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Vozgian case system

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  • Jan van Steenbergen
    Hello, After some tinkering and playing around with my North Slavic conlang Vozgian, I ve finally decided that it will have thirteen cases. First of all, there
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 5, 2003
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      Hello,

      After some tinkering and playing around with my North Slavic conlang Vozgian,
      I've finally decided that it will have thirteen cases.

      First of all, there are the "standard" Slavic cases: Nominative, Genitive,
      Dative, Accusative, Instrumental, Locative, and Vocative. Their usage is not
      significantly different from their usage in other Slavic language, with one
      exception.

      The locative can be used with or without a preposition. In the latter case, it
      indicates place without being more specific. This "bald" locative is used when
      the exact location of the subject is obvious or insignificant; depending on
      context, it can be translated as "in", "at", "on", etc. For example: "in
      Russia", "at school", "in the kitchen".
      Prepositions can be used to express the exact location explicitly. I am
      considering turning "vue" (in) and "na" (on) into prefixes that preceed a
      locative.

      The remaining cases are the result of agglutination: prepositions became
      postpositions, postpositions became suffixes, suffixes became cases.

      The benefactive has the simple meaning "for" and indicates that this noun is
      the recipient or takes the benefit of an action. It originates from the
      preposition _dIlja_.

      The comitative expresses accompaniment and can be translated as "with". The
      original preposition is _sU_.

      And then there are four lative cases:

      The illative expresses motion into a location. Original preposition: _do_.
      The elative expression motion out of a location; _Iz_.
      The allative expresses motion toward a location; _kU_.
      The ablative expression motion away from a location; _odU_.


      Regarding number: I'm simply too weak to resist the temptation of having a
      dual. It won't be used too frequently; I imagine it predominantly in very posh
      or very official speech. But the forms are there.

      For the rest, there will be definite and indefinite declension, giving a grand
      total of 75 forms per noun (the definite declension doesn't have a vocative).
      As can be expected, the definite declension is the result of a merger of all
      these cases with postfixed articles.

      I have one particular question: is there some sort of fixed order in which
      these cases (especially the less common ones) are presented in tables?

      Jan

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    • regis977
      ... which ... No, as far as I know. Each language has it own tradition. E.g. in Czech it is: nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, vocative, locative,
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 10, 2003
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        Jan van Steenbergen pisax:
        > I have one particular question: is there some sort of fixed order in
        which
        > these cases (especially the less common ones) are presented in tables?

        No, as far as I know. Each language has it own tradition. E.g. in
        Czech it is: nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, vocative,
        locative, instrumental.

        In my other conlang, Arkian, which has like 52 cases, I just divided
        them into classes: spacial, temporal and modal. Inside of those
        classes the order is just as it comes ;))

        In next, Antapa, I made order "de novo", since I use non-conform
        names: agentive (case of the active subject or naming case), facitive
        (case of the passive subject), causative (case of the direct object),
        addressive, partitive, attributive, possessive, mediative, agitative
        (case of movement), locative and temporal.

        It looks, like it is on your own. ;))

        BTW, do you know about good exhaustive source of knowledge about
        grammatical cases and their enumaration?
      • Jan van Steenbergen
        ... True. Well, these are the standard cases. For Vozgian I have: nominative, genitive, dative, accustive, instrumental, locative. I decided to list the
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 11, 2003
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          --- Jan Havli¬ö napizach:

          > > I have one particular question: is there some sort of fixed order in
          > > which these cases (especially the less common ones) are presented in
          > > tables?
          >
          > No, as far as I know. Each language has it own tradition. E.g. in
          > Czech it is: nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, vocative,
          > locative, instrumental.

          True. Well, these are the "standard" cases. For Vozgian I have: nominative,
          genitive, dative, accustive, instrumental, locative. I decided to list the
          vocative next to the nominative, since in most cases there is no difference
          between the two.
          Unless someone has a better suggestion, I have them followed by:
          benefactive, comitative, illative, elative, allative, ablative.

          > In my other conlang, Arkian, which has like 52 cases, I just divided
          > them into classes: spacial, temporal and modal. Inside of those
          > classes the order is just as it comes ;))

          Yes, that's basically what I would have done, too.

          > In next, Antapa, I made order "de novo", since I use non-conform
          > names: agentive (case of the active subject or naming case), facitive
          > (case of the passive subject), causative (case of the direct object),
          > addressive, partitive, attributive, possessive, mediative, agitative
          > (case of movement), locative and temporal.

          Whoa, interesting.

          > BTW, do you know about good exhaustive source of knowledge about
          > grammatical cases and their enumaration?

          Well, it is not exactly exhausive, but it is a good beginning: SIL's "glossary
          of linguistic terms" gives a short explanation about a huge number of cases:
          <http://www.sil.org/linguistics/GlossaryOfLinguisticTerms/WhatIsCase.htm>

          Jan

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        • Lukasz Korczewski
          regis977 ... AFAIK In European languages the traditional oder of cases is modelled on the old Latin grammars: Nom, Gen, Dat, Acc, Voc
          Message 4 of 6 , Sep 11, 2003
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            "regis977" <regis977@...>

            > Jan van Steenbergen pisax:
            > > I have one particular question: is there some sort of fixed order in
            > which
            > > these cases (especially the less common ones) are presented in tables?
            >
            > No, as far as I know. Each language has it own tradition. E.g. in
            > Czech it is: nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, vocative,
            > locative, instrumental.

            AFAIK In European languages the traditional oder of cases is modelled on the
            old Latin grammars: Nom, Gen, Dat, Acc, Voc (these are from ancient Greek),
            Abl, Loc. All the extraordinary cases are usually added somwhere here at the
            end of the list. Sometimes the vocative is moved to the last position for
            it's quite a special case of case and some say it's even not a real case.
            As I noticed, now some attempts are made to introduce new attitudes even
            in teaching of "classical" languages like Latin and Greek and for example
            Nom and Acc are put together for, I guess, they are both more important in
            all the system. And maybe it makes the pattern, which is usually quite
            regular here, more clear.

            The order of cases in Polish I was taught in school was: Nom, Gen, Dat, Acc,
            Ins, Loc, Voc.

            --
            Lukasz Korczewski
          • Henrik Theiling
            Hi! ... Icelandic seems to use Noc, Acc, Dat, Gen for that reason (Nom and Acc are very similar, especially concerning umlaut phenomena). **Henrik
            Message 5 of 6 , Sep 15, 2003
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              Hi!

              "Lukasz Korczewski" <lucasso@...> writes:
              > AFAIK In European languages the traditional oder of cases is modelled on the
              > old Latin grammars: Nom, Gen, Dat, Acc, Voc (these are from ancient Greek),
              > Abl, Loc. All the extraordinary cases are usually added somwhere here at the
              > end of the list. Sometimes the vocative is moved to the last position for
              > it's quite a special case of case and some say it's even not a real case.
              > As I noticed, now some attempts are made to introduce new attitudes even
              > in teaching of "classical" languages like Latin and Greek and for example
              > Nom and Acc are put together for, I guess, they are both more important in
              > all the system. And maybe it makes the pattern, which is usually quite
              > regular here, more clear.

              Icelandic seems to use Noc, Acc, Dat, Gen for that reason (Nom and Acc
              are very similar, especially concerning umlaut phenomena).

              **Henrik
            • jjunttil@mappi.helsinki.fi
              I have experienced that in almost all the case-flectional IE languages some grammars have N(V)GDA(AblInstLoc) while some others (newer ones?) have N(V)
              Message 6 of 6 , Sep 16, 2003
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                I have experienced that in almost all the case-flectional IE languages some
                grammars have N(V)GDA(AblInstLoc) while some others (newer ones?) have N(V)
                AGD(AblInstLoc). I am strongly for the latter one. I can find at least the
                following reasons:

                -in Germanic A is very often =N.
                -in Slavic A is also often =N, but sometimes even =G.
                -in all the IE, DPl =AblPl.
                -in all the IE, DDu =AblDu =InstDu.

                It's so fun to merge cells when making tables!

                With best wishes
                Santeri

                Lainaus Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>:

                > Hi!
                >
                > "Lukasz Korczewski" <lucasso@...> writes:
                > > AFAIK In European languages the traditional oder of cases is modelled
                > on the
                > > old Latin grammars: Nom, Gen, Dat, Acc, Voc (these are from ancient
                > Greek),
                > > Abl, Loc. All the extraordinary cases are usually added somwhere here
                > at the
                > > end of the list. Sometimes the vocative is moved to the last position
                > for
                > > it's quite a special case of case and some say it's even not a real
                > case.
                > > As I noticed, now some attempts are made to introduce new attitudes
                > even
                > > in teaching of "classical" languages like Latin and Greek and for
                > example
                > > Nom and Acc are put together for, I guess, they are both more important
                > in
                > > all the system. And maybe it makes the pattern, which is usually quite
                > > regular here, more clear.
                >
                > Icelandic seems to use Noc, Acc, Dat, Gen for that reason (Nom and Acc
                > are very similar, especially concerning umlaut phenomena).
                >
                > **Henrik
                >
                >
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