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OT differing opinions

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  • Kandra
    Charlotte wrote:
    Message 1 of 24 , Jul 12, 2006
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      Charlotte wrote:

      <<I've actually left groups and lists, because no one would listen to
      anything
      I said that was positive concerning the Anita series, and would go on and on
      about every single bad thing, while discounting the good.>>

      I'm glad you haven't felt the need to leave us because of that reason or
      any other opinion of a book/author. For example, I can't stand Guy Gavriel
      Kay and can't understand why anyone reads his books..smile. Obviously
      I'm in the minority as his books are pretty big sellers.

      <<Which is why I'm glad that the people on this list seem to be relatively
      sane and good natured, and willing to listen to an opinion you don't
      necessarily
      agree with :). >>

      Key words here are relatively sane....lol! :) I have to admit that in the
      past there
      have been a couple of occasions when things became a little heated..but
      never
      erupted into a "flame war" or anything. People in this list do tend to be
      more
      tolerant of others' opinions etc. and I hope it continues that way :)


      Kandra, hiding the ladle close by...just in case <g>




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    • c91xgirl@aol.com
      Message 2 of 24 , Jul 12, 2006
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        <<I'm glad you haven't felt the need to leave us because of that reason or
        any other opinion of a book/author. For example, I can't stand Guy Gavriel
        Kay and can't understand why anyone reads his books..smile>>

        I am too! And I'm not a huge fan of Guy Gavriel Kay myself. I tried reading
        Last Light of the Sun, I believe it was, and never got into it or finished it.
        I haven't tried any other books by Kay though; I may try reading another
        book by him, just to see how it goes. Another author I never really got into was
        Terry Brooks. I tried reading one of his books a long time ago, and just
        couldn't get into it. Can't recall which book it was, though. Of course, telling
        this to Fantasy Book Groups is generally met with disbelief. He is very
        highly thought of among fantasy readers.

        Charlotte


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      • Nonny
        ... I haven t really been paying much attention to this specific discussion -- been very busy lately -- but what I like about book discussion here is that
        Message 3 of 24 , Jul 12, 2006
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          On 7/13/06, Kandra <lovestoread@...> wrote:
          > I'm glad you haven't felt the need to leave us because of that reason or
          > any other opinion of a book/author. For example, I can't stand Guy Gavriel
          > Kay and can't understand why anyone reads his books..smile. Obviously
          > I'm in the minority as his books are pretty big sellers.

          I haven't really been paying much attention to this specific
          discussion -- been very busy lately -- but what I like about book
          discussion here is that people don't feel the need to put someone else
          down because the other person liked a book they hated. I've heard
          people elsewhere insinuate very heavily that if someone liked those
          books, they had no class, were stupid, there was something *wrong*
          with them, etcetera.

          Whereas there's a really friendly atmosphere here for discussion, and
          I like that a lot. :)
          --
          Nonny
          aka Elisabeth Drake
          http://www.emdrake.com
        • Kandra
          Charlotte wrote:
          Message 4 of 24 , Jul 12, 2006
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            Charlotte wrote:

            <<I am too! And I'm not a huge fan of Guy Gavriel Kay myself.
            <snip>
            Another author I never really got into was
            Terry Brooks. I tried reading one of his books a long time ago, and just
            couldn't get into it. Can't recall which book it was, though. Of course,
            telling
            this to Fantasy Book Groups is generally met with disbelief. He is very
            highly thought of among fantasy readers.>>

            I think it's a good idea to try another book by an author you didn't like
            before...
            like you're considering trying another book by GG Kay. After all, it might
            just be that book, right? I did try 3 books and felt the same way about all
            3, so figured he just wasn't someone I cared to read.

            As for Brooks...well, I honestly think it depends on the age of the reader
            or
            what life sometimes brings to a reader, ya know? I've "outgrown" some
            authors
            that I realllly liked when I was in my late teens and twenties. Brooks was
            never
            really high on my list but I did like him. However, I don't anymore. It's
            not
            a strong dislike...I do have some authors I strongly dislike but I'm sure we
            all
            do :)

            K.
          • Kandra
            Nonny wrote:
            Message 5 of 24 , Jul 13, 2006
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              Nonny wrote:

              <<I haven't really been paying much attention to this specific
              discussion -- been very busy lately -- but what I like about book
              discussion here is that people don't feel the need to put someone else
              down because the other person liked a book they hated.>>

              I'm really glad to hear this from you and Charlotte. We strive to have
              a list that's comfortable...discussions and differing opinions are fine,
              putting down a person in any way earns that one a swift kick! Haven't
              had to do that for awhile though...but 2-3 years ago or so we had one
              or two we needed to "talk" to ;) Btw, I'm glad you "jumped in" this
              discussion :)

              << I've heard people elsewhere insinuate very heavily that if
              someone liked those books, they had no class, were stupid, there
              was something *wrong* with them, etcetera.>>

              I know what you mean...been in those lists myself and left! I have
              to admit that sometimes I DO wonder how someone could possibly
              like a particular book/author/whatever but I either keep it to myself
              or try to find out why they like the book so much..maybe I'm missing
              something! Thats why in my message to Charlotte I suggested her idea
              of reading another book by Kay was a good idea...maybe it was just
              that one book that didn't appeal to her.

              <<Whereas there's a really friendly atmosphere here for discussion, and
              I like that a lot. :)>>

              *smile* thank you from both BJ and me! We *do* try :)

              K.

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            • Nonny
              ... Exactly. Even if I didn t like the book, I d like to know what other people see in them. My fiance adores the recent Anita Blake novels, even though they
              Message 6 of 24 , Jul 13, 2006
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                On 7/13/06, Kandra <lovestoread@...> wrote:
                > I know what you mean...been in those lists myself and left! I have
                > to admit that sometimes I DO wonder how someone could possibly
                > like a particular book/author/whatever but I either keep it to myself
                > or try to find out why they like the book so much..maybe I'm missing
                > something!

                Exactly. Even if I didn't like the book, I'd like to know what other
                people see in them. My fiance adores the recent Anita Blake novels,
                even though they piss me off -- but he likes the sex, and sees it as
                character development. I disagree with this, but I can see the
                perspective. Just didn't work for me.

                But then there's other situations where it's completely different. For
                example, I read a book some while ago that I really, really loved ...
                up till the ending, where the MC did something that made me lose all
                sympathy for her and want to quit reading the series, period. I ranted
                about it to someone who'd just read the same book, and he was like,
                "... um, what are you talking about? He's not dead."

                Me: "Yes, he is."

                Him: "Well, he was killed, yeah, but ... wait a minute. Did you read
                the epilogue?"

                Me: "... there was an epilogue?"

                Apparently the pages had gotten stuck together and I hadn't noticed
                they were there -- very short epilogue. But basically, it changed the
                way the book ended entirely, and even though I wasn't happy with the
                character's actions, it didn't alter the dynamic of the series enough
                that I wouldn't buy the next book.

                Sometimes, the things you miss can be important. ;)
                --
                Nonny
                aka Elisabeth Drake
                http://www.emdrake.com
              • MTNMan
                oddly enough terry brooks is generaly not highly thought of among fantasy readers.. I cant really remember the laat time somebody put him in their favorite
                Message 7 of 24 , Jul 13, 2006
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                  oddly enough terry brooks is generaly not highly thought of among fantasy readers..

                  I cant really remember the laat time somebody put him in their favorite list.

                  c91xgirl@... wrote:
                  . Another author I never really got into was
                  Terry Brooks. I tried reading one of his books a long time ago, and just
                  couldn't get into it. Can't recall which book it was, though. Of course, telling
                  this to Fantasy Book Groups is generally met with disbelief. He is very
                  highly thought of among fantasy readers.



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                • c91xgirl@aol.com
                  In a message dated 7/13/2006 8:12:46 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, werewolfv2@yahoo.com writes: oddly enough terry brooks is generaly not highly thought of
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jul 13, 2006
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                    In a message dated 7/13/2006 8:12:46 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                    werewolfv2@... writes:

                    oddly enough terry brooks is generaly not highly thought of among fantasy
                    readers..

                    I cant really remember the laat time somebody put him in their favorite list.



                    That's interesting, because a lot of the people in various fantasy forums or
                    groups I've spoken with absolutely loved his writing. Just about every 'must
                    read' fantasy list included at least one book by Brooks. Any request for good
                    fantasy reads was met with one of Terry Brooks' series. And he was probably
                    one of the most recommended authors on those various sites. That's the reason
                    I tried reading one of his books; there were just so very many people who
                    seemed to love his works that I figured there had to be something in the books
                    that made everyone love them so. In at least a couple of those groups, he
                    was considered very 'hardcore', and if you hadn't read Brooks, then you
                    *obviously* weren't a *real* fantasy lover.

                    There were even a couple groups who went so far as to say who was a *real*
                    fantasy author and who was not; which books were *real* fantasy, and which were
                    not. And if the book or author wasn't on their list of *real* fantasy, then
                    it absolutely could not be discussed on-list. Needless to say, I didn't stay
                    on any of those lists for very long...

                    -Charlotte-


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                  • Carla
                    That kind of makes me laugh a little. Real fantasy? How silly. And you can t love fantasy until you ve read the books THEY like? Bizarre. You re right, it
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jul 14, 2006
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                      That kind of makes me laugh a little. 'Real' fantasy? How silly. And you can't 'love' fantasy until you've read the books THEY like?

                      Bizarre. You're right, it doesn't seem seem particularly worth your time to stay on those lists. I read Terry Brooks once I believe, and might have found them a bit dry for my tastes, but to each his own of course.


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: c91xgirl@...
                      To: ShadowRealms@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:29 PM
                      Subject: Re: [ShadowRealms] OT differing opinions



                      In a message dated 7/13/2006 8:12:46 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                      werewolfv2@... writes:

                      oddly enough terry brooks is generaly not highly thought of among fantasy
                      readers..

                      I cant really remember the laat time somebody put him in their favorite list.

                      That's interesting, because a lot of the people in various fantasy forums or
                      groups I've spoken with absolutely loved his writing. Just about every 'must
                      read' fantasy list included at least one book by Brooks. Any request for good
                      fantasy reads was met with one of Terry Brooks' series. And he was probably
                      one of the most recommended authors on those various sites. That's the reason
                      I tried reading one of his books; there were just so very many people who
                      seemed to love his works that I figured there had to be something in the books
                      that made everyone love them so. In at least a couple of those groups, he
                      was considered very 'hardcore', and if you hadn't read Brooks, then you
                      *obviously* weren't a *real* fantasy lover.

                      There were even a couple groups who went so far as to say who was a *real*
                      fantasy author and who was not; which books were *real* fantasy, and which were
                      not. And if the book or author wasn't on their list of *real* fantasy, then
                      it absolutely could not be discussed on-list. Needless to say, I didn't stay
                      on any of those lists for very long...

                      -Charlotte-

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                    • Maggie Hults
                      I did not think Last Light was amoung his best, i have loved his other books tho-just finished rereading Song for Arbonne. Check out his other
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jul 14, 2006
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                        I did not think Last Light was amoung his best, i have loved his other books tho-just finished rereading Song for Arbonne. Check out his other book-brightweavings.com is his official web site i believe.
                        Maggie
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: c91xgirl@...
                        To: ShadowRealms@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 10:21 PM
                        Subject: Re: [ShadowRealms] OT differing opinions


                        <<I'm glad you haven't felt the need to leave us because of that reason or
                        any other opinion of a book/author. For example, I can't stand Guy Gavriel
                        Kay and can't understand why anyone reads his books..smile>>

                        I am too! And I'm not a huge fan of Guy Gavriel Kay myself. I tried reading
                        Last Light of the Sun, I believe it was, and never got into it or finished it.
                        I haven't tried any other books by Kay though; I may try reading another
                        book by him, just to see how it goes. Another author I never really got into was
                        Terry Brooks. I tried reading one of his books a long time ago, and just
                        couldn't get into it. Can't recall which book it was, though. Of course, telling
                        this to Fantasy Book Groups is generally met with disbelief. He is very
                        highly thought of among fantasy readers.

                        Charlotte

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                      • Andrea delosReyes
                        Too true Kandra. I find people actually looking in some weird tidbit I know about that I always say is based on or something and they go wild with it in a
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jul 14, 2006
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                          Too true Kandra. I find people actually looking in some weird tidbit I know
                          about that I always say is "based" on or something and they go wild with it
                          in a negative way. I'm not into author bashing myself. I detest Poppi Z.
                          Brite but I just ignore that thread when folks start talking about her.
                          Dunno why she bothers me but she does.

                          ~sighs~In my other list, they get completely out of hand most of the
                          time....awwwww well. :-P I must like the pain.

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                        • taekduu
                          Sorry, this is a very belated reply and delurk. I have been reading the discussions on certain authors and just couldn t help myself. I loved Terry Brooks,
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jul 18, 2006
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                            Sorry, this is a very belated reply and delurk. I have been reading
                            the discussions on certain authors and just couldn't help myself. I
                            loved Terry Brooks, when I was 10. After that I got over him and
                            wouldn't read his books if they were autographed and promised a map
                            to treasure. They got boring and clunky for me and well too
                            confusing.

                            There are plenty of authors that everyone will highly recommend that
                            I simply do not like (Guy Gavriel Kay among them), sometimes it is
                            the timing, I have been known to go back a few years later and
                            discover this is a newly beloved author. I like Terry Pratchett but
                            I had grown enough as a reader to like him after reading Small Gods,
                            and then I could appreciate the rest of the series better. Still
                            The Colour of Magic is not one of my favorites.

                            Charlotte it seems very interesting to me that you still like Anita
                            Blake. I can't read the books anymore. I believe what you say
                            about character driven stories, I think that is what the books until
                            just after Blue Moon were. I choose not to make judgements on what
                            the author is bringing from her personal life to her writing, but
                            there is sloppiness and poor editing, with lack fo respect for her
                            characters. I can tell a well written and well-plotted story, Anne,
                            Patricia Briggs, and Michelle Sagara are examples. I think
                            personally that there is something wrong when the author tells us
                            that she just finished the book and within three months it is out in
                            hardcover and on the shelves. I sometimes wonder if they actually
                            took the time to edit properly those famous anita book errors would
                            not exist. I wonder if she would have a tighter and better knit
                            story.

                            I like sex as much as the next person but there is only so much I
                            will tolerate if it does not advance the plot. I tried to accept
                            the ardeur but it was hard for me to beleive that this character who
                            had been portrayed in a certain manner, consistently with
                            appropriate growth over so many boosk suddenly lost her spine. That
                            was disappointing. So I walked away from Anita. I am still reading
                            the Merry Gentry books, but I swear, if we don't get out of the
                            Sithen in the next book, I will just leave that as a library request
                            instead of purchasing. I can't tell an author what to do but I can
                            sure vote with my pocketbook. Almost for sure though, I know she
                            say she has finsihed Merry's next book, which means that there is at
                            least 6 months between publication, perhaps the editor will come out
                            and play?

                            As for the discussion of real fantasy that is always in the mind of
                            the beholder. I think that one thing I noticed is that in recent
                            years authors are bringing diferent genres together and mixing them
                            up, some done well and some done poorly. I consider some of the
                            Harlequin Luna books just as much fantasy as I do the Sword of Truth
                            but in a different way because they include romance and their focus
                            is off just enough that I an recognize but still love them.

                            Thanks for starting great discussions.

                            Adenike (waves to Kandra and returns to her lurk)
                          • Kandra
                            *falls over in amazement* Adenike.....LTNT! I know you ve been very busy with school.
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jul 18, 2006
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                              <<Sorry, this is a very belated reply and delurk>>

                              *falls over in amazement*

                              Adenike.....LTNT! I know you've been very busy with school.

                              <<loved Terry Brooks, when I was 10. After that I got over him and
                              wouldn't read his books if they were autographed and promised a map
                              to treasure. <snip>

                              nod, sometimes we "outgrow" authors.

                              <<I simply do not like (Guy Gavriel Kay among them), sometimes it is
                              the timing, I have been known to go back a few years later and
                              discover this is a newly beloved author. I like Terry Pratchett but
                              I had grown enough as a reader to like him after reading Small Gods,
                              and then I could appreciate the rest of the series better. Still
                              The Colour of Magic is not one of my favorites.>>

                              I left this long quote intact <g> because it talks about two different
                              issues, really. I agree, and believe I also said the same thing about
                              GG Kay a couple weeks ago...sometimes one just doesn't like
                              a particular author, whether it be the style, the story or whatever.
                              The second issue is sometimes "growing" into a series. There are
                              some series I read now that I know I wouldn't have touched years
                              ago. Also, I think there's always books in a long series such as
                              PTerry's that one might not like as well as the others. His books
                              are so diverse though and have so many different characters/satire
                              that you (at least me) "forgives" the one here or there that I didn't
                              like as much. For example I'm not much of a Rincewind fan. I like
                              the luggage though...that's my favorite "character" in the Rincewind
                              books and the only reason I read the Rincewind books...heh.

                              I can't apply the same thing to LKH's Anita series though because
                              (again, IMHO only) they went downhill and stayed. Unlike Adenike
                              though...I couldn't begin to read the Merry Gentry books...that's
                              how disillusioned and cynical I felt towards LKH's books. Yes, I understand
                              it's a totally different story etc...but I'm the type of person (which
                              probably
                              isn't a good thing) that when an author consistently disappoints me,
                              I'm not inclined to give them a "second chance" with the advent of
                              another series by that author.

                              <<As for the discussion of real fantasy that is always in the mind of
                              the beholder. I think that one thing I noticed is that in recent
                              years authors are bringing diferent genres together and mixing them
                              up, some done well and some done poorly.>>

                              I agree..."historical fantasy", "contemporary fantasy" "urban fantasy",
                              "fanatsy w/ mystery or crime plots" (I'm thinking of Glen Cook's
                              Garret books here among others in regards to the "mystery fantasy").
                              I'd say around 4-5 years ago you wouldn't catch me reading ANY
                              urban or contemporary fantasy...but now I do.

                              <<Adenike (waves to Kandra and returns to her lurk)>>

                              <waving back> It's been too long! Hope to hear more from you :)


                              Kandra


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                            • Kandra
                              Andrea wrote:
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jul 18, 2006
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                                Andrea wrote:

                                <<about that I always say is "based" on or something and they go wild with
                                it
                                in a negative way. I'm not into author bashing myself. I detest Poppi Z.
                                Brite but I just ignore that thread when folks start talking about her.>>

                                True...and I don't particularly care for her books either, but I don't
                                detest her ;)

                                <<~sighs~In my other list, they get completely out of hand most of the
                                time....awwwww well. :-P I must like the pain.>>

                                Do you run the other list? If so...get yourself a ladle. If you don't...you
                                can
                                always email the list owner :)

                                K.
                              • c91xgirl@aol.com
                                In a message dated 7/18/2006 12:01:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, akitoye98@hotmail.com writes:
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jul 18, 2006
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                                  In a message dated 7/18/2006 12:01:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                                  akitoye98@... writes:

                                  <<I believe what you say about character driven stories, I think that is
                                  what the books until
                                  just after Blue Moon were. >>

                                  I find this amusing, because I actually found those books to be far more
                                  plot-driven than character-driven. It's almost the exact opposite for me. For
                                  me, the real in-depth characterization didn't really seem to come until *after*
                                  Blue Moon; not for Anita as much, obviously, because the books are
                                  first-person, but for everyone else. Pre-Blue Moon was more plot-driven for me,
                                  because there was just so much happening all at once. The vampire council, Anita
                                  being Lupa, Anita being Nimir-Ra, Richard and his failing ideals, the
                                  triumvirate, not to mention her police work... to me, anyway, I saw that as more plot
                                  than character. But I know of a lot more people who see it the exact
                                  opposite; the more recent books are seen as being less about the characters, and more
                                  about the triumvirate, the arduer, their powerbase, etc. A lot of people
                                  don't like that, for the most part, the only real characterization we're reading
                                  takes place in the bedroom. Or...wherever they. Well, you get the idea. :)

                                  I like sex as much as the next person but there is only so much I
                                  will tolerate if it does not advance the plot. I tried to accept
                                  the ardeur but it was hard for me to beleive that this character who
                                  had been portrayed in a certain manner, consistently with
                                  appropriate growth over so many boosk suddenly lost her spine.


                                  You raised a lot of interesting and valid points. I too, couldn't really
                                  accept the major changes to Anita's character. But, in my opinion, the changes
                                  to her character were, mostly, for the better. A lot of people seemed to turn
                                  away from the Anita books once the ardeur came about, and I find that
                                  perfectly understandable. I can't speak for anyone else (obviously) but I can say
                                  that, personally, I kind of like that Anita has the ardeur. I found pre-arduer
                                  Anita to be annoying. Beyond annoying, I found her to be just plain
                                  aggravating. She was too... I hate to say 'moral', but that's the only word that comes
                                  to mind. She had this idea in her mind that 'good girls' don't do this; 'good
                                  catholics' don't do that. She had to pick at every single little thing. Even
                                  though she knew God was okay with her, since she was able to pray and hold
                                  off the demon, among other examples, she still had to pick at every little
                                  thing she did. She pretty much drove me crazy, until she finally was forced to
                                  accept her life.

                                  I'll admit, she still does tend to pick at her life, but for me anyway, the
                                  arduer has given Anita a reason to lighten up. We still have to listen to her
                                  whine about sleeping with so many men due to the ardeur (though thankfully,
                                  there wasn't too much of that in Danse Macabre), but I agree with Jason; Anita
                                  should just get over herself and handle the ardeur, because it obviously is
                                  not going away, and it has actually brought some good into her life.

                                  I was one of those readers that, until she had sex with Jean-Claude, I was
                                  very exasperated with Anita. Me and my best friend kept saying, "What is she
                                  doing?? Why doesn't she (Anita) just get it over with and sleep with
                                  Jean-Claude already? Or Richard? Or Jason? What is LKH waiting for?" Because, to us, it
                                  was just obvious that was going to happen sooner or later, so why not get it
                                  over with??

                                  A lot of people left Anita because of the amounts of sex, but I almost left
                                  because of the lack of it. Not because all I wanted to read was sex, but
                                  because LKH had been building up to it for so many pages. There was too much sexu
                                  al tension between her and Richard and her and Jean-Claude, and nothing was
                                  getting resolved. Not to mention, in later books, Asher and Nathaniel. So, for
                                  me, and at least a few others, the ardeur was almost a blessing. Although, I
                                  would be far more happy if she would stop whining about the arduer 'forcing'
                                  her to sleep with people (I do agree with whoever it was that said Anita
                                  should either stop whining and do something about control, or shut up and get
                                  over it), at the very least, the arduer represents new opportunities and power
                                  for everyone.

                                  I think Anita has been using the arduer as an excuse...If she does
                                  something she personally doesn't agree with, it's not her fault or her responsibility
                                  because "The ardeur made me do it." For someone who seemed to be a
                                  relatively in control person, it seemed to me that Anita lied to herself and whined
                                  far more than was necessary. That is what almost made me leave-- not the arduer
                                  itself, or the sex itself, or the lack of plots outside the main characters,
                                  like the police work--but her unwillingness to accept the ardeur, herself,
                                  and her sexual actions and take responsibility for them.

                                  -Charlotte-


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                                • c91xgirl@aol.com
                                  In a message dated 7/18/2006 11:34:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lovestoread@hughes.net writes: I d say around 4-5 years ago you wouldn t catch me reading
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jul 18, 2006
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                                    In a message dated 7/18/2006 11:34:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                                    lovestoread@... writes:

                                    I'd say around 4-5 years ago you wouldn't catch me reading ANY
                                    urban or contemporary fantasy...but now I do.



                                    I laughed out loud when I read that, because I felt the same way. Actually,
                                    it was probably only a couple of months ago that I was browsing books at
                                    barnes and noble's website, and under fantasy books there's a section for urban or
                                    contemporary fantasy. And I just scoffed to myself, "Contemporary fantasy,
                                    why would I read that? I can't stand contemporary fantasy. Give me epic or
                                    historical fantasy, or something completely new, anyday."

                                    It was only later that I realized... I read contemporary fantasy. I *like*
                                    reading contemporary and urban fantasy. A lot of my favorite books/series
                                    happen to fall into that category. Besides Anita and Merry, there's C.E. Murphy's
                                    Urban Shaman, Sherrilyn Kenyon's Dark Hunter series, Kim Harrison's Rachel
                                    Morgan series...and the list went on. So, after feeling completely idiotic for
                                    a while, I realized that I pretty much stopped paying attention to genres and
                                    all they imply a long time ago. Now I just read books that sound
                                    interesting, or that have been recommended to me, or sometimes I read the 'blurbs' about
                                    a certain book. If I liked the book, I'll give the 'blurb-ers' books a try.
                                    Or if I see a book with a blurb from an author I like, I'll try the books. I
                                    actually believe that's how I started Lynn Flewelling's Tamir Trilogy; in the
                                    front of Bone Doll's Twin, there was a blurb from Anne, either for Bone
                                    Doll's Twin or a Nightrunner book. Well, as soon as I read that, I decided it was
                                    worth a try, and bought it (and loved it).

                                    -Charlotte-


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Nonny
                                    ... Kenyon s work is actually categorised as paranormal romance -- which these days is a close parallel to contemporary/urban fantasy. If that s your cuppa
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jul 19, 2006
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                                      On 7/19/06, c91xgirl@... <c91xgirl@...> wrote:
                                      > Besides Anita and Merry, there's C.E. Murphy's
                                      > Urban Shaman, Sherrilyn Kenyon's Dark Hunter series, Kim Harrison's Rachel
                                      > Morgan series...and the list went on.

                                      Kenyon's work is actually categorised as paranormal romance -- which
                                      these days is a close parallel to contemporary/urban fantasy.

                                      If that's your cuppa tea, though, I'd really recommend checking out J.
                                      R. Ward's Black Dagger Brotherhood novels. They're the first books
                                      since, well, the Black Jewels that I've turned into a total fangirl
                                      over. http://www.jrward.com ... I believe she has some excerpts
                                      posted. :)

                                      --
                                      Nonny
                                      aka Elisabeth Drake
                                      http://www.emdrake.com
                                    • RoseOfMalice@aol.com
                                      On the topic of Sherrilyn Kenyon, I have to have a fangirl moment and say that my newfound devotion to Kyrian of Thrace rivals that of religion. :) I would
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Jul 19, 2006
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                                        On the topic of Sherrilyn Kenyon, I have to have a fangirl moment and say that my newfound devotion to Kyrian of Thrace rivals that of religion. :) I would never have thought of the Dark Hunter series as being urban fantasy, but I suppose they are! Whaddya know? I would have agreed with you and Kandra and said "Poo!" on anything that came labelled as either contemporary or urban fantasy. I wonder if that's what Madeleine L'Engle's books would be shelved under if they weren't considered YA? I just finished An Acceptable Time, a book I haven't picked up since *middle* school, and I forgot how much I enjoyed her writing.

                                        I found the idea of outgrowing authors kind of interesting, because I don't think that's something I've ever done. A lot of my books I've passed on to younger cousins, but I've always stipulated that I wanted them back in good condition and some that I really treasured, I've never let out of my posession at all, such as Island of the Blue Dolphins, Bridge to Terabithia, King of the Wind, The Black Stallion, etc. I've graduated college now, but I will still go back when the spirit moves me and read books I read as a child and enjoy them just as much now as I did then. But the again, maybe outgrowing an author is different from outgrowing books?

                                        ~Ariel



                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: mistressnonny@...
                                        To: ShadowRealms@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 6:08 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [ShadowRealms] OT differing opinions




                                        >>Kenyon's work is actually categorised as paranormal romance -- which
                                        >>these days is a close parallel to contemporary/urban fantasy.

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                                      • c91xgirl@aol.com
                                        In a message dated 7/19/2006 7:05:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, RoseOfMalice@aol.com writes:
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Jul 19, 2006
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                                          In a message dated 7/19/2006 7:05:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                                          RoseOfMalice@... writes:

                                          <<I found the idea of outgrowing authors kind of interesting, because I
                                          don't think that's something I've ever done. A lot of my books I've passed on to
                                          younger cousins, but I've always stipulated that I wanted them back in good
                                          condition and some that I really treasured, I've never let out of my posession
                                          at all, such as Island of the Blue Dolphins, Bridge to Terabithia, King of
                                          the Wind, The Black Stallion, etc. I've graduated college now, but I will
                                          still go back when the spirit moves me and read books I read as a child and enjoy
                                          them just as much now as I did then. But the again, maybe outgrowing an
                                          author is different from outgrowing books?>>



                                          I think there are some books that, regardless of the book's age level or
                                          reading level or intended audience, one never outgrows. Island of the Blue
                                          Dolphins, for me anyway, is definitely one of those books. The Chronicles of
                                          Narnia are other books. And I'm sure that I could on. A lot of books, in my
                                          opinion, are either such classics or just so very well-written, or else speak to
                                          you so intimately, that you could no sooner outgrow those books than you could
                                          your own arm. And at the same time, some books speak to you during a
                                          particular time; for me, Phyllis Reynolds Naylor's Alice series was a good friend
                                          through my early teens. I loved the books, because, as Alice and I were the same
                                          relative age, the character and situations spoke to me, and I could relate.
                                          But now I'm older than Alice, and while I still enjoy reading the new books
                                          that come out (they are amusing, and good for a light, quick read), they don't
                                          really resonate in quite the same way they used to.

                                          As for outgrowing books differing from outgrowing authors... I believe it
                                          must be different. There are books I've outgrown by a particular author, but
                                          that doesn't mean I've outgrown all of that author's writings. Like I said in a
                                          previous post, I believe I have outgrown the Valdemar series, but I
                                          definitely have not outgrown Mercedes Lackey altogether. And sometimes, I like to go
                                          back to 'outgrown' authors or books, and give them another try, as I did with
                                          Mercedes Lackey. Sometimes, I've gone back to older books I thought I had
                                          outgrown, only to rediscover that same magic and wonder I felt when I first read
                                          them. It really must depend on the person, the author, the book, and the
                                          person's feelings about said author or book.

                                          -Charlotte-


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • rchristoph
                                          In a message dated 7/19/2006 7:05:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, RoseOfMalice@aol.com writes:
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Jul 19, 2006
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                                            In a message dated 7/19/2006 7:05:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                                            RoseOfMalice@... writes:

                                            <<I found the idea of outgrowing authors kind of interesting, because I
                                            don't think that's something I've ever done. A lot of my books I've passed
                                            on to
                                            younger cousins, but I've always stipulated that I wanted them back in
                                            good
                                            condition and some that I really treasured, I've never let out of my
                                            posession
                                            at all, such as Island of the Blue Dolphins, Bridge to Terabithia, King of
                                            the Wind, The Black Stallion, etc.





                                            I f you have ever read any of these books, and liked them, try reading
                                            other books from this link. It is the list of Newberry Award winners and
                                            runner ups.... As it is an award for YA type books, they are, as a whole,
                                            for youngesters, but I found that I had read many of them already. I then
                                            made an effort to read more of them. I have found may jewels. Madalene
                                            L'engle (sp sorry) has won several of the awards for the Wrinkle in Time
                                            series. Island of the Blue Dolphin was another winner, hence the
                                            connection...........



                                            Ronda

                                            http://www.ala.org/ala/alsc/awardsscholarships/literaryawds/newberymedal/n
                                            ewberymedal.htm


                                            .




                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • i_live_the_dreame
                                            My child s book (one of many, I fear, but this is the one that comes to mind easily) is the Rowan of Rin series, by Emily Rodda. We were first read Rowan of
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Jul 20, 2006
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                                              My 'child's book' (one of many, I fear, but this is the one that comes
                                              to mind easily) is the Rowan of Rin series, by Emily Rodda. We were
                                              first read Rowan of Rin, the first book, when I was in year four, and
                                              last year all five books were released in a hardcover omnibus. So I
                                              bought it and read it all the way home and squealed.

                                              I've always enjoyed Lois Lowry's stuff, as well, and Isobel Carmody
                                              (Is she considered a 'teenage' author or no?).

                                              Some authors it's possible to out-grow, though. It's certainly the
                                              best way to describe what happened to me and Piers Anthony.

                                              Morag
                                              =^..^=



                                              > I found the idea of outgrowing authors kind of interesting, because
                                              I don't think that's something I've ever done. A lot of my books I've
                                              passed on to younger cousins, but I've always stipulated that I wanted
                                              them back in good condition and some that I really treasured, I've
                                              never let out of my posession at all, such as Island of the Blue
                                              Dolphins, Bridge to Terabithia, King of the Wind, The Black Stallion,
                                              etc. I've graduated college now, but I will still go back when the
                                              spirit moves me and read books I read as a child and enjoy them just
                                              as much now as I did then. But the again, maybe outgrowing an author
                                              is different from outgrowing books?
                                              >
                                              > ~Ariel
                                            • tyflyygirl
                                              ... reading ... winners and ... whole, ... I then ... http://www.ala.org/ala/alsc/awardsscholarships/literaryawds/newberymed al/n ... Well thats good to know.
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Jul 20, 2006
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                                                --- In ShadowRealms@yahoogroups.com, "rchristoph"
                                                <rondachristoph@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > In a message dated 7/19/2006 7:05:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                                                > RoseOfMalice@... writes:
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > I f you have ever read any of these books, and liked them, try
                                                reading
                                                > other books from this link. It is the list of Newberry Award
                                                winners and
                                                > runner ups.... As it is an award for YA type books, they are, as a
                                                whole,
                                                > for youngesters, but I found that I had read many of them already.
                                                I then
                                                > made an effort to read more of them. I have found may jewels.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Ronda
                                                >
                                                >
                                                http://www.ala.org/ala/alsc/awardsscholarships/literaryawds/newberymed
                                                al/n
                                                > ewberymedal.htm
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >

                                                >

                                                Well thats good to know. I needed to find some of those books for
                                                when my cousins go to school. Good. Oh and on the subject of the
                                                summer reading list I just finished the second book in the LA Banks
                                                series. I like the whole Buffy feel to it but I hope this doesn't
                                                turn out like Buffy and Angel because then I would be upset. I also
                                                finished Lynn Veyhl(sp) book Private Demon. It was ok but I think I
                                                liked the first two better. i hope this series doesn't become boring.
                                                I also finished this thriller called Taken by Barbara Freethy. It was
                                                so good I can't wait for the sequal. The heroine never gave up I like
                                                that in a character. Also has anyone tried to pre-order Belladonna in
                                                a bookstore yet? I hope the people don't look at you like you're
                                                crazy like the guy did me. he kept repeating that it doesn't come out
                                                until March I was like duh. he must've thought I was crazy.(no just
                                                want my book on time)And quick question has anyone read Maggie
                                                Shayne's Prince of Twighlight. It came out a few months ago but
                                                nowhere in any bookstore can they find it. I ordered it but its been
                                                three weeks.
                                              • Carla
                                                She picked at some things before she had the aurduer and such, but come on. Now she throws a temper tantrum over the fact that her boyfriend gets her a nice
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Jul 24, 2006
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                                                  She picked at some things before she had the aurduer and such, but come on. Now she throws a temper tantrum over the fact that her boyfriend gets her a nice hotel room?


                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: c91xgirl@...
                                                  To: ShadowRealms@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 10:26 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [ShadowRealms] OT differing opinions



                                                  In a message dated 7/18/2006 12:01:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                                                  akitoye98@... writes:

                                                  <<I believe what you say about character driven stories, I think that is
                                                  what the books until
                                                  just after Blue Moon were. >>

                                                  I find this amusing, because I actually found those books to be far more
                                                  plot-driven than character-driven. It's almost the exact opposite for me. For
                                                  me, the real in-depth characterization didn't really seem to come until *after*
                                                  Blue Moon; not for Anita as much, obviously, because the books are
                                                  first-person, but for everyone else. Pre-Blue Moon was more plot-driven for me,
                                                  because there was just so much happening all at once. The vampire council, Anita
                                                  being Lupa, Anita being Nimir-Ra, Richard and his failing ideals, the
                                                  triumvirate, not to mention her police work... to me, anyway, I saw that as more plot
                                                  than character. But I know of a lot more people who see it the exact
                                                  opposite; the more recent books are seen as being less about the characters, and more
                                                  about the triumvirate, the arduer, their powerbase, etc. A lot of people
                                                  don't like that, for the most part, the only real characterization we're reading
                                                  takes place in the bedroom. Or...wherever they. Well, you get the idea. :)

                                                  I like sex as much as the next person but there is only so much I
                                                  will tolerate if it does not advance the plot. I tried to accept
                                                  the ardeur but it was hard for me to beleive that this character who
                                                  had been portrayed in a certain manner, consistently with
                                                  appropriate growth over so many boosk suddenly lost her spine.

                                                  You raised a lot of interesting and valid points. I too, couldn't really
                                                  accept the major changes to Anita's character. But, in my opinion, the changes
                                                  to her character were, mostly, for the better. A lot of people seemed to turn
                                                  away from the Anita books once the ardeur came about, and I find that
                                                  perfectly understandable. I can't speak for anyone else (obviously) but I can say
                                                  that, personally, I kind of like that Anita has the ardeur. I found pre-arduer
                                                  Anita to be annoying. Beyond annoying, I found her to be just plain
                                                  aggravating. She was too... I hate to say 'moral', but that's the only word that comes
                                                  to mind. She had this idea in her mind that 'good girls' don't do this; 'good
                                                  catholics' don't do that. She had to pick at every single little thing. Even
                                                  though she knew God was okay with her, since she was able to pray and hold
                                                  off the demon, among other examples, she still had to pick at every little
                                                  thing she did. She pretty much drove me crazy, until she finally was forced to
                                                  accept her life.

                                                  I'll admit, she still does tend to pick at her life, but for me anyway, the
                                                  arduer has given Anita a reason to lighten up. We still have to listen to her
                                                  whine about sleeping with so many men due to the ardeur (though thankfully,
                                                  there wasn't too much of that in Danse Macabre), but I agree with Jason; Anita
                                                  should just get over herself and handle the ardeur, because it obviously is
                                                  not going away, and it has actually brought some good into her life.

                                                  I was one of those readers that, until she had sex with Jean-Claude, I was
                                                  very exasperated with Anita. Me and my best friend kept saying, "What is she
                                                  doing?? Why doesn't she (Anita) just get it over with and sleep with
                                                  Jean-Claude already? Or Richard? Or Jason? What is LKH waiting for?" Because, to us, it
                                                  was just obvious that was going to happen sooner or later, so why not get it
                                                  over with??

                                                  A lot of people left Anita because of the amounts of sex, but I almost left
                                                  because of the lack of it. Not because all I wanted to read was sex, but
                                                  because LKH had been building up to it for so many pages. There was too much sexu
                                                  al tension between her and Richard and her and Jean-Claude, and nothing was
                                                  getting resolved. Not to mention, in later books, Asher and Nathaniel. So, for
                                                  me, and at least a few others, the ardeur was almost a blessing. Although, I
                                                  would be far more happy if she would stop whining about the arduer 'forcing'
                                                  her to sleep with people (I do agree with whoever it was that said Anita
                                                  should either stop whining and do something about control, or shut up and get
                                                  over it), at the very least, the arduer represents new opportunities and power
                                                  for everyone.

                                                  I think Anita has been using the arduer as an excuse...If she does
                                                  something she personally doesn't agree with, it's not her fault or her responsibility
                                                  because "The ardeur made me do it." For someone who seemed to be a
                                                  relatively in control person, it seemed to me that Anita lied to herself and whined
                                                  far more than was necessary. That is what almost made me leave-- not the arduer
                                                  itself, or the sex itself, or the lack of plots outside the main characters,
                                                  like the police work--but her unwillingness to accept the ardeur, herself,
                                                  and her sexual actions and take responsibility for them.

                                                  -Charlotte-

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                                                • c91xgirl@aol.com
                                                  In a message dated 7/24/2006 7:55:05 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, 5starfire@comcast.net writes:
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Jul 24, 2006
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                                                    In a message dated 7/24/2006 7:55:05 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                                                    5starfire@... writes:

                                                    <<She picked at some things before she had the aurduer and such, but come
                                                    on. Now she throws a temper tantrum over the fact that her boyfriend gets her a
                                                    nice hotel room?>>



                                                    God I don't think I've ever been more annoyed in my life. Reading that part
                                                    of Micah was almost painful. But I never said Anita had completely stopped
                                                    complaining. To quote myself (lol) "We still have to listen to her whine about
                                                    sleeping with so many men due to the ardeur...Although, I would be far more
                                                    happy if she would stop whining about the arduer ..."

                                                    So you are absolutely correct; she does still whine and complain and pick at
                                                    things. And that still drives me crazy, will probably drive me crazy for as
                                                    long as she continues to do it. And I can't exactly say it's for a better
                                                    reason, because it's not. It still makes no sense. But at least now she tends to
                                                    complain a little less about what 'good girls' and 'good catholics' do, and
                                                    she isn't harping about her morality all the time, either. But yes, she does
                                                    whine an awful lot, and does throw temper tantrums. Can't argue with that fact
                                                    at all.

                                                    Personally, I doubt she'll ever stop picking at things and complaining,
                                                    which to me is far more annoying than the ardeur, large cast of men, Richard's
                                                    emotions and everything else combined. Because even though Anita says over and
                                                    over that she'll try not to pick and whine and complain, and no matter how
                                                    much she says that she'll try and do better and be more grateful for her life...
                                                    she never actually makes too large of an effort. She'll try for a little
                                                    while, then just go right on back to it. And to me, that's just pointless; don't
                                                    bother saying it if you aren't going to deliver. Just my take though, of
                                                    course.

                                                    -Charlotte-


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