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18548Re: [Slovak-World] Re: marriage witnesses

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  • Caye Caswick
    Aug 1, 2007
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      The same "elders" keep coming up as witnesses at my
      gram's Orthodox church in Cleveland as well -- and
      they were also godparents to a lot of the children as
      well -- so yes, I'd say your theory is pretty sound,
      at least in my research. I'll bet they also assisted
      or sponsored a lot of the immigrants, but don't have
      proof of that, that's just MY theory.



      Caye


      --- Gregory J Kopchak <greg@...> wrote:

      > Helen, Andrea, Julie and All
      >
      > We have lots of Slovak Wedding Traditions at
      > www.iarelative.com/wedding
      >
      > For what ever reason, the subject of Witnesses at
      > Slovak weddings
      > never turned up at the site.
      >
      > There are a couple interesting theories here.
      >
      > The Godfather theory.
      >
      > The Respected member theory.
      >
      > After digging through a couple hundred Slovak Church
      > records here this
      > morning, I have a theory and only a theory.
      >
      > The witness at a Slovak wedding was a respected
      > member of the
      > community. It seems that the same person was witness
      > to multiple
      > marriages over years and based on age, was a
      > respected member of the
      > community.
      >
      > Does anyone have facts to support either theory?
      >
      > Greg Kopchak
      > It's All Relative
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor"
      > <hfed@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > I remember my mother telling me, years ago, that
      > godfathers had a
      > role in weddings (eastern Slovakia), in addition to
      > sitting at a place
      > of honor at the celebration, the main table or
      > somewhere nearby. The
      > godfather of the groom was the groom's "pitac~", the
      > "asker". It was
      > he who would formally ask the bride's parents for
      > permission for the
      > young man to marry their daughter.
      > >
      > > I also seem to remember that the bride's godfather
      > (why not the
      > godmother? or the maid of honor?) would "assist" the
      > bride as she
      > asked forgiveness of her family before marrying.
      > She'd first kneel
      > down in front of her parents and ask them to forgive
      > her for any
      > wrongs she might have done them, then do the same
      > for her siblings.
      > Whether this extended to others in her family
      > (spouses-of-siblings
      > living in the same house or elsewhere, aunts and
      > uncles, cousins) I'm
      > not sure. I can see how this may have come about,
      > as the bride often
      > left her family and went to live with her new
      > family, sometimes a
      > distance away.
      > >
      > > H
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > >>> "Andrea Vangor" <drav@...> 07/31/07 8:54 PM
      > >>>
      > > That's an outstanding question.
      > > I have a popular relative who turns up a few times
      > around 1800.
      > Thinking it over, didn't we learn at one time that
      > the wedding
      > witnesses were supposed to be the original
      > godfathers of the bride and
      > groom? Of course they may also have played starring
      > roles at the wedding.
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: J Michutka
      > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 4:43 PM
      > > Subject: [Slovak-World] marriage witnesses
      > >
      > >
      > > I'm going through Slovak village marriage
      > records in the late 1800s,
      > > and finding that some names occur many times in
      > the marriage witness
      > > column. For example, one relative I'm tracking
      > shows up 8 times
      > > between 1887 and 1894, and I dare say I'll see
      > him some more before
      > > his death in 1905. Some of the weddings at which
      > he was a witness
      > > were of people with whom he had a family
      > connection (cousins, in-
      > > law's siblings), but for other weddings there is
      > no apparent
      > > connection by blood or marriage (and I have the
      > family pretty well
      > > mapped).
      > >
      > > The question has arisen as to whether we can
      > make any assumptions
      > > about these people whose names appear with much
      > greater frequency as
      > > marriage witnesses. Were they simply more
      > popular? considered more
      > > religious? In the case of the relative, there is
      > no indication of
      > > higher social status or money, although family
      > stories say that he
      > > loved to dance, so he may have been a friendly
      > sociable fellow. In
      > > contrast, siblings of his seldom appear as
      > marriage witnesses in the
      > > records, and when they do, it's almost always
      > for another sibling's
      > > wedding.
      > >
      > > One related question--these people named in the
      > marriage records as
      > > witnesses--always 2 men--would they have been
      > the same as the best
      > > man (druzba) and the zvac (inviter)? Sorry if it
      > seems like the
      > > answer should be obvious, but with the
      > difference in time and place,
      > > I try not to make assumptions, even for
      > seemingly obvious questions.
      > > So my question stands.
      > >
      > > Thanks for any insights,
      > >
      > > Julie Michutka
      > > jmm@...
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
      > removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >




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