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How you solve backlash ? any website how to solve this ?

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  • calico888888
    is there a way to eliminate backlash ? any website or additional part to solve this ? rud
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 1, 2005
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      is there a way to eliminate backlash ?
      any website or additional part to solve this ?

      rud
    • calico888888
      is there a way to eliminate backlash ? any website or additional part to solve this ? rud
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 1, 2005
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        is there a way to eliminate backlash ?
        any website or additional part to solve this ?

        rud
      • Steve
        From: calico888888 ... Anti-backlash nuts, cast in place epoxy nuts or pre loaded ball screws all come to mind
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 1, 2005
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          From: "calico888888" <auahlap@...>>
          > is there a way to eliminate backlash ?
          > any website or additional part to solve this ?
          >
          Anti-backlash nuts, cast in place epoxy nuts or pre loaded ball screws
          all come to mind
        • Ron Ginger
          I used moglice to make zero backlash nuts. It works very well. I have a short description of how to do it on my web page- http://plsntcov.8m.c0m/sherline.htm
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 1, 2005
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            I used moglice to make zero backlash nuts. It works very well.

            I have a short description of how to do it on my web page-
            http://plsntcov.8m.c0m/sherline.htm

            ron ginger
          • kepello
            Ron, Thanks for the great info! I have been thinking about doing the same to my machine for a while. One other description I found was for someone who had
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 1, 2005
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              Ron,

              Thanks for the great info! I have been thinking about doing the
              same to my machine for a while. One other description I found was
              for someone who had milled out a pocket for the moglice. I like the
              idea of filling the existing hole much better, maybe because I am
              lazy, but also because once my machine is disassembled I wouldn't
              have a good way to do the milling... :-)

              Would you mind a couple of questions? Where did you get the moglice
              from? Did you just buy it direct? I see no order system on their
              web site, so I assume I need to call? Which product did you use,
              and how much did you have to buy (package size)?

              Thanks!
              Carl Lance

              > I used moglice to make zero backlash nuts. It works very well.
              >
              > I have a short description of how to do it on my web page-
              > http://plsntcov.8m.c0m/sherline.htm
              >
              > ron ginger
            • Bob Reeves
              Ron, I can t seem to get the http://plsntcov.8m.c0m/sherline.htm link to work, any ideas? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 1, 2005
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                Ron,

                I can't seem to get the http://plsntcov.8m.c0m/sherline.htm link to work, any ideas?

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Gregg Swanson
                NOTE - changed the c0m to a com (zero versus o)... http://plsntcov.8m.com/sherline.htm Gregg ________________________________ From: Bob Reeves
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 1, 2005
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                  NOTE - changed the c0m to a com (zero versus o)...



                  http://plsntcov.8m.com/sherline.htm



                  Gregg





                  ________________________________

                  From: Bob Reeves [mailto:bob@...]
                  Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 11:09 AM
                  To: SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [SherlineCNC] Re:How you solve backlash ? any website how
                  to solve this ?



                  Ron,

                  I can't seem to get the http://plsntcov.8m.c0m/sherline.htm link to
                  work, any ideas?

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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                • jmorrphd2
                  Calico: You can solve backlash by using the moglice nuts or supernuts with teflon on stainless steel contact or use preloaded ball screws of class 5 or better
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 1, 2005
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                    Calico:
                    You can solve backlash by using the moglice nuts or supernuts
                    with teflon on stainless steel contact or use preloaded ball screws
                    of class 5 or better (lower number), or use rollerscrews which are
                    more expensive and less available than ball screws. The cheapest
                    would be the moglice nuts.
                    All the machine tool makers that I know of use ball screws. I
                    don't see a way around this for production machinery. -Jim


                    --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, "calico888888" <auahlap@g...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > is there a way to eliminate backlash ?
                    > any website or additional part to solve this ?
                    >
                    > rud
                  • Gregg Swanson
                    What is a supernut? Gregg ________________________________ From: jmorrphd2 [mailto:jmorrphd@scripps.edu] Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 1:09 PM To:
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 1, 2005
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                      What is a supernut?



                      Gregg



                      ________________________________

                      From: jmorrphd2 [mailto:jmorrphd@...]
                      Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 1:09 PM
                      To: SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [SherlineCNC] Re: How you solve backlash ? any website how to
                      solve this ?




                      Calico:
                      You can solve backlash by using the moglice nuts or supernuts
                      with teflon on stainless steel contact or use preloaded ball screws
                      of class 5 or better (lower number), or use rollerscrews which are
                      more expensive and less available than ball screws. The cheapest
                      would be the moglice nuts.
                      All the machine tool makers that I know of use ball screws. I
                      don't see a way around this for production machinery. -Jim


                      --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, "calico888888" <auahlap@g...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > is there a way to eliminate backlash ?
                      > any website or additional part to solve this ?
                      >
                      > rud







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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • calico888888
                      guys is there any detail photo s of how you do it with moglice ? and where can I buy with the better way to handle antibacklash but more expensive ? any
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 1, 2005
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                        guys is there any detail photo's of how you do it with moglice ?
                        and where can I buy with the better way to handle antibacklash but
                        more expensive ?

                        any website for that product I can order ?

                        regards
                        ruddy
                      • adriankole
                        I d also like to have more details on how to use Moglice to create backlash-free nuts. I ve not disassembled my mill and so I m not familiar with just what
                        Message 11 of 15 , Mar 1, 2005
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                          I'd also like to have more details on how to use Moglice to create
                          backlash-free nuts. I've not disassembled my mill and so I'm not
                          familiar with just what area would be filled or how exactly nuts are
                          used to temporarily keep the stuff in when filling some cavity and
                          keeping things aligned. The Moglice site (how do you pronounce that
                          anyway?!) is interesting in itself with its discussion on historical
                          machining information and the art of making ways that mate
                          properly. However, it was unclear just which one of their products
                          is used to making bearings. Any further details/pics you can
                          supply, Ron?

                          Ruddy, to answer your original question a bit further regarding
                          backlash, another partial solution to the problem of removing
                          backlash:

                          - If your CNC software allows for it, you can tell it how much
                          backlash is present in your system and thereby allow the software to
                          compensate for it. I believe EMC will allow for it in its
                          configuration. I will probably play around with that feature.

                          - Another way around backlash, requiring no changes to your setup,
                          is to always have your tool approach all critical features (e.g.
                          holes to be drilled, notches to be cut) of your part from the same
                          direction. Naturally, this only works for features where you can
                          come at them from the same direction (say, always from forward-to-
                          back and right-to-left) and have enough distance (3-4 mils or so)
                          from which to start your tool movement. This would also require
                          consciously programming your G-code so as to control the movement
                          with removing backlash in mind.

                          Cheers,
                          Adrian

                          --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, "calico888888" <auahlap@g...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > guys is there any detail photo's of how you do it with moglice ?
                          > and where can I buy with the better way to handle antibacklash but
                          > more expensive ?
                          >
                          > any website for that product I can order ?
                          >
                          > regards
                          > ruddy
                        • zephyrus@rickadee.net
                          ... Here is what I posted in July 2002 about my Moglicing: This weekend I cast Moglice nuts on my Sherline mill leadscrews and my Sherline lathe cross slide
                          Message 12 of 15 , Mar 1, 2005
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                            At 01:47 AM 3/2/2005 -0000, ruddy wrote:

                            >guys is there any detail photo's of how you do it with moglice ?
                            >and where can I buy with the better way to handle antibacklash but
                            >more expensive ?

                            Here is what I posted in July 2002 about my Moglicing:

                            This weekend I cast Moglice nuts on my Sherline mill leadscrews and my
                            Sherline lathe cross slide screw (due to the way I cast the nuts, I
                            couldn't do the lathe saddle nut at the same time, unfortunately...) I'm
                            extremely happy with the results.

                            The Sherline mill column has a brass nut which kind of floats relative to
                            the head. (The lathe saddle is the same.) The nut is held by a single
                            10-32 screw, and perched on the points of two setscrews that determine its
                            alignment relative to the head. For the Moglice retrofit, I was not
                            satisfied with this arrangement. Since the Moglice will have next to zero
                            clearance, I wanted a solidly- and repeatably-mounted nut.

                            I measured the distance between the nut mounting surfaces (lateral and
                            fore-and-aft) and the leadscrew centerline. Then I silver-soldered brass
                            shim on both mounting surfaces to bring the nut center in line with the
                            leadscrew center, when it was bolted up tight to the head.

                            I drilled out the nut to leave 1/16" wall, and roughened up the I.D. with
                            a small slotting cutter in my Dremel tool. I turned up centering rings
                            from some Teflon rod to hold the leadscrew tightly and accurately centered
                            in the bore in the column (and thus parallel to the head travel) while I
                            cast the Moglice.

                            For the mill and lathe saddles, I milled out pockets for the Moglice. I
                            used Ron Ginger's idea of using the original brass nuts and
                            "anti-backlash" nuts to contain the Moglice from running out the ends of
                            the bore. The leadscrews run in a clearance hole in the saddle, which is
                            step-drilled to accept the nut, which is just a little cylinder of brass
                            tapped for the leadscrew. I extended the enlarged bore to place the brass
                            nut past the milled-out bore, and filed the flanges off the
                            "anti-backlash" nuts to give the second containment nut. On the lathe, I
                            used a 1/4-20 brass thread insert and turned it to the right O.D.

                            Since the Moglice is described as "fluid", I was imagining how it would
                            flow out any little gap, but was unsatisfied with the idea of using putty
                            in the threads to seal. (By the way, I made the mill saddle recess a
                            little too big, and broke through into the V-way area behind where the gib
                            sits-I did plug that with plumber's putty…) After much thinking during my
                            commute drive, I hit on the idea of using Teflon pipe tape to wind on the
                            threads behind the containment nuts. That worked very well, and no
                            Moglice leaked out at all.

                            The Moglice release spray is wax dissolved in naptha and some other
                            solvents. After degreasing the leadscrews with lacquer thinner and
                            pre-placing the backup nuts, I sprayed two good coats (5-6 seconds per
                            leadscrew) of the wax and let the screws sit overnight. The spray goes on
                            translucent, but dries to a white waxy appearance.

                            I assembled the leadscrews in the saddle bores, and placed the mill head
                            and leadscrew in place on the column. I wound Teflon tape on the column
                            leadscrew in place, and lowered the bored-out nut onto the mass of Teflon.
                            This was enough to seal it. I did all this prep work on Saturday. On
                            Sunday afternoon, I cast the Moglice.

                            The filled component of the Moglice was the consistency of un-homgenized
                            peanut butter-all the solids had settled to the bottom. I pre-mixed it
                            with a Popsicle/craft stick, scraping the sides and bottom of the
                            container well. I then discarded the stick, added the other component and
                            mixed well with a second stick. This way, there would be less of a chance
                            for unmixed resin. The mixed Moglice was about the consistency of honey.

                            I filled the recesses in the mill and lathe saddles and then turned to the
                            column nut. The clearance was so small that I could only apply a fraction
                            of a cubic centimeter (using a small disposable plastic syringe) at a
                            time, and then vibrated it down into the gap by pressing the platen of a
                            palm sander (with the sandpaper removed!) against the nut. I repeated
                            this 4 or 5 times, until the nut seemed full. I went back and vibrated
                            the saddles too.

                            Monday night when I returned from work, I freed the leadscrews. I had
                            read of the difficulties of breaking the leadscrews free initially, and
                            was prepared to use a lot of force. I wrapped layers of brass shim around
                            the leadscrew, and gripped it with a Vise-Grip. To my surprise, the
                            leadscrew broke free easily with relatively little torque (probably not
                            enough to twist the head off a 4-40 screw…) and, after I removed the
                            Teflon tape, the leadscrews all turned freely by hand.

                            I probably was more generous with the release spray than others have been,
                            but I can't feel any play at all by hand. I'm really anticipating
                            reassembling the mill, tramming it in, and measuring the backlash
                            directly. But I have a feeling that it will be well small enough in any
                            case! :-)

                            For the lathe, I could not cast the saddle nut at the same time, because
                            it needs to be solidly bolted to the saddle, and the whole assembly tipped
                            up on end. This conflicted with casting the cross slide nut, so I'll need
                            to buy a second batch of Moglice to do the one nut (well less than a cubic
                            centimeter…) In all, I used possibly a third of the Moglice. The rest,
                            unfortunately, is a hardened mass in the container. If anyone in the area
                            is planning to Moglice anything, let me know and we can share the next
                            batch (as well as the spray release, of which I used a miniscule amount!)

                            The Moglice I used is the 1000 Fluid, which contains Teflon. I'm really
                            looking forward to using the "near-zero-backlash" Sherlines!

                            Photos with captions are in a folder named "Fun with Moglice" in the
                            photos area of the CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO Yahoo group.

                            Best regards,

                            Randy


                            Best regards,

                            Randy


                            Randy Gordon-Gilmore  ,----.___________  ______________  _________________
                            ProtoTrains          // =   =  === ==  || ==   == == = || == == ==  = == =|
                            Rio Vista, CA, USA  /-O==O------------o==o------------o==o-----------o==o-'
                            zephyrus@...                            http://www.prototrains.com
                          • Lee Davis
                            One way that Sherline does it is to use a 2nd nut. Check Sherline s web site for part 4017Z. I have it and it works. Probably not as good as moglice but it is
                            Message 13 of 15 , Mar 1, 2005
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                              One way that Sherline does it is to use a 2nd nut. Check Sherline's
                              web site for part 4017Z. I have it and it works. Probably not as good
                              as moglice but it is ok for me.

                              Lee


                              --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, "calico888888" <auahlap@g...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > is there a way to eliminate backlash ?
                              > any website or additional part to solve this ?
                              >
                              > rud
                            • calico888888
                              JIM, where can I order the Preloded ball screws of class 5 or roller screws ?? ruddy
                              Message 14 of 15 , Mar 3, 2005
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                                JIM,
                                where can I order the Preloded ball screws of class 5 or roller screws ??

                                ruddy

                                --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, "jmorrphd2" <jmorrphd@s...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Calico:
                                > You can solve backlash by using the moglice nuts or supernuts
                                > with teflon on stainless steel contact or use preloaded ball screws
                                > of class 5 or better (lower number), or use rollerscrews which are
                                > more expensive and less available than ball screws. The cheapest
                                > would be the moglice nuts.
                                > All the machine tool makers that I know of use ball screws. I
                                > don't see a way around this for production machinery. -Jim
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, "calico888888" <auahlap@g...>
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > is there a way to eliminate backlash ?
                                > > any website or additional part to solve this ?
                                > >
                                > > rud
                              • adriankole
                                Hi Lee, I also got that anti-backlash part and have tried it. Unfortunately for me, it doesn t really appear to work. In order to remove any significant
                                Message 15 of 15 , Mar 5, 2005
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                                  Hi Lee,

                                  I also got that anti-backlash part and have tried it. Unfortunately
                                  for me, it doesn't really appear to work. In order to remove any
                                  significant Z-backlash, it has to be so tight as to put too much
                                  friction on the leadscrew.

                                  In my estimation, it is basically useless!

                                  If you have any suggestions on how to make it do its thing better,
                                  I'd be glad to hear about it. My system is well lubricated and I am
                                  using a new saddle nut from the CNC retrofit.

                                  BTW, have you actually measured with a dial gauge the Z-backlash
                                  before and after and can you tell me what you saw?

                                  The stock X- and Y-axis backlash adjustments work just great for
                                  me. They take my backlash go from around 4-mils down to almost
                                  zero. Strangely, the Sherline site recommends about 3-mils (0.003")
                                  which I find is just too sloppy. Any know why they recommend that
                                  (less wear?)?

                                  Cheers,
                                  Adrian


                                  --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Davis" <LeeFairfield@H...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > One way that Sherline does it is to use a 2nd nut. Check
                                  Sherline's
                                  > web site for part 4017Z. I have it and it works. Probably not as
                                  good
                                  > as moglice but it is ok for me.
                                  >
                                  > Lee
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