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Re: [Slovak-World] Karpatendeutsche

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  • Claudia Medvik
    Dear Jim, I m linguistically ignorant. How do you pronounce Karpatendeutsche? Claudia ... From: Jim Downs To:
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 27, 2003
      Dear Jim,

      I'm linguistically ignorant. How do you pronounce Karpatendeutsche?

      Claudia


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Jim Downs" <downsjd@...>
      To: <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 1:16 PM
      Subject: [Slovak-World] Karpatendeutsche


      Hi Bill,
      Regarding Slovak-Germans (Karpatendeutscher), contact Dr. Thomas Reimer at
      treimer@.... He is a university professor. His parents were born in
      Slovakia and Dr. Reimer is very active in Karpatendeutsche activities. He
      can send you copies of a lot of material.
      Jim
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Bill Tarkulich
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 8:33 AM
      Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village name


      Hello Vladimir,
      This is most interesting. I am a history buff and have had a helluva
      time collecting historical accounts of any of the details of day to day
      life of peasants. I've been collecting various historical accounts of
      the region, especially the Rusyn region in NE Slovakia. I've got some
      historical writing by Rusyns local to the region which is most
      interesting and illuminating. The only regional stuff done, out of
      Snina was from the 70s and 80s and reeked of socialistic rhetoric
      ("baloney" in mixed company) - you had to read between every other line
      for truth. It's also interesting to watch the same writer rewriting his
      1970s material into 2000-era material to promote the region. The
      references to "Our great and foreverafter comrades of the Soviet Union"
      are no more....

      It's true that they spend more time documenting the property owners than
      the customs and traditions of their own region. I suppose this may
      because they have been so oppressed for so long. It's kind of like the
      "beaten dog syndrome." After a while, the response become ingrained.

      I'd be interested in what German titles you might recommend for the
      Carpathian region, especially inhabited by the Rusyns. Who are these
      Germans doing the writings? Academics? I wonder what holds their
      interest in a land that they are only marginally affilliated with in the
      present times.

      Regards,
      Bill Tarkulich

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Vladimir Bohinc [mailto:konekta@...]
      Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 11:03 AM
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village name


      Dear Bill,
      what I find interesting is, that the Germans have much better historical
      materials about the settlers, than other ethnics. If you could only read
      german, to see into what kind of details they are going. Writing mostly
      about ordinary people and their lives. In slovak settlement history, you
      can only read about the landlors. Slovakia was settled meny times
      through various ethnic groups, but very few data and stories are
      available. Regards Vladimir

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Bill Tarkulich
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 4:42 PM
      Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village name


      Hello Vladimir,

      Thank you for your helpful reply. I too, am doing this a a "favor" to
      others, (providing "bites" of data). Since this is Helene's project,
      we'll just give her the data and let her draw her own conclusions. It
      is always good to have two heads review the information.

      Helene, you'll need to ascertain that the name(s) we've advised you on
      do fit the information provided and the cursive script. You need to
      take the next step to corroborate the data.
      That said, we're both pointing at the same region, which is today's
      lower Hungary, or Romania. So I doubt that this is on your
      itinerary...

      Good Luck,
      Bill Tarkulich



      -----Original Message-----
      From: Vladimir Bohinc [mailto:konekta@...]
      Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 9:24 AM
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village name


      Dear Bill,
      Regarding Tergowa district, I think, I took this from some german
      page,
      and it probably means the district as of today, not then. The then
      districts are on the map, which I provided the link for. I think it's
      the #13, Ujmoldoval, yes. I am quite a busy man, so I do not have much
      time to study such details for everyone. Here and there I take a
      "break"
      and try this or that. This is why I said, you can start from here. If
      the spelling provided was misspelled, and there can be several close
      interpretations, then a complete information of the source is needed
      and
      a careful analysis and comparison of all available data is required in
      order to be sure, which place was meant. For this, I unfortunately do
      not have time, although I am always attracted by such enigmas.
      Regards,
      Vladimir
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Bill Tarkulich
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: Helenezx@...
      Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 3:08 PM
      Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village
      name


      re:
      "Ebethal or Eibenshal
      Weitzenied"

      Vladimir :
      With all due respect to your fine work,

      1. I will agree with you on Weitzenied = WEITZENRIED, but how did
      you
      ascertain the TERGOWA district of Krassó-Szörény?
      My reference (see below) cites: Weitzenried = SZORENYBUZAS,
      Krassó-Szörény (Krasso-Szoreny) vm, UJMOLDOVAL jaras (district),
      GIRNIC
      (roman) GARNIC (Romanian). This village is in present-day ROMANIA.
      1910 census data: pop 1048, 15 magyar, 1025 czech and moravian; 1028
      roman catholic; 20 greek orthodox

      2. How did you ascertain Ebethal or Eibenshal = WEIDENTHAL
      (=TEMESFOE)
      Krassó-Szörény (Krasso-Szoreny) vm?
      In the same county of Krassó-Szörény (Krasso-Szoreny) vm, I find
      EIBENTHAL = TISZAFA in Krassó-Szörény (Krasso-Szoreny) vm, Orsovai
      district. This looks like a closer handwriting match. Located
      nearly
      at the southernmost tip of the Orsovai district.
      1910 Census data: pop 848,; 31 magyar, 33 germans, 100 romanians,,
      682
      czech and moravian; 733 roman catholic, 101greek orthodox, 9 jew.
      This village is about 15km northwest of Tiszafa

      Sources:
      1. "Magyar Helysegnev-Azonosito Szotar", Talma Konyvkiado, 1998
      2. http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/krasso.jpg
      3. "Magyaroszag Kozigazgatasi Atlasza, 1914", Talma Konyvkiado,
      2000







      -----Original Message-----
      From: helenezx@... [mailto:helenezx@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 5:11 AM
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village name


      Can anyone locate the following places -

      1) Ebethal or Eibenshal as it appears on a Hungarian document of
      1889

      I am wondering if this was another name for Gbely which was called
      Egbel
      til
      1913.

      2) Weitzenied on a document of 1883.
      Could it be Biely Kostol which was once called Weiskirchen?

      they mention on the hungarian document an "egyhazmegy" think this
      means
      county in Hungarian - but don't recognize what is written there as a
      county "
      Knasso-Szoreny" as best i can decipher. or maybe this is the diocese
      and
      the
      county or place is next as "varmegyebe kebelezett and written there
      is
      Nep.
      Sz. Yanosval nevezek Eibenshali (lovely old script but hard to read)


      After one name Fiala Maria - appears the word leámya - does anyone
      know
      what
      this means?

      Sure appreciate your help

      helene


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    • William C. Wormuth
      Kar Phaten doh eech
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 27, 2003
        Kar Phaten doh eech

        Claudia Medvik wrote:

        > Dear Jim,
        >
        > I'm linguistically ignorant. How do you pronounce Karpatendeutsche?
        >
        > Claudia
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Jim Downs" <downsjd@...>
        > To: <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 1:16 PM
        > Subject: [Slovak-World] Karpatendeutsche
        >
        > Hi Bill,
        > Regarding Slovak-Germans (Karpatendeutscher), contact Dr. Thomas Reimer at
        > treimer@.... He is a university professor. His parents were born in
        > Slovakia and Dr. Reimer is very active in Karpatendeutsche activities. He
        > can send you copies of a lot of material.
        > Jim
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Bill Tarkulich
        > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 8:33 AM
        > Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village name
        >
        > Hello Vladimir,
        > This is most interesting. I am a history buff and have had a helluva
        > time collecting historical accounts of any of the details of day to day
        > life of peasants. I've been collecting various historical accounts of
        > the region, especially the Rusyn region in NE Slovakia. I've got some
        > historical writing by Rusyns local to the region which is most
        > interesting and illuminating. The only regional stuff done, out of
        > Snina was from the 70s and 80s and reeked of socialistic rhetoric
        > ("baloney" in mixed company) - you had to read between every other line
        > for truth. It's also interesting to watch the same writer rewriting his
        > 1970s material into 2000-era material to promote the region. The
        > references to "Our great and foreverafter comrades of the Soviet Union"
        > are no more....
        >
        > It's true that they spend more time documenting the property owners than
        > the customs and traditions of their own region. I suppose this may
        > because they have been so oppressed for so long. It's kind of like the
        > "beaten dog syndrome." After a while, the response become ingrained.
        >
        > I'd be interested in what German titles you might recommend for the
        > Carpathian region, especially inhabited by the Rusyns. Who are these
        > Germans doing the writings? Academics? I wonder what holds their
        > interest in a land that they are only marginally affilliated with in the
        > present times.
        >
        > Regards,
        > Bill Tarkulich
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Vladimir Bohinc [mailto:konekta@...]
        > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 11:03 AM
        > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village name
        >
        > Dear Bill,
        > what I find interesting is, that the Germans have much better historical
        > materials about the settlers, than other ethnics. If you could only read
        > german, to see into what kind of details they are going. Writing mostly
        > about ordinary people and their lives. In slovak settlement history, you
        > can only read about the landlors. Slovakia was settled meny times
        > through various ethnic groups, but very few data and stories are
        > available. Regards Vladimir
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Bill Tarkulich
        > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 4:42 PM
        > Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village name
        >
        > Hello Vladimir,
        >
        > Thank you for your helpful reply. I too, am doing this a a "favor" to
        > others, (providing "bites" of data). Since this is Helene's project,
        > we'll just give her the data and let her draw her own conclusions. It
        > is always good to have two heads review the information.
        >
        > Helene, you'll need to ascertain that the name(s) we've advised you on
        > do fit the information provided and the cursive script. You need to
        > take the next step to corroborate the data.
        > That said, we're both pointing at the same region, which is today's
        > lower Hungary, or Romania. So I doubt that this is on your
        > itinerary...
        >
        > Good Luck,
        > Bill Tarkulich
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Vladimir Bohinc [mailto:konekta@...]
        > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 9:24 AM
        > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village name
        >
        > Dear Bill,
        > Regarding Tergowa district, I think, I took this from some german
        > page,
        > and it probably means the district as of today, not then. The then
        > districts are on the map, which I provided the link for. I think it's
        > the #13, Ujmoldoval, yes. I am quite a busy man, so I do not have much
        > time to study such details for everyone. Here and there I take a
        > "break"
        > and try this or that. This is why I said, you can start from here. If
        > the spelling provided was misspelled, and there can be several close
        > interpretations, then a complete information of the source is needed
        > and
        > a careful analysis and comparison of all available data is required in
        > order to be sure, which place was meant. For this, I unfortunately do
        > not have time, although I am always attracted by such enigmas.
        > Regards,
        > Vladimir
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Bill Tarkulich
        > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        > Cc: Helenezx@...
        > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 3:08 PM
        > Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village
        > name
        >
        > re:
        > "Ebethal or Eibenshal
        > Weitzenied"
        >
        > Vladimir :
        > With all due respect to your fine work,
        >
        > 1. I will agree with you on Weitzenied = WEITZENRIED, but how did
        > you
        > ascertain the TERGOWA district of Krassó-Szörény?
        > My reference (see below) cites: Weitzenried = SZORENYBUZAS,
        > Krassó-Szörény (Krasso-Szoreny) vm, UJMOLDOVAL jaras (district),
        > GIRNIC
        > (roman) GARNIC (Romanian). This village is in present-day ROMANIA.
        > 1910 census data: pop 1048, 15 magyar, 1025 czech and moravian; 1028
        > roman catholic; 20 greek orthodox
        >
        > 2. How did you ascertain Ebethal or Eibenshal = WEIDENTHAL
        > (=TEMESFOE)
        > Krassó-Szörény (Krasso-Szoreny) vm?
        > In the same county of Krassó-Szörény (Krasso-Szoreny) vm, I find
        > EIBENTHAL = TISZAFA in Krassó-Szörény (Krasso-Szoreny) vm, Orsovai
        > district. This looks like a closer handwriting match. Located
        > nearly
        > at the southernmost tip of the Orsovai district.
        > 1910 Census data: pop 848,; 31 magyar, 33 germans, 100 romanians,,
        > 682
        > czech and moravian; 733 roman catholic, 101greek orthodox, 9 jew.
        > This village is about 15km northwest of Tiszafa
        >
        > Sources:
        > 1. "Magyar Helysegnev-Azonosito Szotar", Talma Konyvkiado, 1998
        > 2. http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/krasso.jpg
        > 3. "Magyaroszag Kozigazgatasi Atlasza, 1914", Talma Konyvkiado,
        > 2000
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: helenezx@... [mailto:helenezx@...]
        > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 5:11 AM
        > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village name
        >
        > Can anyone locate the following places -
        >
        > 1) Ebethal or Eibenshal as it appears on a Hungarian document of
        > 1889
        >
        > I am wondering if this was another name for Gbely which was called
        > Egbel
        > til
        > 1913.
        >
        > 2) Weitzenied on a document of 1883.
        > Could it be Biely Kostol which was once called Weiskirchen?
        >
        > they mention on the hungarian document an "egyhazmegy" think this
        > means
        > county in Hungarian - but don't recognize what is written there as a
        > county "
        > Knasso-Szoreny" as best i can decipher. or maybe this is the diocese
        > and
        > the
        > county or place is next as "varmegyebe kebelezett and written there
        > is
        > Nep.
        > Sz. Yanosval nevezek Eibenshali (lovely old script but hard to read)
        >
        > After one name Fiala Maria - appears the word leámya - does anyone
        > know
        > what
        > this means?
        >
        > Sure appreciate your help
        >
        > helene
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > ADVERTISEMENT
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > ADVERTISEMENT
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > ADVERTISEMENT
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > ADVERTISEMENT
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
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      • Jim Downs
        Hi Claudia, car - paht - en -doit -sha Jim ... From: Claudia Medvik To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 12:41 PM Subject: Re:
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 27, 2003
          Hi Claudia,

          car - paht - en -doit -sha

          Jim
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Claudia Medvik
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 12:41 PM
          Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Karpatendeutsche


          Dear Jim,

          I'm linguistically ignorant. How do you pronounce Karpatendeutsche?

          Claudia


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Jim Downs" <downsjd@...>
          To: <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 1:16 PM
          Subject: [Slovak-World] Karpatendeutsche


          Hi Bill,
          Regarding Slovak-Germans (Karpatendeutscher), contact Dr. Thomas Reimer at
          treimer@.... He is a university professor. His parents were born in
          Slovakia and Dr. Reimer is very active in Karpatendeutsche activities. He
          can send you copies of a lot of material.
          Jim
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Bill Tarkulich
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 8:33 AM
          Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village name


          Hello Vladimir,
          This is most interesting. I am a history buff and have had a helluva
          time collecting historical accounts of any of the details of day to day
          life of peasants. I've been collecting various historical accounts of
          the region, especially the Rusyn region in NE Slovakia. I've got some
          historical writing by Rusyns local to the region which is most
          interesting and illuminating. The only regional stuff done, out of
          Snina was from the 70s and 80s and reeked of socialistic rhetoric
          ("baloney" in mixed company) - you had to read between every other line
          for truth. It's also interesting to watch the same writer rewriting his
          1970s material into 2000-era material to promote the region. The
          references to "Our great and foreverafter comrades of the Soviet Union"
          are no more....

          It's true that they spend more time documenting the property owners than
          the customs and traditions of their own region. I suppose this may
          because they have been so oppressed for so long. It's kind of like the
          "beaten dog syndrome." After a while, the response become ingrained.

          I'd be interested in what German titles you might recommend for the
          Carpathian region, especially inhabited by the Rusyns. Who are these
          Germans doing the writings? Academics? I wonder what holds their
          interest in a land that they are only marginally affilliated with in the
          present times.

          Regards,
          Bill Tarkulich

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Vladimir Bohinc [mailto:konekta@...]
          Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 11:03 AM
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village name


          Dear Bill,
          what I find interesting is, that the Germans have much better historical
          materials about the settlers, than other ethnics. If you could only read
          german, to see into what kind of details they are going. Writing mostly
          about ordinary people and their lives. In slovak settlement history, you
          can only read about the landlors. Slovakia was settled meny times
          through various ethnic groups, but very few data and stories are
          available. Regards Vladimir

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Bill Tarkulich
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 4:42 PM
          Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village name


          Hello Vladimir,

          Thank you for your helpful reply. I too, am doing this a a "favor" to
          others, (providing "bites" of data). Since this is Helene's project,
          we'll just give her the data and let her draw her own conclusions. It
          is always good to have two heads review the information.

          Helene, you'll need to ascertain that the name(s) we've advised you on
          do fit the information provided and the cursive script. You need to
          take the next step to corroborate the data.
          That said, we're both pointing at the same region, which is today's
          lower Hungary, or Romania. So I doubt that this is on your
          itinerary...

          Good Luck,
          Bill Tarkulich



          -----Original Message-----
          From: Vladimir Bohinc [mailto:konekta@...]
          Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 9:24 AM
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village name


          Dear Bill,
          Regarding Tergowa district, I think, I took this from some german
          page,
          and it probably means the district as of today, not then. The then
          districts are on the map, which I provided the link for. I think it's
          the #13, Ujmoldoval, yes. I am quite a busy man, so I do not have much
          time to study such details for everyone. Here and there I take a
          "break"
          and try this or that. This is why I said, you can start from here. If
          the spelling provided was misspelled, and there can be several close
          interpretations, then a complete information of the source is needed
          and
          a careful analysis and comparison of all available data is required in
          order to be sure, which place was meant. For this, I unfortunately do
          not have time, although I am always attracted by such enigmas.
          Regards,
          Vladimir
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Bill Tarkulich
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: Helenezx@...
          Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 3:08 PM
          Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village
          name


          re:
          "Ebethal or Eibenshal
          Weitzenied"

          Vladimir :
          With all due respect to your fine work,

          1. I will agree with you on Weitzenied = WEITZENRIED, but how did
          you
          ascertain the TERGOWA district of Krassó-Szörény?
          My reference (see below) cites: Weitzenried = SZORENYBUZAS,
          Krassó-Szörény (Krasso-Szoreny) vm, UJMOLDOVAL jaras (district),
          GIRNIC
          (roman) GARNIC (Romanian). This village is in present-day ROMANIA.
          1910 census data: pop 1048, 15 magyar, 1025 czech and moravian; 1028
          roman catholic; 20 greek orthodox

          2. How did you ascertain Ebethal or Eibenshal = WEIDENTHAL
          (=TEMESFOE)
          Krassó-Szörény (Krasso-Szoreny) vm?
          In the same county of Krassó-Szörény (Krasso-Szoreny) vm, I find
          EIBENTHAL = TISZAFA in Krassó-Szörény (Krasso-Szoreny) vm, Orsovai
          district. This looks like a closer handwriting match. Located
          nearly
          at the southernmost tip of the Orsovai district.
          1910 Census data: pop 848,; 31 magyar, 33 germans, 100 romanians,,
          682
          czech and moravian; 733 roman catholic, 101greek orthodox, 9 jew.
          This village is about 15km northwest of Tiszafa

          Sources:
          1. "Magyar Helysegnev-Azonosito Szotar", Talma Konyvkiado, 1998
          2. http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/krasso.jpg
          3. "Magyaroszag Kozigazgatasi Atlasza, 1914", Talma Konyvkiado,
          2000







          -----Original Message-----
          From: helenezx@... [mailto:helenezx@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 5:11 AM
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village name


          Can anyone locate the following places -

          1) Ebethal or Eibenshal as it appears on a Hungarian document of
          1889

          I am wondering if this was another name for Gbely which was called
          Egbel
          til
          1913.

          2) Weitzenied on a document of 1883.
          Could it be Biely Kostol which was once called Weiskirchen?

          they mention on the hungarian document an "egyhazmegy" think this
          means
          county in Hungarian - but don't recognize what is written there as a
          county "
          Knasso-Szoreny" as best i can decipher. or maybe this is the diocese
          and
          the
          county or place is next as "varmegyebe kebelezett and written there
          is
          Nep.
          Sz. Yanosval nevezek Eibenshali (lovely old script but hard to read)


          After one name Fiala Maria - appears the word leámya - does anyone
          know
          what
          this means?

          Sure appreciate your help

          helene


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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ron Matviyak
          In addition do some searches using www.lycos.de , the German Lycos. They will have a different variety of hits to investigate, and a fair number of pages will
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 28, 2003
            In addition do some searches using www.lycos.de , the German Lycos. They
            will have a different variety of hits to investigate, and a fair number of
            pages will still have an English option. In addition perhaps we should swap
            some e-mails, I have been doing much the same reading in history, only I can
            read German but not Slovak or Rusyn

            Ron

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Bill Tarkulich
            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 8:33 AM
            Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village name


            Hello Vladimir,
            This is most interesting. I am a history buff and have had a helluva
            time collecting historical accounts of any of the details of day to day
            life of peasants. I've been collecting various historical accounts of
            the region, especially the Rusyn region in NE Slovakia. I've got some
            historical writing by Rusyns local to the region which is most
            interesting and illuminating. The only regional stuff done, out of
            Snina was from the 70s and 80s and reeked of socialistic rhetoric
            ("baloney" in mixed company) - you had to read between every other line
            for truth. It's also interesting to watch the same writer rewriting his
            1970s material into 2000-era material to promote the region. The
            references to "Our great and foreverafter comrades of the Soviet Union"
            are no more....

            It's true that they spend more time documenting the property owners than
            the customs and traditions of their own region. I suppose this may
            because they have been so oppressed for so long. It's kind of like the
            "beaten dog syndrome." After a while, the response become ingrained.

            I'd be interested in what German titles you might recommend for the
            Carpathian region, especially inhabited by the Rusyns. Who are these
            Germans doing the writings? Academics? I wonder what holds their
            interest in a land that they are only marginally affilliated with in the
            present times.

            Regards,
            Bill Tarkulich

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Vladimir Bohinc [mailto:konekta@...]
            Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 11:03 AM
            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village name


            Dear Bill,
            what I find interesting is, that the Germans have much better historical
            materials about the settlers, than other ethnics. If you could only read
            german, to see into what kind of details they are going. Writing mostly
            about ordinary people and their lives. In slovak settlement history, you
            can only read about the landlors. Slovakia was settled meny times
            through various ethnic groups, but very few data and stories are
            available. Regards Vladimir

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Bill Tarkulich
            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 4:42 PM
            Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village name


            Hello Vladimir,

            Thank you for your helpful reply. I too, am doing this a a "favor" to
            others, (providing "bites" of data). Since this is Helene's project,
            we'll just give her the data and let her draw her own conclusions. It
            is always good to have two heads review the information.

            Helene, you'll need to ascertain that the name(s) we've advised you on
            do fit the information provided and the cursive script. You need to
            take the next step to corroborate the data.
            That said, we're both pointing at the same region, which is today's
            lower Hungary, or Romania. So I doubt that this is on your
            itinerary...

            Good Luck,
            Bill Tarkulich



            -----Original Message-----
            From: Vladimir Bohinc [mailto:konekta@...]
            Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 9:24 AM
            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village name


            Dear Bill,
            Regarding Tergowa district, I think, I took this from some german
            page,
            and it probably means the district as of today, not then. The then
            districts are on the map, which I provided the link for. I think it's
            the #13, Ujmoldoval, yes. I am quite a busy man, so I do not have much
            time to study such details for everyone. Here and there I take a
            "break"
            and try this or that. This is why I said, you can start from here. If
            the spelling provided was misspelled, and there can be several close
            interpretations, then a complete information of the source is needed
            and
            a careful analysis and comparison of all available data is required in
            order to be sure, which place was meant. For this, I unfortunately do
            not have time, although I am always attracted by such enigmas.
            Regards,
            Vladimir
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Bill Tarkulich
            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            Cc: Helenezx@...
            Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 3:08 PM
            Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village
            name


            re:
            "Ebethal or Eibenshal
            Weitzenied"

            Vladimir :
            With all due respect to your fine work,

            1. I will agree with you on Weitzenied = WEITZENRIED, but how did
            you
            ascertain the TERGOWA district of Krassó-Szörény?
            My reference (see below) cites: Weitzenried = SZORENYBUZAS,
            Krassó-Szörény (Krasso-Szoreny) vm, UJMOLDOVAL jaras (district),
            GIRNIC
            (roman) GARNIC (Romanian). This village is in present-day ROMANIA.
            1910 census data: pop 1048, 15 magyar, 1025 czech and moravian; 1028
            roman catholic; 20 greek orthodox

            2. How did you ascertain Ebethal or Eibenshal = WEIDENTHAL
            (=TEMESFOE)
            Krassó-Szörény (Krasso-Szoreny) vm?
            In the same county of Krassó-Szörény (Krasso-Szoreny) vm, I find
            EIBENTHAL = TISZAFA in Krassó-Szörény (Krasso-Szoreny) vm, Orsovai
            district. This looks like a closer handwriting match. Located
            nearly
            at the southernmost tip of the Orsovai district.
            1910 Census data: pop 848,; 31 magyar, 33 germans, 100 romanians,,
            682
            czech and moravian; 733 roman catholic, 101greek orthodox, 9 jew.
            This village is about 15km northwest of Tiszafa

            Sources:
            1. "Magyar Helysegnev-Azonosito Szotar", Talma Konyvkiado, 1998
            2. http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/krasso.jpg
            3. "Magyaroszag Kozigazgatasi Atlasza, 1914", Talma Konyvkiado,
            2000







            -----Original Message-----
            From: helenezx@... [mailto:helenezx@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 5:11 AM
            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Slovak-World] Need Help Identifying current village name


            Can anyone locate the following places -

            1) Ebethal or Eibenshal as it appears on a Hungarian document of
            1889

            I am wondering if this was another name for Gbely which was called
            Egbel
            til
            1913.

            2) Weitzenied on a document of 1883.
            Could it be Biely Kostol which was once called Weiskirchen?

            they mention on the hungarian document an "egyhazmegy" think this
            means
            county in Hungarian - but don't recognize what is written there as a
            county "
            Knasso-Szoreny" as best i can decipher. or maybe this is the diocese
            and
            the
            county or place is next as "varmegyebe kebelezett and written there
            is
            Nep.
            Sz. Yanosval nevezek Eibenshali (lovely old script but hard to read)


            After one name Fiala Maria - appears the word leámya - does anyone
            know
            what
            this means?

            Sure appreciate your help

            helene


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            Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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