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Do Singaporeans need "jungle training"?

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  • Sg_Review@yahoogroups.com
    From: Democracy is my Religion Subject: Do Singaporeans need jungle training ? Newsgroups: soc.culture.singapore Date: 2003-10-31 08:08:03 PST Are
    Message 1 of 1 , Oct 31, 2003
      From: Democracy is my Religion
      Subject: Do Singaporeans need "jungle training"?
      Newsgroups: soc.culture.singapore
      Date: 2003-10-31 08:08:03 PST

      Are Involuntary, Extreme and Torture activities still appropriate for
      NSF trainings today? (Ver131029)

      I think that such trainings are not-so-appropriate for NSFs in the
      current century and age of globalisation.

      Today is the age of technology, private communications, free thought,
      innovation, wondrous dreams, and individual rights and independence.
      Quality of life is increasing and so is our dependence on technology.
      The cost of living is rising too (in tandem) and much national effort
      is put into strengthening the economy through the services and export
      industries. Trust and diplomacy are important in the establishment of
      economic ties.

      The modern day society today- is kept stable through Democracy, a
      fairly new yet stable and quickly establishing form of modern day
      country governance.

      Democracy is now the preferred type of governance by a modern and
      informed society (e.g. Singapore) since it allows the populace and the
      government to exist in a constantly Harmonious state of symbiosis by
      operating upon the basis of a constitution 'developed by consensus':
      Through 'Country Rules' which are wisely written (with input by the
      majority) to define a widely accepted, harmonious and amicable set of
      rules by which individuals and the government should interact and

      And it is said that never in history has a truly democratic country
      waged war upon another. This is because the definition of a democracy
      is usually associated with a trusting and stable relationship between
      the ruling government and a populace (due to the consistent practise
      of conducting regular and fair elections). Thus elections (if well
      managed and uncorrupted) form an important feedback mechanism
      resulting in improved peace and harmony within a country.

      A democracy is in general associated with greater civil,
      communications, travel and Human rights liberties. (Even homosexuals
      are accepted and in some cases, even welcomed.)

      The abundance of internet and foreign sources of news and information
      within an established democracy will also open up the minds of the
      populace, such that only Wise, Fair, Hardworking and Unselfish
      politicians with principled and workable proposals will be elected.
      Candidates with personal agendas and ulterior motives and those who
      advocate unbelievable or unprincipled proposals in general do not get
      voted in by a 'wizened' electorate.

      An 'enlightened and wizened electorate' will thus vote far-sightedly
      for world Peace and Harmony resulting in a truely democratic country
      actually having a positive effect on Humanity. (During the appeal for
      funds to reconstruct Iraq, democratic USA was the largest donor, but
      the bankrupt Communist N.Korean regime asked Bush for increased
      financial assistance).

      The prevalence of modern technology has so much improved the lives of
      many through automation and efficiencies in food production; and with
      travel and the appreciation of foreign culture becoming such a popular
      hobby worldwide, it is no surprise that a majority of citizens of
      democratic countries have much developed and aversion to war and
      mindless violence and an interest in National security (e.g. USA).

      This is because of the ease of technology in making available picture
      and news reports about the destruction and suffering occuring in
      undeveloped,disease stricken and war torn countries e.g. from the
      African(HIV) and Middle East regions where many of the governments are
      either authoritarian/ warlord or anti-democracy regimes.

      It can thus be concluded that the citizens belonging to truely
      democratic countries (who enjoy greater government transparency and
      attention to detail) have a much better quality of life; this fact
      coupled with the democratic citizen's knowledge and aversion to war
      and destruction~ should be sufficient reason for confidence that
      conflict between the governments of adjacent democratic countries will
      not (and probably NEVER) amount to a declaration of war on the other.

      Thus with consistent economic progress and citizens electing amiable
      politicians to lead and guide them, the threat of war between
      democratic countries is much reduced. The new threat today however is
      in TERRORISM.

      Terrorism exists because of international modernisation and
      globalisation and the lack of concern by capitalistic societies for
      the poor and the minorities. Poverty and Hunger drive many to crime
      and misery; and no unexpected is the fact that due to lack of proper
      guidance that some in the category also become subsequently misguided
      by deviant religious/ superstitious personalities; resulting in these
      'poor' being manipulated to commit suicidal acts of terror for some
      uncertain reward.

      It is said that Singapore wants to conquer M'sia/ invade Johore
      somehow should hostilities worsen. It is also noted that Singapore is
      training it's NSF's to do dangerous recce work on foreign soil thus
      necessitating CST (combat survival training) for many NSF vocations
      where NSFs are trained and deployed by Order and not by choice.

      Did the government not read about the recent research concluding that
      'disenchantment' amongst workers to be the cause for Singapore to be
      loosing S$5b annually in productivity?

      Deploying NSFs in dangerous/ extreme vocations involuntarily is not
      only dangerous, it breeds hatred amongst to populace
      ('disenchantment') for the government in the long run resulting in
      migration, suspicion and lack of confidence for the ruling government
      as well as a fall in productivity!

      How should we spend our money now that GCT has admitted to SG budget
      concerns? On improving further our clumsy 'infiltrative army', or on
      promoting democracy, diplomacy, ASEAN stability and economy with our
      neighbors. How are we budgeting to compete with and evolving China
      which seems capable of soon surpassing EVERYBODY in the production

      2.5years spent on running up-&-down hills is a long time and worse,
      the aggravated injuries from 'illegal training', can Singapore really
      afford this 'waste' of human resource and additionally incurred costs
      resulting in more budget deficits? Like in any sport, an uninterested
      soldier has less motivation, is more unfocused and lacks control and
      responsibility for his own welfare and such a chracter will only
      suffer/ lead to more problems and injuries.

      One good way to solve the local (Singapore) terrorist threat would be
      through cooperation with our neighbours in their eradication so there
      is definitely a need for diplomacy.

      And what the terrorist are most afraid of is a cohesive society and a
      motivated people which will reduce the impact of such terrorists acts;
      individuals who have initiative and daring to 'blow the whistle' or
      take split-second-action should the need arise.
      One should never under-estimate the capabilities of terrorists now
      that they have proven their common willingness to die for their cause;
      thus improving on inland security will also improve our survivability
      in case of any terrorist attack.
      The gov should also rally and encourage Singaporeans to be more active
      in social support activities and volunterism and discard that
      "see-pretend never see" attitude to improve our disaster readiness and
      homeland security.

      And the Minister who suggested that Singapore should invade M'sia
      incase Mahathir cut the H2O supply should receive a hard knock on his
      head because sending troops and invasion is a sure sign of hostility
      and as I explain, a true exercise in total futility which will only
      set the terrorist threat more alive!
      -It is likely that no Singaporean will die from thirst in the short
      term provided that water rationing and industrial water use disruption
      is carried out. Singapore economy thrives upon Peace and Stability
      which surely will be shattered the moment such an invasion occurs.
      -It is the short sighted General who will advocate such invasion
      because there can be NO winners in such a war. The Vietnam war proved
      that rural community participation easily drove US soldiers Crazy by
      'obscuring the picture of the enemy'; US left the war in insolvency
      after conceding to an unrelenting 'enemy'~ (communist ideology which
      was more acceptable and prevalent at that time previously).
      -A long water pipe and water facility is an impossibility to secure
      and maintain as it is extremely susceptible to sabotage given its weak
      and very long structure and the difficulty of repair and coordination.
      And even with the availability of water, how smoothly would our water
      consuming, money earning wafer-fab plants function; how will Singapore
      exports be affected.
      -Will USA assist Singapore given its tight budget constraints and the
      costly Iraqi war.
      -The mess that war has generated in Iraq and local dissatisfaction
      with the new living conditions has only heightened the terrorist
      activity in Iraq. (Quote: Iraqi-Int red Cross bombed 27-10-03)

      Thus given that a physical war over water would be an effort in much
      futility, shouldn't Singapore spend and focus more on the intangible
      benefits of improving international understanding and economy through

      In line with the increased need for homeland security, more NSFs
      (girls included) should be trained as CivilDefense, medical, inland
      security/ transport safety duties. Very tough and mean forces (e.g.
      Commandos/ Special Ops forces) should only consists of willing
      enlistees and regulars who are more professional, focused and
      committed to their vocations.

      Rockets, Artillery, planes, some armored vehicles may still be
      deployed as deterrent forces to discourage any situation such
      Singapore might be taken advantage of- their use should only be in
      emergency or when all channels of arbitration and diplomacy have been
      totally exhausted.

      So I remain hopeful that our defense minister might endorse this more
      modern proposal and end the unnecessary sufferings that NSFs are
      undergoing; and plan for a more appropriate and focused defense force.

      Unvetted edition, reader must do personal research to confirm facts.


      From: Sg_Review@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Fri Oct 24, 2003 7:22 pm
      Subject: "Malingering" NS Man Denied of proper medical treatment dies.


      Editors word;
      More atrocities uncovered. NS Man accused of malingering, denied of proper
      medical treatment and finally dies.

      These are not isolated incidents. In addition to direct physical and
      psychological abuse, denial of proper medical treatment is also a constant
      recurring feature of the Singapore Army.

      Many SAF doctors merely "go through the motion" of dignosing and treating
      patients, and often the results are catastrophic. These paper shuffling
      bureucrats have long forgotten their professional oath as medical doctors and
      replaced it with a bureucratic creed which favours career advancement in the
      civil service.

      Straits Times
      25 Oct 2003
      Family sues NUH, 6 doctors
      By K.C. Vijayan

      THE family of a dead full-time national serviceman is suing six
      doctors and the National University Hospital (NUH), alleging that
      their negligence led to his dying two days after he was admitted for
      a pain in the right leg.

      The six include a consultant surgeon and an orthopaedic specialist
      who attended to 23-year-old Chua Ya Ta in June, 2001.

      The dead man's parents, carpenter Chua Seow Cheong and housewife Tan
      Hong Eng, both in their early 50s, and his sole surviving brother, Ya
      Lin, 21, are behind the suit, which was filed in the Subordinate
      Courts late last month.

      A spokesman for the family's lawyers, Oei and Charles, said that the
      firm is in the process of serving the suit.

      Corporal Chua, who was a tank driver in the army, saw the doctor at
      his camp on June 15, 2001, when his leg started hurting, and was
      advised to go to hospital.

      At NUH, he received treatment and was sent home.

      But less than three hours later, he returned to the hospital
      complaining of pain and a fever that came and went, and was admitted.

      In the next two days, despite suffering from the pain, he was accused
      by two of the doctors of malingering 'to avoid his army training'.

      In fact, the morning after he was admitted, his girlfriend, IT
      administrator Gladys Seow, also 23 then, was told by a nurse that the
      hospital wanted to discharge Cpl Chua and was handed a bill for the
      medical charges.

      He was not discharged as by then, he had difficulties standing
      without assistance.

      At about noon, he fainted in the hospital toilet while showering.

      There was also blood in his stool.

      His condition worsened and at about 3pm the day after, he was given
      oxygen because he had difficulty breathing.

      By this time, his fingers, toes and face had also turned slightly

      Distressed, his uncle, businessman Chua Kok Poon, who was visiting
      his nephew then, asked that he be transferred to another hospital.

      At about 5pm, he received a note from a doctor assuring him that Cpl
      Chua was in stable condition and not in 'clinical danger'.

      He was later transferred to the intensive care unit, where he died at
      11.10pm of an acute bacterial infection.

      The suit alleges that NUH doctors failed to take sufficient steps to
      diagnose the infection and prescribe early treatment.

      Contacted on Thursday, an NUH spokesman said that the hospital had
      referred the case to the coroner in 2001 and had cooperated fully in
      the investigation.

      She added that the hospital has always kept the lines of
      communication with the family open.

      'We also offered them grief counselling, as well as our fullest
      assistance whenever appropriate,' she said.



      Forum: the Sammyboy.com's Alfresco Coffee Shop Forum
      Subject: "Malingerer" Denied Treatment Dies
      From: (PEA_BRAIN)
      To: (BALLISTICS)
      DateTime: 24/10/2003 21:04:51

      NS guys or regulars have a hard time going to the doctors. once the
      doctor knows that u are still in the uniform group, they eye u with
      suspicion. they are more intent to find out whether u are malingering than to
      concentrate on trying to diagnose your problem.

      i'm sure many of us guys had unpleasant encounters with unit MOs & doctors,
      especially those from government hospitals or polyclinic. the questions they
      asked usually made u feel very low, much like a interrogation. most times, when
      i was still in uniform, i would rather not report sick if i can help
      it. the standard reply from MOs or polyclinic doctors is: "Don't
      worry, it's not life-threatening".

      are these fucking doctors trying to tell us not to see them unless it's 'life-
      threatening'? of course there are the real malingerers. but if the doctors are
      competent enough, they should concentrate on the patients' complain. treat
      every patient fairly with a neutral mind. sadly, most doctors don't do that.
      how to justify for the high medical costs in S'pore when half the doctors are



      From: GOD_SENT 01:28
      To: MAKAPA 4 of 10

      35645.4 in reply to 35645.1

      These are what us NS men got to go through whenever we seek medical attention
      from hospitals. I remember when my knees started hurting and I went to Alexandra
      Hospital for treatment.

      The first thing that those frigging excuses of orthopaedics did was to ask if I
      was an NS man. Feeling puzzled and thinking that this was normal, I told them
      that I was an NS man blah blah blah .....

      The doctors (3 of them altogether) looked at each other and did a cursory
      inspection, poking here and there. Then they said that the problem was stress
      related and I shouldn't worry too much.

      The problem persisted and I sook treatment from another orthopeadic specialist,
      this time round at Mt. Elizabeth. He did a through examination and told me that
      I had a flat left foot and scrolisis (crooked spine).

      He gave me a report to hand to my MO and a few days later, there came out in the
      RO, my name with the clause stating that I had been banned from reporting sick
      and getting treatment from outside doctors.

      Fucking fedup, I clarified the matter with the MO and he looked at me smugly,
      gave me an 'I am an officer, what can you do to me' look. I asked him if lets
      say I was ill and had a fever outside. Did this RO meant that I had to come back
      all the way to camp and receive treatment?

      That fucking MO (Medical Officer) said that he will review it on a case by case
      basis. Real mother fucker.
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