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31683Re: [Slovak-World] Researching Slovak records... passanger, birth, etc.... and mistakes, inaccuracies...

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  • LongJohn Wayne
    May 3, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      I was here in 2007, 2009 & now.  Each time it is more beautiful.  More shops.  Better museums.  And for me, more English.
      If I am not mistaken, they now teach English in the 3rd grade.
      And I know that anecdotal evidence is the weakest.  I am not validating what I hear, just passing it on.  But thank you Vilko.


      --- On Mon, 5/2/11, William C. Wormuth <senzus@...> wrote:

      From: William C. Wormuth <senzus@...>
      Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Researching Slovak records... passanger, birth, etc.... and mistakes, inaccuracies...
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, May 2, 2011, 2:57 PM
















       









      Ahoj Chuck,



      Questioning ordinary people about their recent past and present living will

      result in very prejudicial information because the answers will be based on

      individual experience.



      One time I was speaking to a, (non-communist, very religious), older woman and

      she remarked, "we were better off with the communists, I had a doctor

      appointment and could not go because I can't walk to the train station. when

      communists were here they came to your door for you."



      experience is different in the East than in the West and it is caused by the

      work situation. It is improving but slowly.



      Ny the way, isn't Kos~ice beautiful? I haven't been there since they re-did the

      square but the fotos I saw were impressive. It was already beautiful and now

      spectacularly so.



      Enjoy!



      God Bless,



      Vilo



      ________________________________

      From: LongJohn Wayne <daxthewarrior@...>

      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

      Sent: Mon, May 2, 2011 2:16:09 PM

      Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Researching Slovak records... passanger, birth,

      etc.... and mistakes, inaccuracies...



      Vilko:



      Thank you for your comments. I have had a heck of a time understanding the

      recent history of our country. From the times of the Tartar invasions up to the

      end of Communism. Everyone I ask tells me that not much is written in English

      about it. It is a history written in Turkish as an afterthought, in Czech under

      the 'Great' Moravian empire, in Polish as a asterisk, in German as a subscript,

      in Hungarian as a land that 'got away,'' and in Russian as part of a satellite.



      It would be fascinating to see a comprehensive history from the Slovak

      perspective. This website has been integral in helping my simple mind put a few

      of the pieces of the puzzle on the table just to get an outline. So that I can

      learn what questions to ask.



      And to help me comprehend better current events unfolding as we type.



      Thank you all,

      Chuck



      --- On Sun, 5/1/11, William C. Wormuth <senzus@...> wrote:



      From: William C. Wormuth <senzus@...>

      Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Researching Slovak records... passanger, birth,

      etc.... and mistakes, inaccuracies...

      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

      Date: Sunday, May 1, 2011, 4:29 PM



      Chuck,



      In addition to my Grampa's history lessons, I experienced living under



      communists. Luckily, the "party was not strong or "mean", in Kúty and I had



      only a few bad experiences and my family did not suffer, resulting from my many



      visits.



      Life in western Slovakia is very different than in the East. most people have



      jobs and although there in inflation, they no longer complain and appreciate the



      availability of goods. They look forward to improvement in the economy.



      The people whom I have met, no longer wish to come to the USA. "what for"?



      "it's the same as here". You have seen the modern cities, super highways,



      TESCO, BILLA...etc.



      Yes the do resent the UE policies for helping Greece, Ireland Spain and Portugal



      because their cost of living is high and they did not want the country to Borrow



      the money and pay it to those countries.



      I am PROUD beyond belief, of our people. through the centuries they suffered



      much. First by the Hungarians, then WWI, where so many soldiers were killed,



      WWII fighting between Germans and Russians, the first CzechoSlovak Republik was



      not really satisfactory, they were treated like backward hillbillies. Then



      suffering at the hands of the first wave of Russians. Next they returned to



      being CzechoSlovaks . "Mi robime a oni tancovli", "We work while they dance".



      Rehabilitaion was first in the Bohemian part and not until the break was



      threatend did the improvements start in Slovakia. Now my eyes widen at seeing



      the free, modern life. At times surpassing my area here because all in NEW.



      God Bless our Slovaks and I am Happy you have seen the country.



      Z Bohom,



      Vilo



      ________________________________



      From: LongJohn Wayne <daxthewarrior@...>



      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com



      Sent: Sun, May 1, 2011 11:09:49 AM



      Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Researching Slovak records... passanger, birth,



      etc.... and mistakes, inaccuracies...



      Vilko:



      I don't think we should judge our ancestors too harshly.



      Back then they had had their heritage rubbed in their faces. Even in the Soviet



      days, the East Germans were the 'rich' folks under Communism. But the Slovaks



      in some ways had it better than our brethren to the east in Bulgaria & Romania.



      In fact, they emmigrate to Slovakia for work, even today.



      Many left & never wanted to look back. They didn't come to take jobs that



      Americans wouldn't do, but they came for good.



      I am not excusing it. But when I have met many Slovaks and tell them of my



      errand on these trips -- to learn more about my ancestors -- they look



      befuddled. Why bother, they wonder. It seems an awful waste of time & money to



      them.



      .. but then ... they get to LIVE here. And while the economy stinks. And they



      are being taxed to bail out Spain, France, Greece, Portugal & who knows which EU



      country next .... they DO get to live in paradise.



      I am just saying that many of them still want to forget where they came from &



      come to America.



      So it isn't an old idea at all.



      Just my perspective. Or my interpretation of what they have told me.



      Chuck



      --- On Sat, 4/30/11, William C. Wormuth <senzus@...> wrote:



      From: William C. Wormuth <senzus@...>



      Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Researching Slovak records... passanger, birth,



      etc.... and mistakes, inaccuracies...



      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com



      Date: Saturday, April 30, 2011, 12:20 PM



      Zuszka,



      As a young boy, when I heard that people I knew changed their names, I was



      disgusted, as I was taught to be proud to be an American and equally proud of my



      Slovak Heritage.



      We had changes like Valachovic to Valcovic, Macejka to Mace, Brezovsky to Brez,



      etc...These changes were made by people who were ashamed to be Slovak because of



      ridicule, by the White, Anglo Saxon, Protestant, "native" the in schools.



      My uncle would loudly complain when my Gram and Gramp spoke Slovak in his



      presence, "speak English you are in America". Slovak was his "First" language



      and my great Grandparents spoke no English.



      Ma was proud to be Slovak but would not teach us because my father was not



      Slovak and as she put it, "your father would not understand you. He was not



      Slovak. My Mother did not speak the Zahorak dialect but the language from the



      Hlohovec area and her pronunciation was "native".



      I managed to learn to speak, read and write Slovak from outside my home,



      Phonetically reading signs along the road until my pronunciation was "native".



      Even now, although many laugh at my antique Zahorak dialect, people believe I am



      a native Slovak.



      Unfortunately, there are only a very small number of us left who can speak the



      language, all of us over 75. We are helping the young people learn about their



      families and our history.



      "Hej Slovaci este nasa Slovenska rec zije....."



      Nech Pan Boh daj Pozehnaj,



      Vilko



      ________________________________



      From: Susan Durisek <durisek@...>



      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com



      Sent: Sat, April 30, 2011 8:26:17 AM



      Subject: [Slovak-World] Researching Slovak records... passanger, birth, etc....



      and mistakes, inaccuracies...



      Add to that changes brought about here, like the removal of the first letter of



      a last name by teachers in the US...Pittsburgh, even... because it was



      "unnecessary", or changes we ourselves did, like transforming Ochodnicki to



      Oaks. Then there is the inablility of the volunteers to read the handwriting in



      the records clearly while transcribing those passenger lists to the Ellis



      Island searchable database ...which was a fantastic service to us all, despite



      the errors. .Also, our inability to figure out that some of the entries in the



      birth/marriage/death records are written in "cases" or whatever you call the



      changes in words because of their grammatical function, so for example, Pavla



      and Anny. Or the switching of order of month and day, standard in the US, to day



      and month, standard in the records. Even more, with the use of 2 columns of



      days, one for birth and the other baptism in the chruch records, combined into



      one day and reversed on records here... like a relative born on September 1,



      baptized on September 2, whose records here all say her birthday was 12/9. It



      was celebrated that way for decades. I have no idea how that came about... but



      am thinking my relative could not read to be able to check what was written, and



      folks who saw her documentation were familiar with neither the date system nor



      the language.



      Still, we persist and many times find what we're looking for by being good



      detectives.



      I love a good puzzle.



      Zuzka



      ----- Original Message -----



      From: votrubam



      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com



      Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 2:03 AM



      Subject: [Slovak-World] Changes/YES, Errors/Not necessarily



      > current day Slovak name is not an error in my mind. The



      > location was known by that Hungarian name



      Not an error, I agree. But the rest is inaccurate. Slovak-majority localities



      _were_ known by their Slovak names long before they were assigned invented



      Hungarianized names by Budapest, many in the late 19th century for the first



      time.



      > first names. They may be in one language at that point



      > in time but later were converted to the ethnic name of the



      > individual's ethnicity. I do not look on that as an error either.



      As above: not an error, I agree. But the same applies as above too, the people's



      original Slovak names were forcibly converted to Hungarian at that time.



      > Since that time however, political events and wars have



      > changed the face of Central Europe.



      Budapest's policy forcibly changed the form of the names from Slovak, German,



      Croatian... to Hungarian long before the political events that changed the face



      of Central Europe. Most of the names reverted to their original forms after the



      political events and wars.



      > they really did not have any preference



      The travelers had documents issued by Budapest with Hungarianized personal names



      and place names, they, the documents, were key sources of the way the travelers'



      personal names and places of origin were spelled in the ship records, not their



      preferences, which many indeed did have.



      > I do not acknowledge that those changes are ERRORS.



      Vilo is quite right, the ship manifests are swarming with errors -- misspelled



      people's names and misspelled place names, erroneous both by Hungarian standards



      and by Slovak standards. Names in the manifests are massively spelled in a



      manner that never occurred in the Kingdom of Hungary regardless of which



      language one uses as the benchmark.



      Martin



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