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48vDC Power Supply - What Now?

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  • goodoljer
    Hi all, I m planning on replacing the steppers and electronics in an old D&M mill trainer (Sherline 5400 mill). The power supply in the D&M is (apparently) a
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 29, 2008
      Hi all,

      I'm planning on replacing the steppers and electronics in an old D&M
      mill trainer (Sherline 5400 mill). The power supply in the D&M is
      (apparently) a 48vDC with a 5vDC tap. however, the packages I'm
      looking at tend to be rated at anywhere from 36vDC (bi-polar)
      to 44vDC (uni-polar).

      Is there a no-risk, low-cost, for absolute dummies way to "cap" the
      output from my existing copper donut style power supply or am I better
      to spend the extra $50 or so and take the bundle with a 24vDC or
      36vDC power supply included? I'm an "old fart" and really have no
      desire to get into electronics and I'm sure the necessary tools would eat
      up that much money anyway so please don't try to convince me it's easy :-)

      Thanks much,
      Gerry
    • Jerry Jankura
      ... If the power supply that you have is regulated, there may be an adjustment potentiometer that will allow you to set the voltage to a lower than design
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 29, 2008
        On Jun 29, 2008, at 4:01 PM, goodoljer wrote:

        > I'm planning on replacing the steppers and electronics in an old D&M
        > mill trainer (Sherline 5400 mill). The power supply in the D&M is
        > (apparently) a 48vDC with a 5vDC tap. however, the packages I'm
        > looking at tend to be rated at anywhere from 36vDC (bi-polar)
        > to 44vDC (uni-polar).

        If the power supply that you have is regulated, there may be an
        adjustment potentiometer that will allow you to set the voltage to a
        lower than "design" value. If it's one of those supplies that use a
        transformer, diode bridge, and filter capacitor, there's no really
        good way to accomplish the task and you'd be better to buy a new power
        supply. You might visit one of those surplus houses - mpja.com for
        example, and purchase one of their industrial surplus units. A
        switching supply is much lighter than a conventional power supply and,
        while not necessary for CNC, the regulation doesn't hurt.

        > Jerry Jankura

        So many toys.... So little time....
      • goodoljer
        Hi Jerry, Thanks kindly for the insight. It s one of those donut shaped units and there doesn t appear to be any electronic components tied directly to it.
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 29, 2008
          Hi Jerry,

          Thanks kindly for the insight. It's one of those donut shaped units and
          there doesn't appear to be any electronic components tied directly to it.
          It's 1989 vintage. sounds like I'm best to pick up a pre-bundled pkg.
          and maybe even sell this big copper coil for a few bucks :-)

          - Gerry

          --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Jankura <toolznglue@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > On Jun 29, 2008, at 4:01 PM, goodoljer wrote:
          >
          > > I'm planning on replacing the steppers and electronics in an old D&M
          > > mill trainer (Sherline 5400 mill). The power supply in the D&M is
          > > (apparently) a 48vDC with a 5vDC tap. however, the packages I'm
          > > looking at tend to be rated at anywhere from 36vDC (bi-polar)
          > > to 44vDC (uni-polar).
          >
          > If the power supply that you have is regulated, there may be an
          > adjustment potentiometer that will allow you to set the voltage to a
          > lower than "design" value. If it's one of those supplies that use a
          > transformer, diode bridge, and filter capacitor, there's no really
          > good way to accomplish the task and you'd be better to buy a new power
          > supply. You might visit one of those surplus houses - mpja.com for
          > example, and purchase one of their industrial surplus units. A
          > switching supply is much lighter than a conventional power supply and,
          > while not necessary for CNC, the regulation doesn't hurt.
          >
          > > Jerry Jankura
          >
          > So many toys.... So little time....
          >
        • Ron Ginger
          ... Be careful, the speed of a stepper is directly related to the supply voltage. If you use one of the packages, like Xylotex, at 24volts you may have a very
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 30, 2008
            >
            > Hi all,
            >
            > I'm planning on replacing the steppers and electronics in an old D&M
            > mill trainer (Sherline 5400 mill). The power supply in the D&M is
            > (apparently) a 48vDC with a 5vDC tap. however, the packages I'm
            > looking at tend to be rated at anywhere from 36vDC (bi-polar)
            > to 44vDC (uni-polar).
            >
            >

            Be careful, the speed of a stepper is directly related to the supply
            voltage. If you use one of the packages, like Xylotex, at 24volts you
            may have a very poor performing machine.

            ron ginger
          • goodoljer
            Thanks much for that reminder Ron. I think as consumers we force some very good suppliers to bundle a 24v vs. a 36v power supply or other similar scenarios
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 30, 2008
              Thanks much for that reminder Ron. I think as consumers we force some
              very good suppliers to bundle a 24v vs. a 36v power supply or other
              similar scenarios for, quite literally a matter of under $10. Amazingly,
              that "tiny" amount for a $1k+, and usually much higher, investment
              could put "good guys" like these out of business. It's nuts.

              Good example (and I've have NO connection whatsoever). Why is it that
              Probotix, whom everyone seems to have the greatest respect for, whose
              prices are right and who have a very helpful web site for newbies like me
              are aren't offering 36v (or even more) power supplies in their bundles?

              Not because they and others like them are dummies for sure (that's my
              job) but likely because dummies like me but with a bit less "research"
              time than me would put them out of business for a matter of 4 bucks
              or something similar - when we could then squeeze dramatically more
              efficiency out of our machines and be much happier and better off.

              Am I all alone on this???

              - Gerry

              --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, Ron Ginger <ronginger@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > >
              > > Hi all,
              > >
              > > I'm planning on replacing the steppers and electronics in an old D&M
              > > mill trainer (Sherline 5400 mill). The power supply in the D&M is
              > > (apparently) a 48vDC with a 5vDC tap. however, the packages I'm
              > > looking at tend to be rated at anywhere from 36vDC (bi-polar)
              > > to 44vDC (uni-polar).
              > >
              > >
              >
              > Be careful, the speed of a stepper is directly related to the supply
              > voltage. If you use one of the packages, like Xylotex, at 24volts you
              > may have a very poor performing machine.
              >
              > ron ginger
              >
            • xylotex
              Hi, Why do you suggest that a Xylotex at 24VDC may be a very poor peroformining machine? 30 to 40 IPM seems like it would be a good performing machine to me.
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 30, 2008
                Hi,
                Why do you suggest that a Xylotex at 24VDC may be a very poor
                peroformining machine?

                30 to 40 IPM seems like it would be a "good" performing machine
                to me. That's easily obtainable with a Xylotex system. And
                onwards up to 100 IPM with dampeners. The Sherlines were originally
                designed to be manual machines, which were then redesigned to have
                nema23 motor mounts to allow CNC conversion. 30 to 40 IPM is more
                than a typical Sherline needs to rapid at, and certainly more than a
                Sherline is going to be cutting at.

                What is "good" performance for a Sherline to you?

                Jeff


                --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, Ron Ginger <ronginger@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > >
                > > Hi all,
                > >
                > > I'm planning on replacing the steppers and electronics in an old
                D&M
                > > mill trainer (Sherline 5400 mill). The power supply in the D&M
                is
                > > (apparently) a 48vDC with a 5vDC tap. however, the packages I'm
                > > looking at tend to be rated at anywhere from 36vDC (bi-polar)
                > > to 44vDC (uni-polar).
                > >
                > >
                >
                > Be careful, the speed of a stepper is directly related to the
                supply
                > voltage. If you use one of the packages, like Xylotex, at 24volts
                you
                > may have a very poor performing machine.
                >
                > ron ginger
                >
              • Ron Ginger
                ... Sorry, I did not mean to knock the Xylotex, it seems to be a good product and used by many people. I used one on a Light Machines Sherline conversion and
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 1, 2008
                  >
                  > Hi,
                  > Why do you suggest that a Xylotex at 24VDC may be a very poor
                  > peroformining machine?
                  >
                  >
                  Sorry, I did not mean to knock the Xylotex, it seems to be a good
                  product and used by many people. I used one on a Light Machines Sherline
                  conversion and it has worked well enough. I tried to use one on my Emco
                  Compact 5 and it was much to slow. I switched to a 50v supply and Geckos
                  and got good performance.

                  However, it is a fact that stepper motors speed is directly proportional
                  to voltage, and any machine originally running on 54v is likely to be
                  much slower when converted to 24v.

                  ron ginger
                • Jack
                  Hello, I highly recommend the Xylotex 24v system. I can tell you that they have performed very favorably on several of our machines that were upgraded. The
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 1, 2008
                    Hello,

                    I highly recommend the Xylotex 24v system. I can tell you that they
                    have performed very favorably on several of our machines that were
                    upgraded. The performance is outstanding and have made 20 year old
                    machines run like new again.

                    Jack Heald
                    Minitech Machinery Corp



                    --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, "xylotex" <xylotex@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi,
                    > Why do you suggest that a Xylotex at 24VDC may be a very poor
                    > peroformining machine?
                    >
                    > 30 to 40 IPM seems like it would be a "good" performing machine
                    > to me. That's easily obtainable with a Xylotex system. And
                    > onwards up to 100 IPM with dampeners. The Sherlines were
                    originally
                    > designed to be manual machines, which were then redesigned to have
                    > nema23 motor mounts to allow CNC conversion. 30 to 40 IPM is more
                    > than a typical Sherline needs to rapid at, and certainly more than
                    a
                    > Sherline is going to be cutting at.
                    >
                    > What is "good" performance for a Sherline to you?
                    >
                    > Jeff
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, Ron Ginger <ronginger@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Hi all,
                    > > >
                    > > > I'm planning on replacing the steppers and electronics in an
                    old
                    > D&M
                    > > > mill trainer (Sherline 5400 mill). The power supply in the D&M
                    > is
                    > > > (apparently) a 48vDC with a 5vDC tap. however, the packages I'm
                    > > > looking at tend to be rated at anywhere from 36vDC (bi-polar)
                    > > > to 44vDC (uni-polar).
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > Be careful, the speed of a stepper is directly related to the
                    > supply
                    > > voltage. If you use one of the packages, like Xylotex, at 24volts
                    > you
                    > > may have a very poor performing machine.
                    > >
                    > > ron ginger
                    > >
                    >
                  • xylotex
                    Hi, If you were going to leave the original motors on the machine, and they were designed for 54V, then yes, indeed, I would say the Xylotex would not perform
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jul 1, 2008
                      Hi,
                      If you were going to leave the original motors on the machine, and
                      they were designed for 54V, then yes, indeed, I would say the
                      Xylotex would not perform well with them. Definitely, use Geckos in
                      such a situation. But, the original post mentioned replacing both
                      the electronics AND the motors, so the 54V motor and related
                      inductances, and their inherent higher voltage requirements do not
                      come in to play here.

                      If you were going to replace the motors and use the newer square
                      motors with a voltage rated at around 3V (which run well at an
                      overvoltage between 24VDC and 30VDC), then the Xylotex package will
                      work just fine, and give 30 to 40 IPM rapids (even more with
                      dampeners).

                      Jeff


                      --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, Ron Ginger <ronginger@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > > Hi,
                      > > Why do you suggest that a Xylotex at 24VDC may be a very poor
                      > > peroformining machine?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > Sorry, I did not mean to knock the Xylotex, it seems to be a good
                      > product and used by many people. I used one on a Light Machines
                      Sherline
                      > conversion and it has worked well enough. I tried to use one on my
                      Emco
                      > Compact 5 and it was much to slow. I switched to a 50v supply and
                      Geckos
                      > and got good performance.
                      >
                      > However, it is a fact that stepper motors speed is directly
                      proportional
                      > to voltage, and any machine originally running on 54v is likely to
                      be
                      > much slower when converted to 24v.
                      >
                      > ron ginger
                      >
                    • goodoljer
                      Hi Jeff, Thanks for the clarification. Any chance you could give me/us a for dummies explanation of the what, why and how of dampeners? Are these something
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jul 2, 2008
                        Hi Jeff,

                        Thanks for the clarification. Any chance you could give me/us a
                        "for dummies" explanation of the what, why and how of dampeners?
                        Are these something generally available to the consumer and as good
                        a value as most smaller steppers or is it more cost effective to
                        simply jump up a size on the 2,3 or 4 steppers typically needed?

                        Thanks kindly,
                        Gerry

                        --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, "xylotex" <xylotex@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi,
                        > If you were going to leave the original motors on the machine, and
                        > they were designed for 54V, then yes, indeed, I would say the
                        > Xylotex would not perform well with them. Definitely, use Geckos in
                        > such a situation. But, the original post mentioned replacing both
                        > the electronics AND the motors, so the 54V motor and related
                        > inductances, and their inherent higher voltage requirements do not
                        > come in to play here.
                        >
                        > If you were going to replace the motors and use the newer square
                        > motors with a voltage rated at around 3V (which run well at an
                        > overvoltage between 24VDC and 30VDC), then the Xylotex package will
                        > work just fine, and give 30 to 40 IPM rapids (even more with
                        > dampeners).
                        >
                        > Jeff
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In SherlineCNC@yahoogroups.com, Ron Ginger <ronginger@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Hi,
                        > > > Why do you suggest that a Xylotex at 24VDC may be a very poor
                        > > > peroformining machine?
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > Sorry, I did not mean to knock the Xylotex, it seems to be a good
                        > > product and used by many people. I used one on a Light Machines
                        > Sherline
                        > > conversion and it has worked well enough. I tried to use one on my
                        > Emco
                        > > Compact 5 and it was much to slow. I switched to a 50v supply and
                        > Geckos
                        > > and got good performance.
                        > >
                        > > However, it is a fact that stepper motors speed is directly
                        > proportional
                        > > to voltage, and any machine originally running on 54v is likely to
                        > be
                        > > much slower when converted to 24v.
                        > >
                        > > ron ginger
                        > >
                        >
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