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help drawing a part

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  • Devin Cox
    I am looking to build a shriking die for a power hammer machine. The die is made from 1 slices of 2 diameter steel bar. On the flat face of one side of the
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 1, 2005
      I am looking to build a shriking die for a power hammer machine. The
      die is made from 1" slices of 2" diameter steel bar. On the flat face
      of one side of the die a cone is raised about 1/2 way from the
      surface of the disk. On the bottom part the cone is recessed 1/2 way
      into the disk so the two parts of the die rest flush together. I have
      attached a pic. Is this called 3D Projection surface milling? I'm
      looking for some advise on how to draw this part in CAD/CAM. I use
      GeoPath.

      Thanks,
      Devin
    • RichD
      Devin, Create your 2D profile in the Z-X plane. From the Z axial center to the edge, then rotate as a solid surface. This is now the tooling surface. RichD
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 1, 2005
        Devin,
        Create your 2D profile in the Z-X plane. From the Z axial center to the edge,
        then rotate as a solid surface. This is now the tooling surface.
        RichD

        Devin Cox wrote:
        >
        > I am looking to build a shriking die for a power hammer machine. The
        > die is made from 1" slices of 2" diameter steel bar. On the flat face
        > of one side of the die a cone is raised about 1/2 way from the
        > surface of the disk. On the bottom part the cone is recessed 1/2 way
        > into the disk so the two parts of the die rest flush together. I have
        > attached a pic. Is this called 3D Projection surface milling? I'm
        > looking for some advise on how to draw this part in CAD/CAM. I use
        > GeoPath.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Devin
      • Alan Marconett
        Hi Devin, You ll need to post this pix in the photos, no attachments allowed. Or email it to me, and i ll post it for you. KM6VV at ARRL dot Net You re
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 1, 2005
          Hi Devin,

          You'll need to post this pix in the photos, no attachments allowed. Or
          email it to me, and i'll post it for you. "KM6VV at ARRL dot Net"

          You're going to machine this die on a Sherline mill? What material are
          you considering? Tool steel might be a chore!

          I've never heard the term "3D Projection surface milling", but then I do
          mostly "2.5 D".

          If the cone and hole are regular geometric shapes, then 2.5 D will be
          enough, although tapered codes are a little rough! A cone suggests
          multiple "waterline" cuts. What is the angle of the cone? If at a
          nominal 60 or 90 degrees (included), then perhaps an angled mill cutter
          will work.

          If the stock is secured on a rotary table, on an adjustable angle table,
          then a cone can be milled. Probably same goes for the hole, if it needs
          to match. The cone is a taper, so with proper headstock offset, it
          could be turned on the lathe. The compound rest could also be used.
          Depends on the angles.

          Myself, and the intent of this list, is to use CNC on Sherline lathes
          and mills. A taper on the lathe (I'm working on one now) with CNC
          becomes easy (well, a lot easier).

          Alan KM6VV


          Devin Cox wrote:

          >
          > I am looking to build a shriking die for a power hammer machine. The
          > die is made from 1" slices of 2" diameter steel bar. On the flat face
          > of one side of the die a cone is raised about 1/2 way from the
          > surface of the disk. On the bottom part the cone is recessed 1/2 way
          > into the disk so the two parts of the die rest flush together. I have
          > attached a pic. Is this called 3D Projection surface milling? I'm
          > looking for some advise on how to draw this part in CAD/CAM. I use
          > GeoPath.
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Devin
          >
        • Devin Cox
          Alan, I am milling this on a sherline (cnc) machine. I have not given much thought to the type of steel I would use. I am just using this for myself (low use)
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 2, 2005
            Alan,
            I am milling this on a sherline (cnc) machine. I have not given much
            thought to the type of steel I would use. I am just using this for
            myself (low use) and would have the part heat treated. It would be
            used to press this shape into 16-22 guage steel/aluminum. Here is a
            link to the pic of the part.
            http://www.devincox.com/43shrink_die1.jpg


            Thanks,
            Devin
          • Devin Cox
            RichD, I don t completely understand what you are saying but I tried what I thought you meant and it worked. I eigher got it, or I just got lucky. LOL Thanks,
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 2, 2005
              RichD,
              I don't completely understand what you are saying but I tried what I
              thought you meant and it worked. I eigher got it, or I just got
              lucky. LOL

              Thanks,
              Devin

              --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, RichD <cmsteam@s...> wrote:
              > Devin,
              > Create your 2D profile in the Z-X plane. From the Z axial center
              to the edge,
              > then rotate as a solid surface. This is now the tooling surface.
              > RichD
              >
              > Devin Cox wrote:
              > >
              > > I am looking to build a shriking die for a power hammer machine.
              The
              > > die is made from 1" slices of 2" diameter steel bar. On the flat
              face
              > > of one side of the die a cone is raised about 1/2 way from the
              > > surface of the disk. On the bottom part the cone is recessed 1/2
              way
              > > into the disk so the two parts of the die rest flush together. I
              have
              > > attached a pic. Is this called 3D Projection surface milling?
              I'm
              > > looking for some advise on how to draw this part in CAD/CAM. I
              use
              > > GeoPath.
              > >
              > > Thanks,
              > > Devin
            • Alan Marconett
              HI Devin, A little trouble reading the drawing, but I can make out a little. A rather complex shape! This is more complicated then the simple conical parts I
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 2, 2005
                HI Devin,

                A little trouble reading the drawing, but I can make out a little.

                A rather complex shape! This is more complicated then the simple
                conical parts I described milling. You'll need to model them in
                something like Rhino, Generate an STL file, and then a Gccode file.

                You mention GeoPath? I'm not familiar with it, although I suspect it is
                the program that I was first introduced to in '85. I had just started
                to try and design a large sprocket for a robot, and then the machinist
                changed jobs. Never got a chance to "visit" the company machine shop again.

                I don't understand the drawing well enough to help you. Can GeoPath
                create contours? If you can create a very tight wire frame from the
                given dimensions, then a 3D modeling program (Rhino, GeoPath??) can
                generate an STL or similar file to describe the surface you want. From
                the STL, a Gcode file would be generated for the size ball endmill you
                would use. This Gcode file, of course, run on any CNC controller program.

                Andrew's Computer Sculpture web site may be of help:

                http://www.computersculpture.com/

                OR perhaps Andrew could comment (he's on this list). Andrew?

                Alan KM6VV




                Devin Cox wrote:

                >
                > Alan,
                > I am milling this on a sherline (cnc) machine. I have not given much
                > thought to the type of steel I would use. I am just using this for
                > myself (low use) and would have the part heat treated. It would be
                > used to press this shape into 16-22 guage steel/aluminum. Here is a
                > link to the pic of the part.
                > http://www.devincox.com/43shrink_die1.jpg
                >
                >
                > Thanks,
                > Devin
                >
              • Andrew Werby
                Message: 5 Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 11:13:59 -0800 From: Alan Marconett Subject: Re: Re: help drawing a part HI Devin, A little trouble reading
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 3, 2005
                  Message: 5
                  Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 11:13:59 -0800
                  From: Alan Marconett <KM6VV@...>
                  Subject: Re: Re: help drawing a part

                  HI Devin,

                  A little trouble reading the drawing, but I can make out a little.

                  A rather complex shape! This is more complicated then the simple
                  conical parts I described milling. You'll need to model them in
                  something like Rhino, Generate an STL file, and then a Gccode file.

                  You mention GeoPath? I'm not familiar with it, although I suspect it is
                  the program that I was first introduced to in '85. I had just started
                  to try and design a large sprocket for a robot, and then the machinist
                  changed jobs. Never got a chance to "visit" the company machine shop again.

                  I don't understand the drawing well enough to help you. Can GeoPath
                  create contours? If you can create a very tight wire frame from the
                  given dimensions, then a 3D modeling program (Rhino, GeoPath??) can
                  generate an STL or similar file to describe the surface you want. From
                  the STL, a Gcode file would be generated for the size ball endmill you
                  would use. This Gcode file, of course, run on any CNC controller program.

                  Andrew's Computer Sculpture web site may be of help:

                  http://www.computersculpture.com/

                  OR perhaps Andrew could comment (he's on this list). Andrew?

                  Alan KM6VV

                  [Who, me?]

                  Devin Cox wrote:

                  >
                  > Alan,
                  > I am milling this on a sherline (cnc) machine. I have not given much
                  > thought to the type of steel I would use. I am just using this for
                  > myself (low use) and would have the part heat treated. It would be
                  > used to press this shape into 16-22 guage steel/aluminum. Here is a
                  > link to the pic of the part.
                  > http://www.devincox.com/43shrink_die1.jpg
                  >
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  > Devin
                  >

                  [As I understand it, this is a two-part die for sheet-metal work.
                  "Shrinking" in this context means putting a series of creases in the edge of
                  a circular plate (for example), to reduce the diameter and create something
                  more like a bowl. I imagine this would mount in some sort of press, with
                  enough room to get the work into the space between the die halves. To build
                  this using CNC, you'd model the two parts in a 3d CAD program like Rhino,
                  making sure to leave space for the thickness of the metal in between them.
                  I'd probably do it by lofting a series of curves to create the mating
                  surfaces. Then you'd bring it into a CAM program like VisualMill (STL format
                  is okay if you mesh it fine enough), which would construct a series of
                  toolpaths in "g-code" the Sherline CNC control program (EMC) could
                  interpret. To cut this in steel, you'd want to set up a roughing pass that
                  would remove shallow layers progressively, using a relatively large endmill.
                  If this is tool steel, capable of hardening, then anneal it before cutting
                  by heating the metal to red hot, then cooling as slowly as possible; burying
                  it in ashes or another insulating but refractory material. I'm not sure
                  exactly how deep a Sherline can cut in steel at a time (.005"?), but it's
                  best to err to the conservative side - a CNC mill doesn't get bored like a
                  person turning cranks, but too heavy a cut might cause it to lose steps or
                  break an endmill. Once most of the material is out of the way, you'd use a
                  ball-end cutter to do a finish pass. I'd use a series of parallel cuts that
                  dipped down into the valley and up the other side(or climbed the hill, for
                  the male part) to avoid the "stair-stepping" that would occur if one went
                  the other way, lengthwise down the valley (or along the ridgeline). The
                  ball-end cutters will create a fairly smooth surface if one lays the tool
                  passes near enough to one another, but some hand finishing with abrasives
                  would probably still be required to create surfaces that would mar the metal
                  the minimum amount. Let me know if this answers your question.]

                  Andrew Werby
                  www.computersculpture.com
                • Devin Cox
                  Thanks for the help Alan/Andrew. I have drawn the part in GeoPath and it will also generate and test the tool paths. I will be using CNC Pro to do the machine
                  Message 8 of 9 , Feb 4, 2005
                    Thanks for the help Alan/Andrew.
                    I have drawn the part in GeoPath and it will also generate and test
                    the tool paths. I will be using CNC Pro to do the machine control.

                    Devin
                  • Devin Cox
                    Alan, Yes, GeoPath can create contours. Devin ... it is ... started ... machinist ... shop again. ... GeoPath ... the ... can ... From ... you ... program. ...
                    Message 9 of 9 , Feb 4, 2005
                      Alan,
                      Yes, GeoPath can create contours.

                      Devin
                      --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, Alan Marconett <KM6VV@a...>
                      wrote:
                      > HI Devin,
                      >
                      > A little trouble reading the drawing, but I can make out a little.
                      >
                      > A rather complex shape! This is more complicated then the simple
                      > conical parts I described milling. You'll need to model them in
                      > something like Rhino, Generate an STL file, and then a Gccode file.
                      >
                      > You mention GeoPath? I'm not familiar with it, although I suspect
                      it is
                      > the program that I was first introduced to in '85. I had just
                      started
                      > to try and design a large sprocket for a robot, and then the
                      machinist
                      > changed jobs. Never got a chance to "visit" the company machine
                      shop again.
                      >
                      > I don't understand the drawing well enough to help you. Can
                      GeoPath
                      > create contours? If you can create a very tight wire frame from
                      the
                      > given dimensions, then a 3D modeling program (Rhino, GeoPath??)
                      can
                      > generate an STL or similar file to describe the surface you want.
                      From
                      > the STL, a Gcode file would be generated for the size ball endmill
                      you
                      > would use. This Gcode file, of course, run on any CNC controller
                      program.
                      >
                      > Andrew's Computer Sculpture web site may be of help:
                      >
                      > http://www.computersculpture.com/
                      >
                      > OR perhaps Andrew could comment (he's on this list). Andrew?
                      >
                      > Alan KM6VV
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Devin Cox wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > > Alan,
                      > > I am milling this on a sherline (cnc) machine. I have not given
                      much
                      > > thought to the type of steel I would use. I am just using this
                      for
                      > > myself (low use) and would have the part heat treated. It would
                      be
                      > > used to press this shape into 16-22 guage steel/aluminum. Here
                      is a
                      > > link to the pic of the part.
                      > > http://www.devincox.com/43shrink_die1.jpg
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Thanks,
                      > > Devin
                      > >
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