring a bottle as we were going there for
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Dec 9, 2005
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                                      The best spring water I ever tasted was in Marianka where there's a
                                      shrine and grotto to Mary. My cousin told me to bring a bottle as we
                                      were going there for Mass. I was thinking holy water and had a little
                                      bottle! He laughed and gave me a big bottle. When we got there I saw
                                      people lined up with jugs and bicycle riders filling up their water
                                      bottles.

                                      I had been there with my mother in 1982 and not many people were there.
                                      I was told there was just one old priest. I didn't see the spring at
                                      the time. Now, the seminary there has several candidates for the
                                      priesthood and there are many booths selling religious articles.
                                      Helene's tour stopped there in 2000 and the church was being restored.

                                      When I was there in '02 for Mass (and got the water), the church was
                                      overflowing with people and rows of chairs set up outside. It is one
                                      of my favorite places to visit and recall my mother's many stories of
                                      processions there from her home in Zahorska Bystrica.

                                      Julia Matchett

                                      On Thursday, December 8, 2005, at 01:37 PM, Tom Flynn wrote:

                                      > On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, Martin Votruba wrote:
                                      >
                                      >>> It might have been at the spring lower down (closer to the
                                      >>> road) that we stopped...I remember being on that same road
                                      >>> on a previous trip
                                      >>
                                      >> Yes, Tom, the mineral spring is quite well known today because it's on
                                      >> the main route between Bratislava and Presov/Kosice, under 10 miles
                                      >> east of Levoca near Spis Castle. And indeed, you cannot see the
                                      >> chapel and new-fangled geyser from the spring where passers-by get the
                                      >> water, you'd have to climb about 160 ft. One of Slovakia's most
                                      >> popular mineral waters comes from the village of Baldovce only 2 miles
                                      >> away. They started bottling and selling it about 200 years ago.
                                      >>
                                      >> The warm springs at your ancestral Teplica are mineralized, too, but
                                      >> people have traditionally not been too enthusiastic about warm springs
                                      >> when they wanted drinking water. The name of the nearby _Slanec_ that
                                      >> you mention is related to "salt/salty" and indicated springs and
                                      >> places where people would make salt by boiling mineralized water (a
                                      >> slanec could also be the person who did it). Thee were plans for
                                      >> Kosice to tap the geothermal water in the region for central heating,
                                      >> but I don't know how far the project has progressed, if at all.
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >> Martin
                                      >>
                                      >> votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                                      > Thank You, Martin,
                                      >
                                      > Thinking about it now, I guess that if there was a source of mineral
                                      > water
                                      > closer to their town, they would have gotten it there instead...I
                                      > didn't
                                      > realize that the water at Slanec was salty (and also warm, as it is in
                                      > Zemplinska Teplica)
                                      > ---------
                                      > Tom Flynn
                                      > I speak only for myself
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • Fred G Kovalyak
                                      Has anyone drank the Spring water at the top of the hill in Sarriske Circ, near Stara Lubova ? The waters are said to have Healing Powers I heard a story
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Dec 9, 2005
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                                        Has anyone drank the Spring water at the top of the hill in
                                        Sarriske Circ, near Stara Lubova ?

                                        The waters are said to have "Healing Powers"
                                        I heard a story from my Cousin that her Grandmother was one
                                        of 4 Shepard children that on the hill in the 1800's, and was told the Virgin Mary
                                        had recently stood where they were sitting
                                        ...... that a "spring" will come forth.

                                        The children were frightened and ran down the hill to tell the
                                        Priest. He and others went up the hill and Discovered the NEW
                                        Spring !!!
                                        People frequently walk up hill for the waters ..... they built a Chapel there
                                        and hold their Otpost at that site each year. Many Pilgrims visit the site each
                                        year.

                                        I was there in 2001, drank alot of water and gave it to my
                                        80+ Relatives. Hope to Return during OTPOST.

                                        F G Kovalyak
                                        Columbia,Md.

                                        --- Matchett <wmatchett@...> wrote:

                                        > The best spring water I ever tasted was in Marianka where there's a
                                        > shrine and grotto to Mary. My cousin told me to bring a bottle as we
                                        > were going there for Mass. I was thinking holy water and had a little
                                        > bottle! He laughed and gave me a big bottle. When we got there I saw
                                        > people lined up with jugs and bicycle riders filling up their water
                                        > bottles.
                                        >
                                        > I had been there with my mother in 1982 and not many people were there.
                                        > I was told there was just one old priest. I didn't see the spring at
                                        > the time. Now, the seminary there has several candidates for the
                                        > priesthood and there are many booths selling religious articles.
                                        > Helene's tour stopped there in 2000 and the church was being restored.
                                        >
                                        > When I was there in '02 for Mass (and got the water), the church was
                                        > overflowing with people and rows of chairs set up outside. It is one
                                        > of my favorite places to visit and recall my mother's many stories of
                                        > processions there from her home in Zahorska Bystrica.
                                        >
                                        > Julia Matchett


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