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Re: Votrubova Chata

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  • amiak27
    Martin, Thanks for the short version of the hut and better detailed version of the border dispute! I scanned the three photos so will post those, and have the
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 1, 2005
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      Martin,

      Thanks for the short version of the hut and better detailed version
      of the border dispute! I scanned the three photos so will post
      those, and have the text from the photos (1924,31, &36) here.
      From "Tatry" by Jan Gaspar, the Slovak original follows my
      trnaslation of the German:

      292 (1924) Votruba Hut - 1675m
      On strategic grounds during the time of the border dispute with
      Poland in 1922, the army built a sheltering hut southeast under the
      White saddle at the elevation of about 1675 meters. It was built by
      soldiers of the engineer company 2 Mountain brigade at the intiative
      and direction of StafCaptain Vaclav Dusil. It was named after the
      commander of the Brigade and chairman of the Under-Tatra Area
      (Untertatra-Gaus)of the KC^ST General Jan Votruba (1865-1935).
      Construction was supported with Kcs 12,300 from the central KC^ST in
      Prague. After the Czechoslovak-Polish border was finalized the hut
      was turned over to the administration of the Kezmarok section of the
      KC^ST.

      293 (1931) The hut was opened for tourists with a celebration July
      1, 1924 and the first season managers were two students. In the
      fall of 1924 the innkeeper Jozef Kerte'sz from Kexmarok took over
      operation of the hut until 1927. The Votruba Hut soon became the
      favorite ski center of the Czechoslovak public. Te hut was simply
      but efficiently outfitted for its purpose. It included a kitchen, a
      hallway, a dining room and a shared bunkroom with 32 beds.

      294 (1936) That was not adequate for the large crowds of visitors,
      so the Kezmarok section of the KC^ST built a frame addition on the
      back of the hut, where they had a dining room, two sleeping rooms
      and mansard rooms (under the roof). The capacity of the hut was
      thus increased to 45 beds.
      The addition was ready to use on September 18, 1932. The hut was
      under the care of Bohdan Pohla, who ran the hut until 1938. In 1942
      the VOtruba Hut was demolished and replaced by the somewhat lower
      Kezmarok Hut on the White
      Sea.

      292 Pofskom postavila armáda v roku 1922 juhovýchodne pod Predným
      Kopským sedlom vo vý¹ke asi 1675 rn ochrannú chatu. Stavali ju
      vojaci c ..-Pomenovali ju podfa velitefa brigády a predsedu
      Podtatranskej ¾upy KÈST generála Jana výstavbu sumou 12300 korún
      prispelo aj ústredie KÈST v Prahe.
      Keï boli èeskoslovensko-pofské hranice právoplatne ustálené, bola
      chata v roku 1924 odovzdaná do správy

      293 Pre turistov bola slávnostne otvorená 1. júla 1924 a jej prvými
      sezónnymi správcami boli dvaja ¹tudenti. V jeseni 1924 nastúpil za
      chatára]ozef Kertész z Ke¾marku, ktorý tu pósobil dQ roku 1927.
      Votrubova chata sa zakrátko stala obfúbeným Iy¾iar- skym strediskom
      èeskoslovenskej verejnosti. Bola jednoducho, ale úèelne zariadená,
      mala kuchyòu, predsieò, jedáleò a spoioè- nú nocfaháreò s 32
      postefami.

      294 To v¹ak vel'kej náv¹tevnosti nestaèilo a preto odbor KÈST z
      Ke¾marku vybudoval zo zadnej strany drevenú prístavbu, v ktorej bola
      jedáleò, dve nocfahárne a izby v manzardkách. Kapacita chaty sa
      zvý¹ila na 45 Ió¾ok.
      Prístavba bola daná do u¾ívania 18. septembra 1932. Vtedy tu bol
      chatárom Bohdan Pohla, ktorý tu pósobil a¾ do roku 1938, po òom
      Alojz Krupitzer. V roku 1942 Votrubovu chatu rozobrali a namiesto
      nej ni¾¹ie pri Bielych plesách postavili Ke¾marskú chatu.
    • amiak27
      The three photos are loaded at the Photos part of the http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Slovak-World site under Votruba Hut . I will take the photos down in a
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 1, 2005
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        The three photos are loaded at the Photos part of the
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Slovak-World
        site under "Votruba Hut". I will take the photos down in a few
        weeks. They are a beautiful example of a traditional hut in the
        European mountains. It is a nice look back in time.

        It was a surprise to run across the tidbit of history. Again,
        thanks for the history, Martin. It sure beats a one-liner in some
        general history book!

        Ron
      • sandman6294
        ... What a difference about 15 degrees in latitude (49 vs 35) makes. I ve been living at 1675 meters for 43 years and we don t have mountain brigades and
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 1, 2005
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          --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "amiak27" <rmat@p...> wrote:
          >
          > The three photos are loaded at the Photos part of the
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Slovak-World
          > site under "Votruba Hut". I will take the photos down in a few
          > weeks. They are a beautiful example of a traditional hut in the
          > European mountains. It is a nice look back in time.

          What a difference about 15 degrees in latitude (49 vs 35) makes.
          I've been living at 1675 meters for 43 years and we don't have
          mountain brigades and skiing here. By the way, anyone know what the
          difference between "chata" and "chyz^a" is?

          RU
        • Helen Fedor
          Chata is a hut, while chyz~a is a cottage. My parents never referred to their home in the village as anything other than nas~a chyz~a . Helen ... What a
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 2, 2005
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            "Chata" is a hut, while "chyz~a" is a cottage. My parents never
            referred to their home in the village as anything other than "nas~a
            chyz~a".

            Helen



            >>> sandman6294@... 03/02/05 1:07 AM >>>

            --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "amiak27" <rmat@p...> wrote:
            >
            > The three photos are loaded at the Photos part of the
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Slovak-World
            > site under "Votruba Hut". I will take the photos down in a few
            > weeks. They are a beautiful example of a traditional hut in the
            > European mountains. It is a nice look back in time.

            What a difference about 15 degrees in latitude (49 vs 35) makes.
            I've been living at 1675 meters for 43 years and we don't have
            mountain brigades and skiing here. By the way, anyone know what the
            difference between "chata" and "chyz^a" is?

            RU





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          • Martin Votruba
            Thank you, Ron, for the information and for the great photos. It s interesting that the German text translates the Predne Kopske sedlo in the Slovak text you
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 2, 2005
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              Thank you, Ron, for the information and for the great photos. It's
              interesting that the German text translates the Predne Kopske sedlo
              in the Slovak text you posted as "White Saddle." It indeed is above
              White Lake (Tarn) where the newer hut was built (it's not there any
              more, either), but the mountain pass hasn't been called that in
              Slovak.

              > difference between "chata" and "chyz^a"

              As Helen said, chyza is a traditional word for a small house. It was
              also used to mean "a room." Chata is more recent, from the German
              Hu"tte. It only means a mountain chalet/hut, or a summer
              cottage/house today. But I recall it from at least one poem from the
              19th century in the sense of "a house," although it could have been
              used because of the rhyme.


              Martin

              votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
            • sandman6294
              ... Thanks Helen. That was the term my parents also used. For some reason I got the impression it was a synonym for hut and chata was a cottage. I wasn t
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 2, 2005
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                --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@l...> wrote:
                > "Chata" is a hut, while "chyz~a" is a cottage. My parents never
                > referred to their home in the village as anything other than "nas~a
                > chyz~a".
                >
                > Helen

                Thanks Helen. That was the term my parents also used. For some
                reason I got the impression it was a synonym for hut and "chata" was
                a cottage. I wasn't able to find "chyz^a" in my Slovak
                dictionaries. Is it an Eastern dialect or Rusyn term?

                RU
              • sandman6294
                ... was also used to mean a room. Chata is more recent, from the German Hu tte. It only means a mountain chalet/hut, or a summer cottage/house today.
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 2, 2005
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                  --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Martin Votruba <votrubam@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > > difference between "chata" and "chyz^a"
                  >
                  > As Helen said, chyza is a traditional word for a small house. It
                  was also used to mean "a room." Chata is more recent, from the
                  German Hu"tte. It only means a mountain chalet/hut, or a summer
                  cottage/house today.< But I recall it from at least one poem
                  from...<

                  Thanks Martin. As I mentioned to Helen, I couldn't find chyz^a in
                  the dictionaries that I have access to. I had heard of "dacha" the
                  Russian term for summer home or cottage but not "chata". My first
                  encounter with "chata" was when I visited my cousin in Prague. They
                  have a chata in the countryside outside Prague. I thought it was a
                  Czech term.

                  RU
                • Martin Votruba
                  ... It is (was) quite common all over, RU, and in other Slavic languages, too. But it has an old-fashioned ring to it today, so that s why a shorter
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 2, 2005
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                    > to find "chyz^a" in my Slovak dictionaries.
                    > Is it an Eastern dialect or Rusyn term?

                    It is (was) quite common all over, RU, and in other Slavic languages,
                    too. But it has an old-fashioned ring to it today, so that's why a
                    shorter dictionary might not include it. Here's part of a song (the
                    words _zochabit_ and _skarat_ are typical of East Slovak; na Kriza is
                    Sept. 14):

                    Zochabil ma frajer na sameho kriza,
                    bodaj mu zhorela do jesene chyza.
                    Do jesene chyza, do jari stodola,
                    nechze ho skaraju tieto moje slova.

                    "My boyfriend ditched me on 'would-you-believe-it' Holy Cross Day;
                    let his cottage all burn down by fall. His cottage by fall, his barn
                    by spring; let these words of mine curse him."


                    Martin

                    votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                  • Helen Fedor
                    It s Slovak, but not much used, I guess. I looked in a smallish (pocket-ish) dictionary and a large Slovak-Eng. dictionary and found only chyz~na
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 2, 2005
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                      It's Slovak, but not much used, I guess. I looked in a smallish
                      (pocket-ish) dictionary and a large Slovak-Eng. dictionary and found
                      only "chyz~na" (chambermaid), but found "chyz~a" in the Slovak-Slovak
                      dictionary put out by the Slovak Academy of Sciences.

                      Helen



                      >>> sandman6294@... 03/02/05 12:20 PM >>>

                      --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@l...> wrote:
                      > "Chata" is a hut, while "chyz~a" is a cottage. My parents never
                      > referred to their home in the village as anything other than "nas~a
                      > chyz~a".
                      >
                      > Helen

                      Thanks Helen. That was the term my parents also used. For some
                      reason I got the impression it was a synonym for hut and "chata" was
                      a cottage. I wasn't able to find "chyz^a" in my Slovak
                      dictionaries. Is it an Eastern dialect or Rusyn term?

                      RU




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                    • Caye Caswick
                      I cannot believe those photos could ever be confused with a hut -- I d say they look like Swiss skiing chalets -- or lodges -- but hut -- I just don t get
                      Message 10 of 13 , Mar 2, 2005
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                        I cannot believe those photos could ever be confused
                        with a 'hut' -- I'd say they look like Swiss skiing
                        chalets -- or lodges -- but 'hut' -- I just don't get
                        how hut applies to construction/architecture that
                        nice.


                        Caye



                        --- sandman6294 <sandman6294@...> wrote:

                        >
                        > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "amiak27"
                        > <rmat@p...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > The three photos are loaded at the Photos part of
                        > the
                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Slovak-World
                        > > site under "Votruba Hut". I will take the photos
                        > down in a few
                        > > weeks. They are a beautiful example of a
                        > traditional hut in the
                        > > European mountains. It is a nice look back in
                        > time.
                        >
                        > What a difference about 15 degrees in latitude (49
                        > vs 35) makes.
                        > I've been living at 1675 meters for 43 years and we
                        > don't have
                        > mountain brigades and skiing here. By the way,
                        > anyone know what the
                        > difference between "chata" and "chyz^a" is?
                        >
                        > RU
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >





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                      • amiak27
                        Caye, The term simply has an entirely different meaning than we are accustomed to applying with our English version of hut . In Alaska the huts I have
                        Message 11 of 13 , Mar 2, 2005
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                          Caye,

                          The term simply has an entirely different meaning than we are
                          accustomed to applying with our English version of 'hut'. In Alaska
                          the huts I have encountered are huts as we understand them, sparse
                          frame construction well built to withstand wind and weather,
                          anchored with cables into the rocks. Lightweight because all
                          material has to be hauled in by man-sled, dog-sled, back or
                          airplane. Some are clad in thin aluminum newspaper print sheets
                          which are / were used once and salvaged or sold to poor mountaineers.

                          The huts I have experinced in Austria and Switzerland have ranged
                          from relatively simple buildings with cold running water to wash up
                          with and outhouses over the edge of the morraine to very large,
                          multi-story, multi-room ... hotels. There is no other English word
                          I can name, with hot showers and flush toilets. Both simple and
                          elaborate offer a bar and kitchen, bunks and blankets. You bring
                          your own sheets. My first time hiking hut to hut I started quite
                          nervously, because I had NEVER gone into the mountains to overnight
                          without being fully self-sufficient. There are some good tales to
                          tell, up in them thar mountains!

                          I wish I spoke Slovak to duplicate the experience in the Tatras!

                          Ron

                          --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Caye Caswick <ccaswick@y...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > I cannot believe those photos could ever be confused
                          > with a 'hut' -- I'd say they look like Swiss skiing
                          > chalets -- or lodges -- but 'hut' -- I just don't get
                          > how hut applies to construction/architecture that
                          > nice.
                          >
                          >
                          > Caye
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- sandman6294 <sandman6294@y...> wrote:
                          >
                          > >
                          > > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "amiak27"
                          > > <rmat@p...> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > The three photos are loaded at the Photos part of
                          > > the
                          > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Slovak-World
                          > > > site under "Votruba Hut". I will take the photos
                          > > down in a few
                          > > > weeks. They are a beautiful example of a
                          > > traditional hut in the
                          > > > European mountains. It is a nice look back in
                          > > time.
                          > >
                          > > What a difference about 15 degrees in latitude (49
                          > > vs 35) makes.
                          > > I've been living at 1675 meters for 43 years and we
                          > > don't have
                          > > mountain brigades and skiing here. By the way,
                          > > anyone know what the
                          > > difference between "chata" and "chyz^a" is?
                          > >
                          > > RU
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
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