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3566Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help: Beta Resources?

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  • heartofoshun
    Jan 4, 2014
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      Not that you wanted or needed to know all of that.
      Actually, that is exactly what I need to know before I know if I could be a good Beta for someone. That sounds like story. And one that people do in a variety of different ways. I don't think anyone would necessarily be picky about that concept.

      I also really believe in outlines! I always know the skeleton of a story before I start. That is why I do not do well when someone is reading a draft and says, "What if X did not do Y, but instead she decided to blah, blah, blah?" I am sorry I made that decision a month ago at least!


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Shannon <tineryn@...>
      To: SilmarillionWritersGuild <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sat, Jan 4, 2014 7:09 pm
      Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help: Beta Resources?

       
      "I am not likely to offer to Beta a Second Age vampire, dark fic. I kind of hooked on First Age heroic and hopeless Noldor trying to do the right thing over and over! Other people think there is no right thing for them and would prefer to see all of those types begin by jumping into an open volcano instead of ending it there, if you know what I mean. "

      I do know what you mean! Personally I could probably edit just about anything as long as I could believe it enough (I would have a hard time with Silmarillion High School AU for example, but I could probably swing the vampire fic, even if it wouldn't be my first choice to read for pleasure). I'm not sure I could edit the first age heroics, though, at least until I get through a thorough re-read of all the relevant texts. I've never been good at remembering timelines. I could do the brainstorming to a degree, in that I think a lot of problems can be resolved in the outline phase much more easily than once it is fully written. As for writing, I just really found myself hankering for a post-LotR "separated families get reunited and/or released from death and move on building new lives in Aman" fic. Which may or may not count as abuse of canon if not outright AU, but the idea makes me happy, which is my primary criteria for writing projects.

      Not that you wanted or needed to know all of that.

      I'll probably hold off on asking people, then, until I get to know people a bit more! If this fandom's capital is what you describe, it would probably benefit me to get more involved before I start demanding things ;-)

      On 1/4/2014 6:52 PM, heartofoshun@... wrote:
       


      As for "schooling themselves... serious fiction,"
      I am so sorry! That sounds outrageously pompous! (The thing is I think I do take my fan-fiction far too seriously!) All I am saying is the Silmarillion fandom is not a big one. It is a open and friendly one. Not that it does not have some natural divisions, but mostly people get along. The divisions are those of taste. So the few service the few. I read someone's story and comment, t they read mine. I Beta your fic, you Beta mine. There is no pool like that which I know of. I have heard people say that they like to Beta for new writers. Not recently and I do not remember who it was. I have Betaed for newer writers because I loved their work and commented on it and eventually they needed a Beta and they asked me. I am not a brainstorming Beta type either. I generally don't like that kind of advice and, therefore, don't offer it.

      I am not likely to offer to Beta a Second Age vampire, dark fic. I kind of hooked on First Age heroic and hopeless Noldor trying to do the right thing over and over! Other people think there is no right thing for them and would prefer to see all of those types begin by jumping into an open volcano instead of ending it there, if you know what I mean. 

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Shannon <tineryn@...>
      To: SilmarillionWritersGuild <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sat, Jan 4, 2014 6:38 pm
      Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help: Beta Resources?

       
      I didn't mean to name you The Mouth of Fandom or anything :) But you are involved, and know a bit more about how this group tends to work, so I appreciate your input. Several fandoms I have dabbled in have had specific forums or communities for pairing writers and betas, and expected that anyone looking for beta help (or who wanted to edit something) would use those communities instead of pestering people. Since then, I have made a habit of asking how things work before jumping in with both feet. I can certainly reach out to individuals once I know a bit more about the group.

      As for "schooling themselves... serious fiction," I would love to refer to my writing that way. However, to be perfectly honest, it was more a case of wanting to read something in particular, not quite finding it, and giving it a shot on my own instead.

      On 1/4/2014 6:27 PM, heartofoshun@... wrote:
       
      I am not the fandom! I am one individual. I have always asked individuals for help. If there is a set of selfless people who are editors for this fandom I want that list! that would be very convenient. With a couple of exception--three or four maybe--they people I have met willing to Beta were writers. People may contradict me. The Silmarillion is a smallish fandom. We are largely writers reading one another's work in my experience. (Not that there are not graphic artists and people who focus on RPG activity, but those would not necessarily be the people schooling themselves the hardest in the creation of serious fiction.)

      ng I DO know is that good writers and good editors are not necessarily the same thing. I've seen a lot of really talented writers who are unable to get out of their own heads to read objectively, and the opposite as well.)

      It's good to know people in this fandom find betas simply by asking directly. Every fan community I have been involved with has organized things like this differently. There tends to be a bit of a learning curve with respect to knowing these things. All the same, it is worth the effort. The writing standards in this fandom are so high, I couldn't possibly post without someone else having a look.

      Thanks for the advice



      -----OriginalMessage-----
      From: Shannon <tineryn@...>
      To: SilmarillionWritersGuild <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sat, Jan 4, 2014 6:20 pm
      Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help: Beta Resources?

       
      I need to develop better commenting habits anyway, so that is good advice in general. I would not be looking for grammar and punctuation in particular. Instead, I need a good balance of canon-picking and embracing AU, along with being able to point out what areas don't work and why without forcing the beta's own writing style onto the story. (One thing I DO know is that good writers and good editors are not necessarily the same thing. I've seen a lot of really talented writers who are unable to get out of their own heads to read objectively, and the opposite as well.)

      It's good to know people in this fandom find betas simply by asking directly. Every fan community I have been involved with has organized things like this differently. There tends to be a bit of a learning curve with respect to knowing these things. All the same, it is worth the effort. The writing standards in this fandom are so high, I couldn't possibly post without someone else having a look.

      Thanks for the advice and the quick reply!

      -Shannon

      On 1/4/2014 5:51 PM, heartofoshun@... wrote:
       
      Hi! Welcome!  This e-mail address might work for you. The Yahoo community list is far more quiescent at the moment that the website itself or the LJ community. 

      A good Beta/writer mix is more than grammar and punctuation. If I love what a writer loves in the canon and get a kick out of their slant on it, a multitude of sins of fiction-writing, grammar or punctuation would not necessarily drive me away from wanting to Beta for them. But, even if their writing was highly professional and the content didn't thrill me, then I would be less inclined to want to do so and also not the Beta that person needs.

      I would bite the bullet and write a personal note to a writer in the fandom that whose work you adore--lay it on thick! Someone who writers what excites you. Tell them how much you love their work and ask them if they might be able to find the time to look at yours. Flattery will get you everywhere. But, not only that, an approach to someone who writes what interests you is likely to provide the help you need from a Beta.

      It might be nice if you left some comments on their stories first also. The fandom economy is a give and take. I need to be read, you need to be Betaed! (Not necessarily me, of course--my work may irritate you to death. Or you may write subjects that do not interest me. Find the match. Who do you love?) But I think my point is that people will help you if you have spent a little time and attention on their work.



      -----OriginalMessage-----
      From: tineryn <tineryn@...>
      To: SilmarillionWritersGuild <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sat, Jan 4, 2014 5:30 pm
      Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help: Beta Resources?

       
      Hello, everybody!

      Thank you in advance for your help. I'm somewhat new to this group, in that I have lurked LJ in the past but never really actively participated until now. (Was I supposed to do an intro post? I'm so awkward at this.)

      I'm not sure if this is the proper outlet, but I could use advice on how to go about finding a beta. I don't really know anyone in the fandom anymore, and none of my real life friends know anything about Silm canon that I didn't already tell them. I hadn't planned on writing for this fandom until I had gotten my feet wet, but I ended up starting a project anyway.

      If anyone could point me in the right direction, I'd be really grateful. I'm terrible at being objective about my own work, and could really use help from someone who is less rusty than me, with regards to canon.

      Thank you in advance, and have a great weekend!

      Sincerely,
      Shannon (rawr-balrog on tumblr/lj/ao3)




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