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Re: [Slovak-World] Where people fall off cliffs

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  • krejc@aol.com
    Martin, Our food is full of additives and chemicals and preservatives, we are bombarded with microwaves and other airwaves, and we live at a hectic and
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 2, 2005
      Martin,
      Our food is full of additives and chemicals and preservatives, we are
      bombarded with microwaves and other airwaves, and we live at a hectic and stressed
      pace that is not normal for a healthy mind. We take medication and seldom
      question the side effects.
      I have always believed that we should leave a tomato to be a tomato and not
      try to genetically engineer it to be something else. the same with any other
      food we modify.
      I think that this has a lot to do with our mental and physical well being in
      this country.
      As for the cliffs, that is a good question you present as to why it is that
      that Slovakia has the highest rate of deaths from people hiking up mountains.
      Noreen


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • J. Michutka
      ... OK, and I thought I was weird for tallying deaths by various diseases in my grandparents village in the 1890s..... ... Seriously, I wonder if they also
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 2, 2005
        At 01:25 AM 10/2/2005 -0400, you wrote:
        >Does anyone keep track of how many people die as a result of falling
        >off a cliff or a mountain rock face?


        OK, and I thought I was weird for tallying deaths by various diseases in my
        grandparents' village in the 1890s.....

        >Yes, and Slovakia has the 6th
        >highest per-capita rate in the world.

        Seriously, I wonder if they also have a very high per capita rate of
        hikers? Just as a country with more cars per capita is likely to have a
        higher rate of death in auto accidents than a country that is still
        economically challenged?

        Julie Michutka
        jmm@...
      • Martin Votruba
        ... I didn t ask that question, Noreen: I thought I answered it. I said the rate was the highest in mountainous countries. That was an explanation. People go
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 2, 2005
          > that is a good question you present as to why it is that
          > that Slovakia has the highest rate of deaths from people
          > hiking up mountains.

          I didn't ask that question, Noreen: I thought I answered it. I said
          the rate was the highest in mountainous countries.

          That was an explanation. People go climbing at a higher rate, as
          Julie said. And people fall off cliffs at a higher rate in Malta
          with (in relative terms to size and population) lots of craggy
          coastline. I didn't see anything puzzling there.


          > Our food is full of additives and chemicals and preservatives,
          > we are bombarded with microwaves and other airwaves, and we
          > live at a hectic and stressed pace that is not normal for a
          > healthy mind.

          That was incomparably more true for life under communism.


          Martin

          votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
        • raybravo2000
          These people in Slovakia, are we sure they fell or were they pushed? Colin ... falling ... 6th ... per-capita
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 2, 2005
            These people in Slovakia, are we sure they fell or were they
            pushed?
            Colin

            --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Martin Votruba
            <votrubam@y...> wrote:
            > Does anyone keep track of how many people die as a result of
            falling
            > off a cliff or a mountain rock face? Yes, and Slovakia has the
            6th
            > highest per-capita rate in the world. It's outranked by 4 other
            > mountainous countries and by the island of Malta with craggy
            > coastlines. While people die falling off cliffs 6x more often in
            > Slovakia than in the US, about 50% fewer Slovaks (on a
            per-capita
            > basis) are murdered each year than Americans.
            >
            >
            > Martin
            >
            > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
          • amiak27
            In addition to specifics Martin can offer, I can add that the High Tatras have a reputation for lots of mountaineering accidents per capita. They are
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
              In addition to specifics Martin can offer, I can add that the High
              Tatras have a reputation for lots of mountaineering accidents per
              capita. They are challenging mountains (I guess any mountains with
              a deadly reputation are by definition challenging) with a lot of
              semi-experienced people from flat and hilly land going off on hikes
              in the rocks. There is plenty of opportunity for simple mistakes,
              and there is no forgiveness built into the mountains. So a simple
              mistake can easily prove deadly.

              In Alaska European mountain climbers can be troublesome for their
              assuming that European mountains are as challenging as mountains in
              Alaska. It is the same as in the Tatras - they get in over their
              heads and sometimes die from the lesson.

              Make no mistake, there are plenty of highly qualified Euro
              mountaineers, but there are a lot of duffers out there as well, Euro
              and American. And some get killed. The Tatras draw a lot of
              people. The Alps are a long way off, the Tatras are a lot cheaper,
              and while the alpine Tatras (as opposed to rounded Carpathians,
              similar to the Appalachians) while the alpine mountains are compact
              and you are never too far from civilization, bad judgment and a
              false step can kill quickly.


              Ron

              --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "raybravo2000" <colinv@e...>
              wrote:
              > These people in Slovakia, are we sure they fell or were they
              > pushed?
              > Colin
              >
              > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Martin Votruba
              > <votrubam@y...> wrote:
              > > Does anyone keep track of how many people die as a result of
              > falling
              > > off a cliff or a mountain rock face? Yes, and Slovakia has the
              > 6th
              > > highest per-capita rate in the world. It's outranked by 4 other
              > > mountainous countries and by the island of Malta with craggy
              > > coastlines. While people die falling off cliffs 6x more often
              in
              > > Slovakia than in the US, about 50% fewer Slovaks (on a
              > per-capita
              > > basis) are murdered each year than Americans.
              > >
              > >
              > > Martin
              > >
              > > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
            • David
              Man, that had to be one strong Czech to run up a trail in the Tatras while carrying a keg of beer. I guess they don t have dogs to carry a flask of booze? I
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
                Man, that had to be one strong Czech to run up a trail in the Tatras
                while carrying a keg of beer. I guess they don't have dogs to carry a
                flask of booze? I guess if you are going to die, you might as well
                die happy! (Joke) Every year, right here in the Delaware Water Gap,
                (PA and NJ State borders) people die each year while climbing these
                hills/mountains or whatever.
                The Happy Wonderer

                At 09:09 AM 10/3/2005, you wrote:

                >I once read of someone huffing and puffing up a trail in the Tatras and
                >having a group of Czechs run by him, one carrying a keg of beer.
                >Drinking doesn't help keep one steady. Julia M.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Matchett
                I once read of someone huffing and puffing up a trail in the Tatras and having a group of Czechs run by him, one carrying a keg of beer. Drinking doesn t help
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
                  I once read of someone huffing and puffing up a trail in the Tatras and
                  having a group of Czechs run by him, one carrying a keg of beer.
                  Drinking doesn't help keep one steady. Julia M.
                • gergely
                  Yeah, but it makes the fall so much more pleasant. We don t have many death from people falling off cliffs here in cosatel Virginia. But we have our share of
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
                    Yeah, but it makes the fall so much more pleasant.

                    We don't have many death from people falling off cliffs here in cosatel
                    Virginia. But we have our share of people not making it back from boating
                    excursions in bad weather or non-swimmers playing in rip tides. Probably
                    not many deaths like that in the Tatras. Guess it all evens out in the end.

                    Jack Gergely

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Matchett
                    Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 7:39 AM
                    To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Where people fall off cliffs



                    I once read of someone huffing and puffing up a trail in the Tatras and
                    having a group of Czechs run by him, one carrying a keg of beer.
                    Drinking doesn't help keep one steady. Julia M.





                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • Martin Votruba
                    ... That s funny, Jack. ... I think that s exactly it, Ron. The falls off cliffs do not happen when people hike on the trails in the Tatras. The trails are
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
                      > Yeah, but it makes the fall so much more pleasant.

                      That's funny, Jack.

                      > they get in over their heads and sometimes die from the lesson.

                      I think that's exactly it, Ron. The "falls off cliffs" do not happen
                      when people hike on the trails in the Tatras. The trails are quite
                      safe. About the only accidents on the trails are twisted ankles and
                      heart failures (but not at a higher rate than they happen anywhere).

                      The casualties of the cliff falls are mainly dedicated, trained
                      climbers (with ropes, etc.), plus a few casual hikers who decide to
                      go off the trail and either try climbing for fun or begin to descend
                      down a slope that appears to be a sloping meadow, but end up in
                      difficult terrain.

                      The "professional climbers" are almost all the victims. The casual
                      hikers usually stay put before they cannot hold on any more, call for
                      help, and are rescued. The climbers make "professional" mistakes,
                      get hit by falling rocks, are swept down by waterfalls resulting from
                      sudden downpours, etc.


                      Martin
                    • sandman6294
                      ... and ... There could be several explanations for this enigma. Perhaps the keg was a handicap for the fastest runner. A more likely solution to the enigma
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
                        --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Matchett <wmatchett@c...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I once read of someone huffing and puffing up a trail in the Tatras
                        and
                        > having a group of Czechs run by him, one carrying a keg of beer.
                        > Drinking doesn't help keep one steady. Julia M.

                        There could be several explanations for this enigma. Perhaps the keg
                        was a handicap for the fastest runner. A more likely solution to the
                        enigma would be that the runners were a keg relay team for the express
                        delivery of beer from the local brewery to a horska' chata. After all,
                        nothing was said about the consumption of beer on the trail. ;-)

                        RU
                      • Scott T. Mikusko
                        ... The Pony Keg Express? ARGH!!! To boli ma! :) -S
                        Message 11 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
                          On Mon, 3 Oct 2005, sandman6294 wrote:

                          > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Matchett <wmatchett@c...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I once read of someone huffing and puffing up a trail in the Tatras
                          > and
                          > > having a group of Czechs run by him, one carrying a keg of beer.
                          > > Drinking doesn't help keep one steady. Julia M.
                          >
                          > There could be several explanations for this enigma. Perhaps the keg
                          > was a handicap for the fastest runner. A more likely solution to the
                          > enigma would be that the runners were a keg relay team for the express
                          > delivery of beer from the local brewery to a horska' chata. After all,
                          > nothing was said about the consumption of beer on the trail. ;-)
                          >

                          The Pony Keg Express?

                          ARGH!!! To boli ma! :)

                          -S
                        • sandman6294
                          ... Tatras ... keg ... the ... express ... After all, ... On the other hand, perhaps it would behoove us as good citizens to notify the locals: Police Search
                          Message 12 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
                            --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Scott T. Mikusko"
                            <guerilla@s...> wrote:
                            > On Mon, 3 Oct 2005, sandman6294 wrote:
                            >
                            > > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Matchett <wmatchett@c...>
                            wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > I once read of someone huffing and puffing up a trail in the
                            Tatras
                            > > and
                            > > > having a group of Czechs run by him, one carrying a keg of beer.
                            > > > Drinking doesn't help keep one steady. Julia M.
                            > >
                            > > There could be several explanations for this enigma. Perhaps the
                            keg
                            > > was a handicap for the fastest runner. A more likely solution to
                            the
                            > > enigma would be that the runners were a keg relay team for the
                            express
                            > > delivery of beer from the local brewery to a horska' chata.
                            After all,
                            > > nothing was said about the consumption of beer on the trail. ;-)
                            > >
                            >
                            > The Pony Keg Express?
                            >
                            > ARGH!!! To boli ma! :)
                            >
                            > -S

                            On the other hand, perhaps it would behoove us as good citizens to
                            notify the locals:

                            "Police Search For Pony Keg Robbers
                            WCPO.com is 9News, Cincinnati news"

                            RU
                          • Andrea Vangor
                            Some people know just enough to get themselves killed, like the half-dozen or so who die on our local volcanos every year. I remember seeing a television show
                            Message 13 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
                              Some people know just enough to get themselves killed, like the half-dozen or so who die on our local volcanos every year. I remember seeing a television show years and years ago, perhaps in the mid-80's. It was about people in then-Czechoslovakia using the hiking trails in the Tatry. You saw this endless line of people in regular clothes, ladies in dresses and so on, strolling sedately on the paths.
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Martin Votruba
                              To: Slovak World
                              Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 9:52 AM
                              Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Where people fall off cliffs


                              > Yeah, but it makes the fall so much more pleasant.

                              That's funny, Jack.

                              > they get in over their heads and sometimes die from the lesson.

                              I think that's exactly it, Ron. The "falls off cliffs" do not happen
                              when people hike on the trails in the Tatras. The trails are quite
                              safe. About the only accidents on the trails are twisted ankles and
                              heart failures (but not at a higher rate than they happen anywhere).

                              The casualties of the cliff falls are mainly dedicated, trained
                              climbers (with ropes, etc.), plus a few casual hikers who decide to
                              go off the trail and either try climbing for fun or begin to descend
                              down a slope that appears to be a sloping meadow, but end up in
                              difficult terrain.

                              The "professional climbers" are almost all the victims. The casual
                              hikers usually stay put before they cannot hold on any more, call for
                              help, and are rescued. The climbers make "professional" mistakes,
                              get hit by falling rocks, are swept down by waterfalls resulting from
                              sudden downpours, etc.


                              Martin





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                            • sandman6294
                              ... trails in the Tatry. You saw this endless line of people in regular clothes, ladies in dresses and so on, strolling sedately on the paths. You can find
                              Message 14 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
                                --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea Vangor" <drav@o...>
                                wrote:
                                > ......It was about people in then-Czechoslovakia using the hiking
                                trails in the Tatry. You saw this endless line of people in regular
                                clothes, ladies in dresses and so on, strolling sedately on the paths.

                                You can find that type of trail in our parks also but of course the
                                folks are in more casual clothing. The following is an excerpt from:

                                http://www.vysoketatry.org/guide/

                                "Experienced visitors in good condition may wish to attempt the more
                                demanding peaks, or a more direct approach to peaks which are
                                accessible by standard footpaths.

                                Badge-carrying, certified mountain guides are required for these
                                exacting and rewarding experiences."

                                There is also a link to hiking maps for the Tatras at this website.

                                RU
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