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Re: [Slovak-World] Gooseberries

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  • Martin Votruba
    ... I agree, Joe, and it goes even farther. Gooseberries are not ancient Slovak, or even European fruit. The names of such plants aren t old, old Slovak,
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 2, 2005
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      > The Hungarian egres looks like it might be from a related
      > Germanic root

      I agree, Joe, and it goes even farther. Gooseberries are not ancient
      Slovak, or even European fruit. The names of such plants aren't old,
      old Slovak, Hungarian.

      Like paradajky (tomatoes), egrese (gooseberries) reached the Slovaks
      (and Hungarians) through Vienna. Their Austrian-German name
      _Agraseln_ came from the Spanish _agraz_ (it's Stachelbeere in
      German-German).

      The first records of gooseberries in Slovakia come from the 1600s.

      They probably reached Slovakia earlier. There was usually a delay
      between when something like that appeared in the real world and when
      it was first mentioned in a written record.


      Martin

      votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
    • Helen Fedor
      So does that mean that gooseberries originally came from Iberia? This also brought to mind the Slovak word cibul a (onion), which resembles the Spanish word
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 2, 2005
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        So does that mean that gooseberries originally came from Iberia? This
        also brought to mind the Slovak word "cibul'a" (onion), which resembles
        the Spanish word "cebolla". Did cibul'a also come from Spanish or is
        this just the Indo-European connection at word again?

        Helen



        >>> votrubam@... 03/02/05 12:30 PM >>>
        > The Hungarian egres looks like it might be from a related
        > Germanic root

        I agree, Joe, and it goes even farther. Gooseberries are not ancient
        Slovak, or even European fruit. The names of such plants aren't old,
        old Slovak, Hungarian.

        Like paradajky (tomatoes), egrese (gooseberries) reached the Slovaks
        (and Hungarians) through Vienna. Their Austrian-German name
        _Agraseln_ came from the Spanish _agraz_ (it's Stachelbeere in
        German-German).

        The first records of gooseberries in Slovakia come from the 1600s.

        They probably reached Slovakia earlier. There was usually a delay
        between when something like that appeared in the real world and when
        it was first mentioned in a written record.


        Martin

        votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu


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      • Martin Votruba
        ... It s more likely that gooseberries reached Vienna _via_ Spain/Spanish (e.g., the Habsburgs ruled Spain ca. 1500-1700, as well as much of Central Europe).
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 2, 2005
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          > that gooseberries originally came from Iberia?

          It's more likely that gooseberries reached Vienna _via_ Spain/Spanish
          (e.g., the Habsburgs ruled Spain ca. 1500-1700, as well as much of
          Central Europe). Apparently, gooseberries as we know them were
          cultivated around the 16th century from a lowlier variety of currants.

          > "cibul'a" (onion), which resembles the Spanish word "cebolla"

          I don't think this goes back to Indo-European directly from Slovak,
          Helen. The word came from Latin. That almost certainly does not
          mean that that the Old Slavs didn't have onion: it has been around
          for millennia. A particular cultivated variety probably spread from
          the Latin area along with the word and replaced whatever kinds of
          onion the Europeans used to grow.


          Martin

          votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
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