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Where people fall off cliffs

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  • Martin Votruba
    Does anyone keep track of how many people die as a result of falling off a cliff or a mountain rock face? Yes, and Slovakia has the 6th highest per-capita
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 1, 2005
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      Does anyone keep track of how many people die as a result of falling
      off a cliff or a mountain rock face? Yes, and Slovakia has the 6th
      highest per-capita rate in the world. It's outranked by 4 other
      mountainous countries and by the island of Malta with craggy
      coastlines. While people die falling off cliffs 6x more often in
      Slovakia than in the US, about 50% fewer Slovaks (on a per-capita
      basis) are murdered each year than Americans.


      Martin

      votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
    • krejc@aol.com
      Martin, Our food is full of additives and chemicals and preservatives, we are bombarded with microwaves and other airwaves, and we live at a hectic and
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 2, 2005
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        Martin,
        Our food is full of additives and chemicals and preservatives, we are
        bombarded with microwaves and other airwaves, and we live at a hectic and stressed
        pace that is not normal for a healthy mind. We take medication and seldom
        question the side effects.
        I have always believed that we should leave a tomato to be a tomato and not
        try to genetically engineer it to be something else. the same with any other
        food we modify.
        I think that this has a lot to do with our mental and physical well being in
        this country.
        As for the cliffs, that is a good question you present as to why it is that
        that Slovakia has the highest rate of deaths from people hiking up mountains.
        Noreen


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • J. Michutka
        ... OK, and I thought I was weird for tallying deaths by various diseases in my grandparents village in the 1890s..... ... Seriously, I wonder if they also
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 2, 2005
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          At 01:25 AM 10/2/2005 -0400, you wrote:
          >Does anyone keep track of how many people die as a result of falling
          >off a cliff or a mountain rock face?


          OK, and I thought I was weird for tallying deaths by various diseases in my
          grandparents' village in the 1890s.....

          >Yes, and Slovakia has the 6th
          >highest per-capita rate in the world.

          Seriously, I wonder if they also have a very high per capita rate of
          hikers? Just as a country with more cars per capita is likely to have a
          higher rate of death in auto accidents than a country that is still
          economically challenged?

          Julie Michutka
          jmm@...
        • Martin Votruba
          ... I didn t ask that question, Noreen: I thought I answered it. I said the rate was the highest in mountainous countries. That was an explanation. People go
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 2, 2005
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            > that is a good question you present as to why it is that
            > that Slovakia has the highest rate of deaths from people
            > hiking up mountains.

            I didn't ask that question, Noreen: I thought I answered it. I said
            the rate was the highest in mountainous countries.

            That was an explanation. People go climbing at a higher rate, as
            Julie said. And people fall off cliffs at a higher rate in Malta
            with (in relative terms to size and population) lots of craggy
            coastline. I didn't see anything puzzling there.


            > Our food is full of additives and chemicals and preservatives,
            > we are bombarded with microwaves and other airwaves, and we
            > live at a hectic and stressed pace that is not normal for a
            > healthy mind.

            That was incomparably more true for life under communism.


            Martin

            votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
          • raybravo2000
            These people in Slovakia, are we sure they fell or were they pushed? Colin ... falling ... 6th ... per-capita
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 2, 2005
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              These people in Slovakia, are we sure they fell or were they
              pushed?
              Colin

              --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Martin Votruba
              <votrubam@y...> wrote:
              > Does anyone keep track of how many people die as a result of
              falling
              > off a cliff or a mountain rock face? Yes, and Slovakia has the
              6th
              > highest per-capita rate in the world. It's outranked by 4 other
              > mountainous countries and by the island of Malta with craggy
              > coastlines. While people die falling off cliffs 6x more often in
              > Slovakia than in the US, about 50% fewer Slovaks (on a
              per-capita
              > basis) are murdered each year than Americans.
              >
              >
              > Martin
              >
              > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
            • amiak27
              In addition to specifics Martin can offer, I can add that the High Tatras have a reputation for lots of mountaineering accidents per capita. They are
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
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                In addition to specifics Martin can offer, I can add that the High
                Tatras have a reputation for lots of mountaineering accidents per
                capita. They are challenging mountains (I guess any mountains with
                a deadly reputation are by definition challenging) with a lot of
                semi-experienced people from flat and hilly land going off on hikes
                in the rocks. There is plenty of opportunity for simple mistakes,
                and there is no forgiveness built into the mountains. So a simple
                mistake can easily prove deadly.

                In Alaska European mountain climbers can be troublesome for their
                assuming that European mountains are as challenging as mountains in
                Alaska. It is the same as in the Tatras - they get in over their
                heads and sometimes die from the lesson.

                Make no mistake, there are plenty of highly qualified Euro
                mountaineers, but there are a lot of duffers out there as well, Euro
                and American. And some get killed. The Tatras draw a lot of
                people. The Alps are a long way off, the Tatras are a lot cheaper,
                and while the alpine Tatras (as opposed to rounded Carpathians,
                similar to the Appalachians) while the alpine mountains are compact
                and you are never too far from civilization, bad judgment and a
                false step can kill quickly.


                Ron

                --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "raybravo2000" <colinv@e...>
                wrote:
                > These people in Slovakia, are we sure they fell or were they
                > pushed?
                > Colin
                >
                > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Martin Votruba
                > <votrubam@y...> wrote:
                > > Does anyone keep track of how many people die as a result of
                > falling
                > > off a cliff or a mountain rock face? Yes, and Slovakia has the
                > 6th
                > > highest per-capita rate in the world. It's outranked by 4 other
                > > mountainous countries and by the island of Malta with craggy
                > > coastlines. While people die falling off cliffs 6x more often
                in
                > > Slovakia than in the US, about 50% fewer Slovaks (on a
                > per-capita
                > > basis) are murdered each year than Americans.
                > >
                > >
                > > Martin
                > >
                > > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
              • David
                Man, that had to be one strong Czech to run up a trail in the Tatras while carrying a keg of beer. I guess they don t have dogs to carry a flask of booze? I
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
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                  Man, that had to be one strong Czech to run up a trail in the Tatras
                  while carrying a keg of beer. I guess they don't have dogs to carry a
                  flask of booze? I guess if you are going to die, you might as well
                  die happy! (Joke) Every year, right here in the Delaware Water Gap,
                  (PA and NJ State borders) people die each year while climbing these
                  hills/mountains or whatever.
                  The Happy Wonderer

                  At 09:09 AM 10/3/2005, you wrote:

                  >I once read of someone huffing and puffing up a trail in the Tatras and
                  >having a group of Czechs run by him, one carrying a keg of beer.
                  >Drinking doesn't help keep one steady. Julia M.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Matchett
                  I once read of someone huffing and puffing up a trail in the Tatras and having a group of Czechs run by him, one carrying a keg of beer. Drinking doesn t help
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
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                    I once read of someone huffing and puffing up a trail in the Tatras and
                    having a group of Czechs run by him, one carrying a keg of beer.
                    Drinking doesn't help keep one steady. Julia M.
                  • gergely
                    Yeah, but it makes the fall so much more pleasant. We don t have many death from people falling off cliffs here in cosatel Virginia. But we have our share of
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
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                      Yeah, but it makes the fall so much more pleasant.

                      We don't have many death from people falling off cliffs here in cosatel
                      Virginia. But we have our share of people not making it back from boating
                      excursions in bad weather or non-swimmers playing in rip tides. Probably
                      not many deaths like that in the Tatras. Guess it all evens out in the end.

                      Jack Gergely

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Matchett
                      Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 7:39 AM
                      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Where people fall off cliffs



                      I once read of someone huffing and puffing up a trail in the Tatras and
                      having a group of Czechs run by him, one carrying a keg of beer.
                      Drinking doesn't help keep one steady. Julia M.





                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • Martin Votruba
                      ... That s funny, Jack. ... I think that s exactly it, Ron. The falls off cliffs do not happen when people hike on the trails in the Tatras. The trails are
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
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                        > Yeah, but it makes the fall so much more pleasant.

                        That's funny, Jack.

                        > they get in over their heads and sometimes die from the lesson.

                        I think that's exactly it, Ron. The "falls off cliffs" do not happen
                        when people hike on the trails in the Tatras. The trails are quite
                        safe. About the only accidents on the trails are twisted ankles and
                        heart failures (but not at a higher rate than they happen anywhere).

                        The casualties of the cliff falls are mainly dedicated, trained
                        climbers (with ropes, etc.), plus a few casual hikers who decide to
                        go off the trail and either try climbing for fun or begin to descend
                        down a slope that appears to be a sloping meadow, but end up in
                        difficult terrain.

                        The "professional climbers" are almost all the victims. The casual
                        hikers usually stay put before they cannot hold on any more, call for
                        help, and are rescued. The climbers make "professional" mistakes,
                        get hit by falling rocks, are swept down by waterfalls resulting from
                        sudden downpours, etc.


                        Martin
                      • sandman6294
                        ... and ... There could be several explanations for this enigma. Perhaps the keg was a handicap for the fastest runner. A more likely solution to the enigma
                        Message 11 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
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                          --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Matchett <wmatchett@c...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I once read of someone huffing and puffing up a trail in the Tatras
                          and
                          > having a group of Czechs run by him, one carrying a keg of beer.
                          > Drinking doesn't help keep one steady. Julia M.

                          There could be several explanations for this enigma. Perhaps the keg
                          was a handicap for the fastest runner. A more likely solution to the
                          enigma would be that the runners were a keg relay team for the express
                          delivery of beer from the local brewery to a horska' chata. After all,
                          nothing was said about the consumption of beer on the trail. ;-)

                          RU
                        • Scott T. Mikusko
                          ... The Pony Keg Express? ARGH!!! To boli ma! :) -S
                          Message 12 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
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                            On Mon, 3 Oct 2005, sandman6294 wrote:

                            > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Matchett <wmatchett@c...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > I once read of someone huffing and puffing up a trail in the Tatras
                            > and
                            > > having a group of Czechs run by him, one carrying a keg of beer.
                            > > Drinking doesn't help keep one steady. Julia M.
                            >
                            > There could be several explanations for this enigma. Perhaps the keg
                            > was a handicap for the fastest runner. A more likely solution to the
                            > enigma would be that the runners were a keg relay team for the express
                            > delivery of beer from the local brewery to a horska' chata. After all,
                            > nothing was said about the consumption of beer on the trail. ;-)
                            >

                            The Pony Keg Express?

                            ARGH!!! To boli ma! :)

                            -S
                          • sandman6294
                            ... Tatras ... keg ... the ... express ... After all, ... On the other hand, perhaps it would behoove us as good citizens to notify the locals: Police Search
                            Message 13 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
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                              --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Scott T. Mikusko"
                              <guerilla@s...> wrote:
                              > On Mon, 3 Oct 2005, sandman6294 wrote:
                              >
                              > > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Matchett <wmatchett@c...>
                              wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > I once read of someone huffing and puffing up a trail in the
                              Tatras
                              > > and
                              > > > having a group of Czechs run by him, one carrying a keg of beer.
                              > > > Drinking doesn't help keep one steady. Julia M.
                              > >
                              > > There could be several explanations for this enigma. Perhaps the
                              keg
                              > > was a handicap for the fastest runner. A more likely solution to
                              the
                              > > enigma would be that the runners were a keg relay team for the
                              express
                              > > delivery of beer from the local brewery to a horska' chata.
                              After all,
                              > > nothing was said about the consumption of beer on the trail. ;-)
                              > >
                              >
                              > The Pony Keg Express?
                              >
                              > ARGH!!! To boli ma! :)
                              >
                              > -S

                              On the other hand, perhaps it would behoove us as good citizens to
                              notify the locals:

                              "Police Search For Pony Keg Robbers
                              WCPO.com is 9News, Cincinnati news"

                              RU
                            • Andrea Vangor
                              Some people know just enough to get themselves killed, like the half-dozen or so who die on our local volcanos every year. I remember seeing a television show
                              Message 14 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
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                                Some people know just enough to get themselves killed, like the half-dozen or so who die on our local volcanos every year. I remember seeing a television show years and years ago, perhaps in the mid-80's. It was about people in then-Czechoslovakia using the hiking trails in the Tatry. You saw this endless line of people in regular clothes, ladies in dresses and so on, strolling sedately on the paths.
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Martin Votruba
                                To: Slovak World
                                Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 9:52 AM
                                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Where people fall off cliffs


                                > Yeah, but it makes the fall so much more pleasant.

                                That's funny, Jack.

                                > they get in over their heads and sometimes die from the lesson.

                                I think that's exactly it, Ron. The "falls off cliffs" do not happen
                                when people hike on the trails in the Tatras. The trails are quite
                                safe. About the only accidents on the trails are twisted ankles and
                                heart failures (but not at a higher rate than they happen anywhere).

                                The casualties of the cliff falls are mainly dedicated, trained
                                climbers (with ropes, etc.), plus a few casual hikers who decide to
                                go off the trail and either try climbing for fun or begin to descend
                                down a slope that appears to be a sloping meadow, but end up in
                                difficult terrain.

                                The "professional climbers" are almost all the victims. The casual
                                hikers usually stay put before they cannot hold on any more, call for
                                help, and are rescued. The climbers make "professional" mistakes,
                                get hit by falling rocks, are swept down by waterfalls resulting from
                                sudden downpours, etc.


                                Martin





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                              • sandman6294
                                ... trails in the Tatry. You saw this endless line of people in regular clothes, ladies in dresses and so on, strolling sedately on the paths. You can find
                                Message 15 of 15 , Oct 3, 2005
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                                  --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea Vangor" <drav@o...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > ......It was about people in then-Czechoslovakia using the hiking
                                  trails in the Tatry. You saw this endless line of people in regular
                                  clothes, ladies in dresses and so on, strolling sedately on the paths.

                                  You can find that type of trail in our parks also but of course the
                                  folks are in more casual clothing. The following is an excerpt from:

                                  http://www.vysoketatry.org/guide/

                                  "Experienced visitors in good condition may wish to attempt the more
                                  demanding peaks, or a more direct approach to peaks which are
                                  accessible by standard footpaths.

                                  Badge-carrying, certified mountain guides are required for these
                                  exacting and rewarding experiences."

                                  There is also a link to hiking maps for the Tatras at this website.

                                  RU
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