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Re: [SeattleRobotics] wobbling wheels on servos

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  • Greg Neumiller
    Here s a solution I came up with using servos and polycarbonate wheels. The pictures are of somewhat poor quality, but considering the source - a free color
    Message 1 of 25 , Oct 31, 2001
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      Here's a solution I came up with using servos and polycarbonate wheels.
      The pictures are of somewhat poor quality, but considering the source - a
      free color USB quickcam with a hastilly attached 3X "zoom" lens - I'm not
      complaining.

      http://communities.msn.com/RedundantRoboticsResources/files/Files/wheel2.jpg
      http://communities.msn.com/RedundantRoboticsResources/files/Files/wheel1.jpg

      I've just started describing how I did this with nothing but a cheap drill
      press, a hand rasp, sandpaper and polishing compound, but I'm finding that
      there are a lot more steps involved than I realized.

      I could send you a few of these "wheels" with pre-drilled center hole and
      tapped servo horn mounting holes. I typically use 1/4" center hole and 2-56
      treaded holes for the Servo horn mounting holes.
      The practical limit on radius of the wheel for my setup is about 3".
      I generally find that using two 1/8" thick wheels separated by a piece of
      some other material (cut slightly smaller in diameter) to space them apart
      so that you can get a vacuum cleaner belt (or big o-ring) to stay in place
      works pretty well.

      No charge if you think you can use them and care to share pics and a bio of
      the bot you eventually use 'em on.

      If anyone's interested in the nitty-gritty details, I'll try to find some
      time to write it up and add some better pictures.
      -Greg



      >From: "Charlie Heath" <cwh123@...>
      >To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
      >Subject: [SeattleRobotics] wobbling wheels on servos
      >Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 21:08:22 -0400
      >
      >Like a lot of hobby roboticists I have used modified r/c servos as
      >gearmotors to spin the robot's wheels. One problem I have with these
      >servos
      >is that the servo horn, to which the wheel is mounted, always wobbles; it
      >seems to be impossible to get the wheel to be perpendicular to the shaft.
      >This complicates adding homebrew shaft encoders when the encoder disk is on
      >the wheel; the distance between the disk and the reflective optoelectronics
      >is always varying and munging up the detection.
      >
      >So I have two questions for the group:
      >
      >1 -- Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to get the wheel to be, and
      >stay, perpendicular to the shaft?
      >
      >2 -- Has anyone tried modifying the servo shaft so that it accepts
      >something
      >other than a servo horn?
      >
      >I have been thinking of press fitting a short length of 1/4" O.D. brass
      >tubing (available at hobby stores) over the servo shaft and then using the
      >collar from an old knob to hold the wheel and encoder disk onto the shaft.
      >A brass washer soldered onto the inboard end of the tubing would act as a
      >flange against which to press the disk and wheel. Epoxy cement dribbled
      >down the inside of the outboard end of the tubing would secure it to the
      >servo shaft. Before epoxying, the servo could be spun under power to
      >verify
      >that the tubing doesn't wobble. I might need to trim down the servo shaft
      >a
      >bit to get the tubing on to it. To do this I think I could mount the
      >servo,
      >spin the shaft under power and then use a carving knife to trim it; sort of
      >like on a wood lathe.
      >
      >I thought about expoxying a (1/4-20) plastic bolt onto the servo shaft and
      >then just using a plastic nut to hold the disk and wheel in place. The
      >problem with this approach is that I would need access to a lathe to ensure
      >that the hole in the bolt's head and threaded part were concentric.
      >
      >Then again, maybe I am making this too complicated and should just move up
      >to real gearmotors.
      >
      >Charlie Heath
      >Ithaca, NY
      >
      >
      >
      >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >


      _________________________________________________________________
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    • dragnfyr
      I joined this list in hopes of learning some robotics, and I believe that I will, however I am way below most of you on the robotics scale it appears... Are
      Message 2 of 25 , Nov 1, 2001
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        I joined this list in hopes of learning some robotics, and I believe that
        I will, however I am way below most of you on the robotics scale it
        appears... Are there web sites and/or other groups like this where I can
        learn the basics of robotics? The mechanics I understand, but how to
        integrate that with the electronics and its coding have me at a loss.


        To the gentleman (or lady) who was trying to figure out how to mount a
        bearing, THAT I know the answer to assuming you have access to a drill press
        or drill. I can suggest two fairly easy ways of mounting a bearing if it has
        an inner and outer race. The first way is to simply sandwich the bearing
        between two pieces of metal bolted together around the flat sides of the
        bearing with a hole thru each side for the shaft and inner race clearance.
        The second is two use two plates and the frame of the bot, all three
        drilled for the bolts to hold them together, the outer and the frame also
        have the hole for the shaft and inner race, the center plate is the
        thickness of the bearing and has a hole the size of the bearing drilled in
        it so that the outer race fits inside it snuggly. Either way is doable by
        someone who understands the mechanics of a bearing, or can be machined for
        just the right appearance if you are also going for looks. Hope this was
        of some help

        Drag
      • dlc@verinet.com
        ... Well, look here at the various projects here for Stamps, OOPic, Botboard 2, BasicX and BASCOM/AVR coding for various sensors and motors. Some of it is
        Message 3 of 25 , Nov 1, 2001
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          > I joined this list in hopes of learning some robotics, and I believe that
          > I will, however I am way below most of you on the robotics scale it
          > appears... Are there web sites and/or other groups like this where I can
          > learn the basics of robotics? The mechanics I understand, but how to
          > integrate that with the electronics and its coding have me at a loss.

          Well, look here at the various projects here for Stamps, OOPic, Botboard 2,
          BasicX and BASCOM/AVR coding for various sensors and motors. Some of it is
          pretty basic, some more advanced and apparently some of it is pretty obscure...
          http://www.frii.com/~dlc/botlinks.htm I have source code on the robots and
          some various details on the sensor projects. Over time the various links and
          pages have grown somewhat organically, one day I'll have time to arrange it
          a bit better... Yeah right!

          have fun,
          DLC
          --
          -------------------------------------
          Dennis Clark dlc@...
          http://www.frii.com/~dlc/botlinks.htm
          -------------------------------------

          [snip]
          > Drag
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • dan michaels
          ... believe that I will, however I am way below most of you on the robotics scale it appears... Are there web sites and/or other groups like this where I
          Message 4 of 25 , Nov 1, 2001
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            --- In SeattleRobotics@y..., "dragnfyr" <dragnfyr@v...> wrote:
            > I joined this list in hopes of learning some robotics, and I
            believe that> I will, however I am way below most of you on the
            robotics scale it> appears... Are there web sites and/or other groups
            like this where I can> learn the basics of robotics? The mechanics I
            understand, but how to> integrate that with the electronics and its
            coding have me at a loss.
            ....................


            Mr Dragnfyr,

            If you look through the list of groups AND clubs on Yahoo, you might
            find one that deals with the issues you are most interested in:

            http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/dir/1600137078
            http://dir.clubs.yahoo.com/Science/Engineering/Mechanical/Robotics/

            Also, regards coding, if you are new to this, you might look at some
            of the platforms available that are more suitable to those starting
            out, such as the Basic Stamp and OOPic. A lot of the more experienced
            groups revolve around Motorola 68HC11/etc processors, but these may
            be a bit high on the learning gradient to start with. There are many
            groups that deal with specific processors:

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oopic
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/68332ABB


            hope this helps,
            - dan michaels
            www.oricomtech.com
            =================================
          • Campbell, Barrie (N-CDI Corp)
            You have a number of options. Get a processor evaluation board and a good book. The 11 is a pretty advanced chip, but with a good book and an intuitive
            Message 5 of 25 , Nov 1, 2001
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              You have a number of options.

              Get a processor evaluation board and a good book. The '11 is a pretty
              advanced chip,
              but with a good book and an intuitive language like sbasic, (I think 681x
              asm is pretty intuitive, but...)
              you could go far. Get the book first. Go to the local library or book store
              and read the book before
              you buy it, then get the processor to match. Don't buy an 11 because I said
              so, other processors
              like the PIC or Stamp have cheap boards with excellent references. (anyone
              have a good package to recommend?)

              Take a class at the local college/university. I got my start in a
              microprocessor course. Stay away from high-level
              languages like C, C++ or Java, as these courses tend to be application
              oriented and do not address hardware.
              The class I took was in the Engineering curriculum, not the CS side. CS
              offered a "Small Systems" course for
              Intel assembly. That class learned PC IO programming that could be used to
              control a robot from a PC.

              Start with RC controls. Many of the robots in SRS use hobby servos for
              movement and control. These can be
              used with a traditional RC receiver, or patched into a microcontroller. A
              working RC robot is simple to retrofit w/ a
              brain.

              Stick with your strengths. If you build a switch controlled robot, it is
              relatively simple to replace the switches
              with relays. You can then gradually introduce more advanced
              electronics/software as you learn. A reversing motor
              controller can be made w/ 2 SPDT relays or 2 SPDT switches, you dont get pwm
              control or PID, but it will move.
              There will be plenty of time to add such things as you are more comfortable.

              Books on electronic circuits, logic, or one of the many robot building books
              would be a good reference as well. Go
              to the bookstore, read a bunch of books, buy the one that you understand the
              most (the one that you say "I could do that!")
              and get to work.

              If you are going to take a course, post a link to the description here and
              we could tell you if it is what to expect. We could
              recommend books, kits or web pages to read. (plug your favorite
              site/board/book here)

              Of course, read the Encoder, and post questions here.

              Have Fun
              TE

              -----Original Message-----
              From: dragnfyr [mailto:dragnfyr@...]
              Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 3:16 AM
              To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [SeattleRobotics] way beyond a newbie....


              I joined this list in hopes of learning some robotics, and I believe that
              I will, however I am way below most of you on the robotics scale it
              appears... Are there web sites and/or other groups like this where I can
              learn the basics of robotics? The mechanics I understand, but how to
              integrate that with the electronics and its coding have me at a loss.


              To the gentleman (or lady) who was trying to figure out how to mount a
              bearing, THAT I know the answer to assuming you have access to a drill press
              or drill. I can suggest two fairly easy ways of mounting a bearing if it has
              an inner and outer race. The first way is to simply sandwich the bearing
              between two pieces of metal bolted together around the flat sides of the
              bearing with a hole thru each side for the shaft and inner race clearance.
              The second is two use two plates and the frame of the bot, all three
              drilled for the bolts to hold them together, the outer and the frame also
              have the hole for the shaft and inner race, the center plate is the
              thickness of the bearing and has a hole the size of the bearing drilled in
              it so that the outer race fits inside it snuggly. Either way is doable by
              someone who understands the mechanics of a bearing, or can be machined for
              just the right appearance if you are also going for looks. Hope this was
              of some help

              Drag


              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com



              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • Doug Heckaman
              Board-of-education is a good one. you can buy classes that teach you how to use the stamp all the way up to programming your robot called BOE-Bot ... From:
              Message 6 of 25 , Nov 1, 2001
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                Board-of-education is a good one. you can buy classes that teach you how to
                use the stamp all the way up to programming your robot called BOE-Bot
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Campbell, Barrie (N-CDI Corp) <barrie.campbell@...>
                To: 'dragnfyr' <dragnfyr@...>; <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 11:53 AM
                Subject: RE: [SeattleRobotics] way beyond a newbie....


                > You have a number of options.
                >
                > Get a processor evaluation board and a good book. The '11 is a pretty
                > advanced chip,
                > but with a good book and an intuitive language like sbasic, (I think 681x
                > asm is pretty intuitive, but...)
                > you could go far. Get the book first. Go to the local library or book
                store
                > and read the book before
                > you buy it, then get the processor to match. Don't buy an 11 because I
                said
                > so, other processors
                > like the PIC or Stamp have cheap boards with excellent references.
                (anyone
                > have a good package to recommend?)
                >
                > Take a class at the local college/university. I got my start in a
                > microprocessor course. Stay away from high-level
                > languages like C, C++ or Java, as these courses tend to be application
                > oriented and do not address hardware.
                > The class I took was in the Engineering curriculum, not the CS side. CS
                > offered a "Small Systems" course for
                > Intel assembly. That class learned PC IO programming that could be used
                to
                > control a robot from a PC.
                >
                > Start with RC controls. Many of the robots in SRS use hobby servos for
                > movement and control. These can be
                > used with a traditional RC receiver, or patched into a microcontroller. A
                > working RC robot is simple to retrofit w/ a
                > brain.
                >
                > Stick with your strengths. If you build a switch controlled robot, it is
                > relatively simple to replace the switches
                > with relays. You can then gradually introduce more advanced
                > electronics/software as you learn. A reversing motor
                > controller can be made w/ 2 SPDT relays or 2 SPDT switches, you dont get
                pwm
                > control or PID, but it will move.
                > There will be plenty of time to add such things as you are more
                comfortable.
                >
                > Books on electronic circuits, logic, or one of the many robot building
                books
                > would be a good reference as well. Go
                > to the bookstore, read a bunch of books, buy the one that you understand
                the
                > most (the one that you say "I could do that!")
                > and get to work.
                >
                > If you are going to take a course, post a link to the description here and
                > we could tell you if it is what to expect. We could
                > recommend books, kits or web pages to read. (plug your favorite
                > site/board/book here)
                >
                > Of course, read the Encoder, and post questions here.
                >
                > Have Fun
                > TE
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: dragnfyr [mailto:dragnfyr@...]
                > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 3:16 AM
                > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] way beyond a newbie....
                >
                >
                > I joined this list in hopes of learning some robotics, and I believe
                that
                > I will, however I am way below most of you on the robotics scale it
                > appears... Are there web sites and/or other groups like this where I can
                > learn the basics of robotics? The mechanics I understand, but how to
                > integrate that with the electronics and its coding have me at a loss.
                >
                >
                > To the gentleman (or lady) who was trying to figure out how to mount a
                > bearing, THAT I know the answer to assuming you have access to a drill
                press
                > or drill. I can suggest two fairly easy ways of mounting a bearing if it
                has
                > an inner and outer race. The first way is to simply sandwich the bearing
                > between two pieces of metal bolted together around the flat sides of the
                > bearing with a hole thru each side for the shaft and inner race clearance.
                > The second is two use two plates and the frame of the bot, all three
                > drilled for the bolts to hold them together, the outer and the frame also
                > have the hole for the shaft and inner race, the center plate is the
                > thickness of the bearing and has a hole the size of the bearing drilled in
                > it so that the outer race fits inside it snuggly. Either way is doable by
                > someone who understands the mechanics of a bearing, or can be machined for
                > just the right appearance if you are also going for looks. Hope this was
                > of some help
                >
                > Drag
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
              • herosformula@yahoo.com
                The first thing I did was read every article in the Encoder. I found that many of my newbie questions were either answered or given inks to an answer. - mark
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 1, 2001
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                  The first thing I did was read every article in the Encoder. I
                  found that many of my newbie questions were either answered or given
                  inks to an answer.
                  - mark

                  >
                  > Of course, read the Encoder, and post questions here.
                  >
                  > Have Fun
                  > TE
                  >
                • dlc@verinet.com
                  Great post! It brings up some ideas that I didn t initially think of for helpful resources. For beginners in electronics, these are great resources: Radio
                  Message 8 of 25 , Nov 1, 2001
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                    Great post! It brings up some ideas that I didn't initially think of for
                    helpful resources.

                    For beginners in electronics, these are great resources:
                    Radio Shack: Forrest Mimms' electronics series - great helpers.
                    Don Lancaster's "TTL Cookbook" is great for using and understanding
                    logic chips.

                    Beginners in robotics
                    Parallax Basic Stamp II and Scott Edwards "Programming and Customizing
                    the Basic Stamp Computer (2nd edition)", The Board of Education goes
                    well with this book and the Stamp II (IIP,IISX,...)

                    There is no gentler introduction to sensor/microprocessor interfacing
                    than the Stamps. When you graduate out to HC11/12, AVR or PIC chips you
                    can still find a use for that Stamp II!

                    Tons of fun out there - go for it!

                    DLC
                    --
                    --------------------------------------
                    Dennis Clark dlc@...
                    http://www.frii.com/~dlc/botlinks.htm
                    --------------------------------------


                    > You have a number of options.
                    >
                    > Get a processor evaluation board and a good book. The '11 is a pretty
                    > advanced chip,
                    > but with a good book and an intuitive language like sbasic, (I think 681x
                    > asm is pretty intuitive, but...)
                    > you could go far. Get the book first. Go to the local library or book store
                    > and read the book before
                    > you buy it, then get the processor to match. Don't buy an 11 because I said
                    > so, other processors
                    > like the PIC or Stamp have cheap boards with excellent references. (anyone
                    > have a good package to recommend?)
                    >
                    > Take a class at the local college/university. I got my start in a
                    > microprocessor course. Stay away from high-level
                    > languages like C, C++ or Java, as these courses tend to be application
                    > oriented and do not address hardware.
                    > The class I took was in the Engineering curriculum, not the CS side. CS
                    > offered a "Small Systems" course for
                    > Intel assembly. That class learned PC IO programming that could be used to
                    > control a robot from a PC.
                    >
                    > Start with RC controls. Many of the robots in SRS use hobby servos for
                    > movement and control. These can be
                    > used with a traditional RC receiver, or patched into a microcontroller. A
                    > working RC robot is simple to retrofit w/ a
                    > brain.
                    >
                    > Stick with your strengths. If you build a switch controlled robot, it is
                    > relatively simple to replace the switches
                    > with relays. You can then gradually introduce more advanced
                    > electronics/software as you learn. A reversing motor
                    > controller can be made w/ 2 SPDT relays or 2 SPDT switches, you dont get pwm
                    > control or PID, but it will move.
                    > There will be plenty of time to add such things as you are more comfortable.
                    >
                    > Books on electronic circuits, logic, or one of the many robot building books
                    > would be a good reference as well. Go
                    > to the bookstore, read a bunch of books, buy the one that you understand the
                    > most (the one that you say "I could do that!")
                    > and get to work.
                    >
                    > If you are going to take a course, post a link to the description here and
                    > we could tell you if it is what to expect. We could
                    > recommend books, kits or web pages to read. (plug your favorite
                    > site/board/book here)
                    >
                    > Of course, read the Encoder, and post questions here.
                    >
                    > Have Fun
                    > TE
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: dragnfyr [mailto:dragnfyr@...]
                    > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 3:16 AM
                    > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] way beyond a newbie....
                    >
                    >
                    > I joined this list in hopes of learning some robotics, and I believe that
                    > I will, however I am way below most of you on the robotics scale it
                    > appears... Are there web sites and/or other groups like this where I can
                    > learn the basics of robotics? The mechanics I understand, but how to
                    > integrate that with the electronics and its coding have me at a loss.
                    >
                    >
                    > To the gentleman (or lady) who was trying to figure out how to mount a
                    > bearing, THAT I know the answer to assuming you have access to a drill press
                    > or drill. I can suggest two fairly easy ways of mounting a bearing if it has
                    > an inner and outer race. The first way is to simply sandwich the bearing
                    > between two pieces of metal bolted together around the flat sides of the
                    > bearing with a hole thru each side for the shaft and inner race clearance.
                    > The second is two use two plates and the frame of the bot, all three
                    > drilled for the bolts to hold them together, the outer and the frame also
                    > have the hole for the shaft and inner race, the center plate is the
                    > thickness of the bearing and has a hole the size of the bearing drilled in
                    > it so that the outer race fits inside it snuggly. Either way is doable by
                    > someone who understands the mechanics of a bearing, or can be machined for
                    > just the right appearance if you are also going for looks. Hope this was
                    > of some help
                    >
                    > Drag
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                  • dragnfyr
                    After reading so many replies about how to drive wheels and apply power to them, I had a picture in my head of a bot with a box-like frame and solid mounted
                    Message 9 of 25 , Nov 2, 2001
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                      After reading so many replies about how to drive wheels and apply power to
                      them, I had a picture in my head of a bot with a box-like frame and solid
                      mounted wheels.... does that seem to be kind of the norm? And if so, how
                      well would putting power to the wheels by direct drive work? Direct drive
                      being a drive wheel pressed against the road wheel (something like a self
                      propelled lawnmower, but each wheel is individually powered) Was just a
                      notion that popped into my head....

                      Drag
                    • V T
                      Hello, I am an absolute beginner in Robotisc. My friend who is a school teacher invited me to take part in a project for his class. We are going to do it for
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jun 20, 2004
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                        Hello,

                        I am an absolute beginner in Robotisc.

                        My friend who is a school teacher invited me to take part
                        in a project for his class. We are going to do it for free,
                        for the school does not have funds for it. :-)

                        His idea is to develop a set of computer programs
                        to control one or several robots' moving on the floor of
                        a room. The robot(s) must be watched by a web cam
                        connected to the computer which processes data
                        and sends commands through a wireless channel
                        (so the robots can have neither sensors nor processors,
                        only servo motors and devices which control them).

                        He thinks that in that way we could create an initial
                        course on robotics with minimal expenses.
                        He thinks that toy cars etc. which have remote
                        controls can be used as such robots (they will
                        need additional work of course).

                        If something will come out of it, next year the
                        school's management may provide some financing.

                        I am a C/C++ programmer with experience in
                        some fields very far from robotics. And my current
                        job has nothing to do with it. But the idea interested
                        me, and I am ready to spend some time on it.

                        May be some of the lists members have worked on
                        something similar. What do you think of the idea ?
                        Can it be done ?
                        We would be very thankfull for any information and/or
                        advice.


                        Regards
                        Vlad
                      • raymond melton
                        ... This is an absolutely fascinating project! It encompasses robotics at nearly all the higher levels, and clearly finesses a lot of the purely mundane
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jun 20, 2004
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                          > The robot(s) must be watched by a web cam
                          > connected to the computer which processes data
                          > and sends commands through a wireless channel

                          This is an absolutely fascinating project! It
                          encompasses robotics at nearly all the higher levels,
                          and clearly finesses a lot of the purely mundane
                          stuff.
                          Please let us know how the project goes. It has
                          practical aplications, and is an attainable goal.

                          Regards, Ray.


                          P.S. On second thought, your project encompasses
                          robotics at ALL the highest levels.




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                        • Mr S
                          I think you want to google some links for robot soccer . That should help you find information about what I understand is your goal, such as the link below
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jun 20, 2004
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                            I think you want to google some links for 'robot
                            soccer'. That should help you find information about
                            what I understand is your goal, such as the link below

                            http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/%7Ebrettb/robocup/

                            Cheers

                            --- raymond melton <rtmelton@...> wrote:
                            > > The robot(s) must be watched by a web cam
                            > > connected to the computer which processes data
                            > > and sends commands through a wireless channel
                            >
                            > This is an absolutely fascinating project! It
                            > encompasses robotics at nearly all the higher
                            > levels,
                            > and clearly finesses a lot of the purely mundane
                            > stuff.
                            > Please let us know how the project goes. It has
                            > practical aplications, and is an attainable goal.
                            >
                            > Regards, Ray.
                            >
                            >
                            > P.S. On second thought, your project encompasses
                            > robotics at ALL the highest levels.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > __________________________________
                            > Do you Yahoo!?
                            > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
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                            >
                            >
                            > Visit the SRS Website at
                            > http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            > SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >




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                          • V T
                            ... From: raymond melton To: Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] A
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jun 21, 2004
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                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "raymond melton" <rtmelton@...>
                              To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 1:25 PM
                              Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] A Question


                              > > The robot(s) must be watched by a web cam
                              > > connected to the computer which processes data
                              > > and sends commands through a wireless channel
                              >
                              > This is an absolutely fascinating project! It
                              > encompasses robotics at nearly all the higher levels,
                              > and clearly finesses a lot of the purely mundane
                              > stuff.
                              > Please let us know how the project goes. It has
                              > practical aplications, and is an attainable goal.
                              >
                              > Regards, Ray.
                              >
                              >
                              > P.S. On second thought, your project encompasses
                              > robotics at ALL the highest levels.
                              >

                              As I have mentioned already, I am perfectly ignorant in
                              Robotics -- so I even do not know what "highest levels"
                              means. :-))

                              My friend teaches physics and just now he works to acquire
                              better knowledge of electronics.

                              We realize that there will be many difficulties and do not
                              formulate too ambitious goals. We would be content if we
                              would be able to make a toy car move from a corner
                              of the room to the opposite one as the first stage.

                              At the same time the project includes a part which we
                              call "virtual robots" -- a set of small s/w applications
                              illustrating principles of mechanics and electronics.

                              An example: a "robot" car driver. After being taught
                              about velocity and acceleration, inertia and friction,
                              a student is proposed to write a piece of code
                              which would check (imaginary) sensors and
                              control the car, taking into the calculations the
                              road's cirvature etc.
                              Or propose the problem to two or more students --
                              and see whose car would come first.

                              The main idea is that _I_ must do all the work for
                              that program beforehand -- interface, graphics, Win32 API calls--
                              and leave to the student only that part of the code
                              which relates to the car.

                              Regards
                              Vladislav
                            • V T
                              Thanks for the link. It all is very interesting, but too complicated for us just now. We have discussed already multy--threaded applications albe to control a
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jun 21, 2004
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                                Thanks for the link.
                                It all is very interesting, but too complicated for us just now.
                                We have discussed already multy--threaded applications
                                albe to control a team of robots -- but that more relates
                                to our "virtual robots" part of the project.

                                As for "real" robots we want to begin with something
                                much more simple.

                                Regards
                                Vladislav






                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Mr S" <szinn_the1@...>
                                To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 3:05 PM
                                Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] A Question


                                > I think you want to google some links for 'robot
                                > soccer'. That should help you find information about
                                > what I understand is your goal, such as the link below
                                >
                                > http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/%7Ebrettb/robocup/
                                >
                                > Cheers
                                >
                                > --- raymond melton <rtmelton@...> wrote:
                                > > > The robot(s) must be watched by a web cam
                                > > > connected to the computer which processes data
                                > > > and sends commands through a wireless channel
                                > >
                                > > This is an absolutely fascinating project! It
                                > > encompasses robotics at nearly all the higher
                                > > levels,
                                > > and clearly finesses a lot of the purely mundane
                                > > stuff.
                                > > Please let us know how the project goes. It has
                                > > practical aplications, and is an attainable goal.
                                > >
                                > > Regards, Ray.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > P.S. On second thought, your project encompasses
                                > > robotics at ALL the highest levels.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > __________________________________
                                > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                > > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
                                > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Visit the SRS Website at
                                > > http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > __________________________________
                                > Do you Yahoo!?
                                > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
                                > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                >
                                >
                                > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • raymond melton
                                Vlad, Would you consider keeping us posted with regards to the progress on your current project? Your webcam-controlled robot(s) venture is a highly
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jun 21, 2004
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                                  Vlad,

                                  Would you consider keeping us posted with regards to
                                  the progress on your current project? Your
                                  webcam-controlled robot(s) venture is a highly
                                  imaginative, albeit a potentially challenging,
                                  project. It's a step or two above what I'm used to
                                  hearing about. Cheers to you for taking on the idea.


                                  I would actually like to get involved with such a
                                  project, though I'm no roboticist. In fact, I'm a
                                  mathematician. But robotics is what got me into math
                                  in the first place, and I know my coding. And have
                                  done some considerable research in the field of
                                  robotics.

                                  Take care.
                                  Regards, Ray.

                                  P.S. Feel free to shoot me an eletter if you don't
                                  feel comfortable posting.


                                  --- V T <vstim@...> wrote:
                                  > Hello,
                                  >
                                  > I am an absolute beginner in Robotics.
                                  >
                                  > My friend who is a school teacher invited me to take
                                  > part
                                  > in a project for his class. We are going to do it
                                  > for free,
                                  > for the school does not have funds for it. :-)
                                  >
                                  > His idea is to develop a set of computer programs
                                  > to control one or several robots' moving on the
                                  > floor of
                                  > a room. The robot(s) must be watched by a web cam
                                  > connected to the computer which processes data
                                  > and sends commands through a wireless channel
                                  > (so the robots can have neither sensors nor
                                  > processors,
                                  > only servo motors and devices which control them).
                                  >
                                  > He thinks that in that way we could create an
                                  > initial
                                  > course on robotics with minimal expenses.
                                  > He thinks that toy cars etc. which have remote
                                  > controls can be used as such robots (they will
                                  > need additional work of course).
                                  >
                                  > If something will come out of it, next year the
                                  > school's management may provide some financing.
                                  >
                                  > I am a C/C++ programmer with experience in
                                  > some fields very far from robotics. And my current
                                  > job has nothing to do with it. But the idea
                                  > interested
                                  > me, and I am ready to spend some time on it.
                                  >
                                  > May be some of the lists members have worked on
                                  > something similar. What do you think of the idea ?
                                  > Can it be done ?
                                  > We would be very thankfull for any information
                                  > and/or
                                  > advice.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Regards
                                  > Vlad
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Visit the SRS Website at
                                  > http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >




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                                • raymond melton
                                  I feel strongly that if I were to point out what the lower (lowest) levels of robotics were, I may no longer be welcomed to post here. ...
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jun 21, 2004
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                                    I feel strongly that if I were to point out what the
                                    lower (lowest) levels of robotics were, I may no
                                    longer be welcomed to post here.

                                    > As I have mentioned already, I am perfectly ignorant
                                    > in
                                    > Robotics -- so I even do not know what "highest
                                    > levels"
                                    > means. :-))




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                                  • Kenneth Maxon
                                    You ve noticed that too? :) -Kenneth (Unit 3 s in trouble and it s scared out of its wits) -Geddy Lee ... From: raymond melton To:
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jun 21, 2004
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                                      You've noticed that too? :)

                                      -Kenneth
                                      (Unit 3's in trouble and it's scared out of its wits) -Geddy Lee
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "raymond melton" <rtmelton@...>
                                      To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 7:12 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] A Question


                                      > I feel strongly that if I were to point out what the
                                      > lower (lowest) levels of robotics were, I may no
                                      > longer be welcomed to post here.
                                      >
                                      > > As I have mentioned already, I am perfectly ignorant
                                      > > in
                                      > > Robotics -- so I even do not know what "highest
                                      > > levels"
                                      > > means. :-))
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > __________________________________
                                      > Do you Yahoo!?
                                      > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
                                      > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • raymond melton
                                      Well, Monday Night Chat is coming up in about an hour. I actually look forward to the chat channel on Mondays. Some interesting conversation there, and it s a
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jun 21, 2004
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                                        Well, Monday Night Chat is coming up in about an hour.
                                        I actually look forward to the chat channel on
                                        Mondays. Some interesting conversation there, and
                                        it's a quaint way of getting a feel for how other
                                        members of the SRS stand on certain topics. Perhaps
                                        I'll see you there.

                                        Regards, Ray

                                        --- Kenneth Maxon <kmaxon@...> wrote:
                                        > You've noticed that too? :)
                                        >
                                        > -Kenneth
                                        > (Unit 3's in trouble and it's scared out of
                                        > its wits) -Geddy Lee
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: "raymond melton" <rtmelton@...>
                                        > To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                                        > Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 7:12 AM
                                        > Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] A Question
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > I feel strongly that if I were to point out what
                                        > the
                                        > > lower (lowest) levels of robotics were, I may no
                                        > > longer be welcomed to post here.
                                        > >
                                        > > > As I have mentioned already, I am perfectly
                                        > ignorant
                                        > > > in
                                        > > > Robotics -- so I even do not know what "highest
                                        > > > levels"
                                        > > > means. :-))




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                                      • Kevin Ross
                                        Post away.
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jun 22, 2004
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                                          Post away.

                                          >-----Original Message-----
                                          >From: raymond melton [mailto:rtmelton@...]
                                          >Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 6:13 AM
                                          >To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
                                          >Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] A Question
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >I feel strongly that if I were to point out what the
                                          >lower (lowest) levels of robotics were, I may no
                                          >longer be welcomed to post here.
                                          >
                                          >> As I have mentioned already, I am perfectly ignorant
                                          >> in
                                          >> Robotics -- so I even do not know what "highest
                                          >> levels"
                                          >> means. :-))
                                        • Larry Barello
                                          Ray, Kenneth: It is really frustrating to see email like below. Please, explain to me what you mean by the messages, below. If *anyone* has an issue with the
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jun 22, 2004
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                                            Ray, Kenneth: It is really frustrating to see email like below. Please,
                                            explain to me what you mean by the messages, below.

                                            If *anyone* has an issue with the mailing list and how it is run, please,
                                            drop me a note and let me know. I will be glad to tally things up and
                                            report back. If some common themes arise we can have a discussion on how to
                                            change things. I am a board member and President of the SRS parent
                                            corporation and a list moderator; I am very interested in this subject.

                                            Cheers!


                                            ----
                                            Larry Barello
                                            http://www.barello.net

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Kenneth Maxon

                                            You've noticed that too? :)

                                            -Kenneth
                                            (Unit 3's in trouble and it's scared out of its wits) -Geddy Lee
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: "raymond melton"

                                            > I feel strongly that if I were to point out what the
                                            > lower (lowest) levels of robotics were, I may no
                                            > longer be welcomed to post here.
                                            >
                                          • RoboVac
                                            Vladislav You might want to look more carefully at the RoboCup websites. Each year after the contest is over all the teams must post their code for everyone
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jun 26, 2004
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                                              Vladislav

                                              You might want to look more carefully at the RoboCup websites. Each year
                                              after the contest is over all the teams must post their code for everyone to
                                              see. This is to make it easier for new people to get started. Sort of open
                                              source code, but still is competitive.

                                              They have one division that uses an over head camera like you are talking
                                              about. They also have a division that uses simulated robots instead of real
                                              robots.

                                              William Crolley

                                              >
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: "raymond melton" <rtmelton@...>
                                              > To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 1:25 PM
                                              > Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] A Question
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > > > The robot(s) must be watched by a web cam
                                              > > > connected to the computer which processes data
                                              > > > and sends commands through a wireless channel
                                              > >
                                              > > This is an absolutely fascinating project! It
                                              > > encompasses robotics at nearly all the higher levels,
                                              > > and clearly finesses a lot of the purely mundane
                                              > > stuff.
                                              > > Please let us know how the project goes. It has
                                              > > practical aplications, and is an attainable goal.
                                              > >
                                              > > Regards, Ray.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > P.S. On second thought, your project encompasses
                                              > > robotics at ALL the highest levels.
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              > As I have mentioned already, I am perfectly ignorant in
                                              > Robotics -- so I even do not know what "highest levels"
                                              > means. :-))
                                              >
                                              > My friend teaches physics and just now he works to acquire
                                              > better knowledge of electronics.
                                              >
                                              > We realize that there will be many difficulties and do not
                                              > formulate too ambitious goals. We would be content if we
                                              > would be able to make a toy car move from a corner
                                              > of the room to the opposite one as the first stage.
                                              >
                                              > At the same time the project includes a part which we
                                              > call "virtual robots" -- a set of small s/w applications
                                              > illustrating principles of mechanics and electronics.
                                              >
                                              > An example: a "robot" car driver. After being taught
                                              > about velocity and acceleration, inertia and friction,
                                              > a student is proposed to write a piece of code
                                              > which would check (imaginary) sensors and
                                              > control the car, taking into the calculations the
                                              > road's cirvature etc.
                                              > Or propose the problem to two or more students --
                                              > and see whose car would come first.
                                              >
                                              > The main idea is that _I_ must do all the work for
                                              > that program beforehand -- interface, graphics, Win32 API calls--
                                              > and leave to the student only that part of the code
                                              > which relates to the car.
                                              >
                                              > Regards
                                              > Vladislav
                                              >
                                              >
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