Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [ShadowRealms] Book writing progress

Expand Messages
  • Rinoa
    That;s cool! I may have to try that. Jennifer Anderson wrote:Anne: I post regularly to a website called http://fanstory.com It is a
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 29, 2004
      That;s cool! I may have to try that.

      Jennifer Anderson <mp_wife1978@...> wrote:Anne:

      I post regularly to a website called http://fanstory.com It is a terrific website dedicated to helping young authors like myself come around into becoming great authors and it is a great place to see if there is a interest in the books that we write.

      Would a publishing company look upon a book negatively if it is published first on a venue like this? I have to say that fanstory and all the writers and reviewers are a terrific asset and have helped me in so many ways. I have a very small fan base for my current novel and many of my readers treat it like a soap opera, but they are the reason that I keep writing it. (Working on Chapter 8 right now)

      Thoughts? Suggestions?

      Jen

      Kaeleer@... wrote:
      In a message dated 04-02-26 18:02:49 EST, Angela wrote:

      << I'm going to see if my husband minds me posting a little on my website.
      I'll let you know if it goes up. >>

      A website is a public venue. If you're serious about submitting it for
      publication, do *not* put up anything on your website. Publishers are interested in
      buying first rights. If you put your work up on a website, you've already
      given away what they may be willing to buy. Don't do this.

      If you want feedback from more than one or two test readers and feel putting
      it on the website is the easiest way, don't have any kind of a link to that
      page that can be accessed by anyone who comes to your site. That makes it an
      invitation-only page. In other words, only the people who are given the URL for
      that page will know it even exists and can access it.

      Just my 2 cents.

      Anne


      ShadowRealms, discussion of great fantasy!



      ---------------------------------
      Yahoo! Groups Links

      To visit your group on the web, go to:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ShadowRealms/

      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      ShadowRealms-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



      ---------------------------------
      Do you Yahoo!?
      Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      ShadowRealms, discussion of great fantasy!
      Yahoo! Groups Links







      "I believe in God, only I spell it Nature." Frank Lloyd Wright


      "I'll be waiting here for you, so if you come here, you'll find me....
      I promise."
      ~*Squall Leonhart FFVIII

      " Nin o Chithaeglir, lasto Beth daer: Rimmo nin Bruinen Dan in Ulaer!"





      ---------------------------------
      Do you Yahoo!?
      Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Sean Thompson
      Jen, the short answer is no, most publishers wouldn t mind it at all. First off, it lends a lot more credibility to a cover letter to say this novel was
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 1, 2004
        Jen, the short answer is no, most publishers wouldn't
        mind it at all. First off, it lends a lot more
        credibility to a cover letter to say "this novel was
        serialized at a medium sized fan reading site to high
        acclaim..." Second, it's never too early to get
        word-of-mouth started on your book, and posting
        snippets on fan sites would be a good start.

        sean

        --- ShadowRealms@yahoogroups.com wrote:
        I post regularly to a website called
        http://fanstory.com It is a terrific website
        dedicated to helping young authors like myself come
        around into becoming great authors and it is a great
        place to see if there is a interest in the books that
        we write.

        Would a publishing company look upon a book negatively
        if it is published first on a venue like this? I have
        to say that fanstory and all the writers and reviewers
        are a terrific asset and have helped me in so many
        ways. I have a very small fan base for my current
        novel and many of my readers treat it like a soap
        opera, but they are the reason that I keep writing it.
        (Working on Chapter 8 right now)

        Thoughts? Suggestions?

        Jen

        =====
        ---
        Sean K. Thompson
        Author
        Timecross'd: A Love Story Out of Time
        ISBN 0-9710796-5-X
        author@...
        www.timecrossd.com

        __________________________________
        Do you Yahoo!?
        Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail.
        http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
      • Kaeleer@aol.com
        In a message dated 2/29/2004 4:31:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Yes. I checked with two editors before I answered this, and they both said the same thing:
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 1, 2004
          In a message dated 2/29/2004 4:31:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
          mp_wife1978@... writes:

          > Would a publishing company look upon a book negatively if it is published
          > first on a venue like this?

          Yes. I checked with two editors before I answered this, and they both said
          the same thing: if you put a book up on a publicly accessible website, you have
          published it--i.e., you have given away first publication rights, which is
          what the publisher is interesting in buying, So they won't buy a book that's
          already been given exposure on a website. The editors were also quite frank that
          if you submit a piece of fiction that has been electronically published and
          they buy it and find out later... As one of them put it, if you lie to your
          editor, you no longer have an editor.

          So if this website provides you with good feedback as a training ground, go
          ahead and put your story up on it. But be aware that anything you put up on a
          website this way is no longer something you can put on the market.

          (This is the case for the big publishers and the editors who work with them.
          A small publisher or e-book publisher might view it differently.)


          Anne


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jennifer Anderson
          Thanks for the feedback, Anne. It doesn t seem fair, because what I am doing by working with this website is getting rid of typos and slow plot areas and
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 1, 2004
            Thanks for the feedback, Anne. It doesn't seem fair, because what I am doing by working with this website is getting rid of typos and slow plot areas and building a fan base. I'm getting my story ready to be in its final form to bring to a publisher. Why would any publisher look down on such a great website like this or a great practice like this? It is no different than handing out copies of the chapters to my friends and have them give me feedback. I only have a bigger circle of friends with this website. And I don't exactly know them all.

            Well, I guess it would never hurt to try the big companies anyway. Maybe by the time I actually get a book finished, they will have changed their minds about websites like this.

            Jen
            *Stupid useless writer's block. Won't let me write fantasy fiction. Have to write this teen soap opera.* I mean, I'm almost done with Chapter 8 of my novel. = )

            Kaeleer@... wrote:
            In a message dated 2/29/2004 4:31:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
            mp_wife1978@... writes:

            > Would a publishing company look upon a book negatively if it is published
            > first on a venue like this?

            Yes. I checked with two editors before I answered this, and they both said
            the same thing: if you put a book up on a publicly accessible website, you have
            published it--i.e., you have given away first publication rights, which is
            what the publisher is interesting in buying, So they won't buy a book that's
            already been given exposure on a website. The editors were also quite frank that
            if you submit a piece of fiction that has been electronically published and
            they buy it and find out later... As one of them put it, if you lie to your
            editor, you no longer have an editor.

            So if this website provides you with good feedback as a training ground, go
            ahead and put your story up on it. But be aware that anything you put up on a
            website this way is no longer something you can put on the market.

            (This is the case for the big publishers and the editors who work with them.
            A small publisher or e-book publisher might view it differently.)


            Anne


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            ShadowRealms, discussion of great fantasy!


            Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
            Click Here

            ---------------------------------
            Yahoo! Groups Links

            To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ShadowRealms/

            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            ShadowRealms-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



            ---------------------------------
            Do you Yahoo!?
            Yahoo! Search - Find what you�re looking for faster.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Rinoa
            Let s say that the story started out online and then made it s way into a book that you wanted to be published. Do you think they would hold that against you?
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 1, 2004
              Let's say that the story started out online and then made it's way into a book that you wanted to be published. Do you think they would hold that against you? Or of the characters and world was used in an RPG?

              Kaeleer@... wrote:In a message dated 2/29/2004 4:31:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
              mp_wife1978@... writes:

              > Would a publishing company look upon a book negatively if it is published
              > first on a venue like this?

              Yes. I checked with two editors before I answered this, and they both said
              the same thing: if you put a book up on a publicly accessible website, you have
              published it--i.e., you have given away first publication rights, which is
              what the publisher is interesting in buying, So they won't buy a book that's
              already been given exposure on a website. The editors were also quite frank that
              if you submit a piece of fiction that has been electronically published and
              they buy it and find out later... As one of them put it, if you lie to your
              editor, you no longer have an editor.

              So if this website provides you with good feedback as a training ground, go
              ahead and put your story up on it. But be aware that anything you put up on a
              website this way is no longer something you can put on the market.

              (This is the case for the big publishers and the editors who work with them.
              A small publisher or e-book publisher might view it differently.)


              Anne


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              ShadowRealms, discussion of great fantasy!
              Yahoo! Groups Links







              "I believe in God, only I spell it Nature." Frank Lloyd Wright


              "I'll be waiting here for you, so if you come here, you'll find me....
              I promise."
              ~*Squall Leonhart FFVIII

              " Nin o Chithaeglir, lasto Beth daer: Rimmo nin Bruinen Dan in Ulaer!"





              ---------------------------------
              Do you Yahoo!?
              Yahoo! Search - Find what you�re looking for faster.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Kaeleer@aol.com
              In a message dated 04-03-01 22:34:55 EST, Jennifer wrote:
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 2, 2004
                In a message dated 04-03-01 22:34:55 EST, Jennifer wrote:

                << Why would any publisher look down on such a great website like this or a
                great practice like this? It is no different than handing out copies of the
                chapters to my friends and have them give me feedback. >>

                If you handing out copies and had to run off those copies, which costs you
                paper and ink, or pay to have photocopies made, how many would you print out?
                Odds are, less than five.

                << I only have a bigger circle of friends with this website. And I don't
                exactly know them all. >>

                How many? If you make physical copies, you can tell an editor that five
                people read it and gave you feedback. How many people have read your work on the
                website? Not just the people who have commented, so you may know who they are,
                but the people who read it and didn't make contact. There's no way for you to
                know.

                Since there are established webzines out there--professional, paying
                markets--and the industry considers anything that goes up on those websites as
                published in terms of what rights have been bought, eligibility for award
                nominations, etc., they aren't going to view an open-access site as a larger circle of
                friends.

                Bottom line, publishing is a business. Five years from now, the industry may
                look at these kinds of websites differently. But from what I was told, that's
                not the case now. So think of it as a writing credential, like getting a story
                printed in a small press magazine that pays you with a copy of the issue
                you're in. Besides the pleasure of being in print, it does serve as a credential
                for the new story that hasn't been given public exposure.

                Anne
              • Adrienne
                Anne, I wanted to thank you for being so candid with us, your readers and some of us aspiring published authors, about what publishers want. I m sure you know
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 9, 2004
                  Anne,

                  I wanted to thank you for being so candid with us, your readers and some of
                  us aspiring published authors, about what publishers want. I'm sure you
                  know from before you were published that it seems like there's this barrier
                  to get published and those who are published or in the publishing world
                  seem to have a tight-lipped policy on discussing how you cross the barrier
                  from unpublished to published by a publisher (not by self). Again, thanks.

                  Adrienne
                • Kaeleer@aol.com
                  In a message dated 04-03-09 13:50:40 EST, Adrienne wrote:
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 9, 2004
                    In a message dated 04-03-09 13:50:40 EST, Adrienne wrote:

                    << I wanted to thank you for being so candid with us, your readers and some
                    of
                    us aspiring published authors, about what publishers want. >>

                    You're welcome.

                    << I'm sure you
                    know from before you were published that it seems like there's this barrier
                    to get published and those who are published or in the publishing world
                    seem to have a tight-lipped policy on discussing how you cross the barrier
                    from unpublished to published by a publisher (not by self). >>

                    Actually, I never found that to be the case. The published writers I talked
                    to when I was still striving to break the barrier of my first professional sale
                    were very candid about the realities of getting published. But the truth is
                    very hard for aspiring writers to hear. We all dream of having our first short
                    story snatched up by the best market available. We all dream of having our
                    first novel make the New York Times bestseller lists. Dreams are good. They keep
                    you going. But if you want to succeed, you also have to understand the reality
                    of the business.

                    Is there a barrier? Yes, there is. It's called quality. The very best story a
                    beginning writer can write can rarely compete with a story by someone who has
                    been writing steadily for 15 years simply because that person has been honing
                    his or her craft for 15 years. But the only way to acquire that skill is by
                    writing the very best story you can and sending it out for consideration--and
                    when it comes back, sending it out again. And again. And again while you write
                    the next story.

                    Here are some things I've heard, or was told. These things were said at
                    panels at conventions where the panelists were editors and/or professional writers.

                    1. You have to write about 30 stories, beginning to end, in order to learn
                    how to write a good story. This assumes you're striving to make each story
                    better than the one before.

                    2. From the day you truly make the decision to write with an eye to
                    publishing in the professional markets, you will invest 10 years in writing and
                    submitting and honing your skills before you break into the professional markets and
                    start getting published with any regularity.

                    Now, I'm sure everyone can think of examples of people who got published a
                    whole lot faster, just as, if you read any of the trade journals, there are
                    people who got a six-figure advance for their first novel. They are the
                    exceptions, not the rule. The point is, even as a hobby, writing to publish is a
                    long-term investment of your time and energy. You have to want it enough to make that
                    commitment. It make take years to get that first contract from a professional
                    market. But if that's what you want to do, then you keep writing and you keep
                    submitting until the day comes when the right story crosses the right
                    editor's desk at the right time for that first sale to happen.

                    And, yes, in case you're wondering, I was writing--and selling to small press
                    (i.e., amateur) markets--for 10 years before I broke the barrier and made my
                    first professional sale.

                    Anne
                  • Adrienne
                    ... Wow! I have had interaction with a handful of published writers and it always seems like they are holding back and don t want to share. Perhaps they are
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 18, 2004
                      I wrote:
                      ><< I'm sure you
                      > know from before you were published that it seems like there's this barrier
                      > to get published and those who are published or in the publishing world
                      > seem to have a tight-lipped policy on discussing how you cross the barrier
                      > from unpublished to published by a publisher (not by self). >>

                      Anne replied:

                      >Actually, I never found that to be the case.

                      Wow! I have had interaction with a handful of published writers and it
                      always seems like they are holding back and don't want to share. Perhaps
                      they are not being intentionally vague, but it sure feels like it when you
                      are trying to determine how best to get published.


                      >Is there a barrier? Yes, there is. It's called quality.

                      That assumes you found all the right channels for submitting. I don't know
                      why all of a sudden there are channels I have now, but in the past when I
                      explored even submitting a work, all the doors were closed. I know quite a
                      few aspiring authors who feel this same thing.


                      >Here are some things I've heard, or was told. These things were said at
                      >panels at conventions where the panelists were editors and/or professional
                      >writers.

                      Thank you for including these. They are very helpful. I have been writing
                      15 years (although I didn't write for about 5 of them), and my writing has
                      improved drastically over that time, and even in the past 6 months that
                      I've spent writing every day and honing the skills. I certainly have over
                      30 stories written, but some are 3 pages and my longest is 190 pages. Most
                      are shorter. I hope I don't have to write 30 novel length stories before I
                      get one good enough. As it is, my second novel that I'm currently working
                      on will take over a year to finish at the pace my life allows me to write.


                      >And, yes, in case you're wondering, I was writing--and selling to small press
                      >(i.e., amateur) markets--for 10 years before I broke the barrier and made my
                      >first professional sale.
                      >
                      >Anne
                      >

                      I don't mean to sound dense, but I am wondering specifically what you mean
                      by selling to small press (ie amateur) markets?

                      Again, I am so thankful for your candid responses. This is more than I
                      have gotten from any published author that I have been in contact with.

                      My last question is personal. You mentioned you have a day job. What is
                      it? Do your co-workers know you are the Anne Bishop that writes such
                      excellent stories?

                      Adrienne


                      Mother of Emilynn (4 1/2) and Jonah (3)
                      http://www.emilynn.net
                      http://www.timelike.net/themuse/

                      Longaberger Home Consultant
                      http://www.longaberger.com/adrienneroehrich
                      4yourhome@...

                      Commit random acts of literacy! Read & Release at
                      http://www.bookcrossing.com/friend/adrienne10
                      http://bookcrossing.com/referral/adrienne10

                      Epinions Reviewer
                      http://www.epinions.com/user-adrienne10

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Kaeleer@aol.com
                      In a message dated 04-03-18 19:41:46 EST, Adrienne wrote:
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 21, 2004
                        In a message dated 04-03-18 19:41:46 EST, Adrienne wrote:

                        << Wow! I have had interaction with a handful of published writers and it
                        always seems like they are holding back and don't want to share. Perhaps
                        they are not being intentionally vague, but it sure feels like it when you
                        are trying to determine how best to get published.>>

                        How best to get published. 1) Write the very best story you can. 2) Research
                        the markets that publish the kind of story you write. 3) Prep the story to
                        meet all the professional standards (i.e., margins, spacing, etc.). 4) Put the
                        story in the mail and wave bye-bye. 5) Hope the story doesn't come back with the
                        speed of a crazed boomerang.

                        See, the thing is, no one can tell you *how* to do those things because
                        learning how is part of learning the business of writing. You learn by trying and
                        doing. And through the process of trying and doing, the "how" begins to click.

                        << That assumes you found all the right channels for submitting. I don't
                        know
                        why all of a sudden there are channels I have now, but in the past when I
                        explored even submitting a work, all the doors were closed. >>

                        The shorthand for this is "the logjam." You write and write and write, and
                        work and work and work, and send out story after story...and nothing happens. At
                        least, nothing seems to be happening. But, in fact, you're actually preparing
                        yourself to not just hone the creative skills of this kind of work but to
                        become aware of the business side of it as well. And all that effort, all that
                        work piles up behind you and in you like a logjam. And then some little thing
                        makes it shift, loosens up a section, opens a door. There's no way to explain
                        it. It just happens.

                        <<I certainly have over
                        30 stories written, but some are 3 pages and my longest is 190 pages. Most
                        are shorter. I hope I don't have to write 30 novel length stories before I
                        get one good enough. >>

                        Novels and short stories are different animals in terms of construction, but
                        the lessons are the same.

                        << I don't mean to sound dense, but I am wondering specifically what you mean
                        by selling to small press (ie amateur) markets?>>

                        What divides professional, semiprofessional, and small press is, in most
                        cases, pay scale. In the fantasy/sf/horror genres, 3 cents or more per word is
                        considered professional pay scale. Also, the magazine has to come out not less
                        than twice a year (although maybe it's quarterly) and comes out on a regular
                        basis. Semipro is also very structured in when issues come out, but the pay scale
                        is 1 cent minimum. Small press pays less than 1 cent per word, tends to be
                        more sporadic about coming out, and tends to be a person who wants to put
                        together a magazine rather than a company that does it as a business.

                        <<You mentioned you have a day job. What is it? >>

                        *laugh* I'm a proofreader.

                        << Do your co-workers know you are the Anne Bishop that writes such
                        excellent stories?>>

                        Yes, they do. And some of them have even read the books. :)

                        Anne
                      • Kae'Tar
                        ... *laugh* I m a proofreader. ... A proof reader? Well I am sure that you are a much better one then
                        Message 11 of 16 , Mar 22, 2004
                          --- Kaeleer@... wrote:
                          > In a message dated 04-03-18 19:41:46 EST, Adrienne
                          > wrote:
                          <<You mentioned you have a day job. What is it? >>

                          *laugh* I'm a proofreader.
                          >
                          > Anne

                          A proof reader? Well I am sure that you are a much
                          better one then some of the those who have proofed a
                          number of the books I have picked up in the past.

                          *shakes her head at the memories*

                          There is one book that comes to mind for example,in
                          which I found a total of 57 errors contained in the
                          first 112 pages of a 207 page novel, and all I could
                          think was "someone was actually paid to proof read
                          this? Boy did that company get ripped off!" The errors
                          raged from simple spelling mistakes to misnaming of
                          characters,and even entire paragraphs inserted in the
                          middle of a sentence,which would then pick up right
                          where it left off as if the interuption never occured,
                          then the paragraph would repeat again later in the
                          proper place.

                          Though I am fully confident that you personally would
                          not make such a huge mistake while proofing a piece of
                          work, I just wonder at times what some of the proofers
                          out there bring to the table in the way of
                          qualifications.

                          Since you,Anne,are both a proof reader and a writer by
                          profession,I am sure that you expect that when your
                          publisher sends your manuscripts out to be proofed by
                          someone, that the person will do the job well, but I
                          just wonder if some authors or publishers just don't
                          bother to check the work of the readers? I can
                          understand a mistake or two getting past even the best
                          proofer out there,but so many in so short a space
                          seems to imply that there isn't (at least in some
                          companies) much double checking on something like
                          that. Just curious on your thoughts on the matter as
                          both an author and a proof reader.


                          __________________________________
                          Do you Yahoo!?
                          Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
                          http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.