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Roma

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  • David
    Slovakia to implement gypsy integration policy AFP: 2/7/2005 Interesting note: They (Slovak Journalists) use the word Slovakian a few times. I think some of
    Message 1 of 28 , Feb 7, 2005
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      Slovakia to implement gypsy integration policy

      AFP: 2/7/2005

      Interesting note: They (Slovak Journalists) use the word Slovakian a few
      times. I think some of our members sort of apposed this spelling.


      BRATISLAVA, Feb 7 (AFP) - Slovakia began putting words into action Monday
      by increasing funding for the integration of its gypsy minority into
      society, following a commitment by central and Eastern European countries
      to ease the plight of the continent's biggest and poorest minority.

      The government announced a 50 per cent increase to 600 million korunas
      (15.8 million euros) in funding for progammes to improve living conditions
      of gypsies, or Roma.

      Much of the money will go towards education, with the Slovakian goverment
      official for Roma affairs, Klara Orgovanova, announcing plans to improve
      low attendance rates of gypsy children at infant, primary and secondary
      schools.

      A recent UN development programme survey found that only 20 percent of Roma
      finish primary school in Slovakia.

      Orgnovanova said many gypsy children were taught in special schools for
      pupils with learning difficulties. The government aimed to reduce this to
      15 percent by 2015 and increase by 50 percent the numbers who completed
      secondary school.

      A further 200 million korunas (5.3 million euros) will be spent on building
      apartments and infrastructure in gypsy villages, the government said.

      Slovakia has a large and growing gypsy minority, which has increased over
      the last 15 years from 250,000 to about 400,000 or seven percent of the
      Slovakian population.

      In a declaration signed last week by five heads of government and three
      deputy prime ministers, Bulgaria, Hungary, Macedonia, Romania,
      Serbia-Montenegro, Slovakia, Slovenia and the Czech Republic promised to
      work to ease the plight of gypsies over the next 10 years.

      Gypsies make up roughly two percent of the 450 million people who live in
      the 25-nation European Union. About five million live in the 10 mainly
      central and eastern European states, including Slovakia, which joined the
      EU last year.
      on.
    • Scott T. Mikusko
      Perhaps a sign of learning English from a British instructor; Slovakian is chiefly a UK English variant. ... Which reminds me of silly college-era incident
      Message 2 of 28 , Feb 7, 2005
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        Perhaps a sign of learning English from a British instructor; "Slovakian"
        is chiefly a UK English variant.

        -----

        Which reminds me of silly college-era incident at a party:

        <drunk girl> You're Canadian?

        <friend> Yes.

        <drunk girl> You're from Canadia?

        *roll eyes*

        -S

        On Mon, 7 Feb 2005, David wrote:

        >
        >
        >
        > Slovakia to implement gypsy integration policy
        >
        > AFP: 2/7/2005
        >
        > Interesting note: They (Slovak Journalists) use the word Slovakian a few
        > times. I think some of our members sort of apposed this spelling.
        >
        >
        > BRATISLAVA, Feb 7 (AFP) - Slovakia began putting words into action Monday
        > by increasing funding for the integration of its gypsy minority into
        > society, following a commitment by central and Eastern European countries
        > to ease the plight of the continent's biggest and poorest minority.
        >
        > The government announced a 50 per cent increase to 600 million korunas
        > (15.8 million euros) in funding for progammes to improve living conditions
        > of gypsies, or Roma.
        >
        > Much of the money will go towards education, with the Slovakian goverment
        > official for Roma affairs, Klara Orgovanova, announcing plans to improve
        > low attendance rates of gypsy children at infant, primary and secondary
        > schools.
        >
        > A recent UN development programme survey found that only 20 percent of Roma
        > finish primary school in Slovakia.
        >
        > Orgnovanova said many gypsy children were taught in special schools for
        > pupils with learning difficulties. The government aimed to reduce this to
        > 15 percent by 2015 and increase by 50 percent the numbers who completed
        > secondary school.
        >
        > A further 200 million korunas (5.3 million euros) will be spent on building
        > apartments and infrastructure in gypsy villages, the government said.
        >
        > Slovakia has a large and growing gypsy minority, which has increased over
        > the last 15 years from 250,000 to about 400,000 or seven percent of the
        > Slovakian population.
        >
        > In a declaration signed last week by five heads of government and three
        > deputy prime ministers, Bulgaria, Hungary, Macedonia, Romania,
        > Serbia-Montenegro, Slovakia, Slovenia and the Czech Republic promised to
        > work to ease the plight of gypsies over the next 10 years.
        >
        > Gypsies make up roughly two percent of the 450 million people who live in
        > the 25-nation European Union. About five million live in the 10 mainly
        > central and eastern European states, including Slovakia, which joined the
        > EU last year.
        > on.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Scott T. Mikusko
        ... Oh, and my fave God, why are Americans so stupid sometimes moment: My wife, who s British, goes into a candy store back home in Michigan. The lady behind
        Message 3 of 28 , Feb 7, 2005
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          On Mon, 7 Feb 2005, Scott T. Mikusko wrote:

          > Which reminds me of silly college-era incident at a party:
          >
          > <drunk girl> You're Canadian?
          >
          > <friend> Yes.
          >
          > <drunk girl> You're from Canadia?
          >
          > *roll eyes*
          >
          > -S

          Oh, and my fave 'God, why are Americans so stupid sometimes' moment:

          My wife, who's British, goes into a candy store back home in Michigan. The
          lady behind the counter notices the accent and asks, "You have a lovely
          accent. Where are you from?"

          "I'm from England"

          "Oh!" says the lady, "You speak English well."

          Ruth, my wife, nearly drops her jaw on the floor, and I quickly walk
          outside into the parking to laugh my butt off. Needless to say, I now
          tease her with this comment once in a while as a joke.

          She then usually retorts with something like "Well, you don't speak
          English! You speak American!" I then usually break into a really strong
          British regional dialect, "As if what I'm saying now sounds like proper
          English!" :-)

          And my poor Slovak cousin who's working in London and taking English
          courses, but working in a working-class area. I fear she'll come to
          America speaking Cockney with a Slovak accent. This will be a hoot!

          "Dobry den, guv'nah! Gor blimey, muz^!"

          -S
        • David
          Thanks Martin...that would explain the word Slovakian. Question: Could the word Slovakian be used properly in any conversation? Dave
          Message 4 of 28 , Feb 8, 2005
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            Thanks Martin...that would explain the word Slovakian. Question: Could the
            word Slovakian be used properly in any conversation?
            Dave

            At 11:30 AM 2/8/2005, you wrote:

            > > Slovakia to implement gypsy integration policy
            > > AFP: 2/7/2005
            > > BRATISLAVA, Feb 7 (AFP) - Slovakia began putting words into action
            >[...]
            >
            > > Interesting note: They (Slovak Journalists) use the word Slovakian
            >
            >Although it is datelined in Bratislava, this news report was edited
            >by French journalists in Paris, Dave: AFP id Agenece France-Presse.
            >
            >
            >Martin
            >
            >votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Martin Votruba
            ... [...] ... Although it is datelined in Bratislava, this news report was edited by French journalists in Paris, Dave: AFP id Agenece France-Presse. Martin
            Message 5 of 28 , Feb 8, 2005
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              > Slovakia to implement gypsy integration policy
              > AFP: 2/7/2005
              > BRATISLAVA, Feb 7 (AFP) - Slovakia began putting words into action
              [...]

              > Interesting note: They (Slovak Journalists) use the word Slovakian

              Although it is datelined in Bratislava, this news report was edited
              by French journalists in Paris, Dave: AFP id Agenece France-Presse.


              Martin

              votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
            • Martin Votruba
              ... I don t think that there s a clear rule, Dave, that the choice between Slovak/Slovakian is up to the speaker. _Slovakian_ is never used by Bratislava to
              Message 6 of 28 , Feb 8, 2005
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                > Could the word Slovakian be used properly in any conversation?

                I don't think that there's a clear rule, Dave, that the choice
                between Slovak/Slovakian is up to the speaker.

                _Slovakian_ is never used by Bratislava to translate the names of its
                official bodies, including _the Slovak Republic_ (never "Slovakian
                Republic").

                _Slovakian_ is much less frequent in Slovak English-language sources.

                It is also less frequent in the well-established media in the US and
                Britain, although it is by no means uncommon. It seems to me that
                the sports editors are among the most common users of _Slovakian_,
                although they, too, use _Slovak_ more frequently.

                The Slovak-American publications also use _Slovak_ more often than
                _Slovakian_, but both have occurred throughout the history of Slovak
                immigration. Some Slovak-Americans strongly prefer _Slovak_, others
                don't seem to care much. On the other hand, I don't recall anyone
                being bothered by _Slovak_ and arguing strongly for _Slovakian_.
                Perhaps there are some on SK-W?


                Martin

                votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
              • Michelle A Mader
                ... When Czechoslovakia broke up there seemed to be a question as to what the Slovak portion would be called. In some places it was referred to as Slovakia,
                Message 7 of 28 , Feb 8, 2005
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                  > > Could the word Slovakian be used properly in any conversation?
                  >
                  >I don't think that there's a clear rule, Dave, that the choice
                  >between Slovak/Slovakian is up to the speaker.
                  >
                  >_Slovakian_ is never used by Bratislava to translate the names of its
                  >official bodies, including _the Slovak Republic_ (never "Slovakian
                  >Republic").
                  >
                  >_Slovakian_ is much less frequent in Slovak English-language sources.

                  When Czechoslovakia broke up there seemed to be a question as
                  to what the Slovak portion would be called. In some places it was
                  referred to as Slovakia, in others as the Slovak Republic. Some
                  genealogy web sites included both in their place names sites.

                  If you believed that the country was called Slovakia then Slovakians
                  would seem a normal way to refer to its people.

                  Because the country does not get referred to much within the US
                  media, I believe there are many who still don't know that the country is
                  in fact the Slovak Republic and not Slovakia.


                  Michelle Maco Mader
                  Cleveland, Ohio USA
                • David
                  Slovak Roma Demand Asylum in the Czech Republic 20. 7. 2005 The Czech newspaper Hospodarske noviny (HN) published yesterday information that the majority of
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jul 20, 2005
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                    Slovak Roma Demand Asylum in the Czech Republic 20. 7. 2005
                    The Czech newspaper Hospodarske noviny (HN) published yesterday
                    information that the majority of asylum seekers in the Czech Republic
                    are from the Slovak Republic. Since the beginning of 2005, 150 Slovak
                    citizens demanded asylum in the Vysne Lhoty Camp, 64 in June alone.
                    According to HN, most of these Slovakians are of Roma ethnicity.

                    The Czech Minister of the Interior Frantisek Bublan told HN that this
                    influx of Roma is due to Slovak social reform. According to his
                    information, the majority come from ghettos in Kosice, a city in
                    eastern Slovakia.

                    Ladislav Fizik, Chair of the NGO the Parliament of Roma in the Slovak
                    Republic and social policy advisor to the Slovak Minister of the
                    Interior, agrees that this migration is due to the recent social
                    reforms. He expects that the trend will continue, and will perhaps
                    even increase as winter approaches.

                    The Czech Republic has been an increasingly popular destination for
                    Slovak Roma, especially since the Slovak government instituted social
                    reforms last year drastically cutting welfare benefits to Slovakian
                    Roma. With Roma unemployment above 80% in some communities, the cuts
                    resulted in food shortages, and spurred riots in many Slovak cities.
                    The situation has not greatly improved since that time, and the
                    appeal a neighboring country with a similar language and similar
                    customs is growing.

                    The lasting effects of these social reforms can be seen in the
                    terrible state in which many Roma asylum seekers arrive at the asylum
                    center before being sent to the camp. They are exhausted, often
                    half-starved, and often sick.

                    During the months that the Roma wait for the asylum procedures to
                    finish, they can already start to feel the benefits of leaving
                    Slovakia. Roma living in the camps have adequate food and rest and
                    access to at least basic healthcare services. According to
                    information released by the International Organization for Migration,
                    some children are allegedly vaccinated for the first time while
                    waiting for asylum; Slovak officials deny this, however, claiming
                    that 99% of Slovak citizens are immunized via the national
                    vaccination program.

                    Roma asylum seekers from Slovakia started appearing in the Czech
                    Republic about five years ago. The largest number of asylum petitions
                    was in 2003, with 990 cases. In 2004, the number dropped to 129
                    cases. As demonstrated by these figures, most Slovak Roma seem to be
                    unaware that as EU citizens they can now move to the Czech Republic
                    without going through the asylum process, although the Czech
                    government estimates that around 1,000 Roma now move to the Czech
                    Republic each year as EU citizens, not through the asylum process.
                    (Dzeno Association)

                    Related Articles:
                    <http://www.dzeno.cz/?c_id=7812>Evictions in Slovakia leave 40 Roma homeless
                    About 40 Roma, including women and children, were forced out of an
                    abandoned apartment building yesterday in Kosice, Slovakia by a
                    private security agency, reported the Slovak daily newspaper SME.
                    After all the residents had been forced to leave, the building was
                    partially demolished to prevent their return, leaving the families
                    out on the streets.
                    column: News | date: 15. 6. 2005

                    <http://www.dzeno.cz/?c_id=6031>Slovak Roma: Myths Debunked
                    A new study shows that the Slovak Roma Community is smaller and more
                    integrated than believed. In the months before Slovakia joined the
                    European Union last spring, British newspapers predicted a large
                    migration of Slovak Roma to the United Kingdom, and prominent Czech
                    politicians aired fears of a wave of "welfare tourists."
                    column: From media | date: 14. 1. 2005

                    <http://www.dzeno.cz/?c_id=3292>Border tighter as Roma riot
                    Unrest response to cuts in Slovak social welfare; last few days
                    peaceful. At the end of February, when Jiri Gina watched the news on
                    television here, he saw groups of police officers with nightsticks
                    patrolling shanty towns and villages, and broken windows of grocery
                    stores where people had pilfered food, alcohol and cigarettes.
                    column: From media | date: 4. 3. 2004

                    --

                    I
                  • Eve Smith
                    I did learn that the Roma or gypsy (cigany) in Hungary originally came from India, according to the teacher I had at Lakeland Community College. (I did not
                    Message 9 of 28 , Sep 18 6:33 AM
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                      I did learn that the Roma or gypsy (cigany) in Hungary originally came from India, according to the teacher I had at Lakeland Community College. (I did not say professor, as he was never trained as a teacher).

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • LongJohn Wayne
                      Heard the same from a friend. Not sure if this is helpful or not, since sources are questionable: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsy_origin Would this make
                      Message 10 of 28 , Sep 19 8:41 AM
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                        Heard the same from a friend.

                        Not sure if this is helpful or not, since sources are questionable:

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsy_origin

                        Would this make most Gypsies (Roma) of the dalit class?



                        --- On Sat, 9/18/10, Eve Smith <esmith93580@...> wrote:

                        From: Eve Smith <esmith93580@...>
                        Subject: [Slovak-World] Roma
                        To: "Slovak-World" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
                        Date: Saturday, September 18, 2010, 9:33 AM







                         









                        I did learn that the Roma or gypsy (cigany) in Hungary originally came from India, according to the teacher I had at Lakeland Community College. (I did not say professor, as he was never trained as a teacher).



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • votrubam
                        ... And no one would say anything; I agree Chuck. Paris, which is among those who often preach to Bucharest, Bratislava, and Prague that they don t have the
                        Message 11 of 28 , Sep 19 10:21 AM
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                          > He wishes they would go back where they came from. If a
                          > Slovak citizen tried to do what they do, they would be cited
                          > or arrested.

                          And no one would say anything; I agree Chuck. Paris, which is among those who often preach to Bucharest, Bratislava, and Prague that they don't have the right approach to the minority, missed its own opportunity to show them how to do it right. The about 200 Roma put up their homes illegally in France the way many Romani settlements exist in Central Europe on public (municipal) land. Paris, so much wealthier by comparison, had a chance to say, "illegal, yes, but we'll let them stay, 'approach' them, and show you, Bucharest, Bratislava, Prague, a model way how to improve their condition."

                          The lot of about 2/3 of the Roma in Slovakia is quite terrible, the problem is growing. Bratislava is certainly not rushing to "approach" it, but no one anywhere seems to know how to do it do with the existing financial and quite limited human resources. Estimates say about 350,000 Roma live in the conditions in dire need of change. How many people with what skills need to be hired to do what to change it permanently? And should that be solved, where is the sufficient number of available people with the skills required to carry it out?


                          Martin
                        • LongJohn Wayne
                          Thank you, Doctor.  I look forward to the day we meet.  Thus far, the only one in this group that I have met face to face has been the Information Diva,
                          Message 12 of 28 , Sep 19 5:10 PM
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                            Thank you, Doctor.  I look forward to the day we meet.  Thus far, the only one in this group that I have met face to face has been the Information Diva, Helen.  I wish I could have met Skeeter.  I w/ meet him, I hope, one day.  He is no doubt in Heaven.

                            I am uncertain as to which direction the Good Lord w/ send me when the time comes.

                            I have also met Paul, who now resides in the FL panhandle.  In fact, he is the one who recommended this site.  I have never thanked him enough for his kindness.

                            This is an incredible 'place.'

                            Respectfully,
                            Chuck
                            [Only 1/2 Slovak, but seems to be relatively welcome here.  And grateful for it.]

                            --- On Sun, 9/19/10, votrubam <votrubam@...> wrote:

                            From: votrubam <votrubam@...>
                            Subject: [Slovak-World] Roma
                            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 1:21 PM







                             









                            > He wishes they would go back where they came from. If a

                            > Slovak citizen tried to do what they do, they would be cited

                            > or arrested.



                            And no one would say anything; I agree Chuck. Paris, which is among those who often preach to Bucharest, Bratislava, and Prague that they don't have the right approach to the minority, missed its own opportunity to show them how to do it right. The about 200 Roma put up their homes illegally in France the way many Romani settlements exist in Central Europe on public (municipal) land. Paris, so much wealthier by comparison, had a chance to say, "illegal, yes, but we'll let them stay, 'approach' them, and show you, Bucharest, Bratislava, Prague, a model way how to improve their condition."



                            The lot of about 2/3 of the Roma in Slovakia is quite terrible, the problem is growing. Bratislava is certainly not rushing to "approach" it, but no one anywhere seems to know how to do it do with the existing financial and quite limited human resources. Estimates say about 350,000 Roma live in the conditions in dire need of change. How many people with what skills need to be hired to do what to change it permanently? And should that be solved, where is the sufficient number of available people with the skills required to carry it out?



                            Martin

























                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Charlotte Conjelko
                            Just heard an interview with a Roma couple with a several children in Romania on NPR today.  A few years ago, they started a movement to change the Roma
                            Message 13 of 28 , Sep 20 6:23 PM
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                              Just heard an interview with a Roma couple with a several children in Romania on NPR today.  A few years ago, they started a movement to change the Roma custom of child marriage, typically by 14 or 15 though some are married as young as 8 or 9. Pregnancy quickly follows since the age of the first menses has gone down to around 11-12.  Though the laws of the countries in which they reside have laws regulating the marriage age, they are ignored as they continue to follow their tradition.

                              I can't remember whether they were married around 15 or 20 as they told several "marriage" stories and included ages.  (It's hard to take notes when you're driving.)  He is in law school so obviously he is not the typical Roma.

                              Interestingly when the reporter asked what if their children wanted to be married at a young age, the man said as the children are approaching the traditional marriage age he is having some hesitation about not following the cultural norm. 

                              How can any culture expect to rise above poverty existence when children are having children?

                              Charlotte




                               

                              --- On Sun, 9/19/10, votrubam <votrubam@...> wrote:

                              From: votrubam <votrubam@...>
                              Subject: [Slovak-World] Roma
                              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 12:21 PM







                               









                              > He wishes they would go back where they came from. If a

                              > Slovak citizen tried to do what they do, they would be cited

                              > or arrested.



                              And no one would say anything; I agree Chuck. Paris, which is among those who often preach to Bucharest, Bratislava, and Prague that they don't have the right approach to the minority, missed its own opportunity to show them how to do it right. The about 200 Roma put up their homes illegally in France the way many Romani settlements exist in Central Europe on public (municipal) land. Paris, so much wealthier by comparison, had a chance to say, "illegal, yes, but we'll let them stay, 'approach' them, and show you, Bucharest, Bratislava, Prague, a model way how to improve their condition."



                              The lot of about 2/3 of the Roma in Slovakia is quite terrible, the problem is growing. Bratislava is certainly not rushing to "approach" it, but no one anywhere seems to know how to do it do with the existing financial and quite limited human resources. Estimates say about 350,000 Roma live in the conditions in dire need of change. How many people with what skills need to be hired to do what to change it permanently? And should that be solved, where is the sufficient number of available people with the skills required to carry it out?



                              Martin

























                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Caye Caswick
                              Charlotte, our ancestors married young -- maybe not 8 or 9 -- but younger than we re used to -- chiefly because of the risk (or maybe guarantee)  of pregnancy
                              Message 14 of 28 , Sep 20 7:23 PM
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                                Charlotte, our ancestors married young -- maybe not 8 or 9 -- but younger than we're used to -- chiefly because of the risk (or maybe guarantee)  of pregnancy -- so that tradition in the Roma population goes back a while.

                                Caye


                                --- On Mon, 9/20/10, Charlotte Conjelko <charr61pribish@...> wrote:

                                From: Charlotte Conjelko <charr61pribish@...>
                                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Roma
                                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Monday, September 20, 2010, 8:23 PM
















                                 









                                Just heard an interview with a Roma couple with a several children in Romania on NPR today.  A few years ago, they started a movement to change the Roma custom of child marriage, typically by 14 or 15 though some are married as young as 8 or 9. Pregnancy quickly follows since the age of the first menses has gone down to around 11-12.  Though the laws of the countries in which they reside have laws regulating the marriage age, they are ignored as they continue to follow their tradition.



                                I can't remember whether they were married around 15 or 20 as they told several "marriage" stories and included ages.  (It's hard to take notes when you're driving.)  He is in law school so obviously he is not the typical Roma.



                                Interestingly when the reporter asked what if their children wanted to be married at a young age, the man said as the children are approaching the traditional marriage age he is having some hesitation about not following the cultural norm. 



                                How can any culture expect to rise above poverty existence when children are having children?



                                Charlotte



                                 



                                --- On Sun, 9/19/10, votrubam <votrubam@...> wrote:



                                From: votrubam <votrubam@...>

                                Subject: [Slovak-World] Roma

                                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

                                Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 12:21 PM



                                 



                                > He wishes they would go back where they came from. If a



                                > Slovak citizen tried to do what they do, they would be cited



                                > or arrested.



                                And no one would say anything; I agree Chuck. Paris, which is among those who often preach to Bucharest, Bratislava, and Prague that they don't have the right approach to the minority, missed its own opportunity to show them how to do it right. The about 200 Roma put up their homes illegally in France the way many Romani settlements exist in Central Europe on public (municipal) land. Paris, so much wealthier by comparison, had a chance to say, "illegal, yes, but we'll let them stay, 'approach' them, and show you, Bucharest, Bratislava, Prague, a model way how to improve their condition."



                                The lot of about 2/3 of the Roma in Slovakia is quite terrible, the problem is growing. Bratislava is certainly not rushing to "approach" it, but no one anywhere seems to know how to do it do with the existing financial and quite limited human resources. Estimates say about 350,000 Roma live in the conditions in dire need of change. How many people with what skills need to be hired to do what to change it permanently? And should that be solved, where is the sufficient number of available people with the skills required to carry it out?



                                Martin



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






























                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • LongJohn Wayne
                                We haven t given them enough time yet.  We are judging them by our standards. Give them another 200-400 years.  Then the birth rate w/ be up to 14 or 15. ...
                                Message 15 of 28 , Sep 21 9:11 AM
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                                  We haven't given them enough time yet.  We are judging them by our standards.

                                  Give them another 200-400 years.  Then the birth rate w/ be up to 14 or 15.

                                  --- On Mon, 9/20/10, Caye Caswick <ccaswick@...> wrote:

                                  From: Caye Caswick <ccaswick@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Roma
                                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Monday, September 20, 2010, 10:23 PM







                                   











                                  Charlotte, our ancestors married young -- maybe not 8 or 9 -- but younger than we're used to -- chiefly because of the risk (or maybe guarantee)  of pregnancy -- so that tradition in the Roma population goes back a while.



                                  Caye



                                  --- On Mon, 9/20/10, Charlotte Conjelko <charr61pribish@...> wrote:



                                  From: Charlotte Conjelko <charr61pribish@...>

                                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Roma

                                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

                                  Date: Monday, September 20, 2010, 8:23 PM



                                   



                                  Just heard an interview with a Roma couple with a several children in Romania on NPR today.  A few years ago, they started a movement to change the Roma custom of child marriage, typically by 14 or 15 though some are married as young as 8 or 9. Pregnancy quickly follows since the age of the first menses has gone down to around 11-12.  Though the laws of the countries in which they reside have laws regulating the marriage age, they are ignored as they continue to follow their tradition.



                                  I can't remember whether they were married around 15 or 20 as they told several "marriage" stories and included ages.  (It's hard to take notes when you're driving.)  He is in law school so obviously he is not the typical Roma.



                                  Interestingly when the reporter asked what if their children wanted to be married at a young age, the man said as the children are approaching the traditional marriage age he is having some hesitation about not following the cultural norm. 



                                  How can any culture expect to rise above poverty existence when children are having children?



                                  Charlotte



                                   



                                  --- On Sun, 9/19/10, votrubam <votrubam@...> wrote:



                                  From: votrubam <votrubam@...>



                                  Subject: [Slovak-World] Roma



                                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com



                                  Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 12:21 PM



                                   



                                  > He wishes they would go back where they came from. If a



                                  > Slovak citizen tried to do what they do, they would be cited



                                  > or arrested.



                                  And no one would say anything; I agree Chuck. Paris, which is among those who often preach to Bucharest, Bratislava, and Prague that they don't have the right approach to the minority, missed its own opportunity to show them how to do it right. The about 200 Roma put up their homes illegally in France the way many Romani settlements exist in Central Europe on public (municipal) land. Paris, so much wealthier by comparison, had a chance to say, "illegal, yes, but we'll let them stay, 'approach' them, and show you, Bucharest, Bratislava, Prague, a model way how to improve their condition."



                                  The lot of about 2/3 of the Roma in Slovakia is quite terrible, the problem is growing. Bratislava is certainly not rushing to "approach" it, but no one anywhere seems to know how to do it do with the existing financial and quite limited human resources. Estimates say about 350,000 Roma live in the conditions in dire need of change. How many people with what skills need to be hired to do what to change it permanently? And should that be solved, where is the sufficient number of available people with the skills required to carry it out?



                                  Martin



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