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Re: Where people fall off cliffs

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  • raybravo2000
    These people in Slovakia, are we sure they fell or were they pushed? Colin ... falling ... 6th ... per-capita
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 2, 2005
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      These people in Slovakia, are we sure they fell or were they
      pushed?
      Colin

      --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Martin Votruba
      <votrubam@y...> wrote:
      > Does anyone keep track of how many people die as a result of
      falling
      > off a cliff or a mountain rock face? Yes, and Slovakia has the
      6th
      > highest per-capita rate in the world. It's outranked by 4 other
      > mountainous countries and by the island of Malta with craggy
      > coastlines. While people die falling off cliffs 6x more often in
      > Slovakia than in the US, about 50% fewer Slovaks (on a
      per-capita
      > basis) are murdered each year than Americans.
      >
      >
      > Martin
      >
      > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
    • amiak27
      In addition to specifics Martin can offer, I can add that the High Tatras have a reputation for lots of mountaineering accidents per capita. They are
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
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        In addition to specifics Martin can offer, I can add that the High
        Tatras have a reputation for lots of mountaineering accidents per
        capita. They are challenging mountains (I guess any mountains with
        a deadly reputation are by definition challenging) with a lot of
        semi-experienced people from flat and hilly land going off on hikes
        in the rocks. There is plenty of opportunity for simple mistakes,
        and there is no forgiveness built into the mountains. So a simple
        mistake can easily prove deadly.

        In Alaska European mountain climbers can be troublesome for their
        assuming that European mountains are as challenging as mountains in
        Alaska. It is the same as in the Tatras - they get in over their
        heads and sometimes die from the lesson.

        Make no mistake, there are plenty of highly qualified Euro
        mountaineers, but there are a lot of duffers out there as well, Euro
        and American. And some get killed. The Tatras draw a lot of
        people. The Alps are a long way off, the Tatras are a lot cheaper,
        and while the alpine Tatras (as opposed to rounded Carpathians,
        similar to the Appalachians) while the alpine mountains are compact
        and you are never too far from civilization, bad judgment and a
        false step can kill quickly.


        Ron

        --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "raybravo2000" <colinv@e...>
        wrote:
        > These people in Slovakia, are we sure they fell or were they
        > pushed?
        > Colin
        >
        > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Martin Votruba
        > <votrubam@y...> wrote:
        > > Does anyone keep track of how many people die as a result of
        > falling
        > > off a cliff or a mountain rock face? Yes, and Slovakia has the
        > 6th
        > > highest per-capita rate in the world. It's outranked by 4 other
        > > mountainous countries and by the island of Malta with craggy
        > > coastlines. While people die falling off cliffs 6x more often
        in
        > > Slovakia than in the US, about 50% fewer Slovaks (on a
        > per-capita
        > > basis) are murdered each year than Americans.
        > >
        > >
        > > Martin
        > >
        > > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
      • David
        Man, that had to be one strong Czech to run up a trail in the Tatras while carrying a keg of beer. I guess they don t have dogs to carry a flask of booze? I
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
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          Man, that had to be one strong Czech to run up a trail in the Tatras
          while carrying a keg of beer. I guess they don't have dogs to carry a
          flask of booze? I guess if you are going to die, you might as well
          die happy! (Joke) Every year, right here in the Delaware Water Gap,
          (PA and NJ State borders) people die each year while climbing these
          hills/mountains or whatever.
          The Happy Wonderer

          At 09:09 AM 10/3/2005, you wrote:

          >I once read of someone huffing and puffing up a trail in the Tatras and
          >having a group of Czechs run by him, one carrying a keg of beer.
          >Drinking doesn't help keep one steady. Julia M.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Matchett
          I once read of someone huffing and puffing up a trail in the Tatras and having a group of Czechs run by him, one carrying a keg of beer. Drinking doesn t help
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
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            I once read of someone huffing and puffing up a trail in the Tatras and
            having a group of Czechs run by him, one carrying a keg of beer.
            Drinking doesn't help keep one steady. Julia M.
          • gergely
            Yeah, but it makes the fall so much more pleasant. We don t have many death from people falling off cliffs here in cosatel Virginia. But we have our share of
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
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              Yeah, but it makes the fall so much more pleasant.

              We don't have many death from people falling off cliffs here in cosatel
              Virginia. But we have our share of people not making it back from boating
              excursions in bad weather or non-swimmers playing in rip tides. Probably
              not many deaths like that in the Tatras. Guess it all evens out in the end.

              Jack Gergely

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Matchett
              Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 7:39 AM
              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Where people fall off cliffs



              I once read of someone huffing and puffing up a trail in the Tatras and
              having a group of Czechs run by him, one carrying a keg of beer.
              Drinking doesn't help keep one steady. Julia M.





              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Martin Votruba
              ... That s funny, Jack. ... I think that s exactly it, Ron. The falls off cliffs do not happen when people hike on the trails in the Tatras. The trails are
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
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                > Yeah, but it makes the fall so much more pleasant.

                That's funny, Jack.

                > they get in over their heads and sometimes die from the lesson.

                I think that's exactly it, Ron. The "falls off cliffs" do not happen
                when people hike on the trails in the Tatras. The trails are quite
                safe. About the only accidents on the trails are twisted ankles and
                heart failures (but not at a higher rate than they happen anywhere).

                The casualties of the cliff falls are mainly dedicated, trained
                climbers (with ropes, etc.), plus a few casual hikers who decide to
                go off the trail and either try climbing for fun or begin to descend
                down a slope that appears to be a sloping meadow, but end up in
                difficult terrain.

                The "professional climbers" are almost all the victims. The casual
                hikers usually stay put before they cannot hold on any more, call for
                help, and are rescued. The climbers make "professional" mistakes,
                get hit by falling rocks, are swept down by waterfalls resulting from
                sudden downpours, etc.


                Martin
              • sandman6294
                ... and ... There could be several explanations for this enigma. Perhaps the keg was a handicap for the fastest runner. A more likely solution to the enigma
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
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                  --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Matchett <wmatchett@c...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I once read of someone huffing and puffing up a trail in the Tatras
                  and
                  > having a group of Czechs run by him, one carrying a keg of beer.
                  > Drinking doesn't help keep one steady. Julia M.

                  There could be several explanations for this enigma. Perhaps the keg
                  was a handicap for the fastest runner. A more likely solution to the
                  enigma would be that the runners were a keg relay team for the express
                  delivery of beer from the local brewery to a horska' chata. After all,
                  nothing was said about the consumption of beer on the trail. ;-)

                  RU
                • Scott T. Mikusko
                  ... The Pony Keg Express? ARGH!!! To boli ma! :) -S
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
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                    On Mon, 3 Oct 2005, sandman6294 wrote:

                    > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Matchett <wmatchett@c...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I once read of someone huffing and puffing up a trail in the Tatras
                    > and
                    > > having a group of Czechs run by him, one carrying a keg of beer.
                    > > Drinking doesn't help keep one steady. Julia M.
                    >
                    > There could be several explanations for this enigma. Perhaps the keg
                    > was a handicap for the fastest runner. A more likely solution to the
                    > enigma would be that the runners were a keg relay team for the express
                    > delivery of beer from the local brewery to a horska' chata. After all,
                    > nothing was said about the consumption of beer on the trail. ;-)
                    >

                    The Pony Keg Express?

                    ARGH!!! To boli ma! :)

                    -S
                  • sandman6294
                    ... Tatras ... keg ... the ... express ... After all, ... On the other hand, perhaps it would behoove us as good citizens to notify the locals: Police Search
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
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                      --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Scott T. Mikusko"
                      <guerilla@s...> wrote:
                      > On Mon, 3 Oct 2005, sandman6294 wrote:
                      >
                      > > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Matchett <wmatchett@c...>
                      wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > I once read of someone huffing and puffing up a trail in the
                      Tatras
                      > > and
                      > > > having a group of Czechs run by him, one carrying a keg of beer.
                      > > > Drinking doesn't help keep one steady. Julia M.
                      > >
                      > > There could be several explanations for this enigma. Perhaps the
                      keg
                      > > was a handicap for the fastest runner. A more likely solution to
                      the
                      > > enigma would be that the runners were a keg relay team for the
                      express
                      > > delivery of beer from the local brewery to a horska' chata.
                      After all,
                      > > nothing was said about the consumption of beer on the trail. ;-)
                      > >
                      >
                      > The Pony Keg Express?
                      >
                      > ARGH!!! To boli ma! :)
                      >
                      > -S

                      On the other hand, perhaps it would behoove us as good citizens to
                      notify the locals:

                      "Police Search For Pony Keg Robbers
                      WCPO.com is 9News, Cincinnati news"

                      RU
                    • Andrea Vangor
                      Some people know just enough to get themselves killed, like the half-dozen or so who die on our local volcanos every year. I remember seeing a television show
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
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                        Some people know just enough to get themselves killed, like the half-dozen or so who die on our local volcanos every year. I remember seeing a television show years and years ago, perhaps in the mid-80's. It was about people in then-Czechoslovakia using the hiking trails in the Tatry. You saw this endless line of people in regular clothes, ladies in dresses and so on, strolling sedately on the paths.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Martin Votruba
                        To: Slovak World
                        Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 9:52 AM
                        Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Where people fall off cliffs


                        > Yeah, but it makes the fall so much more pleasant.

                        That's funny, Jack.

                        > they get in over their heads and sometimes die from the lesson.

                        I think that's exactly it, Ron. The "falls off cliffs" do not happen
                        when people hike on the trails in the Tatras. The trails are quite
                        safe. About the only accidents on the trails are twisted ankles and
                        heart failures (but not at a higher rate than they happen anywhere).

                        The casualties of the cliff falls are mainly dedicated, trained
                        climbers (with ropes, etc.), plus a few casual hikers who decide to
                        go off the trail and either try climbing for fun or begin to descend
                        down a slope that appears to be a sloping meadow, but end up in
                        difficult terrain.

                        The "professional climbers" are almost all the victims. The casual
                        hikers usually stay put before they cannot hold on any more, call for
                        help, and are rescued. The climbers make "professional" mistakes,
                        get hit by falling rocks, are swept down by waterfalls resulting from
                        sudden downpours, etc.


                        Martin





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                      • sandman6294
                        ... trails in the Tatry. You saw this endless line of people in regular clothes, ladies in dresses and so on, strolling sedately on the paths. You can find
                        Message 11 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
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                          --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea Vangor" <drav@o...>
                          wrote:
                          > ......It was about people in then-Czechoslovakia using the hiking
                          trails in the Tatry. You saw this endless line of people in regular
                          clothes, ladies in dresses and so on, strolling sedately on the paths.

                          You can find that type of trail in our parks also but of course the
                          folks are in more casual clothing. The following is an excerpt from:

                          http://www.vysoketatry.org/guide/

                          "Experienced visitors in good condition may wish to attempt the more
                          demanding peaks, or a more direct approach to peaks which are
                          accessible by standard footpaths.

                          Badge-carrying, certified mountain guides are required for these
                          exacting and rewarding experiences."

                          There is also a link to hiking maps for the Tatras at this website.

                          RU
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