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Daemon Gets a Raw Deal?

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  • Kimera
    OK here is a topic I have been dying to throw out there and see where it leads. Daemon waited 1700 years for Jaenelle, and is still a man in his prime. On the
    Message 1 of 29 , Jul 1 1:56 AM
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      OK here is a topic I have been dying to throw out there and see where it leads. "Daemon waited 1700 years for Jaenelle, and is still a man in his prime. On the other hand Jaenelle is one of the short lived races and has a life expectancy of if we are lucky 100 years (i think). Added to that is the fact that Jaenelle is unable to become demon dead or a guardian. (Dreams made flesh dont become demon dead/guardians once their lives are over according to Lorn in CoD)

      Now at various points throughout the story Daemon has given up his sanity, risked his body and strength, and alienated himself from his entire family at one point... all in the name of duty, honor, and above all love.

      The question stands: Is Daemon getting a raw deal? And if so what can help him?

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Kimera
      Depends... what is the Darkness? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 29 , Jul 1 2:17 AM
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        Depends... what is the Darkness?


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • hauntedtoilet
        Well... what if Daemon follows Jaenelle into the Darkness?
        Message 3 of 29 , Jul 1 2:17 AM
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          Well... what if Daemon follows Jaenelle into the Darkness?
        • tarnished_unicorn69
          Your right but if she is still queen and dreams made flesh, would she still be short lived? I don t believe it ever says how long each dream lived just that
          Message 4 of 29 , Jul 1 3:19 AM
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            Your right but if she is still queen and dreams made flesh, would she
            still be short lived? I don't believe it ever says how long each dream
            lived just that most died and not necessarily in a good way

            <<<(Dreams made flesh dont become demon dead/guardians once their
            lives are over according to Lorn in CoD)
            The question stands: Is Daemon getting a raw deal? And if so what can
            help him?>>>

            Would what is left of the family let him or could he?

            <<<Well... what if Daemon follows Jaenelle into the Darkness?>>>
          • Kimera
            Regardless of her talents or strength she comes from Chaillot, with pure Chaillot bloodlines... no long lived blood among them Unless someone pulls a miracle
            Message 5 of 29 , Jul 1 3:21 AM
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              Regardless of her talents or strength she comes from Chaillot, with 'pure' Chaillot bloodlines... no long lived blood among them

              Unless someone pulls a miracle from the darkness, or Daemon commits suicide to join her in whatever lies beyond Saetan's dominoin, he will spend at least as much time mourning her as he did waiting for her to come.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jilly Harris
              She s not still Queen as she no longer wears the Black or Ebony jewels. ... -- ~Jilly Friendship needs no explanation. [Non-text portions of this message
              Message 6 of 29 , Jul 1 3:27 AM
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                She's not still Queen as she no longer wears the Black or Ebony jewels.

                On 7/1/07, tarnished_unicorn69 <tarnished_unicorn69@...> wrote:
                >
                > Your right but if she is still queen and dreams made flesh, would she
                > still be short lived? I don't believe it ever says how long each dream
                > lived just that most died and not necessarily in a good way
                >
                > <<<(Dreams made flesh dont become demon dead/guardians once their
                > lives are over according to Lorn in CoD)
                > The question stands: Is Daemon getting a raw deal? And if so what can
                > help him?>>>
                >
                > Would what is left of the family let him or could he?
                >
                > <<<Well... what if Daemon follows Jaenelle into the Darkness?>>>
                >
                >
                >



                --
                ~Jilly

                "Friendship needs no explanation."


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Kimera
                WHOAH Being a queen is not dependant on her jeweled strength, and might I add that with OPAL her so called Grandmother was a Territory Queen. The only thing
                Message 7 of 29 , Jul 1 3:31 AM
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                  WHOAH

                  Being a queen is not dependant on her jeweled strength, and might I add that with OPAL her so called Grandmother was a Territory Queen.

                  The only thing Jaenelle lost with giving up (and she did chose to give up) Ebony, was the right to be Queen of Ebon Askavi, and that is even in question since its only tradition that states that the Queen of that particular place have at least the Black.

                  I am sure you would find were we able to go there and ask, that Draco and Geoffery would quietly assert that Witch will always have a home within the Black mountial,



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • tarnished_unicorn69
                  I believe that idea was covered in the books wrote She s not still Queen as she no longer
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jul 1 3:37 AM
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                    I believe that idea was covered in the books


                    <<< In ShadowRealms@yahoogroups.com, "Jilly Harris" <midalah@...> wrote
                    She's not still Queen as she no longer wears the Black or Ebony
                    jewels.>>>
                  • Jilly Harris
                    And yeah this is what I get for answering at this time of night/morning when I ve had no sleep in 24 hours. I know that she is still A Queen, but she is NOT
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jul 1 3:41 AM
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                      And yeah this is what I get for answering at this time of night/morning when
                      I've had no sleep in 24 hours. I know that she is still A Queen, but she is
                      NOT still Queen of Ebon Askavi. That was what I was referring to in my
                      statement when I said she was not still Queen because she doesn't wear the
                      Black or Ebony jewels any longer. I know she is still a Queen, cause even
                      broken, like her grandmother, it is still her caste. And she's still
                      considered the coven and boyos queen because she's Jaenelle. But as for
                      Queen of Ebon Askavi, no, she's not Queen. That was even stated in QotD and
                      I believe in Kaeleer's Heart.

                      On 7/1/07, Kimera <Kimera_stormryder@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > WHOAH
                      >
                      > Being a queen is not dependant on her jeweled strength, and might I add
                      > that with OPAL her so called Grandmother was a Territory Queen.
                      >
                      >

                      --
                      ~Jilly

                      "Friendship needs no explanation."


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Kimera
                      There you are completely correct... Draca did say the Queen of Ebon Askavi was dead. Worst moment of Daemons life. [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jul 1 3:43 AM
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                        There you are completely correct... Draca did say the Queen of Ebon Askavi was dead.

                        Worst moment of Daemons life.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • tarnished_unicorn69
                        I m sorry,in my opinion, but their physical shape,fluids etc I don t believe really has anything to do with it,I haven t forgotten what she really looks like
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jul 1 3:44 AM
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                          I'm sorry,in my opinion, but their physical shape,fluids etc I don't
                          believe really has anything to do with it,I haven't forgotten what she
                          really looks like

                          <<<<In ShadowRealms@yahoogroups.com, "Kimera" <Kimera_stormryder@...>
                          Regardless of her talents or strength she comes from Chaillot,
                          with 'pure' Chaillot bloodlines... no long lived blood among them>>>>
                        • Kimera
                          Avg lifespan for a short lived race is about 100 years Daemon explained this to Surreal at one point, while trying to convince her to become an educated
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jul 1 3:46 AM
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                            Avg lifespan for a short lived race is about 100 years

                            Daemon explained this to Surreal at one point, while trying to convince her to become an 'educated whore/assassian'

                            Im using bloodlines in the strictly genetic sense here.

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Jilly Harris
                            I m sure it was the worst moment of all their lives, because at that point in time, it implied that Jaenelle was dead. Because to them they were one and the
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jul 1 3:51 AM
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                              I'm sure it was the worst moment of all their lives, because at that point
                              in time, it implied that Jaenelle was dead. Because to them they were one
                              and the same. It's why Tersa got so annoyed with all of them for not
                              figuring it out sooner. And I knew I was correct, I've read the books so
                              many times I've lost count. But as I said. I've not had any sleep in over 24
                              hours. I also hit send before I was finished typing that first response.




                              --
                              ~Jilly

                              "Friendship needs no explanation."


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • tarnished_unicorn69
                              I still think there is going to be a problem with that,Because of her new jewel and the treaties
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jul 1 4:00 AM
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                                I still think there is going to be a problem with that,Because of her
                                new jewel and the treaties

                                <<<In ShadowRealms@yahoogroups.com, "Kimera" <Kimera_stormryder@...>
                                wrote:
                                There you are completely correct... Draca did say the Queen of Ebon
                                Askavi was dead. >>>
                              • Soli
                                ... I doubt he d think so, considering he s got to see her grow up, then marry her and actually have her in his life after he thought she was lost. They re
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jul 1 5:34 AM
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                                  On 7/1/07, Kimera <Kimera_stormryder@...> wrote:
                                  > The question stands: Is Daemon getting a raw deal? And if so what can help him?
                                  I doubt he'd think so, considering he's got to see her grow up, then
                                  marry her and actually have her in his life after he thought she was
                                  lost. They're going to have at least 60 years together as wife and
                                  husband.
                                  Besides, I suspect that should their story continue to be told, there
                                  are other factors that could come into play. Only Anne will know for
                                  certain.

                                  (This is also amusing because I am rereading the trilogy right now for
                                  the first time in a few years. Oh my I'd forgotten just how good this
                                  all was. While I am vehemently not a fanfic person, my mind keeps
                                  coming up with various potential character types and factors to
                                  consider.)

                                  Soli

                                  --
                                  one long, shining thread of coincidence
                                  quantumbutterfly@...
                                • Jaeneva
                                  She does... But we should remember she changed the dream too. Is it possible that longevity could have changed with it? Jae ... did waiting for her to come.
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jul 1 9:38 AM
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                                    She does...

                                    But we should remember she changed the dream too. Is it possible that
                                    longevity could have changed with it?

                                    Jae

                                    On 7/1/2007 3:21:08 AM, Kimera (kimera_stormryder@...) wrote:
                                    > Regardless of her talents or strength she comes from Chaillot, with 'pure'
                                    > Chaillot bloodlines... no long lived blood among them
                                    >
                                    > Unless someone pulls a miracle from the darkness, or Daemon commits
                                    > suicide to join her in whatever lies beyond
                                    > Saetan's dominoin, he will spend at least as much time mourning her as he
                                    did waiting for her to come.
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
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                                  • klmeri@aol.com
                                    In a message dated 7/1/2007 12:40:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, evengstr@freesim.org writes: She does... But we should remember she changed the dream too. Is
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jul 1 10:17 AM
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                                      In a message dated 7/1/2007 12:40:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                      evengstr@... writes:

                                      She does...

                                      But we should remember she changed the dream too. Is it possible that
                                      longevity could have changed with it?

                                      Jae


                                      That's an interesting question. Still, I would think the answer is no.
                                      Jaenelle dreamed of an 'ordinary' life; but she's not the type of person to
                                      dream of a long life as well. I mean, most of her dreamers are from the
                                      short-lived races (Kaeleer is pre-dominantly short-lived, and assuming that kindred
                                      are also short-lived). So why change the essence of Witch?

                                      The truly interesting part is this: Daemon and Jaenelle's children will live
                                      about as long as Surreal will--seeing as they will be half-and-half. By the
                                      time the children are in old age, Daemon will finally be in his old age as
                                      well! If he chooses to live on. I'm iffy on that subject, because Daemon may
                                      want to see his children grow up and have children of their own. I wouldn't
                                      imagine he'd become a Guardian or anything, because, unlike his father, he
                                      has no good reason to live on past his natural time. (Saetan was determined
                                      to wait for the next Witch--and Guardian was how he could do it!) So maybe in
                                      honor of her memory and probably her wishes, he would live on for their
                                      family.

                                      My two cents!

                                      -Kathryn



                                      ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • LadyDragus
                                      This is a question I have often asked myself... But I think the last person said something that rang true.. What if when she changed the dream, she also
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jul 1 10:22 AM
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                                        This is a question I have often asked myself... But I think the last
                                        person said something that rang true..

                                        What if when she changed the dream, she also chnaged how long she was
                                        going to live.

                                        And who is to say (other than Anne) that the new jewel she wears is
                                        not, stronger than black??? Was that ever mentiond.. I do not think
                                        so..

                                        So she could still be Queen, and Witch all in the same... Just not as
                                        strong as she was before...

                                        Lots of interstring tidbits.. Makes me want to read the books again....
                                      • Kathleen
                                        ... is ... and appears to him as Kaeleers heart (horns, hooves etc) she shows him webs of power spiralling away, I took that to mean that the power is stored
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Jul 1 3:41 PM
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                                          --- In ShadowRealms@yahoogroups.com, "LadyDragus" <urlord.dragus@...>
                                          wrote:
                                          >
                                          > (snip)
                                          >
                                          > ....And who is to say (other than Anne) that the new jewel she wears
                                          is
                                          > not, stronger than black??? Was that ever mentiond.. I do not think
                                          > so..
                                          >
                                          > >If I remember correctly when she takes Daemon to the "misty place"
                                          and appears to him as Kaeleers heart (horns, hooves etc) she shows him
                                          webs of power spiralling away, I took that to mean that the power is
                                          stored if she ever needs it and that Twilight's Dawn will allow her to
                                          access it (just my thought). Also I think that if she does die before
                                          him he will live on for their children ('cause they just gotta have
                                          kids pleeease!)
                                        • Adrienne Roehrich
                                          I would not assume the kindred are primarily short-lived. I ve actually always assumed that magical animals would have longer lifespans than ordinary animals.
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Jul 1 4:31 PM
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                                            I would not assume the kindred are primarily short-lived. I've actually
                                            always assumed that magical animals would have longer lifespans than
                                            ordinary animals. Ordinary animals tend to be short-lived in prey-predator
                                            settings, which I think may not be as likely for kindred - with the
                                            exception of the slaughter by the blood. However, if we look at animals in
                                            our own world, some lives for a couple hundred years. We are finding more
                                            and more species that do. Now let's apply magic to them and why would they
                                            not be?

                                            It is probably huge folly to look at the RW and then try to relate a FW to
                                            it, but somehow the above makes sense to me. I always thought that while
                                            there were not many long-lived races in the realms, there was still a
                                            balance to the long and short lived races. If you had too many long-lived
                                            races, they would rule everywhere all the time because the short-lived races
                                            would expire before they could secure a hold. Why would the kindred differ?

                                            Anyway, I used to worry about the Jaenelle short lived, Daemon long lived
                                            thing. I think there are several discussions in the archives about it.
                                            But, I also have decided to let it go.

                                            Besides, Daemon waited 1700 years, went insane, and almost lost Jaenelle
                                            after only a couple dozen years with her. I think he values this "extra"
                                            time with her. And, like someone else said, who knows what will happen in
                                            the future of the realm that could change lifespans?

                                            Adrienne

                                            On 7/1/07, klmeri@... <klmeri@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > short-lived races (Kaeleer is pre-dominantly short-lived, and assuming
                                            > that kindred
                                            > are also short-lived). So why change the essence of Witch?
                                            >






                                            --
                                            http://bookcrossing.com/referral/adrienne10
                                            http://360.yahoo.com/adrienne10_99


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • scarlet_lullaby13
                                            I can t help but agree with the new dream. The Queen of Ebon Askavi did indeed die, because her work, in the sense, was done. When Jaeneele was reborn ( or
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Jul 1 6:58 PM
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                                              I can't help but agree with the new dream. The Queen of Ebon Askavi
                                              did indeed die, because her work, in the sense, was done. When
                                              Jaeneele was 'reborn' ( or rather redreamt), what she wanted was
                                              accounted for, which included the ability to do basic craft, and live
                                              an-as-close-to-normal life as possible. We can sit around all day and
                                              ponder reasons as to how long she may or may not live, and just how
                                              strong her power is, but the fact remains, the only person who could
                                              know for a certain is Anne, and if she'd wanted us to know all the
                                              answers to all of these questions we would've read about them in her
                                              books.
                                              And, whilst Daemon is hugely protective and agressive, Jaenelle has a
                                              certain affect pn him, which may mellow him out over the next couple
                                              of decades. Daemon may become wiser etc. And I think how Daemon
                                              chooses to live his life after Jaenelle's possible death, will depend
                                              entirely on how she passes (That is, if Anne ever chooses to write
                                              about those characters lives that far in the future).

                                              My two cents:)

                                              Kathryn.
                                            • LadyDragus
                                              ohhh your right, I forgot about when she took him to that place and showed him what true Witch was... I forgot.. And I also think He would stay alivve for
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Jul 1 7:25 PM
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                                                ohhh your right, I forgot about when she took him to that place and
                                                showed him what "true Witch" was... I forgot..

                                                And I also think He would stay alivve for the childern.. Why would he
                                                choose to die, unless it was to take Satens place
                                              • Jaeneva
                                                *waves* Was me! A thought on her new jewel... since it resonates with all colors, and yet is of none, could there even still be the potential of Ebony in it?
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Jul 1 10:04 PM
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                                                  *waves* Was me!

                                                  A thought on her new jewel... since it resonates with all colors, and yet is
                                                  of none, could there even still be the potential of Ebony in it?

                                                  They didn't test the depths... (that we know of) nor do they (still) fully
                                                  understand it.

                                                  Jae

                                                  On 7/1/2007 10:22:03 AM, LadyDragus (urlord.dragus@...) wrote:
                                                  > This is a question I have often asked myself... But I think the last
                                                  > person said something that rang true..
                                                  >
                                                  > What if when she changed the dream, she also chnaged how long she was
                                                  > going to live.
                                                  >
                                                  > And who is to say (other than Anne) that the new jewel she wears is
                                                  > not, stronger than black??? Was that ever mentiond.. I do not think
                                                  > so..
                                                  >
                                                  > So she could still be Queen, and Witch all in the same... Just not as
                                                  > strong as she was before...
                                                  >
                                                  > Lots of interstring tidbits.. Makes me want to read the books again....
                                                  >
                                                  >
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                                                • celestially_seasoned
                                                  Who says that Jaenelle can t become a demon? Didn t Saetan say near the end, after Alexandra was broken (ok, I could be wrong because I m at work and don t
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Jul 2 2:45 PM
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                                                    Who says that Jaenelle can't become a demon? Didn't Saetan say near the
                                                    end, after Alexandra was broken (ok, I could be wrong because I'm at
                                                    work and don't have the book in front of me), "Live a long life, and
                                                    burn yourself out at the end of it, because I'll be here waiting for
                                                    you to call in the debt..." Ok, not an exact quote, cause it's from
                                                    memory. But since Alexandra is human, and from Chaillot, couldn't
                                                    Jaenelle also become demon dead? Anyone who has the book handy, check
                                                    me on this.

                                                    Also, speaking as a married person, a little bit of wonderful can
                                                    sustain you far better than a lot of mediocre.

                                                    Laura
                                                  • Jilly Harris
                                                    Lorn told Saetan, though, that Witch did not become clidru dyathe, which are demon dead children, so it would stand to reason that Witch does not become demon
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Jul 2 2:51 PM
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                                                      Lorn told Saetan, though, that Witch did not become clidru dyathe, which are
                                                      demon dead children, so it would stand to reason that Witch does not become
                                                      demon dead even when an adult.

                                                      On 7/2/07, celestially_seasoned <wisecal@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Who says that Jaenelle can't become a demon? Didn't Saetan say near the
                                                      > end, after Alexandra was broken (ok, I could be wrong because I'm at
                                                      > work and don't have the book in front of me), "Live a long life, and
                                                      > burn yourself out at the end of it, because I'll be here waiting for
                                                      > you to call in the debt..." Ok, not an exact quote, cause it's from
                                                      > memory. But since Alexandra is human, and from Chaillot, couldn't
                                                      > Jaenelle also become demon dead? Anyone who has the book handy, check
                                                      > me on this.
                                                      >
                                                      > Also, speaking as a married person, a little bit of wonderful can
                                                      > sustain you far better than a lot of mediocre.
                                                      >
                                                      > Laura
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >



                                                      --
                                                      ~Jilly

                                                      "Friendship needs no explanation."


                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • Craig Corlis
                                                      I wonder.. When Jaenelle unleashed the Maelstrom and cleansed the blood, she changed during her recovery. That much is a simple fact. To what degree, we can t
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Jul 2 3:22 PM
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                                                        I wonder.. When Jaenelle unleashed the Maelstrom and cleansed the blood, she
                                                        changed during her recovery. That much is a simple fact. To what degree, we
                                                        can't be sure. But it is entirely possible that the change also included
                                                        either:

                                                        A) Her longevity, or
                                                        B) Her ability to become a demon/guardian.

                                                        More importantly, however, is the fact that it really doesn't matter. When
                                                        Jaenelle, eventually, dies, she will return to the Darkness, and as it
                                                        states in the books, eventually return to life. Same goes for Daemon.

                                                        He waited 1700 years for his soulmate. I doubt a little thing like rebirth
                                                        would keep them apart long.

                                                        -Craig


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                                                      • Gentlewolf3389@Aol.com
                                                        Live a long life, Alexandra. Live a long life and burn yourself out at the end of it so that you return straight to the Darkness. If you don t, if you end
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Jul 2 11:13 PM
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                                                          "Live a long life, Alexandra. Live a long life and burn yourself out at the
                                                          end of it so that you return straight to the Darkness. If you don't, if you
                                                          end up making the transition to demon-dead. I'll be waiting for you." page
                                                          217 Saetan Daemon SaDiablo
                                                          Just because Alexandra can become a demon-dead does not mean that Jaenelle
                                                          can. You remember that Lorn stated that Witch cannot become a demon-dead child
                                                          then, if would seem as an adult that this would not be possible but something
                                                          that a lot of you seem to over look....or maybe it is me.
                                                          A guardian and demon-dead person are not the same so why them can Jaenelle
                                                          not become a guardian? they are not the same thing and the lives of these two
                                                          being are though similar, there are not the same. a guardian is still in part
                                                          alive while a in order to become a demon you have to die, Saetan talks a
                                                          little about this in a few places through out the trilogy. In Queen he talks
                                                          about making the transition and becoming a demon.
                                                          So it would stand that if they are not the same, why could Jaenelle not
                                                          become one and then live on with Daemon til it is his time and then they
                                                          could both fade together. That way both would see their children grow and she
                                                          wouldn't be leaving him behind nor would he have to do anything like suicide.
                                                          Just a thought.
                                                          Mori



                                                          ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


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                                                        • tarnished_unicorn69
                                                          ok group maybe the New Jaenelle can but I very distinctly remember getting the idea from the Books that Dreams once they died they were dead, no guardian,no
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Jul 2 11:59 PM
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                                                            ok group maybe the New Jaenelle can but I very distinctly remember
                                                            getting the idea from the Books that Dreams once they died they were
                                                            dead, no guardian,no demon-dead,just part of a piece of the web rolled
                                                            up and put into a niche,now I need to go re-read the books again to
                                                            see if that was true or just a observation on my part
                                                          • finn13@ksu.edu
                                                            Somthing that might help in this discussion is the blood FAQ Anne has on her website (www.annebishop.com)in the extra s section. Q. Is Jaenelle from one of
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Jul 4 6:43 AM
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                                                              Somthing that might help in this discussion is the blood FAQ Anne has on
                                                              her website (www.annebishop.com)in the extra's section.
                                                              "Q. Is Jaenelle from one of the long-lived races?

                                                              A. No, she is from Chaillot, where the average life-span might be around
                                                              100-125 years. Only the Dhemlans, Hayllians and Eyriens have
                                                              exceptionally long (4500-5000 years) life-spans."

                                                              And for the demon-dead/Guardian question:
                                                              "Q. What's the difference between being demon-dead and a Guardian?

                                                              A. The demon-dead have physically died, and a Guardian straddles the
                                                              line between the living and the dead but has not physically died before
                                                              making the transition to Guardian. Also, the demon-dead who have been
                                                              around for a long time are the exceptions. Most of them don't stay
                                                              around anywhere near that long."

                                                              Hope that helps,
                                                              Jenn
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