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Re: [SherlineCNC] 5400 Mill as a lathe?

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  • Martin Dobbins
    Hi Jeff, No I haven t but I thought I would share some thoughts since no one else has yet, even though I don t use Rhino or Mach3 (!) If you are prepared to
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 20, 2010
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      Hi Jeff,

      No I haven't but I thought I would share some thoughts since no one else has yet, even though I don't use Rhino or Mach3 (!)

      If you are prepared to make some custom tool holders and you can fit your project in the Z envelope you may be able to do this without rotating the headstock. This would have the advantage of preserving the Z axis as the infeed towards the headstock and the X axis as the depth of cut per pass, so the output from Rhino should be somewhere close.  There's an example of what I'm talking about here:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hUEPfgKJwY

      Although the video shows the spindle running in reverse because the tools are on the "back side" of the part, the poster could have rotated the tools 90 degrees and put them on the other side of the spindle and run the spindle forward.

      I hope you understand G code programming because you're going to have to fudge with the output of Rhino even if you don't rotate Z, more so if you do.

      It sounds like a very interesting project, let us know how you get on.

      Martin


      --- On Mon, 9/20/10, jkcab95  wrote:








       











      Has anyone out there rotated thier head stock to use the mill as a

      lathe?



      I am running Mach3 and using Rhino Cam for programing. I am working on

      an auoto tool changer that uses an er 16 taper custom tool holders. I

      want to turn the internal taper on the headstock adapter while it is on

      the spindle for concentricity. I would also like to turn the tool holers

      the same way to assure a matching angle and repetability. I am not sure

      how to program to use the x axis as if it were the z axis of a lathe and

      the y as if it were the x on the lathe? Has anyone atempted this? I sure

      could use a little direction. Thanks,



      Jeff

























      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • jkcab95
      Martin, Thanks for the reply. I had considered that option but I think it presents the same programing challanges. I am sure this is not a new idea and I was
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 20, 2010
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        Martin,
        Thanks for the reply. I had considered that option but I think it presents the same programing challanges. I am sure this is not a new idea and I was hoping to not have to reinvent the wheel! My brother was a machinist for 27 years. Back in the '70s he wrote a program to turn a mold core in the spindle of a bridgeport cnc mill. He cobbled together a tool holder to mount to the table and did just what you saw in the video. He used the demonstration to covince his employer they needed a cnc lathe. Needless to say they purchased the lathe shortly there after. I could probably make a toolholder to hold a boring bar and a turning / facing tool in one and then manually g-code. I could do this vertically or horizontally. I was hoping for an easier solution. I think that horizontally would provide a bit more range and provide a more conventional visualation of the operation. I was thinking as I was writing this...what if I were to unplug the axis motors and relocate them. If I pluged the Z axis into the X axis ect and then used the lathe cam software I would be able to program as if it were a normal lathe? My motor tuning is almost identical for each axis so it seems the switch would be simple? What do you think?
        Thanks again,
        Jeff

        --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, Martin Dobbins <trainnutz@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Jeff,
        >
        > No I haven't but I thought I would share some thoughts since no one else has yet, even though I don't use Rhino or Mach3 (!)
        >
        > If you are prepared to make some custom tool holders and you can fit your project in the Z envelope you may be able to do this without rotating the headstock. This would have the advantage of preserving the Z axis as the infeed towards the headstock and the X axis as the depth of cut per pass, so the output from Rhino should be somewhere close.  There's an example of what I'm talking about here:
        >
        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hUEPfgKJwY
        >
        > Although the video shows the spindle running in reverse because the tools are on the "back side" of the part, the poster could have rotated the tools 90 degrees and put them on the other side of the spindle and run the spindle forward.
        >
        > I hope you understand G code programming because you're going to have to fudge with the output of Rhino even if you don't rotate Z, more so if you do.
        >
        > It sounds like a very interesting project, let us know how you get on.
        >
        > Martin
        >
        >
        > --- On Mon, 9/20/10, jkcab95  wrote:
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        > Has anyone out there rotated thier head stock to use the mill as a
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        > I am running Mach3 and using Rhino Cam for programing. I am working on
        >
        > an auoto tool changer that uses an er 16 taper custom tool holders. I
        >
        > want to turn the internal taper on the headstock adapter while it is on
        >
        > the spindle for concentricity. I would also like to turn the tool holers
        >
        > the same way to assure a matching angle and repetability. I am not sure
        >
        > how to program to use the x axis as if it were the z axis of a lathe and
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        > the y as if it were the x on the lathe? Has anyone atempted this? I sure
        >
        > could use a little direction. Thanks,
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      • Martin Dobbins
        Hi Jeff, Things to check: Will the rotated headstock sit low enough on the X axis so that you can use standard lathe tools on the X axis?  If it will not
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 20, 2010
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          Hi Jeff,

          Things to check:

          Will the rotated headstock "sit" low enough on the X axis so that you can use standard lathe tools on the X axis?  If it will not you might be faced with making new tool holders anyway.  If all seems OK I can't see any reason why your scheme wouldn't work.

          If you change the plugs on the controller box and keep things straight in your head your lathe cam software should work just as you hope.  I would be inclined to try the cuts in air and temporarily drop your rapids speed until you see what is happening.  Watch for positive travel when you're expecting negative and the other way around.  Expect the setup to be less rigid than a lathe and maybe drop the depth of cut accordingly.

          Safety first, the most exciting thing to happen should be a completed part, not a wrecked machine or an injured operator.

          Best of luck and keep us updated with your progress.

          Martin

          --- On Mon, 9/20/10, jkcab95  wrote:








           









          Martin,

          Thanks for the reply. I had considered that option but I think it presents the same programing challanges. I am sure this is not a new idea and I was hoping to not have to reinvent the wheel! My brother was a machinist for 27 years. Back in the '70s he wrote a program to turn a mold core in the spindle of a bridgeport cnc mill. He cobbled together a tool holder to mount to the table and did just what you saw in the video. He used the demonstration to covince his employer they needed a cnc lathe. Needless to say they purchased the lathe shortly there after. I could probably make a toolholder to hold a boring bar and a turning / facing tool in one and then manually g-code. I could do this vertically or horizontally. I was hoping for an easier solution. I think that horizontally would provide a bit more range and provide a more conventional visualation of the operation. I was thinking as I was writing this...what if I were to unplug the axis motors and
          relocate them. If I pluged the Z axis into the X axis ect and then used the lathe cam software I would be able to program as if it were a normal lathe? My motor tuning is almost identical for each axis so it seems the switch would be simple? What do you think?

          Thanks again,

          Jeff



          --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, Martin Dobbins <trainnutz@...> wrote:

          >

          > Hi Jeff,

          >

          > No I haven't but I thought I would share some thoughts since no one else has yet, even though I don't use Rhino or Mach3 (!)

          >

          > If you are prepared to make some custom tool holders and you can fit your project in the Z envelope you may be able to do this without rotating the headstock. This would have the advantage of preserving the Z axis as the infeed towards the headstock and the X axis as the depth of cut per pass, so the output from Rhino should be somewhere close.  There's an example of what I'm talking about here:

          >

          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hUEPfgKJwY

          >

          > Although the video shows the spindle running in reverse because the tools are on the "back side" of the part, the poster could have rotated the tools 90 degrees and put them on the other side of the spindle and run the spindle forward.

          >

          > I hope you understand G code programming because you're going to have to fudge with the output of Rhino even if you don't rotate Z, more so if you do.

          >

          > It sounds like a very interesting project, let us know how you get on.

          >

          > Martin

          >

          >

          > --- On Mon, 9/20/10, jkcab95  wrote:

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          > Has anyone out there rotated thier head stock to use the mill as a

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          > lathe?

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          >

          > I am running Mach3 and using Rhino Cam for programing. I am working on

          >

          > an auoto tool changer that uses an er 16 taper custom tool holders. I

          >

          > want to turn the internal taper on the headstock adapter while it is on

          >

          > the spindle for concentricity. I would also like to turn the tool holers

          >

          > the same way to assure a matching angle and repetability. I am not sure

          >

          > how to program to use the x axis as if it were the z axis of a lathe and

          >

          > the y as if it were the x on the lathe? Has anyone atempted this? I sure

          >

          > could use a little direction. Thanks,

          >

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        • permeter2
          I haven t done it on a cnc mill, but I have done it on my manual 5400. I made a mounting adapter so I could mount the quick change tool post from my Unimat PC
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 2, 2010
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            I haven't done it on a cnc mill, but I have done it on my manual 5400. I made a mounting adapter so I could mount the quick change tool post from my Unimat PC lathe on my milling machine table, and I had the horizontal milling conversion kit, so I used that to mount the spindle horizontally.

            It worked nicely, but then I measured the diameter of the parts I was turning. They were slightly tapered--about .001"-.002" difference (or so--if I remember correctly) in diameter from one end to the other on a brass part that was about 1½-2 inches long and about .5" in diameter.

            I concluded it was because that setup was just not designed and made to mount the spindle's axis exactly parallel to the motion of the milling machine table. Of course for milling, close is good-enough. But the error can be significant when you use that setup for turning.

            So I think there's a potential issue with using (perhaps any) milling machine as a lathe in addition to having to rethink how you use the G-codes (depending on how accurate your turned part need to be).

            --greg




            --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, "jkcab95" <jkcab@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Has anyone out there rotated thier head stock to use the mill as a
            > lathe?
            >
            > I am running Mach3 and using Rhino Cam for programing. I am working on
            > an auoto tool changer that uses an er 16 taper custom tool holders. I
            > want to turn the internal taper on the headstock adapter while it is on
            > the spindle for concentricity. I would also like to turn the tool holers
            > the same way to assure a matching angle and repetability. I am not sure
            > how to program to use the x axis as if it were the z axis of a lathe and
            > the y as if it were the x on the lathe? Has anyone atempted this? I sure
            > could use a little direction. Thanks,
            >
            > Jeff
            >
          • rfhowell68
            I have done this with a CNC, but I did not rotate the head. I just put the part in the spindle, and mounted my tool to the table so it could cut with X axis
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 6, 2010
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              I have done this with a CNC, but I did not rotate the head. I just put the part in the spindle, and mounted my tool to the table so it could cut with X axis motion.

              --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, "permeter2" <glyons@...> wrote:
              >
              > I haven't done it on a cnc mill, but I have done it on my manual 5400. I made a mounting adapter so I could mount the quick change tool post from my Unimat PC lathe on my milling machine table, and I had the horizontal milling conversion kit, so I used that to mount the spindle horizontally.
              >
              > It worked nicely, but then I measured the diameter of the parts I was turning. They were slightly tapered--about .001"-.002" difference (or so--if I remember correctly) in diameter from one end to the other on a brass part that was about 1½-2 inches long and about .5" in diameter.
              >
              > I concluded it was because that setup was just not designed and made to mount the spindle's axis exactly parallel to the motion of the milling machine table. Of course for milling, close is good-enough. But the error can be significant when you use that setup for turning.
              >
              > So I think there's a potential issue with using (perhaps any) milling machine as a lathe in addition to having to rethink how you use the G-codes (depending on how accurate your turned part need to be).
              >
              > --greg
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, "jkcab95" <jkcab@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > Has anyone out there rotated thier head stock to use the mill as a
              > > lathe?
              > >
              > > I am running Mach3 and using Rhino Cam for programing. I am working on
              > > an auoto tool changer that uses an er 16 taper custom tool holders. I
              > > want to turn the internal taper on the headstock adapter while it is on
              > > the spindle for concentricity. I would also like to turn the tool holers
              > > the same way to assure a matching angle and repetability. I am not sure
              > > how to program to use the x axis as if it were the z axis of a lathe and
              > > the y as if it were the x on the lathe? Has anyone atempted this? I sure
              > > could use a little direction. Thanks,
              > >
              > > Jeff
              > >
              >
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