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18558Re: [Slovak-World] Re: marriage witnesses

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  • Andrea Vangor
    Aug 1, 2007
      I remember wondering about this several years ago looking at records from Rank and Opina. I guess that the results were not conclusive, except there was more evidence for the popularity theory. You would have to go through a whole generation or two of births and marriages -- a great idea if anyone has time.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Gregory J Kopchak
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 7:05 AM
      Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: marriage witnesses


      Helen, Andrea, Julie and All

      We have lots of Slovak Wedding Traditions at www.iarelative.com/wedding

      For what ever reason, the subject of Witnesses at Slovak weddings
      never turned up at the site.

      There are a couple interesting theories here.

      The Godfather theory.

      The Respected member theory.

      After digging through a couple hundred Slovak Church records here this
      morning, I have a theory and only a theory.

      The witness at a Slovak wedding was a respected member of the
      community. It seems that the same person was witness to multiple
      marriages over years and based on age, was a respected member of the
      community.

      Does anyone have facts to support either theory?

      Greg Kopchak
      It's All Relative

      --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
      >
      > I remember my mother telling me, years ago, that godfathers had a
      role in weddings (eastern Slovakia), in addition to sitting at a place
      of honor at the celebration, the main table or somewhere nearby. The
      godfather of the groom was the groom's "pitac~", the "asker". It was
      he who would formally ask the bride's parents for permission for the
      young man to marry their daughter.
      >
      > I also seem to remember that the bride's godfather (why not the
      godmother? or the maid of honor?) would "assist" the bride as she
      asked forgiveness of her family before marrying. She'd first kneel
      down in front of her parents and ask them to forgive her for any
      wrongs she might have done them, then do the same for her siblings.
      Whether this extended to others in her family (spouses-of-siblings
      living in the same house or elsewhere, aunts and uncles, cousins) I'm
      not sure. I can see how this may have come about, as the bride often
      left her family and went to live with her new family, sometimes a
      distance away.
      >
      > H
      >
      >
      >
      > >>> "Andrea Vangor" <drav@...> 07/31/07 8:54 PM >>>
      > That's an outstanding question.
      > I have a popular relative who turns up a few times around 1800.
      Thinking it over, didn't we learn at one time that the wedding
      witnesses were supposed to be the original godfathers of the bride and
      groom? Of course they may also have played starring roles at the wedding.
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: J Michutka
      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 4:43 PM
      > Subject: [Slovak-World] marriage witnesses
      >
      >
      > I'm going through Slovak village marriage records in the late 1800s,
      > and finding that some names occur many times in the marriage witness
      > column. For example, one relative I'm tracking shows up 8 times
      > between 1887 and 1894, and I dare say I'll see him some more before
      > his death in 1905. Some of the weddings at which he was a witness
      > were of people with whom he had a family connection (cousins, in-
      > law's siblings), but for other weddings there is no apparent
      > connection by blood or marriage (and I have the family pretty well
      > mapped).
      >
      > The question has arisen as to whether we can make any assumptions
      > about these people whose names appear with much greater frequency as
      > marriage witnesses. Were they simply more popular? considered more
      > religious? In the case of the relative, there is no indication of
      > higher social status or money, although family stories say that he
      > loved to dance, so he may have been a friendly sociable fellow. In
      > contrast, siblings of his seldom appear as marriage witnesses in the
      > records, and when they do, it's almost always for another sibling's
      > wedding.
      >
      > One related question--these people named in the marriage records as
      > witnesses--always 2 men--would they have been the same as the best
      > man (druzba) and the zvac (inviter)? Sorry if it seems like the
      > answer should be obvious, but with the difference in time and place,
      > I try not to make assumptions, even for seemingly obvious questions.
      > So my question stands.
      >
      > Thanks for any insights,
      >
      > Julie Michutka
      > jmm@...
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >





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