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Re: Hand wheels/CNC question

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  • Jim
    The CNC-ready packages have mounts but no motors - so I could get used to the manual operation using the wheels ... per Wong s post. Once I can upgrade to CNC,
    Message 1 of 23 , Mar 5, 2010
      The CNC-ready packages have mounts but no motors - so I could get used to the manual operation using the wheels ... per Wong's post. Once I can upgrade to CNC, I won't need the wheels because of the ease of issuing commands on the controller ... per Jeffrey's post. But wheels initially are a great way to get acclimated to feed and cut rates.

      Okay, now the photos on the Sherline page make more sense. The photo of the 8020 package shows red handwheels on the back of three motors.
      http://www.sherline.com/images/8020pic2.jpg

      Those motors are the "steppers" and the black "v"-shaped objects between them and the mill are the mounts. It must be child's play to remove those motors temporarily to "De-CNC" my kit for manual practice. I bet those handwheels are held on by set screws and easy to remove as well. Sweet.

      Thank you, everyone, for the great information ... I hope to come back when I get my system and then get upgraded.
    • wongsterwish
      I don t know about the mill as i bought it cnc ready. The leadscrew for cnc and manual differ on the lathe. The cnc kit came with a longer leadscrew with a
      Message 2 of 23 , Mar 6, 2010
        I don't know about the mill as i bought it cnc ready. The leadscrew for cnc and manual differ on the lathe. The cnc kit came with a longer leadscrew with a hole at the tip to allow the coupler to be mounted with a screw.

        I turned the handwheels with the motor on but wire disconnected. Feel not very good...

        Regards,
        Wong


        --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <sunlit.waves@...> wrote:
        >
        > The CNC-ready packages have mounts but no motors - so I could get used to the manual operation using the wheels ... per Wong's post. Once I can upgrade to CNC, I won't need the wheels because of the ease of issuing commands on the controller ... per Jeffrey's post. But wheels initially are a great way to get acclimated to feed and cut rates.
        >
        > Okay, now the photos on the Sherline page make more sense. The photo of the 8020 package shows red handwheels on the back of three motors.
        > http://www.sherline.com/images/8020pic2.jpg
        >
        > Those motors are the "steppers" and the black "v"-shaped objects between them and the mill are the mounts. It must be child's play to remove those motors temporarily to "De-CNC" my kit for manual practice. I bet those handwheels are held on by set screws and easy to remove as well. Sweet.
        >
        > Thank you, everyone, for the great information ... I hope to come back when I get my system and then get upgraded.
        >
      • Jim
        Yes, I expect with a motor attached, turning the shaft might make the motor act as a magneto - reverse of its normal operation. The motors would generate
        Message 3 of 23 , Mar 6, 2010
          Yes, I expect with a motor attached, turning the shaft might make the motor act as a magneto - reverse of its normal operation. The motors would generate electricity and make turning the shaft obnoxious. Sort of like driving over broom handles - bump bump bump - my guess.

          I expect to have enough money to buy the mill CNC-ready with an accessory kit, so at least for a short time, turning the wheels will be my only option. After that, I will either unmount the motors or use the command interface for manual work.

          Jim
        • Hamilton Elliott
          Hi Jim, As far as I can remember you have to make a coupler for the shafts to extend them beyond the end of the stepper mounts and you also need to make a
          Message 4 of 23 , Mar 6, 2010
            Hi Jim,
            As far as I can remember you have to make a coupler for the shafts to extend
            them beyond the end of the stepper mounts and you also need to make a plate
            that covers the open end of the mounts so the shaft doesn't wiggle from side
            to side.

            I got the mill CNC ready and made the mistake of getting over powerful
            steppers which are very difficult to turn accurately even with them
            disconnected. They cause vibration when the steppers are moving fast so I
            have taken them off altogether.

            Regards,
            Hamilton


            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com]
            > On Behalf Of Jim
            > Sent: 06 March 2010 12:56
            > To: SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [SherlineCNC] Re: Hand wheels/CNC question
            >
            > Yes, I expect with a motor attached, turning the shaft might make the
            > motor act as a magneto - reverse of its normal operation. The motors
            > would generate electricity and make turning the shaft obnoxious. Sort
            > of like driving over broom handles - bump bump bump - my guess.
            >
            > I expect to have enough money to buy the mill CNC-ready with an
            > accessory kit, so at least for a short time, turning the wheels will be
            > my only option. After that, I will either unmount the motors or use the
            > command interface for manual work.
            >
            > Jim
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            > Version: 9.0.787 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2726 - Release Date:
            > 03/06/10 07:39:00
          • imserv1
            ... The CNC-ready Sherline mills come with handwheels. It is very easy to make adaptor plates that you can use to manually machine until you convert to CNC
            Message 5 of 23 , Mar 6, 2010
              --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <sunlit.waves@...> wrote:
              >
              > I am looking at getting a Sherline 2000 Mill with CNC capabilities - with CNC now or upgrading later, I have not decided. It's a lot of money.
              >
              > Will I still have the hand wheels for manual adjustment?

              The CNC-ready Sherline mills come with handwheels. It is very easy to make adaptor plates that you can use to manually machine until you convert to CNC control. You will need some 1/4 dowel pins, cold rolled, or ground steel rod, or similar that can be used for shafts. The pins/rods are inserted into the flex coupling on one end and the handwheel on the other. The adaptor plate is a piece of 1/8 to 1/4 sheet material with 4 holes drilled through for mounting, and one to support the handwheel shaft. Softer plastics such as Polyethylene( HPDE, LDPE either is fine), nylon, teflon ( expensive and not really needed) will work well. The adaptor plates do not have to be precision machined, the Sherline CNC Motor mount has thrust bearings that isolate all but the rotational forces from the handwheel.

              If you eventually convert to CNC with servos, you will not feel any cogging, and near zero resistance, if you manually machine something with the power off. Stepper motors on the other hand will always cog as the shaft is rotated between the motor poles.

              It's true that many people use MDI and short hand written programs to do quick operations. However, until you get a good grasp on G-code, or Cad-Cam, you can expect to be like most new CNC converts, who are much more productive at turning the handles to mill an edge straight, or to approach an edge with an edge finder, or to touch off a tool tip.

              Our servo systems have a servo "reset" switch that temporarily cuts out the servo drives to make it very easy to manually adjust position ( like setting a Z tool height, or touching a tool shank to the edge of a part). These processes have a good feel and the positioning is very repeatable.

              There is a drive cutout switch on the Sherline computer/CNC packages, which has the same purpose. If you add a Sherline driver box separately, you may also want add a switch to permit easily deactiviatibng the drives.

              Fred Smith - IMService

              http://www.imsrv.com
            • Andrew Werby
              I should point out that if you get a mill CNC-ready , one half of the set of calibrated dials won t be available to tell you where you are. So you can only
              Message 6 of 23 , Mar 7, 2010
                I should point out that if you get a mill "CNC-ready", one half of the
                set of calibrated dials won't be available to tell you where you are.
                So you can only do the most basic of operations with it, like truing up
                an edge or touching off. Anything more sophisticated, requiring
                positional accuracy, will have to wait until you hook up the motors and
                drivers. And really, once you have a CNC setup, the cranks are more of a
                nuisance than a help. Just about anything you can do by cranking you can
                do either by jogging (continuously or in increments) or by MDI commands.
                So if you're planning to actually use a mill or lathe for a while before
                investing in the CNC stuff, get the manual version, which has the sets
                of dials installed.

                Andrew Werby
                www.computersculpture.com
              • Chuck Rice
                Are you sure about that? The calibrations are on the dials, not the mill. So you only need to scratch a mark or put a piece of tape on the mill, then you can
                Message 7 of 23 , Mar 7, 2010
                  Are you sure about that? The calibrations are on the dials, not the mill. So you only need to scratch a mark or put a piece of tape on the mill, then you can use the wheels with no problem. I have a CNC with the wheels on, but I almost never use them, except for the one on the rotary table. Still, my computer was down for a while, and I still was able to use the mill with the wheels. -Chuck-



                  On Mar 7, 2010, at 2:54 PM, Andrew Werby wrote:

                  > I should point out that if you get a mill "CNC-ready", one half of the
                  > set of calibrated dials won't be available to tell you where you are.
                  > So you can only do the most basic of operations with it, like truing up
                  > an edge or touching off. Anything more sophisticated, requiring
                  > positional accuracy, will have to wait until you hook up the motors and
                  > drivers. And really, once you have a CNC setup, the cranks are more of a
                  > nuisance than a help. Just about anything you can do by cranking you can
                  > do either by jogging (continuously or in increments) or by MDI commands.
                  > So if you're planning to actually use a mill or lathe for a while before
                  > investing in the CNC stuff, get the manual version, which has the sets
                  > of dials installed.
                  >
                  > Andrew Werby
                  > www.computersculpture.com
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Martin Dobbins
                  You can get around the limitations of getting the CNC ready kit if you aren t ready to add motors and a control system by copying project #10 on the
                  Message 8 of 23 , Mar 7, 2010
                    You can get around the limitations of getting the "CNC ready" kit if you aren't ready to add motors and a control system by copying project #10 on the following page.  There is provision to add a "zero" witness mark so you can manually machine with some accuracy until you're ready to go CNC:

                    http://www.sherline.com/CNCproj.htm

                    Martin


                    --- On Sun, 3/7/10, Andrew Werby  wrote:








                     









                    I should point out that if you get a mill "CNC-ready", one half of the

                    set of calibrated dials won't be available to tell you where you are.

                    So you can only do the most basic of operations with it, like truing up

                    an edge or touching off. Anything more sophisticated, requiring

                    positional accuracy, will have to wait until you hook up the motors and

                    drivers. And really, once you have a CNC setup, the cranks are more of a

                    nuisance than a help. Just about anything you can do by cranking you can

                    do either by jogging (continuously or in increments) or by MDI commands.

                    So if you're planning to actually use a mill or lathe for a while before

                    investing in the CNC stuff, get the manual version, which has the sets

                    of dials installed.



                    Andrew Werby

                    www.computersculptu re.com























                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Marty Swartz
                    @wongsterwish - I m afraid that I don t have a photo, as I have since added steppers and Gecko G540 to control them. They are the essence of simplicity: 1)
                    Message 9 of 23 , Mar 8, 2010
                      @wongsterwish -

                      I'm afraid that I don't have a photo, as I have since added steppers and
                      Gecko G540 to control them. They are the essence of simplicity:

                      1) Make a small plate 2.25" square. (Make three if you're doing all 3 axes.)
                      2) Scribe diagonal lines between diagonal corners. This X shows where the
                      center of the plate is. Drill a .25" hole right there, this is for the
                      manual shaft.
                      3) Drill 5/32 holes in the four corners, in spots matching the holes in the
                      motor mounts. (If you want to be precise, find a spec sheet for _any_ NEMA23
                      motor, the exact hole placements will be shown there.
                      4) Cut some 1/4 rod, I used brass, sufficiently long so that it will reach
                      into the coupler (inside the stepper mount) and about a 1/2" beyond the
                      plate described in step.
                      5) mount the 1/4" rods into the coupling. (The setscrew in the coupler can
                      be reached through the small hole in the SIDE of the plastic mount.
                      6) Slide the plate over the rod, and fasten in place with the screws
                      provided by Sherline (I think)
                      6) Tighten the handwheels on the rods, draw a in a convenient spot to serve
                      as a reference point.

                      @Martin,
                      The mounting plate shown on the Sherline web site is indeed very nice, but
                      it sure as heck looks like you need another operable milling machine to make
                      it! There are acknowledged to be two types of folks who are using these
                      machines. (And a big gray area in between.) On the one hand are folks who
                      like to make tools and parts for their tools. The other extreme is folks who
                      need to get something made, in the most straightforward manner possible. I
                      admire the work of the first kind of machinist, but I fall somewhere close
                      to the other end, I need to "get 'er done" so I can make something to sell,
                      in order to afford the steppers and G540! It's great that there is room
                      for both types here on this forum.

                      Best,
                      - Marty

                      --
                      Eighty percent of success is showing up. - Woody Allen
                      http://abbott-street.blogspot.com/


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • wongsterwish
                      Thanks Marty. The article on Sherline s site calls for a bushing to be used on the mounting plate. I see that it is not necessary from your descriptions. Will
                      Message 10 of 23 , Mar 8, 2010
                        Thanks Marty. The article on Sherline's site calls for a bushing to be used on the mounting plate. I see that it is not necessary from your descriptions.

                        Will test it out.

                        Regards,
                        Wong

                        --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, Marty Swartz <marty.swartz@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > @wongsterwish -
                        >
                        > I'm afraid that I don't have a photo, as I have since added steppers and
                        > Gecko G540 to control them. They are the essence of simplicity:
                        >
                        > 1) Make a small plate 2.25" square. (Make three if you're doing all 3 axes.)
                        > 2) Scribe diagonal lines between diagonal corners. This X shows where the
                        > center of the plate is. Drill a .25" hole right there, this is for the
                        > manual shaft.
                        > 3) Drill 5/32 holes in the four corners, in spots matching the holes in the
                        > motor mounts. (If you want to be precise, find a spec sheet for _any_ NEMA23
                        > motor, the exact hole placements will be shown there.
                        > 4) Cut some 1/4 rod, I used brass, sufficiently long so that it will reach
                        > into the coupler (inside the stepper mount) and about a 1/2" beyond the
                        > plate described in step.
                        > 5) mount the 1/4" rods into the coupling. (The setscrew in the coupler can
                        > be reached through the small hole in the SIDE of the plastic mount.
                        > 6) Slide the plate over the rod, and fasten in place with the screws
                        > provided by Sherline (I think)
                        > 6) Tighten the handwheels on the rods, draw a in a convenient spot to serve
                        > as a reference point.
                      • Alan Marconett
                        I d want either a bushing, or a ball bearing here. I suppose it depends on how long you re going to use it. Alan KM6VV
                        Message 11 of 23 , Mar 8, 2010
                          I'd want either a bushing, or a ball bearing here. I suppose it depends on
                          how long you're going to use it.

                          Alan KM6VV

                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > On Behalf Of wongsterwish
                          >
                          > Thanks Marty. The article on Sherline's site calls for a bushing to be
                          > used on the mounting plate. I see that it is not necessary from your
                          > descriptions.
                          >
                          > Will test it out.
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          > Wong
                          >
                        • imserv1
                          ... These are also now available: http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/handle-adaptor.aspx Fred Smith - IMService
                          Message 12 of 23 , Mar 17, 2010
                            --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, Martin Dobbins <trainnutz@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > You can get around the limitations of getting the "CNC ready" kit if you aren't ready to add motors and a control system by copying project #10 on the following page.  There is provision to add a "zero" witness mark so you can manually machine with some accuracy until you're ready to go CNC:
                            >
                            > http://www.sherline.com/CNCproj.htm

                            These are also now available:

                            http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/handle-adaptor.aspx

                            Fred Smith - IMService
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