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Re: Pex vs. Copper [vs CPVC]

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  • Wayne
    Hi Larry, I think it s worth the extra work for the added value of less hassle free operations. I live in SC where we have a warm climate and rarely freezes.
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 26 1:23 PM
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      Hi Larry,

      I think it's worth the extra work for the added value of less hassle free operations. I live in SC where we have a warm climate and rarely freezes. I also can't put this on the roof/up high so a drain back system isn't an option. Overall, I feel that it's the best choice.

      I'm open to ideas!

      W.



      --- In SimplySolar@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Swanson" <swanson1485@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Wayne,
      > Why closed loop?, Physical restrictions? The closed loop is much more
      > plumbing to consider, antifreeze, pressure tank, relief valve and such.
      > Larry
      > WI
      >
      > From: SimplySolar@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SimplySolar@yahoogroups.com] On
      > Behalf Of Wayne
      > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 2:20 PM
      > To: SimplySolar@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [SimplySolar] Re: Pex vs. Copper [vs CPVC]
      >
      >
      > Hi Scott, Thank you for the details!
      >
      > I might also add, the purpose of this initial build is to supply heat for
      > hot water.
      > - If I can sustain enough heat in the winter (doubtful), I may consider
      > hooking up a heat exchanger to my HVAC unites as well.
      >
      > I hadn't seen anything about using CPVC (or this vid)...you may just have me
      > convinced. :-)
      > - If I were to do this (closed loop):
      > -- I have space for a 6' x 8' collector.
      > -- I could space CPVC horizontally 2" on center.
      > -- Increase performance by bending flashing... (thoughts?)
      > -- Automatic cooling fan in collector triggered at 210 *F
      > ---- Fan could run off of same PV power as the circulation pump.
      >
      > BIG question now...stick with Plex of go with copper in the heat
      > transfer/storage tank?
      > How many feet of heat exchanger tube should I plan on using (either plex or
      > copper).
      >
      > If you don't mind double checking my thoughts/ideas, please tell me if I'm
      > missing something obvious with this part of my planning.
      >
      > Thanks again,
      >
      > Wayne
      >
      > --- In SimplySolar@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SimplySolar%40yahoogroups.com> ,
      > Snkdavis <SNKDavis@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi Wayne,
      > >
      > > Great questions! Responses inserted:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: Wayne <wm.changetheworld@>
      > > To: SimplySolar <SimplySolar@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:SimplySolar%40yahoogroups.com> >
      > > Sent: Wed, Apr 25, 2012 4:30 pm
      > > Subject: [SimplySolar] Pex vs. Copper
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Preface - I'm in the research phase and getting ready to put together a
      > build list for a hydro solar collector.
      > >
      > > I'm sure you have already answered this question(s) and I'm overlooking
      > it!
      > >
      > > 1. Are you still satisfied with the performance of the Pex tubing (ie:
      > doesn't copper conduct much better and last longer in high temps?)?
      > >
      > > ** The pex collector is still working great after several years, but I'm
      > even more excited about the CPVC collector. Please see this video before
      > continuing:
      > >
      > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP8H5IOTwYU
      > > ** Copper conducts much better, but that is only part of the story. There
      > is a heat transfer bottle neck resulting from the flowing fluid that negates
      > much of the otherwise good heat transfer benefits of copper. With the much
      > lower cost of CPVC, you can have quite a bit more contact area, for less
      > cost, which in early testing appears to efficiently offset the copper
      > benefits.
      > >
      > > ** Also, Gary just did a test within the past few days showing CPVC should
      > be okay to 220F for our applications. If you build at a high tilt angle for
      > the winter sun, that should be sufficient to survive a stagnation event.
      > >
      > > 2. If you were to build another, would you go with Pex or Copper?
      > > ** CPVC.
      > >
      > > 3. Are you still satisfied with your choice of single Horizontal vs.
      > Vertical collector?
      > >
      > > ** The video shows a 8' X 8' with 32 parallel risers. If I retrofit my 24'
      > X 8' collector, I will run the parallel risers horizontally (hisers).
      > >
      > > 4. If you had it to do all over again, is there anything that you would
      > change about your design?
      > > ** Using CPVC will add a lot of contact area and overcome the low flow
      > resistance of a long single run of serpentine pex.
      > >
      > >
      > > Hope that's not too much...AND Thank You in advance!
      > > ** Glad to help!
      > >
      > > Take care,
      > > Scott
      > > MD
      > >
      > > Wayne
      > >
      >
      > _____
      >
      > No virus found in this message.
      > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2411/4960 - Release Date: 04/26/12
      >
    • Wayne
      An interesting thought Peter, Thanks! W.
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 26 1:24 PM
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        An interesting thought Peter, Thanks!

        W.


        --- In SimplySolar@yahoogroups.com, "Peter J. Thomas" <pj_thomas@...> wrote:
        >
        > On 4/26/2012 3:19 PM, Wayne wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi Scott, Thank you for the details!
        > >
        > > I might also add, the purpose of this initial build is to supply heat
        > > for hot water.
        > > - If I can sustain enough heat in the winter (doubtful), I may
        > > consider hooking up a heat exchanger to my HVAC unites as well.
        > >
        > > I hadn't seen anything about using CPVC (or this vid)...you may just
        > > have me convinced. :-)
        > > - If I were to do this (closed loop):
        > > -- I have space for a 6' x 8' collector.
        > > -- I could space CPVC horizontally 2" on center.
        > > -- Increase performance by bending flashing... (thoughts?)
        > > -- Automatic cooling fan in collector triggered at 210 *F
        > > ---- Fan could run off of same PV power as the circulation pump.
        > >
        >
        > I contemplating my first solar build. Still in the idea/planning
        > stage. One idea I had to deal with stagnation was to install a pair of
        > automotive cooling thermostats. These are the automatic thermostats in
        > the auto's water cooling system that open and close at a preset
        > temperature. They use the expansion of a wax pellet to open and close a
        > valve at a specific temperature. Prices vary but you could could pick
        > them up for about $6 a piece. One placed on top at about 195 degrees F
        > and one on the bottom at 185 degrees F. This setup would require no
        > wiring and would seal watertight in the normal operating temperature.
        >
        > Again, just an idea, I've never tried it.
        >
        > Peter Thomas
        >
        > >
        > > BIG question now...stick with Plex of go with copper in the heat
        > > transfer/storage tank?
        > > How many feet of heat exchanger tube should I plan on using (either
        > > plex or copper).
        > >
        > > If you don't mind double checking my thoughts/ideas, please tell me if
        > > I'm missing something obvious with this part of my planning.
        > >
        > > Thanks again,
        > >
        > > Wayne
        > >
        > > --- In SimplySolar@yahoogroups.com
        > > <mailto:SimplySolar%40yahoogroups.com>, Snkdavis <SNKDavis@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Hi Wayne,
        > > >
        > > > Great questions! Responses inserted:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > From: Wayne <wm.changetheworld@>
        > > > To: SimplySolar <SimplySolar@yahoogroups.com
        > > <mailto:SimplySolar%40yahoogroups.com>>
        > > > Sent: Wed, Apr 25, 2012 4:30 pm
        > > > Subject: [SimplySolar] Pex vs. Copper
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Preface - I'm in the research phase and getting ready to put
        > > together a build list for a hydro solar collector.
        > > >
        > > > I'm sure you have already answered this question(s) and I'm
        > > overlooking it!
        > > >
        > > > 1. Are you still satisfied with the performance of the Pex tubing
        > > (ie: doesn't copper conduct much better and last longer in high temps?)?
        > > >
        > > > ** The pex collector is still working great after several years, but
        > > I'm even more excited about the CPVC collector. Please see this video
        > > before continuing:
        > > >
        > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP8H5IOTwYU
        > > > ** Copper conducts much better, but that is only part of the story.
        > > There is a heat transfer bottle neck resulting from the flowing fluid
        > > that negates much of the otherwise good heat transfer benefits of
        > > copper. With the much lower cost of CPVC, you can have quite a bit
        > > more contact area, for less cost, which in early testing appears to
        > > efficiently offset the copper benefits.
        > > >
        > > > ** Also, Gary just did a test within the past few days showing CPVC
        > > should be okay to 220F for our applications. If you build at a high
        > > tilt angle for the winter sun, that should be sufficient to survive a
        > > stagnation event.
        > > >
        > > > 2. If you were to build another, would you go with Pex or Copper?
        > > > ** CPVC.
        > > >
        > > > 3. Are you still satisfied with your choice of single Horizontal vs.
        > > Vertical collector?
        > > >
        > > > ** The video shows a 8' X 8' with 32 parallel risers. If I retrofit
        > > my 24' X 8' collector, I will run the parallel risers horizontally
        > > (hisers).
        > > >
        > > > 4. If you had it to do all over again, is there anything that you
        > > would change about your design?
        > > > ** Using CPVC will add a lot of contact area and overcome the low
        > > flow resistance of a long single run of serpentine pex.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Hope that's not too much...AND Thank You in advance!
        > > > ** Glad to help!
        > > >
        > > > Take care,
        > > > Scott
        > > > MD
        > > >
        > > > Wayne
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        >
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