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Michael Rood

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  • lasmart613@comcast.net
    Putting the Messy in Messianic While it is important that we warn the people about the fraud Rabbi Ralph Messer, it is also important that we alert those
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 7, 2005
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      Putting the "Messy" in Messianic
       
      While it is important that we warn the people about the fraud "Rabbi" Ralph Messer, it is also important that we alert those same people about the other frauds within the messianic movement as well.
       
      With this in mind, I'd like to initiate a discussion on Michael Rood...
       
      Just like most other scam artists, Michael Rood's fraud begins with false credentials and bogus titles.
      Over the years Michael Rood has used these titles to promote his religious paranoia and "end of the world" theories:
       
      "Rabbi" Michael Rood - Michael is not Jewish and has never attended any Rabbinical seminary to justify his use of the title "Rabbi".
       
      In his now defunct website www.6001.com, he referred to himself as "Messianic Karaite Rabbi Rood".  
       
      First of all Karaite Jews are NOT Messianic.  There is no such thing as a "Messianic Karaite".  Furthermore, Karaites not only reject the notion of Jesus being the Messiah, but they also reject Rabbinic Law, which makes the term "Messianic Karaite RABBI" even more ridiculous (although some true Karaite synagogues to have "Rabbis", but many are just referred to as "Rav" which is more like the English "Mr" or "Sir").  No Karaite would endorse a Messianic "teacher" and certainly not refer to one as a "Rabbi".
       
      Michael Rood was raised as a Baptist and claims that he taught in John Hagee's church (Cornerstone) to justify his use of the title "Reverand".
      One woman who was researching his past, sent an email to John Hagee's church in Feb 2003 to verify this.  Here is the response.

      "...I have checked with Pastor's personal assistant and we are not familiar with Michael Rood, to our knowledge he has never spoke at Cornerstone." 

      Blessings

      Terri

      John Hagee Ministries   

      Michael Rood also refers to himself as a "Levite" although acknowledging that he was not born a Levite.  Well then, in this case he shoots his own foot.  Levitical law clearly states that the only way to be a "Levite" is to be born one.  Levites are given recognition in synagogues in order to preserve the identity of this tribe and to keep it pure.  There is no special "annointing" or "privilege' of being a Levite.  Back in the times of the Temple, they did the work inside the Temple.  This is an art that has been lost along with the destruction of the Temple.  The memory and identity of Levites is preserved for one reason and one reason only, and that is to keep the hope alive for the construction of a new Temple in Jerusalem.  (although if it were to be built in the near future, there would currently be practically nobody who would know how to use it!  Certainly none of these self-proclaimes Levites!).
       
      Unfortunately, there has been a false teaching spreading throughout the messianic circles saying that since the Levites had no land inheritance, that anyone who fits this mold must be a Levite.  Now, men who are too lazy to work or decide that they want to live off the donations of the working class because THEIR work is SOOOOOOO important come to the idiotic conclusion that they MUST be Levites! 
       
      (The Levites were a tribe of Israelites whose bloodline had no rights of inheritance to the land of Canaan.  It has nothing to do with property rights in the United States today.  Nor does it have anything to do with receiving the tithes.  The tithes were payments to the TEMPLE, not to the Priests.  The Priests made their living by doing the work of collecting the tithes and using it to conduct Temple operations- an art which has been lost)
       
      The Formative Years
      During the 1970s and 80s, Michael Rood spent about 9 years in a cult known as "The Way", which was a splinter group off of the "World-Wide Church of God" which had all sorts of problems. 
       
      In his speaking engagements, Michael Rood claims to hail from Michigan- specifically the Grand Rapids area.  However, Vicky Dillen investigated this and is quoted in the following statement.
      It should be noted that Michael Rood, at various speaking engagements has claimed to have been raised in Grand Rapids, Greenville, Belding/Belmont, Lansing, Lansing area,  all in Michigan. He claims also to have been raised on a farm in any one of those same centers, depending on who he is speaking to. 

      However, a perusal of Public library held High School and underclassmen school yearbooks reveals no Michael Rood having graduated in Greenville nor Belding, nor specifically Rockford High School, which is in in Rockford. Belmont youth attend Rockford High. Nor did Michael graduate any Grand Rapids high schools, according to the Grand Rapids Dept. of Education. In fact senior Belding residents had no knowledge of any Roods whatsoever, except for the ones residing in Greenville who have the Greenville Home Improvement business. Their names are Rick and Ryan Rood.

      A telephone conversation with Ryan Rood's wife, revealed they had never heard of Michael John Rood. Rick Rood, in his late 40's, also had never heard of Michael John Rood.  Rick Rood referred us to a John Rood, also in the Greenville area. A conversation with his wife, who is in her 60's, revealed they had also never heard of him.  John Rood does have a brother, Michael who lives up north, but that is not Michael John Rood. 

      According to his April 2003 plea for money Newsletter, Michael again made reference to being raised on a Michigan farm:

       "...When I was a kid on the farm in Michigan, we had to pay illegal aliens more than this to pick apples!" 8

      Due to Mr. Rood's claim, a search was done for Rood farms or orchards in Michigan. The one Rood farm/orchard listed in Michigan that actively hires migrant workers from Arizona, and advertises on line and through State agriculture programs, belongs to 75 year old Paul Rood, principle owner of the operation. A telephone conversation to him in his Covert, Michigan farm, just south of Grand Rapids, revealed that Paul Rood has never heard of Michael John Rood and he used to hire nephews about 40 years ago, but knows none by that name. 

      A Paul and Judith Rood listed as living in Commerce, Michigan have had their phone disconnected. Commerce is in northern Michigan, and is known for it's cherry orchards. In Grand Rapids over 18 telephone numbers with the name of Rood were called, which was all that are listed in Grand Rapids. None were relatives of Michael John Rood, or had ever heard of him. The first gentleman spoken with stated he used to be the only Rood in Grand Rapids. People with the name of Rood were queried all over Grand Rapids and Kent county, and no one knows who he is. 

      If the reader is starting to get a picture that maybe Michael John Rood is not quite accurate in his statements, further investigation into his statements, history and claims will reveal a side to Mr. Rood that he prefers  remain hidden. 

      It seems pretty obvious that either Michael Rood is either lying about his past or that "Michael John Rood" is not is true name.  In either case, you need to wonder if you should be able to justify listening to anything he has to say without first receiving TRUTHFUL answers to WHO HE IS and WHERE HE COMES FROM! 
       
      Birds of a Feather....
       
      Michael Rood works with and endorses Avi Ben Mordechai.  Avi Ben Mordechai is a Messianic author who wrote the "Messiah" trilogy.
       
      Avi Ben Mordechai's REAL NAME is Bradley Marcus.  Like Michael Rood, it appears that "Avi" feels that he must hide his true identity in order to have any credibility.  What are they hiding?   It's apparent that Bradley Marcus chose a Jewish sounding name in order to garner more credibility among unsuspecting truth-seekers.  By adopting a Hebrew name, he can pass himself off as a Jew who has been "made complete" by accepting Jesus as the messiah.  In this way, he can appear as an expert to both Christians and Messianics (who think of him as a "Jewish Scholar").
       
      "Avi Ben Mordechai" works closely with Nehemiah Gordon who is allegedly a Karaite, which takes us back around to Michael Rood's connection to Karaism.  Karaism is a very small sect of Jews that are considered to be heretical by the orthodox.  Because they reject the Rabbinical law, Karaites are in some ways more strict than orthodox and in other ways more liberal.  Karaites use a separate calendar than the orthodox, basing their's on actual observation of the moon and inspection of barley, etc.  Rabbinical law requires the Temple to be standing for these observations to be considered accurate, since the henge of the Temple courtyard served as the "artificial horizon" used to make the astronomical observations.  It is this calendar that Michael Rood has adapted to fit his "End of the World" calendar that he keeps revising every year.  Even after making huge blunders, setting dates for WWIII, Jesus' return, Israel's restoration, commencement of Temple Construction, setting up an altar, etc. people still consider him to be a credible source.  Yet, the Torah states that if a dreamer of dreams or a prophet states something that does not come to pass you are to "put him to death" (a euphenism for ignoring him).  Rood combats this by stating that he is "not a prophet", yet when you read his books and listen to his speeches he clearly makes attempts to predict the future (which always attracts followers).  Yet, by not taking on the TITLE of "Prophet", he gives himself the freedom to be wrong, and his followers give him grace, allowing him to revise his predictions, and then continue to follow him. 
       
      Nehemiah Gordon is supposed to have worked with Emanuel Tov on the translation of Dead Sea Scroll documents, however in all my web-searches of Tov's works, I did not encounter any mention of N. Gordon.  Biblical Archaeology Review has printed many articles referrencing Tov, and most of them were critical of his work- yet none of them mentioned the contributions of Nehemiah Gordon as far as I could find.
       
      My question is this:  If Nehemiah Gordon is indeed a world-class scholar, who is fluent in Hebrew, Aramaic, Syriac, and Greek, and was chosen by Emanuel Tov to work on the Dead Sea Scrolls, the world's greatest archaeological treasure to date, then why in the hell would he affiliate with two blatant frauds???  Especially one who parades around in public dressed up like Friar Tuck?
       
      Bradley Markus (Avi Mordechai) works with and endorses the work of "Dr. James Scott Trimm", who is supposedly fluent in Hebrew and Aramaic and heads the Society for the Advancement of Nazarene Judaism (SANJ).  Trimm has been pushing "Dr. James Scott Trimm"??his DuTillet book of Mathew in Hebrew and his supposed translation (which was actually a plagiarism).  Trimm, then came out with his Hebraic Roots Version (HRV) Translation of the New Testament and commentary which followed later.  This also proved to be a fraudulent plagiarism. 
       
      James Trimm, then began work on an HRV Bible, complete with Old Testament.  He began taking pre-orders and collecting money before it ever went to print.  Today, scores of people who have already pre-paid for the HRV Bibles are still waiting for their orders and have been waiting for approximately 3 years. 
       
      After doing some digging, it was found that "James Trimm" is not the name he went by in his younger years, when he was known as "Scott Trimm".  "James" Trimm claims that he was raised in an orthodox Jewish household, educated in a Yeshiva and "received Yeshua" later in life.  This turned out to be a complete lie.  He was not raised Jewish, nor was he educated in a Yeshiva.  He was another member of "The Way".  He tries to pass himself off as a PhD (Dr. James Trimm), yet it turns out that his PhD came from an unaccredited diploma mill in New Mexico which was located in a strip mall.  James never lived in New Mexico, although he claims that he took classes there.  When people try to chat with him in Hebrew, he responds in English indicating that he is not comfortable conversing in the language. 
       
      "James" Trimm runs many Yahoo groups; some of which he started and owns, others he "took over" from other messianic leaders who did not have the time or inclination to continue running them.  One messianic leader who lost his ministry because of his polygamous relationship handed over his Yahoogroup to Trimm. 
       
      Trimm also contributed to a "Mormon Messianic" Yahoogroup under the false name of "Rabbi Yosef" or "Yosef Ben Yehuda" and was quickly exposed.  During this time, "Rabbi Yosef" spoke about making a "messianic" commentary on the Book of Mormon. 
       
      For more information on the James Trimm Fraud, read the message archives at:
       
      These are just the beginning of the fraud of these few "leaders" of the messianic movement.  It goes much deeper, and involves others too.  I thought that this would be a good start and reason enough to check people out.  You need to know what these crooks are trying to sell you.
       
      -Larry
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
    • Daniel Segard
      lasmart613@comcast.net wrote: Putting the Messy in Messianic While it is important that we warn the people about the fraud Rabbi Ralph Messer, it is also
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 8, 2005
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        Putting the "Messy" in Messianic
         
        While it is important that we warn the people about the fraud "Rabbi" Ralph Messer, it is also important that we alert those same people about the other frauds within the messianic movement as well.
         
        With this in mind, I'd like to initiate a discussion on Michael Rood...
         
              With trepidation I'll stick my neck out and speak on this issue since I have known Michael since I first met him at Ralph's Torah Study at 120th on a Sunday evening way back in 1998 or 99.  I am not necessarily a proponent of Michael Rood, but I do feel that what he teaches is reasonably good and would be important for much of the traditional Christian church to hear.
         
        Just like most other scam artists, Michael Rood's fraud begins with false credentials and bogus titles.
         
              This tends to fall into the logical fallacy called "poisoning the well", that is to say the article starts out by calling him a "scam artist" and "fraud" prior to establishing anything.
         
        Over the years Michael Rood has used these titles to promote his religious paranoia and "end of the world" theories:
         
        "Rabbi" Michael Rood - Michael is not Jewish and has never attended any Rabbinical seminary to justify his use of the title "Rabbi".
         
                Of all of the Messianic Movement that I am aware of I only recall hearing of 2 or 3 ordained rabbis that actually became Believers in Yeshua.  My personal position is that Messianic leaders shouldn't seek to be called rabbi since such titles tend to go to their heads and that sort of thinking promotes the doctrine of the Nicolatians.  (That there are 2 classes: Nico (rulers) and Laity (common folks).
                But assuming the use of the term rabbi (meaning "teacher") was acceptable, how would we then judge from Scripture whether a person is a rabbi or not?  Does Scripture indicate that a rabbi must go to seminary for a number of years?  Yeshua was called "rabbi", who did he learn from and what seminary did he attend?
        In his now defunct website www.6001.com, he referred to himself as "Messianic Karaite Rabbi Rood".  
         
        First of all Karaite Jews are NOT Messianic.  There is no such thing as a "Messianic Karaite". 
               And Danny Miller, the head of the Messianic Congregation in Fort Collins, says that the Fort Collins congregation is Messianic Chassidic. But obviously the Chassidic movement doesn't accept Yeshua.  Similarly, using the term "Messianic Jews" is considered incorrect since Jews don't believe in Yeshua.  Okay, so some Jews do believe in Yeshua, so then the thought is "they are no longer Jews".  And Danny Miller's congregation performs the service from the Siddur in flawless Hebrew, so maybe they are Chassidic.  Likewise, Karaites are Jews that accept the authority of Scripture but reject rabbinic authority, so those Messianic Jews who reject rabbinic authority could probably use the term Karaite to describe their belief system.  But using the terms Karaite and Rabbi in one description is laughable.  So I would ding Michael on that one.  If he is going to be a Karaite then he can't be a rabbi.  But he hasn't had the 6001 domain in at least 3 years, and I don't think I have seen him calling himself rabbi in at least that long, so let's give him the benifit of the doubt and say that he has repented of this.
        Furthermore, Karaites not only reject the notion of Jesus being the Messiah, but they also reject Rabbinic Law, which makes the term "Messianic Karaite RABBI" even more ridiculous (although some true Karaite synagogues to have "Rabbis", but many are just referred to as "Rav" which is more like the English "Mr" or "Sir").  No Karaite would endorse a Messianic "teacher" and certainly not refer to one as a "Rabbi".
              Follow along closely:  go to http://www.karaite-korner.org/ click the link to http://www.hebrewyeshua.com/ and then click on the link to http://www.hebrewyeshua.com/tour.html so does the fact that the world Karaite website is promoting a Michael Rood tour mean anything?  While I don't think they would ever say that they are "endorsing" Michael, this tends to go a long way to saying that they give him a level of credibility.
        Michael Rood was raised as a Baptist and claims that he taught in John Hagee's church (Cornerstone) to justify his use of the title "Reverand".
                Could you quote me something from Scripture that permits or limits the use of the term "Reverand"?  Is that a term reserved only for the NICO or can we laity use it as well according to Scripture? 
         
                Michael's sermon at Beth Messiah on January 1st actually mentioned the Hagee connection, with Michael saying that he had attended Hagee's congregation and attended Sunday School classes there with his daughters.  Michael went on to say that it was amazing how sitting under the supposed "covering" of a big name pastor like Hagee would open doors. Michael said that he could go to a small congregation and say "Hi I'm from John Hagee's church" and because of that supposed "covering" he would be welcomed with open arms.
                His sermon went on to say that such use of "covering" is completely inappropriate and that he has since been convicted that men are to have no "covering" other than Messiah Yeshua.  That we don't need a rabbi between us and Yeshua, and we certainly don't need a layer of coverings such as Parish priest, Bishop, Archbishop, Cardinal and Pope.  So from his sermon, I would say he pretty much has repented of whatever it is that he is being accused of here. 
          Michael Rood also refers to himself as a "Levite" although acknowledging that he was not born a Levite.  Well then, in this case he shoots his own foot.  Levitical law clearly states that the only way to be a "Levite" is to be born one. 
                 Actually I think you are misunderstanding Rood's use of the term here.  Michael says that he "lives like a Levite".  That is to say that the Levites had no inheritence in the land, and had to live off of what the rest of Israel gave to them.  So perhaps saying that he is an independant circuit riding evangelist would be less offensive?
        Levites are given recognition in synagogues in order to preserve the identity of this tribe and to keep it pure.  There is no special "annointing" or "privilege' of being a Levite.  Back in the times of the Temple, they did the work inside the Temple.  This is an art that has been lost along with the destruction of the Temple.  The memory and identity of Levites is preserved for one reason and one reason only, and that is to keep the hope alive for the construction of a new Temple in Jerusalem.  (although if it were to be built in the near future, there would currently be practically nobody who would know how to use it!  Certainly none of these self-proclaimes Levites!).
               Though certainly the Temple Institute and the Temple Mount Faithful are doing considerable work towards recovering knowledge of these things.
        Unfortunately, there has been a false teaching spreading throughout the messianic circles saying that since the Levites had no land inheritance, that anyone who fits this mold must be a Levite.  Now, men who are too lazy to work or decide that they want to live off the donations of the working class because THEIR work is SOOOOOOO important come to the idiotic conclusion that they MUST be Levites! 
               So now the word "lazy" comes into play?  Is Michael more lazy than say Zola Levitt or any other person that produces TV shows, leads tour groups, and travels around preaching?  Perhaps Vicky is saying that every pastor out there should have a "real job" rather than just getting paid to lead a congregation?  I guess we would need to know more about what your guidelines would be for people who do this sort of thing for a living would be.
        The Formative Years
        During the 1970s and 80s, Michael Rood spent about 9 years in a cult known as "The Way", which was a splinter group off of the "World-Wide Church of God" which had all sorts of problems. 
               Yep, in fact he started out his 2003 tour with the words "for years I was in a cult and in deep deception...."   Okay, so he has apparently repented of this, is something more required? Self-flagulation or what?
        In his speaking engagements, Michael Rood claims to hail from Michigan- specifically the Grand Rapids area.  However, Vicky Dillen investigated this and is quoted in the following statement.
               Oh! A conspiracy! The man with no past!  Vicky doesn't have a good word to say about any Messianic on her website.  She thinks that Messianics will be the one world religion of the end times.  Which is strange because that one world religion is marked by lawlessness, not by seeking Torah.  I claim that I am from the Chicago area, but if Vicky were trying to discredit me I doubt if she would have much luck find anyone in the Chicago area that knew me.  Hey I even knew John Belushi when we were kids, but more people would recognize his name than mine.
        Birds of a Feather....
         
        Michael Rood works with and endorses Avi Ben Mordechai.  Avi Ben Mordechai is a Messianic author who wrote the "Messiah" trilogy.
         
        Avi Ben Mordechai's REAL NAME is Bradley Marcus.  Like Michael Rood, it appears that "Avi" feels that he must hide his true identity in order to have any credibility.  What are they hiding?   It's apparent that Bradley Marcus chose a Jewish sounding name in order to garner more credibility among unsuspecting truth-seekers.  By adopting a Hebrew name, he can pass himself off as a Jew who has been "made complete" by accepting Jesus as the messiah.  In this way, he can appear as an expert to both Christians and Messianics (who think of him as a "Jewish Scholar").
                 Yes and Brad Marcus was a known radio personality in Colorado Springs for years.  He and Bill Berg founded KSY, the Messianic Congregation in Colorado Springs.  Brad is Jewish, his brother Uri Marcus runs Nehemiah Trustees Covenant Fund http://www.ntcf.org/ in Israel. Do you think that it is some sort of conspiracy when you attend synagogue and they call up Joe Feinberg to the Torah reading and then they call him Chaim ben Dov (or whatever)?  Are you at all familiar with the concept of a Diaspora name versus an Aliyah name?  
                  Next you will be shocked and amazed that Avi Lipkin http://www.yourisraelconnection.org/avi_lipkin.htm calls himself Victor Morecai. http://www.vicmord.com/ 
        "Avi Ben Mordechai" works closely with Nehemiah Gordon who is allegedly a Karaite,
               Allegedly?  Where did that word come from in this discussion?  As already demonstrated by their website Nehemia is Karaite, their USA site also mentions him here: http://www.karaites-usa.org/holy_days_2004.htm
        which takes us back around to Michael Rood's connection to Karaism.  Karaism is a very small sect of Jews that are considered to be heretical by the orthodox. 
              The orthodox consider the Reform to be heretical, so what else is new? If you aren't Orthodox you are a heretic.  In fact even then it depends on the sect you are in.  Many of the Orthodox think that Chabad is heretical.
        Nehemiah Gordon is supposed to have worked with Emanuel Tov on the translation of Dead Sea Scroll documents, however in all my web-searches of Tov's works, I did not encounter any mention of N. Gordon.  Biblical Archaeology Review has printed many articles referrencing Tov, and most of them were critical of his work- yet none of them mentioned the contributions of Nehemiah Gordon as far as I could find.
              You didn't look very hard.  In just a very few minutes I was able to turn up the following evidence of his helping Tov on the Dead Sea Scrolls Publication Project:
        You could have even checked the Denver University Library to find a mention of his contribution:
        My question is this:  If Nehemiah Gordon is indeed a world-class scholar, who is fluent in Hebrew, Aramaic, Syriac, and Greek, and was chosen by Emanuel Tov to work on the Dead Sea Scrolls, the world's greatest archaeological treasure to date, then why in the hell would he affiliate with two blatant frauds???  Especially one who parades around in public dressed up like Friar Tuck?
                  First, what is it that makes Brad Marcus a "blatant fraud"?  Using his Aliyah name to write under?  Avi may be a Messianic heretic (depending on which book of his you read and which wind of doctrine he is currently being blown by), but I don't see anything about him that would make the use of the word "fraud" appropriate.
                  "Friar Tuck"?  I think you would find that Michael's wardrobe owes more to Reuven Prager http://www.begedivri.com/garments.htm than to any Catholic group.
                  The reason for Nehemia's association with Messianics would presumably be to sell books.  But we can pray that with all the research he is doing into Yeshua, that conviction will come upon him.
         
         


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      • Schmuel
        Hi Folks, Subject was Re: [Simchat_Torah] Michael Rood A couple of quick comments on the Michael Rood and Nehemiah Gordon discussion. I will bypass many parts
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 9, 2005
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          Hi Folks,

          Subject was Re: [Simchat_Torah] Michael Rood

          A couple of quick comments on the Michael Rood and Nehemiah Gordon discussion. I will bypass many parts of the discussion that I don't consider very significant. Over the last few years I have had contact with most of the principles mentioned here, from Michael Rood to Nehemiah Gordon to Avi Ben Mordechai to Vicky Dillen, so I am in a position at least to share a bit.

          First, it would have been helpful to include any URLs from Vicky's site, since she was mentioned as a source, since there are quotes that don't appear to match what is currently on her site. Larry seems to have jumped to some incorrect accusatory conclusions of his own. Whatever one's view of Vicky's site, it is not fair to have an implication that she makes some of the errors in the original post, if they were simply Larry's errors.

          Daniel
          > Follow along closely: go to <http://www.karaite-korner.org/>http://www.karaite-korner.org/ click the link to <http://www.hebrewyeshua.com/>http://www.hebrewyeshua.com/ and then click on the link to <http://www.hebrewyeshua.com/tour.html>http://www.hebrewyeshua.com/tour.html so does the fact that the world Karaite website is promoting a Michael Rood tour mean anything?

          Schmuel
          While most of what you said up to here was fine, Daniel, (such as about the usage of the word Karaite) now there is a problem in your reference. . The World Karaite website is maintained by Nehemiah, or those close to him, and Nehemiah stands to make good $$$ from this tour with Rood. Nehemiah is promoting his book on the very corrupt Shem-Tob Matthew, essentially posing as Messianic-simpatico. Thus the World Karaite promotion of the Rood tour proves nothing about an sincere, honest, historical Karaite view, and really it is simply self-promotion, as Nehemiah is a principle in this tour with Rood.

          Rood's and Gordon's promotion of the ShemTob with a statement along the lines of

          "Dead Sea Scrolls New Testament"

          is simply a shoddy scam upon the Messianic public. That is not an overstatement. There was even a dispute between them for awhile, and one thing it apparently involved was trade-marking that deceptive phrase.

          When you look into the details on the ShemTob (start with the Pinchas Lapide book "Hebrew in the Church", and then there is a lot more) you will see that Rood and Gordon's advertising is grossly deceptive.)

          And yes, I talked personally to Nehemiah about this about a year ago -- essentially I would say that Nehemiah has now sold out, he formerly had integrity, he is now apparently seeing fame and $$ by partnering in this Rood/Gordon Shem-Tob scam. This is very sad, as he has had good teachings on subjects like "rabbinical authority" (quite similar to the messianic Daniel Gruber), scripture interpretation and the pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton.

          Larry
          > It's apparent that Bradley Marcus chose a Jewish sounding name in order to garner more credibility among
          > unsuspecting truth-seekers. By adopting a Hebrew name, he can pass himself off as a Jew who has been
          > "made complete" by accepting Jesus as the messiah. In this way, he can appear as an expert to both
          > Christians and Messianics (who think of him as a "Jewish Scholar").

          Daniel
          > Brad is Jewish .... Are you at all familiar with the concept of a Diaspora name versus an Aliyah name?

          Schmuel
          That information above is clearly incorrect above, in its implication that Bradley is not Jewish by birth.. However, I do not think it comes from Vicky's web-site, it could be that Larry has mixed his own commentary with the Vicky pages. If it is from Vicky, I would like to know, and I will write her to make the correction. Same with the next ones below.

          > Avi Ben Mordechai" works closely with Nehemiah Gordon who is allegedly a Karaite,

          Similar situation as above. This "allegedly" appears to be Larry's spin, not Vicky.

          And with the next paragraph.
          Apparently Larry's error, which could be mistakenly ascribed to Vicky.

          > Nehemiah Gordon is supposed to have worked with Emanuel Tov on the translation of Dead Sea Scroll
          > documents, however in all my web-searches of Tov's works, I did not encounter any mention of N.
          > Gordon.

          Daniel did a good job showing that Nehemiah is what he says on the scholarship background. He was an assistant on the Masoretic Text projects at Hebrew University, and DSS as well. I didn't even know that his name was published, but no one before this post from Larry had, afaik, doubted that background.

          Larry
          > My question is this: If Nehemiah Gordon is indeed a world-class scholar, who is fluent in Hebrew,
          > Aramaic, Syriac, and Greek, and was chosen by Emanuel Tov to work on the Dead Sea Scrolls, the world's > greatest archaeological treasure to date,

          Schmuel
          I never heard Nehemiah use that description "world-class scholar". Generally, until this Shem-Tob thing, he was straight-arrow. And I don't think he knows Greek, or claims to (correct me if wrong). From talking to him about this, he is basically ignorant on all textual and translational aspects of the New Testament, except for Shem-Tob .He acknowledged as much to me quite recently.

          Larry
          > then why.. would he affiliate with two blatant frauds???
          > Especially one who parades around in public dressed up like Friar Tuck?

          Daniel
          > First, what is it that makes Brad Marcus a "blatant fraud"? Using his Aliyah name to write under? Avi may be a Messianic heretic (depending on which book of his you read and which wind of doctrine he is currently being blown by), but I don't see anything about him that would make the use of the word "fraud" appropriate.

          Schmuel
          I agree.

          The biggest integrity problem I have seen is the reluctance to publicly denounce the Trimm HRV plagiarism scam. However, that is a second-hand problem, of his former spiritual comrade, from who he now apparently keeps some distance.

          Daniel
          >... The reason for Nehemia's association with Messianics would presumably be to sell books.

          Schmuel
          Exactly. Status and position and $$$. The Karaite world is small and not too lucrative, and as a Yeshiva-bucher become Karaite (rather than raised in the Karaite community) he probably is not really on the inside track even in that world.

          The Messianic world, as proven by the Trimm-scam, is very naive when someone plays a crafty game.
          I wouldn't put Nehemiah in the same bag as Trimm, however he is playing on the same weaknesses amongst the Messianics with the tawdry Shem-Tob "DSS-NT" promotion. It is an abomination.

          > But we can pray that with all the research he is doing into Yeshua, that conviction will come upon him.

          Yes.. but right now what we are dealing with appears to be...

          .....The love of $...

          Shalom,
          Steven Avery
          Queens, NY
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/


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        • Larry Smart
          As for my poisoning the well , I would disagree with your assesment. That was my thesis statement. Yet, it may perhaps be considered ad-hominem, it was not
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 9, 2005
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            As for my "poisoning the well", I would disagree with your assesment. That was my thesis statement. Yet, it may perhaps be considered ad-hominem, it was not intended to be an attack against Michael for the mere sake of attacking him. But my intention was that the text following would support the statement. I'll qualify some of my statements and respond to your criticisms, then offer more evidence to support my opening statement which I still stand by. (A better example of "poisoning the well" would have been if I had stated "only a kool-aid drinker would agree with Michael Rood").I stand corrected on Nehemiah Gordon... I did spend quite a bit of time doing searches on several search engines for information on him and got nothing except for the messianic sites talking about Nehemiah "The Karaite" Gordon and his work on Michael Rood's videos.Keep in mind though, that the Karaite-Korner website is run by Nehemiah Gordon and is used for promoting his book and teachings, which are not a representation of Karaism.I met Michael Rood at about the same time you did, and have been keeping up with his "teachings" ever since. Most of them from then until now has been spent selling the idea that the "Great and Terrible Day of the Lord" is just around the corner. By convincing groups of people that this was so, he sold tons of books and calendars that support his claims. Each time they didn't pan out as he predicted, he just revised his calendars and his speech. When confronted with the fact that he made false predictions in the past he would say "I never claimed to be a prophet". Well neither did Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, or any of the others!Avi Ben Mordechai may be given some grace in that he was supposedly raised in a reformed synagogue and therefore could have a Hebrew name. I still feel that it is being used in order to give him more credibility than he actually has. He writes as if he's a kabbalist and a scholar, yet his Hebrew is very weak. I'm a kabbalist also (and have been one for quite some time), and my Hebrew is far from perfect, but I'm not out writing books on the subject or doing speaking tours or classes as if I'm an expert. I have in the past held Kabbalistic Torah studies, but I made it very clear that it is a group discussion and not a class.But there is no excuse for one like Scott "James" Trimm to be using a false name and false credentials, nor Michael Rood (if he is... Right now, it's questionable, but I have someone looking into it further).I will restate my previous statement on the "Levite" or "Levite lifestyle". Lazy was not a good choice of words. I should have used the word "Mooch". People can work very hard to collect donations in order to make a living. Some people see this as a noble thing. I do not. Levites were NOT mooches. They produced tangible things as well as being teachers. They were denied land ownership within the land of Canaan - outside they could own as much as they wanted. Inside, they were granted a leasehold agreement with their brother tribesmen in exchange for their labors, wares, as well as education.I think this is further evidenced by the existance of the "Yaakov Levi Foundation", which may meet the minimum legal requirements of a "foundation". A foundation is generally a non-profit charity that is supported by an endowment. The IRS will require some non-profits to establish a foundation after a certain length of time in order to help redistribute charitable contributions, etc. The Yaakov Levi Foundation seems to only support one charity, and that is the lifestyle of Michael Rood.Other than land within Canaan, Levites could own all sorts of property. They were not poor by any stretch of the imagination! Michael's bogus teaching that Levites cannot even own a car is BS. There are plenty of true Levites around today, and there is nothing preventing them from owning property or land (even in Israel). His "Levite lifestyle" is nothing more than an outward attempt to appear more pious than the common people so that he can get guilt people into giving bigger donations.I know Reuven Prager, I've hired him to come and speak in Denver on several occasions. I buy his materials, and I even own one of his "friar tuck" costumes. (Mine is the red version of Michael's blue one). However, I do not wear it around in public. I own it with an understanding that perhaps resembles the garb worn during the 2nd Temple period, nothing more. There's nothing magical or extra-spiritual about wearing it.I've been on both sides of this. When I taught Hebrew at Ralph's so-called "Yeshiva", I was required to wear it. It was a way to differentiate me from the others. A way to elevate me above the students and other congregants. This is why Ralph wears his. And although, I know Michael's teachings on the Nicolatians, I suspect that it's his way of making himself stand out from the "laity". Perhaps I'm wrong on that...However, togas were once the in fashion around that time too. Should we go back to those? Or what about the turbans that were worn? Some of the greatest Jewish sages wore big blue turbans with a massive jewell in the place of the head-tefillin; why not adopt those?I love Reuven's teachings about 2nd Temple history, however I see it as history not as the future. The commandments for tzitzis and tallis were reminders of a deeper truth. Modern adaptations for tzitzis (arba kanfos, tallis g'dol) were not "zekhers" (remembrances/reminders) for the previous style of clothing. That's totally missing the point!Reuven is very intelligent, discusses halakha with Jewish authorities, and understands the extent of the importance of his work. From what I've seen the followers of these messies who promote and sell Reuven's stuff do not. They seem to think that G-d likes it when you wear "Biblical clothing" and hates it when you don't. Reuven does not think this way. He sees clothing and customs as a way to reconnect with our Jewish ancestors, not to please G-d.I'm curious to see the financial reports for Michael Rood's charity and the Yaakov Levi Foundation. Has anyone done this? How much $$$ is this guy making from his bogus teachings?-Larry--- Daniel Segard wrote:
            > lasmart613@... wrote: > Putting the "Messy" in Messianic > > While it is important that we warn the people about > the fraud "Rabbi" Ralph Messer, it is also important > that we alert those same people about the other > frauds within the messianic movement as well. > > With this in mind, I'd like to initiate a discussion > on Michael Rood... > > > With trepidation I'll stick my neck out and > speak on this issue since I have known Michael since > I first met him at Ralph's Torah Study at 120th on a > Sunday evening way back in 1998 or 99. I am not > necessarily a proponent of Michael Rood, but I do > feel that what he teaches is reasonably good and > would be important for much of the traditional > Christian church to hear. > > Just like most other scam artists, Michael Rood's > fraud begins with false credentials and bogus > titles. > > This tends to fall into the logical fallacy > called "poisoning the well", that is to say the > article starts out by calling him a "scam artist" > and "fraud" prior to establishing anything. > > Over the years Michael Rood has used these titles to > promote his religious paranoia and "end of the > world" theories: > > "Rabbi" Michael Rood - Michael is not Jewish and has > never attended any Rabbinical seminary to justify > his use of the title "Rabbi". > > Of all of the Messianic Movement that I am > aware of I only recall hearing of 2 or 3 ordained > rabbis that actually became Believers in Yeshua. My > personal position is that Messianic leaders > shouldn't seek to be called rabbi since such titles > tend to go to their heads and that sort of thinking > promotes the doctrine of the Nicolatians. (That > there are 2 classes: Nico (rulers) and Laity (common > folks). > But assuming the use of the term rabbi > (meaning "teacher") was acceptable, how would we > then judge from Scripture whether a person is a > rabbi or not? Does Scripture indicate that a rabbi > must go to seminary for a number of years? Yeshua > was called "rabbi", who did he learn from and what > seminary did he attend? > In his now defunct website www.6001.com, he referred > to himself as "Messianic Karaite Rabbi Rood". > > First of all Karaite Jews are NOT Messianic. There > is no such thing as a "Messianic Karaite". > And Danny Miller, the head of the Messianic > Congregation in Fort Collins, says that the Fort > Collins congregation is Messianic Chassidic. But > obviously the Chassidic movement doesn't accept > Yeshua. Similarly, using the term "Messianic Jews" > is considered incorrect since Jews don't believe in > Yeshua. Okay, so some Jews do believe in Yeshua, so > then the thought is "they are no longer Jews". And > Danny Miller's congregation performs the service > from the Siddur in flawless Hebrew, so maybe they > are Chassidic. Likewise, Karaites are Jews that > accept the authority of Scripture but reject > rabbinic authority, so those Messianic Jews who > reject rabbinic authority could probably use the > term Karaite to describe their belief system. But > using the terms Karaite and Rabbi in one description > is laughable. So I would ding Michael on that one. > If he is going to be a Karaite then he can't be a > rabbi. But he hasn't had the 6001 domain in at > least 3 years, and I don't think I have seen > him calling himself rabbi in at least that long, so > let's give him the benifit of the doubt and say that > he has repented of this. > Furthermore, Karaites not only reject the notion of > Jesus being the Messiah, but they also reject > Rabbinic Law, which makes the term "Messianic > Karaite RABBI" even more ridiculous (although some > true Karaite synagogues to have "Rabbis", but many > are just referred to as "Rav" which is more like the > English "Mr" or "Sir"). No Karaite would endorse a > Messianic "teacher" and certainly not refer to one > as a "Rabbi". > Follow along closely: go to > http://www.karaite-korner.org/ click the link to > http://www.hebrewyeshua.com/ and then click on the > link to http://www.hebrewyeshua.com/tour.html so > does the fact that the world Karaite website is > promoting a Michael Rood tour mean anything? While > I don't think they would ever say that they are > "endorsing" Michael, this tends to go a long way to > saying that they give him a level of credibility. > Michael Rood was raised as a Baptist and claims that > he taught in John Hagee's church (Cornerstone) to > justify his use of the title "Reverand". > Could you quote me something from Scripture > that permits or limits the use of the term > "Reverand"? Is that a term reserved only for the > NICO or can we laity use it as well according to > Scripture? > > Michael's sermon at Beth Messiah on January > 1st actually mentioned the Hagee connection, with > Michael saying that he had attended Hagee's > congregation and attended Sunday School classes > there with his daughters. Michael went on to say > that it was amazing how sitting under the supposed > "covering" of a big name pastor like Hagee would > open doors. Michael said that he could go to a small > congregation and say "Hi I'm from John Hagee's > church" and because of that supposed "covering" he > would be welcomed with open arms. > His sermon went on to say that such use of > "covering" is completely inappropriate and that he > has since been convicted that men are to have no > "covering" other than Messiah Yeshua. That we don't > need a rabbi between us and Yeshua, and we certainly > don't need a layer of coverings such as Parish > priest, Bishop, Archbishop, Cardinal and Pope. So > from his sermon, I would say he pretty much has > repented of whatever it is that he is being accused > of here. > Michael Rood also refers to himself as a "Levite" > although acknowledging that he was not born a > Levite. Well then, in this case he shoots his own > foot. Levitical law clearly states that the only > way to be a "Levite" is to be born one. > Actually I think you are misunderstanding > Rood's use of the term here. Michael says that he > "lives like a Levite". That is to say that the > Levites had no inheritence in the land, and had to > live off of what the rest of Israel gave to them. > So perhaps saying that he is an independant circuit > riding evangelist would be less offensive? > Levites are given recognition in synagogues in order > to preserve the identity of this tribe and to keep > it pure. There is no special "annointing" or > "privilege' of being a Levite. Back in the times of > the Temple, they did the work inside the Temple. > This is an art that has been lost along with the > destruction of the Temple. The memory and identity > of Levites is preserved for one reason and one > reason only, and that is to keep the hope alive for > the construction of a new Temple in Jerusalem. > (although if it were to be built in the near future, > there would currently be practically nobody who > would know how to use it! Certainly none of these > self-proclaimes Levites!). > Though certainly the Temple Institute and the > Temple Mount Faithful are doing considerable work > towards recovering knowledge of these things. > Unfortunately, there has been a false teaching > spreading throughout the messianic circles saying > that since the Levites had no land inheritance, that > anyone who fits this mold must be a Levite. Now, > men who are too lazy to work or decide that they > want to live off the donations of the working class > because THEIR work is SOOOOOOO important come to the > idiotic conclusion that they MUST be Levites! > So now the word "lazy" comes into play? Is > Michael more lazy than say Zola Levitt or any other > person that produces TV shows, leads tour groups, > and travels around preaching? Perhaps Vicky is > saying that every pastor out there should have a > "real job" rather than just getting paid to lead a > congregation? I guess we would need to know more > about what your guidelines would be for people who > do this sort of thing for a living would be. > The Formative Years > > During the 1970s and 80s, Michael Rood spent about 9 > years in a cult known as "The Way", which was a > splinter group off of the "World-Wide Church of God" > which had all sorts of problems. > Yep, in fact he started out his 2003 tour > with the words "for years I was in a cult and in > deep deception...." Okay, so he has apparently > repented of this, is something more required? > Self-flagulation or what? > In his speaking engagements, Michael Rood claims to > hail from Michigan- specifically the Grand Rapids > area. However, Vicky Dillen investigated this and > is quoted in the following statement. > Oh! A conspiracy! The man with no past! > Vicky doesn't have a good word to say about any > Messianic on her website. She thinks that > Messianics will be the one world religion of the end > times. Which is strange because that one world > religion is marked by lawlessness, not by seeking > Torah. I claim that I am from the Chicago area, but > if Vicky were trying to discredit me I doubt if she > would have much luck find anyone in the Chicago area > that knew me. Hey I even knew John Belushi when we > were
            === message truncated ===


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          • Daniel Segard
            Schmuel wrote: The World Karaite website is maintained by Nehemiah, or those close to him, and Nehemiah stands to make good $$$ from this
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 12, 2005
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              Schmuel <schmuel@...> wrote:

              The World Karaite website is maintained by Nehemiah, or those close to him, and Nehemiah stands to make good $$$ from this tour with Rood.   Nehemiah is promoting his book on the very corrupt Shem-Tob Matthew, essentially posing as Messianic-simpatico.   Thus the World Karaite promotion of the Rood tour proves nothing about an sincere, honest, historical Karaite view, and really it is simply self-promotion, as Nehemiah is a principle in this tour with Rood.

                    Obviously the question of any actually backing or support of Gordon by Karaites in general is problematic.  Since Karaites, by definition, tend not to have any real leadership, one would have to locate them and take a survey as to what they individually thought of this matter.

              Rood's and Gordon's promotion of the ShemTob with a statement along the lines of

                 "Dead Sea Scrolls New Testament"

              is simply a shoddy scam upon the Messianic public. That is not an overstatement.   There was even a dispute between them for awhile, and one thing it apparently involved was trade-marking that deceptive phrase.

                    I tend to view it more as "marketing hype" than "shoddy scam". This along with the "Raiders of the Lost Book" slogan seemed to me more towards making the seminar actually seem interesting. Many people would rather watch paint dry than attend a lecture on textual analysis.  Obviously both Rood and Gordon want to get people to show up for their seminars, so a degree of hype in the advertising is almost to be expected.

              I never heard Nehemiah use that description "world-class scholar".  Generally, until this Shem-Tob thing, he was straight-arrow.  And I don't think he knows Greek, or claims to (correct me if wrong).

                   My understanding of what was said in the lecture is that his knowledge of Greek was somewhat limited, but that he can read it, his primary fluency is in Hebrew and Aramaic. So his knowledge of Greek is probably much better than mine, but not as good as a professional Greek scholar.

               From talking to him about this, he is basically ignorant on all textual and translational aspects of the New Testament, except for Shem-Tob  .He acknowledged as much to me quite recently.

                   And considering his background I certainly wouldn't consider that to be surprising.

              The biggest integrity problem I have seen is the reluctance to publicly denounce the Trimm HRV plagiarism scam.  However, that is a second-hand problem, of his former spiritual comrade, from who he now apparently keeps some distance.

                     I would put this under the old principle of "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all".  Some are quick to speak evil of a person. Others try to give everyone the benifit of the doubt, and are slow to reveal the faults of a person. The term lashon hara isn't restricted to gossip of a false nature.  

              Daniel
              >...          The reason for Nehemia's association with Messianics would presumably be to sell books.

              Schmuel
              Exactly.  Status and position and $$$. 

                   I would personally hesitate to judge his motivations to that extent.  The $ reason I can certainly see a rational conclusion on. But status and position? I would think that his assocation with all of us "Messianic heretics" would be more likely to reduce his status and position in the Karaite world, not raise it.  And while obviously the status of his name is raised within the Messianic community, what good does that do him? Unless he is actually part of our community, the status level wouldn't seem to accomplish anything.

                   Obviously there will be a certain level of appreciation for him within the Messianic community since many are glad to hear from any Jew that is non-Messianic that is actually willing to talk to the Messianic Community. Dan Cohn-Sherbok being invited to be the keynote speaker at the UMJC convention would come to mind.

               

               

               


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            • Daniel Segard
              Larry Smart wrote: As for my poisoning the well , I would disagree with your assesment. That was my thesis statement. Yet, it may
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 12, 2005
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                Larry Smart <lasmart613@...> wrote:

                As for my "poisoning the well", I would disagree with your assesment. That was my thesis statement. Yet, it may perhaps be considered ad-hominem, it was not intended to be an attack against Michael for the mere sake of attacking him. But my intention was that the text following would support the statement. I'll qualify some of my statements and respond to your criticisms, then offer more evidence to support my opening statement which I still stand by. (A better example of "poisoning the well" would have been if I had stated "only a kool-aid drinker would agree with Michael Rood").

                       It came across to me as more of a "don't attend his seminars; the man is a fraudulent Friar Tuck" or something of the sort.  Attempting to keep the reader (few that they may be in this forum) from listening to someone else. Such as "don't listen to my opponent, he is a known fraud".

                 I met Michael Rood at about the same time you did, and have been keeping up with his "teachings" ever since. Most of them from then until now has been spent selling the idea that the "Great and Terrible Day of the Lord" is just around the corner.

                       Well that Day probably isn't getting any further away.  However, I told him at the time that he would be better off contemplating the parable of the 10 virgins.  The 10 went out at the time when they thought the Bridegroom was approaching.  He tarried so they all fell asleep.  This basic theme can be carried across to a number of times in history, be it the 1840's Adventist prediction, the 88 Reasons for 1988, Y2K or any of Rood's predictions which aim to set dates.

                By convincing groups of people that this was so, he sold tons of books and calendars that support his claims. Each time they didn't pan out as he predicted, he just revised his calendars and his speech.

                      More revision is needed.  His hot off the press new book that is in Christian bookstores now has an old chart printed on page 98.  According to the chart the Abomination of Desolation occured last Nisan 10 and the Two Witnesses have been walking the streets since then.  He'll be promoting the book at the Christian Booksellers Convention in Denver in a few months. We should all wander by, flip the book open and ask him about that.  Obviously someone in proof-reading should have revised the chart, or just not inserted it in the first place.

                Avi Ben Mordechai may be given some grace in that he was supposedly raised in a reformed synagogue and therefore could have a Hebrew name. I still feel that it is being used in order to give him more credibility than he actually has.

                      I'm not sure that a pen name gives a person credibility.  Do you feel the same way about "Boaz Michael" of First Fruits of Zion or would you count him as a fraud as well?

                He writes as if he's a kabbalist and a scholar, yet his Hebrew is very weak. I'm a kabbalist also (and have been one for quite some time), and my Hebrew is far from perfect, but I'm not out writing books on the subject or doing speaking tours or classes as if I'm an expert. I have in the past held Kabbalistic Torah studies, but I made it very clear that it is a group discussion and not a class.

                       I know, but this makes it even more amazing to me that you would use Vicky Dillen as a source.  If she were writing about you what would she say?  She would say you are an occultist with close ties to the Masonic Lodge.

                 But there is no excuse for one like Scott "James" Trimm to be using a false name and false credentials,

                         That is James Scott Trimm.  Where is the "false name" issue coming from? I probably know him longer than almost anyone else in Denver. Back in the days before everyone had Internet in their house I was running a BBS called Midrash, it was part of Fidonet (1:104/18), and in 1988 I help found the Messianic Jewish Computer Network (Midrash was 8:7002/1), it was through that network that Trimm decided to move to Denver, when things got too hot for him with Eisenberg.  Yes, he was using his middle name back then, and yes, he is using his first name now. But to the best I can tell both names are his. He originally published as James Scott Trimm, and initialed his email as JST.  The attempt to use a diploma mill degree I will agree is unethical.

                 nor Michael Rood  (if he is... Right now, it's questionable, but I have someone looking into it further). I will restate my previous statement on the "Levite" or "Levite lifestyle". Lazy was not a good choice of words. I should have used the word "Mooch". People can work very hard to collect donations in order to make a living. Some people see this as a noble thing. I do not. Levites were NOT mooches.

                       Agreed.  But this would be an entirely different topic of discussion.  For that topic we would need to discuss exactly what the guidelines are for different forms of ministers who don't have an outside job.  Should a congregation pay a salary to their minister, or is he a mooch unless he holds an outside job?  If he does pastoral counseling should each person pay him for time individually rather than him getting a salary? The same sort of question goes for national ministries.  Does a person with a radio or TV ministry not require a salary, while the local 1 hour a day newscaster does deserve a salary?  Presumably the newscaster does a bit less actual work since others write the copy, and all he has to do is read it.

                I know Reuven Prager, I've hired him to come and speak in Denver on several occasions. I buy his materials, and I even own one of his "friar tuck" costumes. (Mine is the red version of Michael's blue one).

                       I think I have seen Michael on video in red as well.

                 However, I do not wear it around in public.

                       Depending on your definition of "public" neither does Michael. In public he dresses more like Indiana Jones, it is only when he is "on stage" that he is in costume.  I tend to give him a pass on this.  It seems to me to be more a case of "setting" something of a "let's step back in time to the days when Scripture was given...."  To give the audience a sense of connection with the past.

                And although, I know Michael's teachings on the Nicolatians, I suspect that it's his way of making himself stand out from the "laity". Perhaps I'm wrong on that...

                       From where I am coming from I would have trouble reading such desires into him.

                However, togas were once the in fashion around that time too. Should we go back to those?

                        I suppose if you are attempting to have a setting of the Caesars or Greek philosophers then I could see the presenter dressing in a toga to play the part.  I see such a toga only mentioned once in Scripture:

                Mark 14:51-52  And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold on him: And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.

                Or what about the turbans that were worn? Some of the greatest Jewish sages wore big blue turbans with a massive jewell in the place of the head-tefillin; why not adopt those?

                       Or why not mandate that when ministers are doing outside work they should dress just like the Apostle Peter did when he was doing his outside job?

                John 21:7  Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher�s coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.

                       He performed his outside job naked and only put on his coat when going to follow the Messiah.  We could build a whole doctrine on this...... 

                 I love Reuven's teachings about 2nd Temple history, however I see it as history not as the future.

                      So Reuven is allowed to dress that way when teaching on the 2nd Temple, but when Michael dresses that way to teach on "The Secrets of Solomon's Temple" that somehow it is improper?

                I'm curious to see the financial reports for Michael Rood's charity and the Yaakov Levi Foundation. Has anyone done this? How much $$$ is this guy making from his bogus teachings?

                       I wouldn't mind seeing that either.  Of course living in Israel is expensive, and so is video production.

                 


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              • Schmuel
                Hi Simchat_Torah, Thank you Daniel, most of our disagreement is simply one of perspective, and my view that there are many strange attacks on the NT text and
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 14, 2005
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                  Hi Simchat_Torah,

                    Thank you Daniel, most of our disagreement is simply one of perspective, and my view that
                  there are many strange attacks on the NT text and the Name of Messiah that must be countered.

                     After this dialog, I revisited the promotional material of Rood and Gordon.
                    You can see my discussion of the depth of the deception at
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/message/9095

                  Shabbat Shalom,
                  Schmuel



                  Schmuel <schmuel@...> wrote:
                  The World Karaite website is maintained by Nehemiah, or those close to him, and Nehemiah stands to make good $$$ from this tour with Rood.   Nehemiah is promoting his book on the very corrupt Shem-Tob Matthew, essentially posing as Messianic-simpatico.   Thus the World Karaite promotion of the Rood tour proves nothing about an sincere, honest, historical Karaite view, and really it is simply self-promotion, as Nehemiah is a principle in this tour with Rood.

                  Daniel
                        Obviously the question of any actually backing or support of Gordon by Karaites in general is problematic.  Since Karaites, by definition, tend not to have any real leadership, one would have to locate them and take a survey as to what they individually thought of this matter.
                • Larry Smart
                  Hey Schmuel! I read your analysis of the Gordon/Rood ad at the link you posted, and I really feel that you should cross-post it to this group. It needs to be
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jan 16, 2005
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                    Hey Schmuel! 
                     
                    I read your analysis of the Gordon/Rood ad at the link you posted, and I really feel that you should cross-post it to this group.  It needs to be seen by all.
                     
                    Thanks in advance. 
                     
                    -Larry


                    Schmuel <schmuel@...> wrote:
                    Hi Simchat_Torah,

                      Thank you Daniel, most of our disagreement is simply one of perspective, and my view that
                    there are many strange attacks on the NT text and the Name of Messiah that must be countered.

                       After this dialog, I revisited the promotional material of Rood and Gordon.
                      You can see my discussion of the depth of the deception at
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/message/9095

                    Shabbat Shalom,
                    Schmuel



                    Schmuel <schmuel@...> wrote:
                    The World Karaite website is maintained by Nehemiah, or those close to him, and Nehemiah stands to make good $$$ from this tour with Rood.   Nehemiah is promoting his book on the very corrupt Shem-Tob Matthew, essentially posing as Messianic-simpatico.   Thus the World Karaite promotion of the Rood tour proves nothing about an sincere, honest, historical Karaite view, and really it is simply self-promotion, as Nehemiah is a principle in this tour with Rood.

                    Daniel
                          Obviously the question of any actually backing or support of Gordon by Karaites in general is problematic.  Since Karaites, by definition, tend not to have any real leadership, one would have to locate them and take a survey as to what they individually thought of this matter.


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                  • Larry Smart
                    I wanted to address the issue of using Vicky Dillen as a source (which I forgot to do in my previous post)... There is nothing wrong with her research into the
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jan 16, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I wanted to address the issue of using Vicky Dillen as a source
                      (which I forgot to do in my previous post)...

                      There is nothing wrong with her research into the behaviors and
                      misrepresentations made by these so-called teachers, "rabbis",
                      and "scholars". When I've contacted her, she's always had documents
                      to back her research, and much of it she posts on her website as
                      well...

                      Her religious beliefs differ from mine, but that is irrelevant. She
                      may consider me a Masonic Occultist/Rabbinic Jew, or whatever-- I
                      don't hold that against her. I realize that her religious views
                      cause her to oppose those types of teachings. And she has a right to
                      those beliefs.

                      But her statements about many within the Messianic movement are
                      accurate and have been corroborated by others. Her religious opinion
                      on Messianic Judaism is hers, and is not important to me. I leave my
                      opinion about it out as well.

                      -Larry


                      --- In Simchat_Torah@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Segard <dsegard@y...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Larry Smart <lasmart613@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > As for my "poisoning the well", I would disagree with your
                      assesment. That was my thesis statement. Yet, it may perhaps be
                      considered ad-hominem, it was not intended to be an attack against
                      Michael for the mere sake of attacking him. But my intention was that
                      the text following would support the statement. I'll qualify some of
                      my statements and respond to your criticisms, then offer more
                      evidence to support my opening statement which I still stand by. (A
                      better example of "poisoning the well" would have been if I had
                      stated "only a kool-aid drinker would agree with Michael Rood").
                      >
                      > It came across to me as more of a "don't attend his
                      seminars; the man is a fraudulent Friar Tuck" or something of the
                      sort. Attempting to keep the reader (few that they may be in this
                      forum) from listening to someone else. Such as "don't listen to my
                      opponent, he is a known fraud".
                      >
                      > I met Michael Rood at about the same time you did, and have been
                      keeping up with his "teachings" ever since. Most of them from then
                      until now has been spent selling the idea that the "Great and
                      Terrible Day of the Lord" is just around the corner.
                      >
                      > Well that Day probably isn't getting any further away.
                      However, I told him at the time that he would be better off
                      contemplating the parable of the 10 virgins. The 10 went out at the
                      time when they thought the Bridegroom was approaching. He tarried so
                      they all fell asleep. This basic theme can be carried across to a
                      number of times in history, be it the 1840's Adventist prediction,
                      the 88 Reasons for 1988, Y2K or any of Rood's predictions which aim
                      to set dates.
                      >
                      > By convincing groups of people that this was so, he sold tons of
                      books and calendars that support his claims. Each time they didn't
                      pan out as he predicted, he just revised his calendars and his
                      speech.
                      >
                      > More revision is needed. His hot off the press new book that
                      is in Christian bookstores now has an old chart printed on page 98.
                      According to the chart the Abomination of Desolation occured last
                      Nisan 10 and the Two Witnesses have been walking the streets since
                      then. He'll be promoting the book at the Christian Booksellers
                      Convention in Denver in a few months. We should all wander by, flip
                      the book open and ask him about that. Obviously someone in proof-
                      reading should have revised the chart, or just not inserted it in the
                      first place.
                      >
                      > Avi Ben Mordechai may be given some grace in that he was supposedly
                      raised in a reformed synagogue and therefore could have a Hebrew
                      name. I still feel that it is being used in order to give him more
                      credibility than he actually has.
                      >
                      > I'm not sure that a pen name gives a person credibility. Do
                      you feel the same way about "Boaz Michael" of First Fruits of Zion or
                      would you count him as a fraud as well?
                      >
                      > He writes as if he's a kabbalist and a scholar, yet his Hebrew is
                      very weak. I'm a kabbalist also (and have been one for quite some
                      time), and my Hebrew is far from perfect, but I'm not out writing
                      books on the subject or doing speaking tours or classes as if I'm an
                      expert. I have in the past held Kabbalistic Torah studies, but I made
                      it very clear that it is a group discussion and not a class.
                      >
                      > I know, but this makes it even more amazing to me that you
                      would use Vicky Dillen as a source. If she were writing about you
                      what would she say? She would say you are an occultist with close
                      ties to the Masonic Lodge.
                      >
                      > But there is no excuse for one like Scott "James" Trimm to be
                      using a false name and false credentials,
                      >
                      > That is James Scott Trimm. Where is the "false name"
                      issue coming from? I probably know him longer than almost anyone else
                      in Denver. Back in the days before everyone had Internet in their
                      house I was running a BBS called Midrash, it was part of Fidonet
                      (1:104/18), and in 1988 I help found the Messianic Jewish Computer
                      Network (Midrash was 8:7002/1), it was through that network that
                      Trimm decided to move to Denver, when things got too hot for him with
                      Eisenberg. Yes, he was using his middle name back then, and yes, he
                      is using his first name now. But to the best I can tell both names
                      are his. He originally published as James Scott Trimm, and initialed
                      his email as JST. The attempt to use a diploma mill degree I will
                      agree is unethical.
                      >
                      > nor Michael Rood (if he is... Right now, it's questionable, but I
                      have someone looking into it further). I will restate my previous
                      statement on the "Levite" or "Levite lifestyle". Lazy was not a good
                      choice of words. I should have used the word "Mooch". People can work
                      very hard to collect donations in order to make a living. Some people
                      see this as a noble thing. I do not. Levites were NOT mooches.
                      >
                      > Agreed. But this would be an entirely different topic of
                      discussion. For that topic we would need to discuss exactly what the
                      guidelines are for different forms of ministers who don't have an
                      outside job. Should a congregation pay a salary to their minister,
                      or is he a mooch unless he holds an outside job? If he does pastoral
                      counseling should each person pay him for time individually rather
                      than him getting a salary? The same sort of question goes for
                      national ministries. Does a person with a radio or TV ministry not
                      require a salary, while the local 1 hour a day newscaster does
                      deserve a salary? Presumably the newscaster does a bit less actual
                      work since others write the copy, and all he has to do is read it.
                      >
                      > I know Reuven Prager, I've hired him to come and speak in Denver on
                      several occasions. I buy his materials, and I even own one of
                      his "friar tuck" costumes. (Mine is the red version of Michael's blue
                      one).
                      >
                      > I think I have seen Michael on video in red as well.
                      >
                      > However, I do not wear it around in public.
                      >
                      > Depending on your definition of "public" neither does
                      Michael. In public he dresses more like Indiana Jones, it is only
                      when he is "on stage" that he is in costume. I tend to give him a
                      pass on this. It seems to me to be more a case of "setting"
                      something of a "let's step back in time to the days when Scripture
                      was given...." To give the audience a sense of connection with the
                      past.
                      >
                      > And although, I know Michael's teachings on the Nicolatians, I
                      suspect that it's his way of making himself stand out from
                      the "laity". Perhaps I'm wrong on that...
                      >
                      > From where I am coming from I would have trouble reading
                      such desires into him.
                      >
                      > However, togas were once the in fashion around that time too.
                      Should we go back to those?
                      >
                      > I suppose if you are attempting to have a setting of the
                      Caesars or Greek philosophers then I could see the presenter dressing
                      in a toga to play the part. I see such a toga only mentioned once in
                      Scripture:
                      >
                      > Mark 14:51-52 And there followed him a certain young man, having a
                      linen cloth cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold on
                      him: And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.
                      >
                      > Or what about the turbans that were worn? Some of the greatest
                      Jewish sages wore big blue turbans with a massive jewell in the place
                      of the head-tefillin; why not adopt those?
                      >
                      > Or why not mandate that when ministers are doing outside
                      work they should dress just like the Apostle Peter did when he was
                      doing his outside job?
                      >
                      > John 21:7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto
                      Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the
                      Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did
                      cast himself into the sea.
                      >
                      > He performed his outside job naked and only put on his coat
                      when going to follow the Messiah. We could build a whole doctrine on
                      this......
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I love Reuven's teachings about 2nd Temple history, however I see
                      it as history not as the future.
                      >
                      > So Reuven is allowed to dress that way when teaching on the
                      2nd Temple, but when Michael dresses that way to teach on "The
                      Secrets of Solomon's Temple" that somehow it is improper?
                      >
                      > I'm curious to see the financial reports for Michael Rood's charity
                      and the Yaakov Levi Foundation. Has anyone done this? How much $$$ is
                      this guy making from his bogus teachings?
                      >
                      > I wouldn't mind seeing that either. Of course living in
                      Israel is expensive, and so is video production.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
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