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Welcome and a question of everyone

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  • generalskull_wtx
    Hi guys...I first want to make sure that I welcome everyone to this egroup. Other than maybe one person here so far...I know everyone. At this point, I think
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 1, 2004
      Hi guys...I first want to make sure that I welcome everyone to this
      egroup. Other than maybe one person here so far...I know everyone.
      At this point, I think that everyone here now is, or has been, a
      fighter of one kind or another. Either with live steel, amtgard
      weapons, martial arts empty hands or weapons, or ground fighting of
      some kind.
      This group is going to cater to ONLY fighters. I've had several
      people ask to become a member...but if they aren't fighters or at
      least willing to learn...then they probably need to join a different
      group.
      So I'm really excited about this whole thing and can't wait to tie it
      on with some of you. SOME I've fought several times in the past but
      others I've not had a chance to play with yet.
      Now...even though we've only got nine members on the group as of
      right now...several of us live across the state from others. Dallas,
      San Antonio, Houston, and I'm sure we'll have more from other areas.
      So as far as training goes...we may have to stick to people in our
      general area first. Maybe we can all get together at fests and set
      up some time to work out together.
      We probably won't be having any big meetings or things like
      that...because we'll already know each others ranks. We can either
      do what we say...or we can't. And if we can't...the others in the
      group will help bring your skills up to par.
      The daggers we'll carry are made by starfire swords. The handles
      will be wrapped in a silvery leather. I've got an email into Dean
      with Red Castle...they sell the starfire weapons at TRF...to see what
      kind of deal he can make us.
      BUT...I have a question for everyone. So feel free to give your
      opponions here. If you don't speak up...and we make a choice without
      you...then that's just the way it is.
      If you go to the www.starfireswords.com and look at their daggers,
      they have basically two types. One WITH a quillion and one WITHOUT a
      quillion. Or the cross piece. I would like for everyone in the
      group to carry the exact same dagger...and as a martial artist who
      does a LOT of knife fighting...I like the dagger without the quillion
      better. It makes for something LESS to snag on clothing or get in
      the way of catching on your opponents weapons. It also makes it
      easier to do knife disarms if I can get my thumb along the blade.
      With a quillion...I can't do that.
      BUT...since this is a renaissance group...and a quillion might go
      better with some people's costumes...some of you might like that
      better. I guess that realistically...it probably doesn't matter that
      much...but I would like to get some feedback on this.

      Welcome to everyone again...

      Curt/General Skull
    • M Graves
      Good to be here Gen. In my practice with both dagger and reverse dagger style, I ve been unable to move as smoothly with a quillion on it without getting my
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 1, 2004
        Good to be here Gen.
        In my practice with both dagger and reverse dagger
        style, I've been unable to move as smoothly with a
        quillion on it without getting my own wrist or thumb
        joint. Though the one with the guard on it is
        prettier in my standards, I prefer to go with
        functionality. The two that I use (albeit I am
        looking to replace one of them with a wider blade so I
        can have a sufficient blocking dagger) are both nons.
        The one that I haven't gotten for myself and was my
        induction gift has one and...well...good blade, but I
        can only wear it for show.

        My 2 pence, for what they're worth.

        --- generalskull_wtx <GeneralSkull@...> wrote:

        >
        > Hi guys...I first want to make sure that I welcome
        > everyone to this
        > egroup. Other than maybe one person here so far...I
        > know everyone.
        > At this point, I think that everyone here now is, or
        > has been, a
        > fighter of one kind or another. Either with live
        > steel, amtgard
        > weapons, martial arts empty hands or weapons, or
        > ground fighting of
        > some kind.
        > This group is going to cater to ONLY fighters. I've
        > had several
        > people ask to become a member...but if they aren't
        > fighters or at
        > least willing to learn...then they probably need to
        > join a different
        > group.
        > So I'm really excited about this whole thing and
        > can't wait to tie it
        > on with some of you. SOME I've fought several times
        > in the past but
        > others I've not had a chance to play with yet.
        > Now...even though we've only got nine members on the
        > group as of
        > right now...several of us live across the state from
        > others. Dallas,
        > San Antonio, Houston, and I'm sure we'll have more
        > from other areas.
        > So as far as training goes...we may have to stick to
        > people in our
        > general area first. Maybe we can all get together
        > at fests and set
        > up some time to work out together.
        > We probably won't be having any big meetings or
        > things like
        > that...because we'll already know each others ranks.
        > We can either
        > do what we say...or we can't. And if we can't...the
        > others in the
        > group will help bring your skills up to par.
        > The daggers we'll carry are made by starfire swords.
        > The handles
        > will be wrapped in a silvery leather. I've got an
        > email into Dean
        > with Red Castle...they sell the starfire weapons at
        > TRF...to see what
        > kind of deal he can make us.
        > BUT...I have a question for everyone. So feel free
        > to give your
        > opponions here. If you don't speak up...and we make
        > a choice without
        > you...then that's just the way it is.
        > If you go to the www.starfireswords.com and look at
        > their daggers,
        > they have basically two types. One WITH a quillion
        > and one WITHOUT a
        > quillion. Or the cross piece. I would like for
        > everyone in the
        > group to carry the exact same dagger...and as a
        > martial artist who
        > does a LOT of knife fighting...I like the dagger
        > without the quillion
        > better. It makes for something LESS to snag on
        > clothing or get in
        > the way of catching on your opponents weapons. It
        > also makes it
        > easier to do knife disarms if I can get my thumb
        > along the blade.
        > With a quillion...I can't do that.
        > BUT...since this is a renaissance group...and a
        > quillion might go
        > better with some people's costumes...some of you
        > might like that
        > better. I guess that realistically...it probably
        > doesn't matter that
        > much...but I would like to get some feedback on
        > this.
        >
        > Welcome to everyone again...
        >
        > Curt/General Skull
        >
        >
        >
        >


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      • Robert White
        Curt- As I believe I may be the one person you don t know in the group yet, let me put in my 2 pence. From a modern knife fighting standpoint, your
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 1, 2004
          Curt-

          As I believe I may be the one person you don't know in the group yet,
          let me put in my 2 pence.

          From a modern knife fighting standpoint, your observations in your
          last email are very relevant. Modern daggers/knives are typically
          shorter in blade then their medieval/renaissance brethren and rarely
          have a quillion (kbar and bowie being notable exceptions).

          For med/ren blades we see daggers both without quillion (shown in both
          Fiore and Gladatoria for example) and with (i.e.- DiGrassi and
          Fabris). Daggers without quillion seem to be presented more in true
          knife fighting sections of the treatises while the quillion makes an
          appearance more when used in the off-hand of rapier and dagger or
          sword and dagger where catching your opponents weapon is desired.

          After all that torturing of electrons my point really is this- A
          dagger without quillion seems to me to be a better all around choice.
          It is both period for the timeline of most renaissance faires (mid
          16th century) and accurate for historical combat training, and is
          still fairly close (albeit with a slightly longer blade length) to
          most commonly carried edged weapons today to train for modern knife
          fighting.

          Rob


          On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 20:32:43 -0000, generalskull_wtx
          <generalskull@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi guys...I first want to make sure that I welcome everyone to this
          > egroup. Other than maybe one person here so far...I know everyone.
          > At this point, I think that everyone here now is, or has been, a
          > fighter of one kind or another. Either with live steel, amtgard
          > weapons, martial arts empty hands or weapons, or ground fighting of
          > some kind.
          > This group is going to cater to ONLY fighters. I've had several
          > people ask to become a member...but if they aren't fighters or at
          > least willing to learn...then they probably need to join a different
          > group.
          > So I'm really excited about this whole thing and can't wait to tie it
          > on with some of you. SOME I've fought several times in the past but
          > others I've not had a chance to play with yet.
          > Now...even though we've only got nine members on the group as of
          > right now...several of us live across the state from others. Dallas,
          > San Antonio, Houston, and I'm sure we'll have more from other areas.
          > So as far as training goes...we may have to stick to people in our
          > general area first. Maybe we can all get together at fests and set
          > up some time to work out together.
          > We probably won't be having any big meetings or things like
          > that...because we'll already know each others ranks. We can either
          > do what we say...or we can't. And if we can't...the others in the
          > group will help bring your skills up to par.
          > The daggers we'll carry are made by starfire swords. The handles
          > will be wrapped in a silvery leather. I've got an email into Dean
          > with Red Castle...they sell the starfire weapons at TRF...to see what
          > kind of deal he can make us.
          > BUT...I have a question for everyone. So feel free to give your
          > opponions here. If you don't speak up...and we make a choice without
          > you...then that's just the way it is.
          > If you go to the www.starfireswords.com and look at their daggers,
          > they have basically two types. One WITH a quillion and one WITHOUT a
          > quillion. Or the cross piece. I would like for everyone in the
          > group to carry the exact same dagger...and as a martial artist who
          > does a LOT of knife fighting...I like the dagger without the quillion
          > better. It makes for something LESS to snag on clothing or get in
          > the way of catching on your opponents weapons. It also makes it
          > easier to do knife disarms if I can get my thumb along the blade.
          > With a quillion...I can't do that.
          > BUT...since this is a renaissance group...and a quillion might go
          > better with some people's costumes...some of you might like that
          > better. I guess that realistically...it probably doesn't matter that
          > much...but I would like to get some feedback on this.
          >
          > Welcome to everyone again...
          >
          > Curt/General Skull
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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        • GeneralSkull@aol.com
          OK...that s my feeling also on this matter. In our school...we do a LOT of knife fighting...but along with just stabbing and slashing...we also do a lot of
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 1, 2004
            OK...that's my feeling also on this matter.  In our school...we do a LOT of knife fighting...but along with just stabbing and slashing...we also do a lot of knife disarms from a system called Filipino Kali.  We use the thumb a lot for hooks while fighting with knives and...again...although the quillion looks cool, it just hangs you up with you're actually trying to use the blade in a real situation.
            Well...that's 2 for no quillion...let's see what everyone else has to say.

          • GeneralSkull@aol.com
            Good point Rob. Thanks. I guess if I were using the dagger in my alive hand as we call is sometimes...and I had another weapon in my leading hand...the
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 1, 2004
              Good point Rob.  Thanks.  I guess if I were using the dagger in my "alive" hand as we call is sometimes...and I had another weapon in my leading hand...the quillion would probably be more of a use.
              OK...so that's 3 for...
              Curt
            • Lord Vandor
              Skull, As far as the daggers are concerned. If perhaps there is a way that the pommels can be made with some symbol on them or something to signify that the
              Message 6 of 8 , Dec 1, 2004
                Skull,
                 
                As far as the daggers are concerned.  If perhaps there is a way that the pommels can be made with some symbol on them or something to signify that the bearer is a member of this group, it may not matter if one gets quillions or not.
                 
                just a thought.
                 
                Lord Vandor
                The Purple Dragon of CHAOS
                Dragon in House Viper
                Gnightie Gnicking Gnome
                Master Gunner Plisskin of the yet unnamed vessel
                Durch Stange Mighty Odins hebe ich hiermit Ihre Garantie auf und sende Sie
                zurück zu Gott.
                Bin Ich Schlecht? Ja BIN Ich!!!
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 2:32 PM
                Subject: [Silver_Daggers] Welcome and a question of everyone


                Hi guys...I first want to make sure that I welcome everyone to this
                egroup.  Other than maybe one person here so far...I know everyone. 
                At this point, I think that everyone here now is, or has been, a
                fighter of one kind or another.  Either with live steel, amtgard
                weapons, martial arts empty hands or weapons, or ground fighting of
                some kind.
                This group is going to cater to ONLY fighters.  I've had several
                people ask to become a member...but if they aren't fighters or at
                least willing to learn...then they probably need to join a different
                group.
                So I'm really excited about this whole thing and can't wait to tie it
                on with some of you.  SOME I've fought several times in the past but
                others I've not had a chance to play with yet.
                Now...even though we've only got nine members on the group as of
                right now...several of us live across the state from others.  Dallas,
                San Antonio, Houston, and I'm sure we'll have more from other areas. 
                So as far as training goes...we may have to stick to people in our
                general area first.  Maybe we can all get together at fests and set
                up some time to work out together.
                We probably won't be having any big meetings or things like
                that...because we'll already know each others ranks.  We can either
                do what we say...or we can't.  And if we can't...the others in the
                group will help bring your skills up to par.
                The daggers we'll carry are made by starfire swords.  The handles
                will be wrapped in a silvery leather.  I've got an email into Dean
                with Red Castle...they sell the starfire weapons at TRF...to see what
                kind of deal he can make us.
                BUT...I have a question for everyone.  So feel free to give your
                opponions here.  If you don't speak up...and we make a choice without
                you...then that's just the way it is.
                If you go to the www.starfireswords.com and look at their daggers,
                they have basically two types.  One WITH a quillion and one WITHOUT a
                quillion.  Or the cross piece.  I would like for everyone in the
                group to carry the exact same dagger...and as a martial artist who
                does a LOT of knife fighting...I like the dagger without the quillion
                better.  It makes for something LESS to snag on clothing or get in
                the way of catching on your opponents weapons.  It also makes it
                easier to do knife disarms if I can get my thumb along the blade. 
                With a quillion...I can't do that.
                BUT...since this is a renaissance group...and a quillion might go
                better with some people's costumes...some of you might like that
                better.  I guess that realistically...it probably doesn't matter that
                much...but I would like to get some feedback on this.

                Welcome to everyone again...

                Curt/General Skull




              • GeneralSkull@aol.com
                Hey Vandor...I was sort of thinking the same thing at first...and we re actually having the grips wrapped in a special way that they won t do for anyone else.
                Message 7 of 8 , Dec 1, 2004
                  Hey Vandor...I was sort of thinking the same thing at first...and we're actually having the grips wrapped in a special way that they won't do for anyone else.  Sort of a braided silver thing.  So we'll be the only ones around with daggers like this...BUT...I also picked up some cool little daggers that can be wrapped into the grip.  I don't know if they would last for long since we'll actually be USING these daggers for training and things...but I'll talk to Dean and see what he thinks.
                  I don't have a problem with people getting the daggers with quillions on them...so long as it's the same dagger other than that...but I also think it would look cool if everyone just had the same thing.
                  Do you have a preference as to the quillion or not?  I'm really open to either if the members would rather have one instead of the other...but my personal choice would be something I could train with.
                  I've actually got one of each right now...so basically...whatever the rest of the group would like.

                  Curt
                • Lord Vandor
                  Since we would be using the daggers for training, it is highly doubtful the ones you sent a picture of would last long at all. I think the option here would be
                  Message 8 of 8 , Dec 2, 2004
                    Since we would be using the daggers for training, it is highly doubtful the ones you sent a picture of would last long at all. 
                     
                    I think the option here would be that each member would select the style that they were most comfortable with.  For me,  I can use one with quillions or without, doesn't really matter to me.  I think if we can find someone to be able to engrave the blades, or have them do this while making them, we can put an emblem or something on the blade to signify membership. 
                     
                    Also, I think a factor in the decision of which one will be price.  Any chance of getting that info?
                     
                    Lord Vandor
                    The Purple Dragon of CHAOS
                    Dragon in House Viper
                    Gnightie Gnicking Gnome
                    Master Gunner Plisskin of the yet unnamed vessel
                    Durch Stange Mighty Odins hebe ich hiermit Ihre Garantie auf und sende Sie
                    zurück zu Gott.
                    Bin Ich Schlecht? Ja BIN Ich!!!
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 9:53 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Silver_Daggers] Welcome and a question of everyone

                    Hey Vandor...I was sort of thinking the same thing at first...and we're actually having the grips wrapped in a special way that they won't do for anyone else..  Sort of a braided silver thing.  So we'll be the only ones around with daggers like this...BUT...I also picked up some cool little daggers that can be wrapped into the grip.  I don't know if they would last for long since we'll actually be USING these daggers for training and things...but I'll talk to Dean and see what he thinks.
                    I don't have a problem with people getting the daggers with quillions on them...so long as it's the same dagger other than that...but I also think it would look cool if everyone just had the same thing.
                    Do you have a preference as to the quillion or not?  I'm really open to either if the members would rather have one instead of the other...but my personal choice would be something I could train with.
                    I've actually got one of each right now...so basically...whatever the rest of the group would like.

                    Curt

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