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7880Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Electricity & Coal

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  • Vladimir Bohinc
    May 2, 2004
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      Dear Jack,
      No, you are neither bad, nor stupid. You are just a special case ( Americans I mean) in the history of the world.
      You are living in a kind of a golden cage, or maybe even splendid isolation.
      The owners of the United States must keep you happy so you will not want to go away and they must keep you away from influence of other cultures.
      This is done by ( among other things) freedom to migrate and travel cheap, have lots of circenses and media control.
      One of the tools how to keep you there is the instrument of debt. Each of you have invisible handcuffs.
      =====
      This is very simplified, but outlines some of my views.
      These views may be subject to comparison, but are not negotiable :-)
      Vladimir


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: gergely
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 2:14 AM
      Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Re: Electricity & Coal



      Vladimir,

      I'm confused. Are we Americans bad people, or just stupid people because we
      don't tax ourselves out of the cheap fuel market?

      Jack Gergely



      At 10:57 PM 5/1/2004 +0200, you wrote:
      >Dear Gil,
      >Big, big mistake, what you are thinking.
      >Maybe you didn't give it enough thought.
      >I said, cheap energy is one of the pillars of US society. Thie is why US
      >is the biggest waster of it and the life style is very much a result of
      this.
      >If the price of oil goes up 15 or 20 %, there is a crisis in the world.
      >And you say, if it would triple, this would make no difference? A big
      >mistake.I just can not believe, you are serious.
      >if oil goes up, everything goes up.
      >How much can you save now? Probably nothing. How would you live, if
      >everything would be three times more expensive? Unimaginable.
      >I already said couple of times, here in Slovakia, for us, compared to you,
      >the gas is now about 15 times!! more expensive.
      >In other words, with your weekly wage you can buy 15 times more gas than
      >we can.
      >This would be the end of american way of life. Of course, this can hardly
      >happen. The issue is too important for the integrity of US, so no risks in
      >this direction will be taken. Cheap oil must be secured globally at any
      cost.
      >Vladimir
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Gil K.
      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 7:21 AM
      > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Electricity & Coal
      >
      >
      > Vladimir,
      >
      > I don't think raising the price of gasoline or cigarettes or liquor
      > will stop people from buying what they want if there is no limit on the
      > supply.
      >
      > In many big cities in the world where gasoline is priced very high
      > there appears to be no letup in auto useage and traffic jams. Rome,
      > Tokyo, Seoul and Hong Kog are good examples.
      >
      > Raising the price of a product to limit its use has been tried in may
      > countries and appears not to work. I can report on activities in a
      > Scandanavian country in the 1980s when the price of cigarettes was about
      > US$4.00 a pack, the price of a bottle of Vodka was US$20.00 and
      > gasoline was US$3.00 / gallon. The government believed this would reduce
      > the consumption. The results indicated that the majority of people still
      > smoked, drove high powered autos with many trafffic jams and the
      > alcohlism rate was among the highest in the world.
      >
      > I think its human nature that people will spend the last bit of money
      > to get what they want!
      >
      > Gil K.
      >
      >
      > Vladimir Bohinc <konekta@...> wrote:
      > I can only repeat what I wrote below. Think about it. Also in context
      > of what is going on right now and why in liberated country.
      > What would the Americans do, if the gas would be twice or three times
      > more expensive?
      > Vladimir
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: gergely
      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:18 PM
      > Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Re: Electricity & Coal
      >
      >
      > Now that's interesting Vladimir.
      >
      > Is our energy artificially cheap or is Europe's artifically expensive
      > because of high taxes?
      >
      > Jack Gergely
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Vladimir Bohinc [mailto:konekta@...]
      > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 10:15 AM
      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Electricity & Coal
      >
      >
      > Dear Noreen,
      > One of the pillars of the american society is artificially cheap
      energy.
      > Raise the cost of energy to european levels and watch what happens.
      > Vladimir
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: krejc@...
      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 12:33 PM
      > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Electricity & Coal
      >
      >
      > Gil,
      > You do make good points and these are the same points made from the
      > other
      > side. What about the nuclear waste products? You mention that
      > tons
      > of
      > poisonous emisions would come from fossil fuel plants should they
      > have to
      > be built
      > to take over the production of energy and this is true. But what
      about
      > all
      > the spent fuel rods that are piling up in the midwestern mountains
      > storage
      > containers? These continue to be radioactive long after our
      > grandchildren's
      > children are faced with the enormous problem of how to rid the
      > atmosphere
      > of these
      > wastes. I am ultra conservative when it comes to politics but I go
      > back
      > to
      > "earth children logic" when it comes to the environment. I think
      > that we
      > should
      > consider cutting back not only on our production of energy but of
      our
      > usage.
      > A thousand points should be given to our Jimmy Carter on that one.
      > Windmills
      > and solar energy should have long ago been part of our energy
      picture.
      > There
      > just is no quick answer to this but storing radioactive fuel rods
      > is not a
      > good thing. How does that saying go? It is something like "We are
      not
      > leaving
      > our natural resources to our children. We are borrowing theirs."
      > Noreen
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
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