Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [SeattleRobotics] 60 Questions For The Christians

Expand Messages
  • Tony Brenke
    I am sure there is a place you can talk about this and try to change peoples minds about their religon. I am also sure this is not the place. this is the
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 2, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      I am sure there is a place you can talk about this and try to change
      peoples minds about their religon.
      I am also sure this is not the place.

      this is the SeattleRobotics place.

      Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior....



      =====
      Tony Brenke
      North Tacoma, WA

      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
      http://im.yahoo.com
    • Dennis Clark
      Fred, The trolls are out early this year... DLC ... -- ... * Dennis Clark Mechanical Engineering Behavior Based Robotics * * dlc@verinet.com
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 3, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        Fred,

        The trolls are out early this year...

        DLC

        "Fred H. Ennenga" wrote:
        >
        > Trinity is a robotics firefighting competition. Does that clear it up for
        > you?
        >
        > *****************
        > Fred Ennenga
        > *****************
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

        --
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------
        * Dennis Clark Mechanical Engineering Behavior Based Robotics *
        * dlc@... www.verinet.com/~dlc Colorado State University *
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------
      • wizard@sub-link.net
        Hello, I don t know if this person sent the wrong message to the wrong egroup board but what s up.... This is a robotics discussion group not religious. If
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 4, 2001
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello,

          I don't know if this person sent the wrong message to the wrong
          egroup board but what's up.... This is a robotics discussion group
          not religious. If anything is off subject this is.... I take offense at the
          fact that I go to check my robotics email and get religious
          preaching from someone.... In case no ever told you.... robotics is
          a science, there is NO PLACE for religion in SCIENCE.

          Kevin I.


          >
          > 60 Questions For The Christians
          >
          >
          > TRINITY
          > According to most Christians, Jesus was God incarnate, full man and
          > full God. Can the finite and the infinite be one? "To be full" God
          > means freedom from finite forms and from helplessness, and to
          > be "full man" means the absence of divinity.
          > 1.To be son is to be less than divine and to be divine is to be no
          > one's son. How could Jesus have the attributes of son ship and
          > divinity altogether?
          > 2.Christians assert that Jesus claimed to be God when they quote him in
          > John 14:9: "He that has seen me has seen the Father". Didn't Jesus clearly
          > say that people have never seen God, as it says in John 5:37: "And the
          > father himself which Has sent me, has borne witness of me. You have
          > NEITHER HEARD HIS VOICE AT ANY TIME NOR SEEN HIS SHAPE"? 3.Christians say
          > that Jesus was God because he was called Son of God, Son of Man, Messiah,
          > and "savior". Ezekiel was addressed in the Bible as Son of Man. Jesus
          > spoke of "the peace makers" as Sons of God. Any person who followed the
          > Will and Plan of God was called SON OF GOD in the Jewish tradition and in
          > their language (Genesis 6:2,4; Exodus 4:22; Psalm 2:7; Romans 8:14).
          > "Messiah" which in Hebrew means "God's anointed" and not "Christ", and
          > "Cyrus" the person is called "Messiah" or "the anointed". As for "savior",
          > in II KINGS 13:5, other individuals were given that title too without
          > being gods. So where is the proof in these terms that Jesus was God when
          > the word son is not exclusively used for him alone? 4.Christians claim
          > that Jesus acknowledged that he and God were one in the sense of nature
          > when he says in John 10:30 "I and my father are one". Later on in John
          > 17:21-23, Jesus refers to his followers and himself and God as one in five
          > places. So why did they give the previous "one" a different meaning from
          > the other five "ones? 5.Is God three-in-one and one in three
          > simultaneously or one at a time? 6.If God is one and three simultaneously,
          > then none of the three could be the complete God. Granting that such was
          > the case, then when Jesus was on earth, he wasn't a complete God, nor was
          > the "father in Heaven" a whole God. Doesn't that contradict what Jesus
          > always said about His God and our God in heaven, his Lord and our Lord?
          > Does that also mean that there was no complete god then, between the
          > claimed crucifixion and the claimed resurrection? 7.If God is one and
          > three at a time, then who was the God in heaven when Jesus was on earth?
          > Wouldn't this contradict his many references to a God in Heaven that sent
          > him? 8.If God is three and one at the same time, who was the God in Heaven
          > within three days between the claimed crucifixion and the claimed
          > resurrect ion? 9.Christians say that: "The Father (F) is God, the Son (S)
          > is God, and the Holy Ghost (H) is God, but the Father is not the Son, the
          > Son is not the Holy Ghost, and the Holy Ghost is not the Father". In
          > simple arithmetic and terms therefore, if F = G, S = G, and H = G, then it
          > follows that F = S = H, while the second part of the statement suggests
          > that F ¹ S ¹ H (meaning, "not equal"). Isn't that a contradiction to the
          > Christian dogma of Trinity in itself? 10.If Jesus was God, why did he tell
          > the man who called him "good master" not to call him "good" because
          > accordingly, there is none good but his God in Heaven alone? 11.Why do
          > Christians say that God is three-in-one and one in three when Jesus says
          > in Mark 12:29: "The Lord our God is one Lord" in as many places as yet in
          > the Bible? 12.If belief in the Trinity was such a necessary condition for
          > being a Christian, why didn't Jesus teach and emphasize it to the
          > Christians during his time? How were those followers of Jesus considered
          > Christians without ever hearing the term Trinity? Had the Trinity been the
          > spinal cord of Christianity, Jesus would have emphasized it on many
          > occasions and would have taught and explained it in detail to the people.
          > 13.Christians claim that Jesus was God as they quote in John 1:1 "In the
          > beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God".
          > This is John speaking and not Jesus. Also, the Greek word for the first
          > occurrence of God is HOTHEOS which means "the God" or "God" with a capital
          > "G", while the Greek word for its second occurrence is "TONTHEOS", which
          > means "a god " or "god" with a small "g". Isn't this dishonesty and
          > inconsistency on the part of those translating the Greek Bible? ? Isn't
          > such quotation in John 1:1 recognized by every Christian scholar of the
          > Bible to have been written by a Jew named Philo Alexandria way before
          > Jesus and John? 14.Wasn't the word "god" or "TONTHEOS" also used to refer
          > to others as well as in II Corinthians 4:4 "(and the Devil is) the god of
          > this world" and in Exodus 7:1 "See, I have made thee (Moses) a god to
          > Pharaoh"?
          >
          > SALVATION:
          > Christians say that "GOD LOST His only son to save us". To whom did
          > God lose Jesus if he owns the whole universe?
          > 15. If it was agreeable with God's Majesty to have sons, He could
          > have created a million sons the like of Jesus. So what is the big
          > clear deal about this only son?
          > 16.Why does the Bible say that Jesus wanted to die on the cross, when the
          > one on the cross was shouting "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
          > according to Matthew 27:45 and Mark 15:33? 17. If God had wanted to save
          > us, couldn't He have done that without sacrificing Jesus? 18. God is Just,
          > and justice requires that nobody should be punished for the sins of
          > others, nor should some people be saved by punishing other people. Doesn't
          > the claim that God sacrificed Jesus to save us because He was Just,
          > contradict the definition of justice? 19. People sacrifice things they
          > have to get something they don't have when they can't have both.
          > Christians say "God SACRIFICED His only son to save us". We know that God
          > is Almighty; to whom did He sacrifice Jesus? 20. A real sacrifice is when
          > you can't get back what you have offered, so what would be the big deal
          > about such a sacrifice if God could recover the same offering? (According
          > to the Christians' terminology)? 21. If all the Christians are saved
          > through Jesus and are going to Heaven no matter what they do, then the
          > teachings of Jesus are irrelevant and the definition of good and bad are
          > also rendered irrelevant. If this is not so, then do Christians who
          > believe in Jesus yet do not follow his teachings nor repent go to Hell?
          > 22. How can Christians take deeds as irrelevant after becoming one when
          > Jesus says in Matthew 12:36; "But I say unto you that every idle word that
          > men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the Day of Judgment.
          > For by the words thou shalt be justified, and by the words thou shalt be
          > condemned"? 23. Christians say that people go to Heaven ONLY THROUGH
          > JESUS, yet Paul says in 1 CORINTHIANS 7:8-16 that the unbelieving husband
          > is acceptable to God because he is united with his wife and vice versa,
          > and their pagan children are also acceptable to God. So people can go to
          > heaven without believing in Jesus according to this. 24. How come the
          > Bible says that ALL Israel is saved although they don't believe in Jesus?
          > Doesn't that contradict the claim in the Bible that the only way to heaven
          > is through Jesus? 25. According to Christians, those who have not been
          > baptized will go to Hell. So even the infants and babies go to Hell if not
          > baptized, since they are born with an inherited original sin. Doesn't this
          > contradict the definition of justice? Why would God punish people for sins
          > they never committed?
          >
          >
          > HOLY SPIRIT:
          > The only place in the Bible where the Paraclete was called the Holy
          > Spirit is in John 14:26 "But the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, whom the
          > Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to
          > your remembrance all that I have said to you". What has the Holy Spirit
          > brought or taught for the last 2000 years?
          >
          > 26.Christians say that the Paraclete means the Holy Spirit (John 14; 26).
          > Jesus said in John 16:7-8 "If I do not go away the Paraclete will not come
          > to you". This could not mean the Holy spirit, since the Holy spirit was
          > said to have been there before Jesus was even born as in Luke 1:41
          > "Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit". Here, the Holy Spirit was
          > also present during Jesus lifetime. So how could this fit with the
          > condition that Jesus must go away so that the Holy Spirit will come?
          > 27.In John 16:7-8, it says: "But if go, I will send him to you. And when
          > he comes, he will convict the world of sins and of righteousness and of
          > Judgment". What do "he" and "him" refer here? Don't they refer to a man?
          > 28.Does the Holy Spirit talk to good Christians and bad Christians as
          > well? Is the Holy spirit with them all the time or just at certain times?
          > When does it start visiting a person who wants to become a Christian?
          > 29.How can you as a Christian tell if the Holy Spirit is inside another
          > Christian? How come many Christians fooled people by claiming that the
          > Holy Spirit was inside them only to be converted to another religion later
          > on? 30.Does the Holy Spirit dictate what Christians should do without
          > choice or freedom at all or does it only guide them and they have the
          > freedom to follow or not? 31.If the Holy Spirit dictates what Christian
          > should do, why do Christians commit sins and make mistakes? How can you
          > explain the conversion to other religions and atheism of many Christians?
          > Are they told to do that by the Holy Spirit? 32.If the Holy Spirit guides
          > Christians only, and they are free to do what they want, then how do we
          > know that the writers of the Gospels didn't make mistakes in writing them?
          > 33.If Christians believe that the Holy Spirit comes and talks to them
          > everyday, why don't they ask the Holy Spirit about which version of the
          > Bible to follow since there are too many versions floating around?
          >
          > MISSION OF JESUS:
          > Without borrowing from other religions and systems, can Christianity
          > provide people with a complete way of life? Since Christianity is limited
          > to spiritual life and does not provide law, how can a society decide which
          > laws are right or wrong? 34.Why do the Christians say that Jesus came with
          > a universal mission when he said that he was sent to the Jews only? He
          > said to the Canaanite woman who asked him to heal her daughter from demon-
          > possession: "I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel" and also said:
          > "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs",
          > Matthew 15:21-28.
          >
          > RESSURECTION:
          > If you read Matthew (28:1-10), Mark (16:1-20), Luke (24:1-12), and
          > John (20: 1-18), you will find contradicting stories. They all agreed that
          > the tomb was guarded for three days. However, they reported the discovery
          > of the empty tomb differently. · Matthew (28) and John (20) reported that
          > Mary Magdalene and the other Mary were the first to discover the tomb.
          > · Mark (16) reports that Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and
          > Salome were the first to discover the empty tomb. · Mark (28) reports that
          > there was an earthquake that removed the rock from over the tomb. He says
          > that an angel caused it. The other gospels do not mention of an
          > earthquake. · Matthew and Mark say that only ONE man in white clothes was
          > sitting on the tomb when the woman arrived, and that he was an angel.
          > · Luke says that TWO men in white clothes, who were angels, were sitting.
          > Johns says that the two women did not meet anybody the first time they
          > came to the tomb, but when they returned, they saw TWO people, ONE was an
          > ANGEL, and the other was JESUS. · Matthew reports that when the guards
          > reported this to the chief priest, the chief priest paid them a large sum
          > of money, telling them: "You have to say that his disciples came at night
          > and stole his body." He claims that the soldiers took money and spread the
          > story around and since then, the story had been circulating among the Jews
          > until today (according to Matthew). The other gospels do not report of any
          > such thing. 35. Which narration now is more authentic? 36.Why is the
          > appearance of Jesus after the crucifixion taken as a proof of his
          > resurrection when there is an explanation that he was not dead because
          > someone else was crucified in his place when God saved Him? 37.How did
          > Matthew know of the claimed agreement between the soldiers and the chief
          > priest? Can't someone say that someone paid the women a large sum of money
          > and told them to spread the word around that Jesus rose from the dead,
          > with the same authenticity as that of the story of Matthew? 38.Why did
          > they believe that man in the white clothes? Why did they believe he was an
          > angel? John's narration is too strange, since he says that Mary did not
          > recognize Jesus (one of the two) while talking to him, and she only
          > recognized him when he called her by her name. 39.How does an empty tomb
          > prove that Jesus was crucified? Isn't it that God is capable of removing
          > another man from the tomb, and of resurrecting him too? 40.The Gospels are
          > believed to be the verbatim words of God; they are supposed to be dictated
          > by the Holy Spirit to the Disciples who wrote them. If the source were the
          > same, why shouldn't they correspond with each other in reporting such an
          > important event? 41.How could Matthew, Mark, Luke and John be considered
          > eyewitnesses of resurrection when the Bible implies that nobody at all saw
          > Jesus coming out of the tomb?
          >
          > BIBLE:
          > If the Christians consider the Old Testament as God's Word, why did
          > they cancel the parts of the Old Testament that dealt with punishment
          > (example: the punishment for adultery)? 42.Why doesn't Mark 16:9-20 exist
          > in as many versions of the Bible while it exists as a footnote or between
          > brackets in some other versions? Is a footnote in the Bible still
          > considered as God's word, especially when it addresses an important
          > feature like the Ascension? 43.Why does the Catholic Bible contain 73
          > books while the Protestant Bible has only 66? With both claiming to have
          > the complete Word of God, which one should be believed and why? 44.Where
          > do those new translations of the Bible keep coming from when the original
          > Bible is not even available? The Greek manuscripts that are translations
          > them selves are not even similar with each other. 45.How can you take two
          > gospels from writers who never met Jesus, like Mark and Luke? 46.Why is
          > half of the New Testament written by a man who never even met Jesus in his
          > lifetime? PAUL claimed with no proof that he had met Jesus while on his
          > way from Jerusalem to Damascus. PAUL was the main enemy of Christianity.
          > Isn't that reason enough to question the authenticity of what he wrote?
          > Why do the Christians call those books of the Old Testament "God's Word"
          > when the revisers of the RSV Bible say that some of the authors are
          > UNKNOWN? They say that the author of SAMUEL is "UNKNOWN" and that of
          > CHRONICLES is "UNKOWN, PROBABLY COLLECTED AND EDITED BY EZRA"!
          >
          > CONTRADICTIONS:
          > 47.Concerning the controversial issues in the Bible, how can
          > Christians decide by two-thirds majority what is God's Word and what is
          > not, as the prefaces of some Bibles say like that one of the RSV? 48.Why
          > does Luke in his gospel report the Ascension on Easter Day, and in the
          > Acts, in which he is recognized as the author, FORTY days later? 49.The
          > genealogy of Jesus is mentioned in Matthew and Luke only. Matthew listed
          > 26 forefathers from Joseph to David while Luke enumerated 41 forefathers.
          > Only Joseph matches with Joseph in those two lists. Not a single other
          > name matches! If these were inspired by God word by word, how could they
          > be different? Some claim that one is for Mary and one is for Joseph, but
          > where does it say Mary in those two Gospels? 50.If Moses wrote the first
          > books of the Old Testament, how could Moses write his own obituary? Moses
          > died in the fifth book at age 120 as mentioned in Deut. 34:5-10. 51.In the
          > King James Version, why does it report SEVEN years of famine in II SAMUEL
          > 24:13 while it reports THREE years of famine in I CHRONICLES 21:12? Why
          > did they change both to THREE years in the New International Version and
          > other versions? 52.Still In the same King James Version, why does it say
          > that Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign in II
          > CHRONICLES 21:12, while it says EIGHTEEN years in II KINGS 24:8? Why did
          > thessey change in both to EIGHTEEN in the new Versions? 53.In all
          > versions, why does it say that David slew the men of SEVEN HUNDRED
          > chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand HORSEMEN as evidenced in II
          > Samuel 10:18 while its says SEVEN THOUSAND men which fought in chariots,
          > and forty thousand FOOTMEN, in I CHRONICLES 19:18? 54.In all versions, why
          > does it report TWO thousand baths in I KINGS 7:26 while II CHRONICLES 4:5
          > reports THREE THOUSAND? 55.In the King James version, why does it report
          > that Solomon had FOUR THOUSAND stalls for horses in II CHRONICLES 9:25
          > while it accounts that Solomon had FORTY THOUSAND stalls of horses in 1
          > KINGS 4:26? Why did they change both to FOUR THOUSAND in the new versions?
          > 56.In GENESIS 1, God's creation progresses from grass to trees to fowls,
          > whales, cattle and creeping things and finally to man and woman. GENESIS
          > 2, however, puts the creation of man before cattle and fowl and woman
          > subsequent to beast. How can this be explained? QUR'AN AND CHRISTIANS This
          > section does not inquire or interrogate, but rather provides the reader
          > with some of the Qur'anic verses that address the Christians in
          > particular, and the people of the scripture in general. A great portion of
          > the Qur'an pertains to or involves the Christians and the Jews and I
          > decided to just choose verses that are related to the topic of this
          > manuscript.
          >
          > · "Lo! The likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of
          > Adam. He created him of dust, then said unto him: Be, and he was." Al-
          > Qur'an 3:59. · "Say: O People of the Scripture! Come to an agreement
          > between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we
          > shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others
          > for Lords besides Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness
          > that we are they who have surrendered (unto him). "O People of the
          > Scripture! Why will you argue about Abraham, when the Torah and the Gospel
          > were revealed till after him? Have you then no sense? Abraham was not a
          > Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was an upright man who had surrendered
          > (to Allah), and he was not of the idolaters. Lo! Those of mankind who have
          > the best claim to Abraham are those who followed him, and his Prophet and
          > those who believe (with him); and Allah is the Protector of the believers.
          > A party of the People of the Scripture longs to make you go astray; and
          > they make none to go astray except themselves, but they perceive not. O
          > People of the Scripture! Why disbelieve you in the revelations of Allah,
          > when you (yourselves) bear witness to their truth? O People of the
          > Scriptures! Why confound you truth with falsehood and knowingly conceal
          > the Truth? (Al-Qur'an 3: 64-71) · And whoever seeks a religion other than
          > Islam, it will never be accepted of him and in the hereafter, He will be
          > one of the losers (Al-Qur'an 3:85). · And because of their saying: We
          > slew the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, and Allah's messenger. They slew him
          > not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them, and Lo! Those who
          > disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge
          > thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain: But
          > Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise. (Al- Qur'an
          > 4:157-158). · O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your
          > religion nor utter ought concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah
          > Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He
          > conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him, so believe in Allah and His
          > messengers, and say not "Three"! Cease! (It is) better for you! Allah is
          > only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that He
          > should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in
          > the earth. And Allah is sufficient as defender. The Messiah will never
          > scorn to be a slave unto Allah, nor will the favored angels. Whosoever
          > scorns His service and is proud, all such will assemble unto Him. Then, as
          > for those who believed and did good works, unto them will He give them
          > their wages in full, adding unto them of His bounty; and as for those who
          > were scornful and proud, then He will punish with a painful doom."
          > (Al-Qur'an 4:171-173). · "And with those who say Lo! We are Christians, We
          > made a covenant, but they forgot a part of that whereof they were
          > admonished. Therefore we have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till
          > the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will inform them of their handiwork. O
          > People of the Scripture! Now has our messenger come unto you, expounding
          > unto you much of that which you used to hide in the Scripture, and
          > forgiving much. Now has come unto light from Allah and plain scripture:
          > Whereby Allah guides him who seeks His good pleasure unto paths of peace,
          > He brings them out of darkness unto light by His decree, and guides them
          > unto a Straight Path. They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is
          > the messiah, son of Mary. Say: Who then can do aught against Allah if he
          > had willed to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother and everyone
          > on earth? Allah's is the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all
          > that is between them. He creates what he wills. And Allah is able to do
          > all things. (Al-Qur'an 5:14:17). · "They surely disbelieve who say; lo!
          > Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O children
          > if Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and you Lord. Lo! Whosoever ascribes
          > partners unto Allah, for him Allah has forbidden Paradise. His abode is
          > the Fire. For evildoers, there will be no helpers. They surely disbelieve
          > who say: Lo! Allah is the third of the three; when there is no God save
          > the One God. If they desist not from so saying, a painful doom will fall
          > on those of them who disbelieve. Will they not rather turn unto Allah and
          > seek forgiveness of Him? For Allah is oft-forgiving, most merciful. Say:
          > Serve you in place of Allah that which possesses for you neither hurt nor
          > use? Allah is the Hearer, the Knower. Say: O People of the Scripture!
          > Stress not in your religion other than the Truth, and follow not the vain
          > desire of folks who erred of old and led many astray, and erred from a
          > plain road." (Al-Qur'an 5:72-77) · "And when Allah says: O Jesus, son of
          > Mary: Did you say unto mankind: take me and my mother for two gods beside
          > Allah? He says: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had
          > no right. If I used to say it, then You Knew it, you know what is in my
          > mind, and I know not what is in your mind. Lo! You, only you, are the
          > knower of things hidden. I spoke unto them only that which you commanded
          > me (saying); worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I witness of them while
          > I dwelt among them, and when you took me, you were the Watcher over them.
          > You are witness over all things. If you punish them, lo! They are your
          > slaves, and if you forgive them (Lo! They are your slaves). Lo! You, only
          > you are the Mighty, the Wise. Allah says: This is a day in which their
          > truthfulness profits the truthful, for theirs are Gardens underneath which
          > rivers flow, wherein they are secure forever, Allah taking pleasure in
          > them and they in Him. That is the great triumph. (Al-Qur'an 5:116-119)
          > · "And the Jews say: `Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah', and the
          > Christians say: `The Messiah is the son of Allah'. That is their saying
          > with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of
          > old. Allah fights against them. How perverse they are! They have taken as
          > Lord besides Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of
          > Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One God. There is no God save
          > Him. Be He glorified from all that they ascribe as partners (unto him)!
          > Faint would they put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah
          > disdains (aught) save that He shall perfect His light, however much the
          > disbelievers are averse. He it is Who has sent His messenger with guidance
          > and the Religion of Truth, to cause it to prevail over all religions,
          > however much the idolaters may be averse. O you who believe! Lo! Many of
          > the (Jewish) rabbis and the (Christian) monks devour the wealth of mankind
          > wantonly and debar (people) from the way of Allah. They who hoard up gold
          > and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah, unto them give tidings (O
          > Muhammad) of a painful doom. On the Day when it will (all) be heated in
          > the fire of Hell, and their foreheads and their flanks and their backs
          > will be branded therewith (and it will be said unto them): Here is that
          > which you hoarded for yourselves. Now taste of what you used to hoard."
          > (Al- Qur'an 9:30-35).
          >
          > MUHAMMAD OR JESUS?
          > Christians claim that the prophecy in Deut. 18:18 refers to Jesus and not
          > Muhammad. The verse says: "I will raise them up a prophet from among THEIR
          > BRETHREN, LIKE UNTO THEE, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he
          > shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." The only reason they
          > resort to such interpretation is that both Moses and Jesus were prophets.
          > Even this one contradicts their claim that Jesus was God and not a
          > Prophet. Many prophets of the Jews had the similarity with Moses. However,
          > if we compare Muhammad to Moses, we will find that: Muhammad was an Arab,
          > and the Arabs are from Ishmael, son of Abraham, while Moses was a Jew, and
          > the Jews are from Isaac, son of Abraham. Hence, the term THEIR BRETHREN
          > refers to the children of the first son being brethren of the children of
          > the other. This couldn't apply to Jesus, since he was a Jew. According to
          > the Christians, Jesus went to Hell for three days while Moses did not.
          > Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses. (In Islam, none of the three Prophets
          > went to Hell) Moses and Muhammad were born to fathers and mothers while
          > Jesus was born to a mother alone. Moses and Muhammad got married and had
          > children, while Jesus did not marry at all. Moses and Muhammad got
          > problems and difficulties from their people initially, but were accepted
          > by them at the end., whereas Jesus was rejected by his people at the start
          > and is still rejected by the Jews until today. "He (Jesus) came unto his
          > own, but his own received him not". (John 1:11) Moses and Muhammad had
          > power, besides being prophets. They both performed some capital
          > punishments, for example, while Jesus had no power over his people. "My
          > kingdom is not of this world", Jesus said in John 18:36. Moses and
          > Muhammad brought new laws while Jesus did not. Moses was forced to
          > emigrate in adulthood to Median while Muhammad was forced to emigrate at
          > that stage in his life too, towards Madina. Whereas Jesus did not have
          > such forced emigration in his adulthood. Moses and Muhammad both died of
          > natural deaths after which they were buried, while the same could not be
          > said of Jesus. He was neither killed nor crucified at all, according to
          > the Qur'an and did not die a `natural' death as could be affirmed by
          > Christians who believe in Crucifixion. FINAL QUESTIONS: 57.Why won't you,
          > Christian reader, come to hear and learn of the true religion of Jesus?
          > 58.Have you, as a Christian, learned of Islam and if so, was it from the
          > true Muslims? 59.As a Christian, do you agree that out of fairness and
          > honesty you must investigate what Islam says about God, Jesus, including
          > this life and the hereafter? 60.Being a Christian, do you also believe
          > that we must all stand accountable to our Creator and that the Creator is
          > perfect and just? As a sincere believer in God, don't you owe it upon
          > yourself to find out the entire unadulterated truth regardless of the
          > consequences?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >



          Kevin Impson
          Manager
          509-469-7459
          wizard@...
          impsonkw@...
          http://www.sub-link.net
          http://www.ediron.net

          ALWAYS QUESTION REALITY?
        • david a smith
          Last week, four American planes were hijacked- two were deliberately flown into the World Trade Center, one into the Pentagon, the last crashed into a field in
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 18, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            Last week, four American planes were hijacked- two were deliberately flown
            into the World Trade Center, one into the Pentagon, the last crashed into a
            field in Pennsylvania. Supposedly, this was the work of Muslim extremists,
            for reasons unclear. No words can express how appalled I am at the work of
            these terrorists, nor can any words express the grief endured by those who
            lost loved ones or friends in this calamity.
            Sunday night, I returned home from abroad to find my country under attack.
            (My flight to the USA had been delayed three days, but that's another
            story.) Monday afternoon, while reading through SRS emails (about 200!), I
            found that my faith as a Christian is also under attack, though indirectly.
            Why was this message posted to a robotics group, of all places? Please tell
            me, that this posting had nothing to do with the terrorist attacks which
            occurred on the 11th. However, I find the below two quotes, from the
            original posting, quite troubling.

            Then, as for those who believed and did good works, unto them will He
            give them their wages in full, adding unto them of His bounty; and as
            for those who were scornful and proud, then He will punish with a
            painful doom." (Al-Qur'an 4:171-173).

            O you who believe! Lo! Many of the (Jewish) rabbis and the
            (Christian) monks devour the wealth of mankind wantonly and debar
            (people) from the way of Allah. They who hoard up gold and silver and
            spend it not in the way of Allah, unto them give tidings (O Muhammad)
            of a painful doom.
            On the Day when it will (all) be heated in the fire of Hell, and
            their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be branded
            therewith (and it will be said unto them): Here is that which you
            hoarded for yourselves. Now taste of what you used to hoard." (Al-
            Qur'an 9:30-35).

            To whomever originally posted the below "60 Questions For The Christians",
            please tell me that you denounce these kinds of barbaric attacks on innocent
            people. If Allah is the true God, shouldn't he be able to punish those who
            reject him, without resorting to help from his followers, and to terrorist
            methods? Even so, as a Christian, I am compelled to follow my God's command
            in Romans 12:14 "Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse."

            I would love to be able to answer any sincere questions you may have about
            my faith as a Christian. First, though, I would like to direct you to the
            below web page, which has many links explaining Islam, and the differences
            between Islam and Christianity.
            http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/i07.html
            The link below may help to clear up your "60 Questions For The Christians".
            http://debate.org.uk/topics/apolog/contrads.htm

            Above all, however, let's move this religious discussion off of a email
            group for robots, and unite together, regardless of religious conviction,
            against these terrorist crimes against humanity. My apologies for writing
            such a long-winded reply to such an off-topic posting.

            Sincerely,
            David Smith


            -----Original Message-----
            From: frnas4@... [mailto:frnas4@...]
            Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 4:43 PM
            To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [SeattleRobotics] 60 Questions For The Christians



            60 Questions For The Christians


            TRINITY
            According to most Christians, Jesus was God incarnate, full man and
            full God. Can the finite and the infinite be one? "To be full" God
            means freedom from finite forms and from helplessness, and to
            be "full man" means the absence of divinity.
            1.To be son is to be less than divine and to be divine is to be no
            one's son. How could Jesus have the attributes of son ship and
            divinity altogether?
            2.Christians assert that Jesus claimed to be God when they quote him
            in John 14:9: "He that has seen me has seen the Father". Didn't Jesus
            clearly say that people have never seen God, as it says in John
            5:37: "And the father himself which Has sent me, has borne witness of
            me. You have NEITHER HEARD HIS VOICE AT ANY TIME NOR SEEN HIS SHAPE"?
            3.Christians say that Jesus was God because he was called Son of God,
            Son of Man, Messiah, and "savior". Ezekiel was addressed in the Bible
            as Son of Man. Jesus spoke of "the peace makers" as Sons of God. Any
            person who followed the Will and Plan of God was called SON OF GOD in
            the Jewish tradition and in their language (Genesis 6:2,4; Exodus
            4:22; Psalm 2:7; Romans 8:14). "Messiah" which in Hebrew means "God's
            anointed" and not "Christ", and "Cyrus" the person is
            called "Messiah" or "the anointed". As for "savior", in II KINGS
            13:5, other individuals were given that title too without being gods.
            So where is the proof in these terms that Jesus was God when the word
            son is not exclusively used for him alone?
            4.Christians claim that Jesus acknowledged that he and God were one
            in the sense of nature when he says in John 10:30 "I and my father
            are one". Later on in John 17:21-23, Jesus refers to his followers
            and himself and God as one in five places. So why did they give the
            previous "one" a different meaning from the other five "ones?
            5.Is God three-in-one and one in three simultaneously or one at a
            time?
            6.If God is one and three simultaneously, then none of the three
            could be the complete God. Granting that such was the case, then when
            Jesus was on earth, he wasn't a complete God, nor was the "father in
            Heaven" a whole God. Doesn't that contradict what Jesus always said
            about His God and our God in heaven, his Lord and our Lord? Does that
            also mean that there was no complete god then, between the claimed
            crucifixion and the claimed resurrection?
            7.If God is one and three at a time, then who was the God in heaven
            when Jesus was on earth? Wouldn't this contradict his many references
            to a God in Heaven that sent him?
            8.If God is three and one at the same time, who was the God in Heaven
            within three days between the claimed crucifixion and the claimed
            resurrect ion?
            9.Christians say that: "The Father (F) is God, the Son (S) is God,
            and the Holy Ghost (H) is God, but the Father is not the Son, the Son
            is not the Holy Ghost, and the Holy Ghost is not the Father". In
            simple arithmetic and terms therefore, if F = G, S = G, and H = G,
            then it follows that F = S = H, while the second part of the
            statement suggests that F ¹ S ¹ H (meaning, "not equal"). Isn't that
            a contradiction to the Christian dogma of Trinity in itself?
            10.If Jesus was God, why did he tell the man who called him "good
            master" not to call him "good" because accordingly, there is none
            good but his God in Heaven alone?
            11.Why do Christians say that God is three-in-one and one in three
            when Jesus says in Mark 12:29: "The Lord our God is one Lord" in as
            many places as yet in the Bible?
            12.If belief in the Trinity was such a necessary condition for being
            a Christian, why didn't Jesus teach and emphasize it to the
            Christians during his time? How were those followers of Jesus
            considered Christians without ever hearing the term Trinity? Had the
            Trinity been the spinal cord of Christianity, Jesus would have
            emphasized it on many occasions and would have taught and explained
            it in detail to the people.
            13.Christians claim that Jesus was God as they quote in John 1:1 "In
            the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
            was God". This is John speaking and not Jesus. Also, the Greek word
            for the first occurrence of God is HOTHEOS which means "the God"
            or "God" with a capital "G", while the Greek word for its second
            occurrence is "TONTHEOS", which means "a god " or "god" with a
            small "g". Isn't this dishonesty and inconsistency on the part of
            those translating the Greek Bible? ? Isn't such quotation in John 1:1
            recognized by every Christian scholar of the Bible to have been
            written by a Jew named Philo Alexandria way before Jesus and John?
            14.Wasn't the word "god" or "TONTHEOS" also used to refer to others
            as well as in II Corinthians 4:4 "(and the Devil is) the god of this
            world" and in Exodus 7:1 "See, I have made thee (Moses) a god to
            Pharaoh"?

            SALVATION:
            Christians say that "GOD LOST His only son to save us". To whom did
            God lose Jesus if he owns the whole universe?
            15. If it was agreeable with God's Majesty to have sons, He could
            have created a million sons the like of Jesus. So what is the big
            clear deal about this only son?
            16.Why does the Bible say that Jesus wanted to die on the cross, when
            the one on the cross was shouting "My God, my God, why have you
            forsaken me?" according to Matthew 27:45 and Mark 15:33?
            17. If God had wanted to save us, couldn't He have done that without
            sacrificing Jesus?
            18. God is Just, and justice requires that nobody should be punished
            for the sins of others, nor should some people be saved by punishing
            other people. Doesn't the claim that God sacrificed Jesus to save us
            because He was Just, contradict the definition of justice?
            19. People sacrifice things they have to get something they don't
            have when they can't have both. Christians say "God SACRIFICED His
            only son to save us". We know that God is Almighty; to whom did He
            sacrifice Jesus?
            20. A real sacrifice is when you can't get back what you have
            offered, so what would be the big deal about such a sacrifice if God
            could recover the same offering? (According to the Christians'
            terminology)?
            21. If all the Christians are saved through Jesus and are going to
            Heaven no matter what they do, then the teachings of Jesus are
            irrelevant and the definition of good and bad are also rendered
            irrelevant. If this is not so, then do Christians who believe in
            Jesus yet do not follow his teachings nor repent go to Hell?
            22. How can Christians take deeds as irrelevant after becoming one
            when Jesus says in Matthew 12:36; "But I say unto you that every idle
            word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the Day
            of Judgment. For by the words thou shalt be justified, and by the
            words thou shalt be condemned"?
            23. Christians say that people go to Heaven ONLY THROUGH JESUS, yet
            Paul says in 1 CORINTHIANS 7:8-16 that the unbelieving husband is
            acceptable to God because he is united with his wife and vice versa,
            and their pagan children are also acceptable to God. So people can go
            to heaven without believing in Jesus according to this.
            24. How come the Bible says that ALL Israel is saved although they
            don't believe in Jesus? Doesn't that contradict the claim in the
            Bible that the only way to heaven is through Jesus?
            25. According to Christians, those who have not been baptized will go
            to Hell. So even the infants and babies go to Hell if not baptized,
            since they are born with an inherited original sin. Doesn't this
            contradict the definition of justice? Why would God punish people for
            sins they never committed?


            HOLY SPIRIT:
            The only place in the Bible where the Paraclete was called the Holy
            Spirit is in John 14:26 "But the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, whom the
            Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring
            to your remembrance all that I have said to you". What has the Holy
            Spirit brought or taught for the last 2000 years?

            26.Christians say that the Paraclete means the Holy Spirit (John 14;
            26). Jesus said in John 16:7-8 "If I do not go away the Paraclete
            will not come to you". This could not mean the Holy spirit, since the
            Holy spirit was said to have been there before Jesus was even born as
            in Luke 1:41 "Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit". Here, the
            Holy Spirit was also present during Jesus lifetime. So how could this
            fit with the condition that Jesus must go away so that the Holy
            Spirit will come?
            27.In John 16:7-8, it says: "But if go, I will send him to you. And
            when he comes, he will convict the world of sins and of righteousness
            and of Judgment". What do "he" and "him" refer here? Don't they refer
            to a man?
            28.Does the Holy Spirit talk to good Christians and bad Christians as
            well? Is the Holy spirit with them all the time or just at certain
            times? When does it start visiting a person who wants to become a
            Christian?
            29.How can you as a Christian tell if the Holy Spirit is inside
            another Christian? How come many Christians fooled people by claiming
            that the Holy Spirit was inside them only to be converted to another
            religion later on?
            30.Does the Holy Spirit dictate what Christians should do without
            choice or freedom at all or does it only guide them and they have the
            freedom to follow or not?
            31.If the Holy Spirit dictates what Christian should do, why do
            Christians commit sins and make mistakes? How can you explain the
            conversion to other religions and atheism of many Christians? Are
            they told to do that by the Holy Spirit?
            32.If the Holy Spirit guides Christians only, and they are free to do
            what they want, then how do we know that the writers of the Gospels
            didn't make mistakes in writing them?
            33.If Christians believe that the Holy Spirit comes and talks to them
            everyday, why don't they ask the Holy Spirit about which version of
            the Bible to follow since there are too many versions floating
            around?

            MISSION OF JESUS:
            Without borrowing from other religions and systems, can Christianity
            provide people with a complete way of life? Since Christianity is
            limited to spiritual life and does not provide law, how can a society
            decide which laws are right or wrong?
            34.Why do the Christians say that Jesus came with a universal mission
            when he said that he was sent to the Jews only? He said to the
            Canaanite woman who asked him to heal her daughter from demon-
            possession: "I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel" and also
            said: "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to
            their dogs", Matthew 15:21-28.

            RESSURECTION:
            If you read Matthew (28:1-10), Mark (16:1-20), Luke (24:1-12), and
            John (20: 1-18), you will find contradicting stories. They all agreed
            that the tomb was guarded for three days. However, they reported the
            discovery of the empty tomb differently.
            · Matthew (28) and John (20) reported that Mary Magdalene and
            the other Mary were the first to discover the tomb.
            · Mark (16) reports that Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of
            James, and Salome were the first to discover the empty tomb.
            · Mark (28) reports that there was an earthquake that removed
            the rock from over the tomb. He says that an angel caused it. The
            other gospels do not mention of an earthquake.
            · Matthew and Mark say that only ONE man in white clothes was
            sitting on the tomb when the woman arrived, and that he was an angel.
            · Luke says that TWO men in white clothes, who were angels,
            were sitting. Johns says that the two women did not meet anybody the
            first time they came to the tomb, but when they returned, they saw
            TWO people, ONE was an ANGEL, and the other was JESUS.
            · Matthew reports that when the guards reported this to the
            chief priest, the chief priest paid them a large sum of money,
            telling them: "You have to say that his disciples came at night and
            stole his body." He claims that the soldiers took money and spread
            the story around and since then, the story had been circulating among
            the Jews until today (according to Matthew). The other gospels do not
            report of any such thing.
            35. Which narration now is more authentic?
            36.Why is the appearance of Jesus after the crucifixion taken as a
            proof of his resurrection when there is an explanation that he was
            not dead because someone else was crucified in his place when God
            saved Him?
            37.How did Matthew know of the claimed agreement between the soldiers
            and the chief priest? Can't someone say that someone paid the women a
            large sum of money and told them to spread the word around that Jesus
            rose from the dead, with the same authenticity as that of the story
            of Matthew?
            38.Why did they believe that man in the white clothes? Why did they
            believe he was an angel? John's narration is too strange, since he
            says that Mary did not recognize Jesus (one of the two) while talking
            to him, and she only recognized him when he called her by her name.
            39.How does an empty tomb prove that Jesus was crucified? Isn't it
            that God is capable of removing another man from the tomb, and of
            resurrecting him too?
            40.The Gospels are believed to be the verbatim words of God; they are
            supposed to be dictated by the Holy Spirit to the Disciples who wrote
            them. If the source were the same, why shouldn't they correspond with
            each other in reporting such an important event?
            41.How could Matthew, Mark, Luke and John be considered eyewitnesses
            of resurrection when the Bible implies that nobody at all saw Jesus
            coming out of the tomb?

            BIBLE:
            If the Christians consider the Old Testament as God's Word, why did
            they cancel the parts of the Old Testament that dealt with punishment
            (example: the punishment for adultery)?
            42.Why doesn't Mark 16:9-20 exist in as many versions of the Bible
            while it exists as a footnote or between brackets in some other
            versions? Is a footnote in the Bible still considered as God's word,
            especially when it addresses an important feature like the Ascension?
            43.Why does the Catholic Bible contain 73 books while the Protestant
            Bible has only 66? With both claiming to have the complete Word of
            God, which one should be believed and why?
            44.Where do those new translations of the Bible keep coming from when
            the original Bible is not even available? The Greek manuscripts that
            are translations them selves are not even similar with each other.
            45.How can you take two gospels from writers who never met Jesus,
            like Mark and Luke?
            46.Why is half of the New Testament written by a man who never even
            met Jesus in his lifetime? PAUL claimed with no proof that he had met
            Jesus while on his way from Jerusalem to Damascus. PAUL was the main
            enemy of Christianity. Isn't that reason enough to question the
            authenticity of what he wrote? Why do the Christians call those books
            of the Old Testament "God's Word" when the revisers of the RSV Bible
            say that some of the authors are UNKNOWN? They say that the author of
            SAMUEL is "UNKNOWN" and that of CHRONICLES is "UNKOWN, PROBABLY
            COLLECTED AND EDITED BY EZRA"!

            CONTRADICTIONS:
            47.Concerning the controversial issues in the Bible, how can
            Christians decide by two-thirds majority what is God's Word and what
            is not, as the prefaces of some Bibles say like that one of the RSV?
            48.Why does Luke in his gospel report the Ascension on Easter Day,
            and in the Acts, in which he is recognized as the author, FORTY days
            later?
            49.The genealogy of Jesus is mentioned in Matthew and Luke only.
            Matthew listed 26 forefathers from Joseph to David while Luke
            enumerated 41 forefathers. Only Joseph matches with Joseph in those
            two lists. Not a single other name matches! If these were inspired by
            God word by word, how could they be different? Some claim that one is
            for Mary and one is for Joseph, but where does it say Mary in those
            two Gospels?
            50.If Moses wrote the first books of the Old Testament, how could
            Moses write his own obituary? Moses died in the fifth book at age 120
            as mentioned in Deut. 34:5-10.
            51.In the King James Version, why does it report SEVEN years of
            famine in II SAMUEL 24:13 while it reports THREE years of famine in I
            CHRONICLES 21:12? Why did they change both to THREE years in the New
            International Version and other versions?
            52.Still In the same King James Version, why does it say that
            Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign in II
            CHRONICLES 21:12, while it says EIGHTEEN years in II KINGS 24:8? Why
            did thessey change in both to EIGHTEEN in the new Versions?
            53.In all versions, why does it say that David slew the men of SEVEN
            HUNDRED chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand HORSEMEN as
            evidenced in II Samuel 10:18 while its says SEVEN THOUSAND men which
            fought in chariots, and forty thousand FOOTMEN, in I CHRONICLES
            19:18?
            54.In all versions, why does it report TWO thousand baths in I KINGS
            7:26 while II CHRONICLES 4:5 reports THREE THOUSAND?
            55.In the King James version, why does it report that Solomon had
            FOUR THOUSAND stalls for horses in II CHRONICLES 9:25 while it
            accounts that Solomon had FORTY THOUSAND stalls of horses in 1 KINGS
            4:26? Why did they change both to FOUR THOUSAND in the new versions?
            56.In GENESIS 1, God's creation progresses from grass to trees to
            fowls, whales, cattle and creeping things and finally to man and
            woman. GENESIS 2, however, puts the creation of man before cattle and
            fowl and woman subsequent to beast. How can this be explained?
            QUR'AN AND CHRISTIANS
            This section does not inquire or interrogate, but rather provides the
            reader with some of the Qur'anic verses that address the Christians
            in particular, and the people of the scripture in general. A great
            portion of the Qur'an pertains to or involves the Christians and the
            Jews and I decided to just choose verses that are related to the
            topic of this manuscript.

            · "Lo! The likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of
            Adam. He created him of dust, then said unto him: Be, and he was." Al-
            Qur'an 3:59.
            · "Say: O People of the Scripture! Come to an agreement between
            us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall
            ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others
            for Lords besides Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear
            witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto him).
            "O People of the Scripture! Why will you argue about Abraham, when
            the Torah and the Gospel were revealed till after him? Have you then
            no sense?
            Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was an upright man
            who had surrendered (to Allah), and he was not of the idolaters.
            Lo! Those of mankind who have the best claim to Abraham are those who
            followed him, and his Prophet and those who believe (with him); and
            Allah is the Protector of the believers.
            A party of the People of the Scripture longs to make you go astray;
            and they make none to go astray except themselves, but they perceive
            not.
            O People of the Scripture! Why disbelieve you in the revelations of
            Allah, when you (yourselves) bear witness to their truth?
            O People of the Scriptures! Why confound you truth with falsehood and
            knowingly conceal the Truth? (Al-Qur'an 3: 64-71)
            · And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never
            be accepted of him and in the hereafter, He will be one of the losers
            (Al-Qur'an 3:85).
            · And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah Jesus, son
            of Mary, and Allah's messenger. They slew him not nor crucified him,
            but it appeared so unto them, and Lo! Those who disagree concerning
            it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit
            of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain:
            But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise. (Al-
            Qur'an 4:157-158).
            · O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion
            nor utter ought concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah Jesus
            son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He
            conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him, so believe in Allah and
            His messengers, and say not "Three"! Cease! (It is) better for you!
            Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent
            majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens
            and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as defender.
            The Messiah will never scorn to be a slave unto Allah, nor will the
            favored angels. Whosoever scorns His service and is proud, all such
            will assemble unto Him.
            Then, as for those who believed and did good works, unto them will He
            give them their wages in full, adding unto them of His bounty; and as
            for those who were scornful and proud, then He will punish with a
            painful doom." (Al-Qur'an 4:171-173).
            · "And with those who say Lo! We are Christians, We made a
            covenant, but they forgot a part of that whereof they were
            admonished. Therefore we have stirred up enmity and hatred among them
            till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will inform them of their
            handiwork.
            O People of the Scripture! Now has our messenger come unto you,
            expounding unto you much of that which you used to hide in the
            Scripture, and forgiving much. Now has come unto light from Allah and
            plain scripture:
            Whereby Allah guides him who seeks His good pleasure unto paths of
            peace, He brings them out of darkness unto light by His decree, and
            guides them unto a Straight Path.
            They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the messiah, son
            of Mary. Say: Who then can do aught against Allah if he had willed to
            destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother and everyone on
            earth? Allah's is the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and
            all that is between them. He creates what he wills. And Allah is able
            to do all things. (Al-Qur'an 5:14:17).
            · "They surely disbelieve who say; lo! Allah is the Messiah,
            son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O children if Israel,
            worship Allah, my Lord and you Lord. Lo! Whosoever ascribes partners
            unto Allah, for him Allah has forbidden Paradise. His abode is the
            Fire. For evildoers, there will be no helpers.
            They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of the three;
            when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so
            saying, a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve.
            Will they not rather turn unto Allah and seek forgiveness of Him? For
            Allah is oft-forgiving, most merciful.
            Say: Serve you in place of Allah that which possesses for you neither
            hurt nor use? Allah is the Hearer, the Knower.
            Say: O People of the Scripture! Stress not in your religion other
            than the Truth, and follow not the vain desire of folks who erred of
            old and led many astray, and erred from a plain road." (Al-Qur'an
            5:72-77)
            · "And when Allah says: O Jesus, son of Mary: Did you say unto
            mankind: take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? He says: Be
            glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If
            I used to say it, then You Knew it, you know what is in my mind, and
            I know not what is in your mind. Lo! You, only you, are the knower of
            things hidden.
            I spoke unto them only that which you commanded me (saying); worship
            Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I witness of them while I dwelt among
            them, and when you took me, you were the Watcher over them. You are
            witness over all things.
            If you punish them, lo! They are your slaves, and if you forgive them
            (Lo! They are your slaves). Lo! You, only you are the Mighty, the
            Wise.
            Allah says: This is a day in which their truthfulness profits the
            truthful, for theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow,
            wherein they are secure forever, Allah taking pleasure in them and
            they in Him. That is the great triumph. (Al-Qur'an 5:116-119)
            · "And the Jews say: `Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah', and
            the Christians say: `The Messiah is the son of Allah'. That is their
            saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who
            disbelieved of old. Allah fights against them. How perverse they are!
            They have taken as Lord besides Allah their rabbis and their monks
            and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only
            One God. There is no God save Him. Be He glorified from all that they
            ascribe as partners (unto him)!
            Faint would they put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but
            Allah disdains (aught) save that He shall perfect His light, however
            much the disbelievers are averse.
            He it is Who has sent His messenger with guidance and the Religion of
            Truth, to cause it to prevail over all religions, however much the
            idolaters may be averse.
            O you who believe! Lo! Many of the (Jewish) rabbis and the
            (Christian) monks devour the wealth of mankind wantonly and debar
            (people) from the way of Allah. They who hoard up gold and silver and
            spend it not in the way of Allah, unto them give tidings (O Muhammad)
            of a painful doom.
            On the Day when it will (all) be heated in the fire of Hell, and
            their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be branded
            therewith (and it will be said unto them): Here is that which you
            hoarded for yourselves. Now taste of what you used to hoard." (Al-
            Qur'an 9:30-35).

            MUHAMMAD OR JESUS?
            Christians claim that the prophecy in Deut. 18:18 refers to Jesus and
            not Muhammad. The verse says: "I will raise them up a prophet from
            among THEIR BRETHREN, LIKE UNTO THEE, and I will put my words in his
            mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
            The only reason they resort to such interpretation is that both Moses
            and Jesus were prophets. Even this one contradicts their claim that
            Jesus was God and not a Prophet. Many prophets of the Jews had the
            similarity with Moses. However, if we compare Muhammad to Moses, we
            will find that:
            Muhammad was an Arab, and the Arabs are from Ishmael, son of Abraham,
            while Moses was a Jew, and the Jews are from Isaac, son of Abraham.
            Hence, the term THEIR BRETHREN refers to the children of the first
            son being brethren of the children of the other. This couldn't apply
            to Jesus, since he was a Jew.
            According to the Christians, Jesus went to Hell for three days while
            Moses did not. Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses. (In Islam, none of
            the three Prophets went to Hell)
            Moses and Muhammad were born to fathers and mothers while Jesus was
            born to a mother alone.
            Moses and Muhammad got married and had children, while Jesus did not
            marry at all.
            Moses and Muhammad got problems and difficulties from their people
            initially, but were accepted by them at the end., whereas Jesus was
            rejected by his people at the start and is still rejected by the Jews
            until today. "He (Jesus) came unto his own, but his own received him
            not". (John 1:11)
            Moses and Muhammad had power, besides being prophets. They both
            performed some capital punishments, for example, while Jesus had no
            power over his people. "My kingdom is not of this world", Jesus said
            in John 18:36.
            Moses and Muhammad brought new laws while Jesus did not.
            Moses was forced to emigrate in adulthood to Median while Muhammad
            was forced to emigrate at that stage in his life too, towards Madina.
            Whereas Jesus did not have such forced emigration in his adulthood.
            Moses and Muhammad both died of natural deaths after which they were
            buried, while the same could not be said of Jesus. He was neither
            killed nor crucified at all, according to the Qur'an and did not die
            a `natural' death as could be affirmed by Christians who believe in
            Crucifixion.
            FINAL QUESTIONS:
            57.Why won't you, Christian reader, come to hear and learn of the
            true religion of Jesus?
            58.Have you, as a Christian, learned of Islam and if so, was it from
            the true Muslims?
            59.As a Christian, do you agree that out of fairness and honesty you
            must investigate what Islam says about God, Jesus, including this
            life and the hereafter?
            60.Being a Christian, do you also believe that we must all stand
            accountable to our Creator and that the Creator is perfect and just?
            As a sincere believer in God, don't you owe it upon yourself to find
            out the entire unadulterated truth regardless of the consequences?




            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com



            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • lauries@aros.net
            Wasn t this original message posted to the list before the 9/11 tragedy? If so, could there possibly be some link between the message sender and the criminal
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 18, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              Wasn't this original message posted to the list before the 9/11 tragedy?
              If so, could there possibly be some link between the message sender and the
              criminal perpetrators? And if there exists this possibility, should this info
              be given to the proper authorities for investigation?

              Just a thought.



              Quoting david a smith <david.a.smith@...>:

              > Last week, four American planes were hijacked- two were deliberately
              flown
              > into the World Trade Center, one into the Pentagon, the last crashed into a
              > field in Pennsylvania. Supposedly, this was the work of Muslim extremists,
              > for reasons unclear. No words can express how appalled I am at the work of
              > these terrorists, nor can any words express the grief endured by those who
              > lost loved ones or friends in this calamity.
              > Sunday night, I returned home from abroad to find my country under
              attack.
              > (My flight to the USA had been delayed three days, but that's another
              > story.) Monday afternoon, while reading through SRS emails (about 200!), I
              > found that my faith as a Christian is also under attack, though indirectly.
              > Why was this message posted to a robotics group, of all places? Please
              > tell
              > me, that this posting had nothing to do with the terrorist attacks which
              > occurred on the 11th. However, I find the below two quotes, from the
              > original posting, quite troubling.
              >
              > Then, as for those who believed and did good works, unto them will He
              > give them their wages in full, adding unto them of His bounty; and as
              > for those who were scornful and proud, then He will punish with a
              > painful doom." (Al-Qur'an 4:171-173).
              >
              > O you who believe! Lo! Many of the (Jewish) rabbis and the
              > (Christian) monks devour the wealth of mankind wantonly and debar
              > (people) from the way of Allah. They who hoard up gold and silver and
              > spend it not in the way of Allah, unto them give tidings (O Muhammad)
              > of a painful doom.
              > On the Day when it will (all) be heated in the fire of Hell, and
              > their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be branded
              > therewith (and it will be said unto them): Here is that which you
              > hoarded for yourselves. Now taste of what you used to hoard." (Al-
              > Qur'an 9:30-35).
              >
              > To whomever originally posted the below "60 Questions For The
              Christians",
              > please tell me that you denounce these kinds of barbaric attacks on
              > innocent
              > people. If Allah is the true God, shouldn't he be able to punish those who
              > reject him, without resorting to help from his followers, and to terrorist
              > methods? Even so, as a Christian, I am compelled to follow my God's
              > command
              > in Romans 12:14 "Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse."
              >
              > I would love to be able to answer any sincere questions you may have
              about
              > my faith as a Christian. First, though, I would like to direct you to the
              > below web page, which has many links explaining Islam, and the differences
              > between Islam and Christianity.
              > http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/i07.html
              > The link below may help to clear up your "60 Questions For The Christians".
              > http://debate.org.uk/topics/apolog/contrads.htm
              >
              > Above all, however, let's move this religious discussion off of a email
              > group for robots, and unite together, regardless of religious conviction,
              > against these terrorist crimes against humanity. My apologies for writing
              > such a long-winded reply to such an off-topic posting.
              >
              > Sincerely,
              > David Smith
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: frnas4@... [mailto:frnas4@...]
              > Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 4:43 PM
              > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] 60 Questions For The Christians
              >
              >
              >
              > 60 Questions For The Christians
              >
              >
              > TRINITY
              > According to most Christians, Jesus was God incarnate, full man and
              > full God. Can the finite and the infinite be one? "To be full" God
              > means freedom from finite forms and from helplessness, and to
              > be "full man" means the absence of divinity.
              > 1.To be son is to be less than divine and to be divine is to be no
              > one's son. How could Jesus have the attributes of son ship and
              > divinity altogether?
              > 2.Christians assert that Jesus claimed to be God when they quote him
              > in John 14:9: "He that has seen me has seen the Father". Didn't Jesus
              > clearly say that people have never seen God, as it says in John
              > 5:37: "And the father himself which Has sent me, has borne witness of
              > me. You have NEITHER HEARD HIS VOICE AT ANY TIME NOR SEEN HIS SHAPE"?
              > 3.Christians say that Jesus was God because he was called Son of God,
              > Son of Man, Messiah, and "savior". Ezekiel was addressed in the Bible
              > as Son of Man. Jesus spoke of "the peace makers" as Sons of God. Any
              > person who followed the Will and Plan of God was called SON OF GOD in
              > the Jewish tradition and in their language (Genesis 6:2,4; Exodus
              > 4:22; Psalm 2:7; Romans 8:14). "Messiah" which in Hebrew means "God's
              > anointed" and not "Christ", and "Cyrus" the person is
              > called "Messiah" or "the anointed". As for "savior", in II KINGS
              > 13:5, other individuals were given that title too without being gods.
              > So where is the proof in these terms that Jesus was God when the word
              > son is not exclusively used for him alone?
              > 4.Christians claim that Jesus acknowledged that he and God were one
              > in the sense of nature when he says in John 10:30 "I and my father
              > are one". Later on in John 17:21-23, Jesus refers to his followers
              > and himself and God as one in five places. So why did they give the
              > previous "one" a different meaning from the other five "ones?
              > 5.Is God three-in-one and one in three simultaneously or one at a
              > time?
              > 6.If God is one and three simultaneously, then none of the three
              > could be the complete God. Granting that such was the case, then when
              > Jesus was on earth, he wasn't a complete God, nor was the "father in
              > Heaven" a whole God. Doesn't that contradict what Jesus always said
              > about His God and our God in heaven, his Lord and our Lord? Does that
              > also mean that there was no complete god then, between the claimed
              > crucifixion and the claimed resurrection?
              > 7.If God is one and three at a time, then who was the God in heaven
              > when Jesus was on earth? Wouldn't this contradict his many references
              > to a God in Heaven that sent him?
              > 8.If God is three and one at the same time, who was the God in Heaven
              > within three days between the claimed crucifixion and the claimed
              > resurrect ion?
              > 9.Christians say that: "The Father (F) is God, the Son (S) is God,
              > and the Holy Ghost (H) is God, but the Father is not the Son, the Son
              > is not the Holy Ghost, and the Holy Ghost is not the Father". In
              > simple arithmetic and terms therefore, if F = G, S = G, and H = G,
              > then it follows that F = S = H, while the second part of the
              > statement suggests that F � S � H (meaning, "not equal"). Isn't that
              > a contradiction to the Christian dogma of Trinity in itself?
              > 10.If Jesus was God, why did he tell the man who called him "good
              > master" not to call him "good" because accordingly, there is none
              > good but his God in Heaven alone?
              > 11.Why do Christians say that God is three-in-one and one in three
              > when Jesus says in Mark 12:29: "The Lord our God is one Lord" in as
              > many places as yet in the Bible?
              > 12.If belief in the Trinity was such a necessary condition for being
              > a Christian, why didn't Jesus teach and emphasize it to the
              > Christians during his time? How were those followers of Jesus
              > considered Christians without ever hearing the term Trinity? Had the
              > Trinity been the spinal cord of Christianity, Jesus would have
              > emphasized it on many occasions and would have taught and explained
              > it in detail to the people.
              > 13.Christians claim that Jesus was God as they quote in John 1:1 "In
              > the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
              > was God". This is John speaking and not Jesus. Also, the Greek word
              > for the first occurrence of God is HOTHEOS which means "the God"
              > or "God" with a capital "G", while the Greek word for its second
              > occurrence is "TONTHEOS", which means "a god " or "god" with a
              > small "g". Isn't this dishonesty and inconsistency on the part of
              > those translating the Greek Bible? ? Isn't such quotation in John 1:1
              > recognized by every Christian scholar of the Bible to have been
              > written by a Jew named Philo Alexandria way before Jesus and John?
              > 14.Wasn't the word "god" or "TONTHEOS" also used to refer to others
              > as well as in II Corinthians 4:4 "(and the Devil is) the god of this
              > world" and in Exodus 7:1 "See, I have made thee (Moses) a god to
              > Pharaoh"?
              >
              > SALVATION:
              > Christians say that "GOD LOST His only son to save us". To whom did
              > God lose Jesus if he owns the whole universe?
              > 15. If it was agreeable with God's Majesty to have sons, He could
              > have created a million sons the like of Jesus. So what is the big
              > clear deal about this only son?
              > 16.Why does the Bible say that Jesus wanted to die on the cross, when
              > the one on the cross was shouting "My God, my God, why have you
              > forsaken me?" according to Matthew 27:45 and Mark 15:33?
              > 17. If God had wanted to save us, couldn't He have done that without
              > sacrificing Jesus?
              > 18. God is Just, and justice requires that nobody should be punished
              > for the sins of others, nor should some people be saved by punishing
              > other people. Doesn't the claim that God sacrificed Jesus to save us
              > because He was Just, contradict the definition of justice?
              > 19. People sacrifice things they have to get something they don't
              > have when they can't have both. Christians say "God SACRIFICED His
              > only son to save us". We know that God is Almighty; to whom did He
              > sacrifice Jesus?
              > 20. A real sacrifice is when you can't get back what you have
              > offered, so what would be the big deal about such a sacrifice if God
              > could recover the same offering? (According to the Christians'
              > terminology)?
              > 21. If all the Christians are saved through Jesus and are going to
              > Heaven no matter what they do, then the teachings of Jesus are
              > irrelevant and the definition of good and bad are also rendered
              > irrelevant. If this is not so, then do Christians who believe in
              > Jesus yet do not follow his teachings nor repent go to Hell?
              > 22. How can Christians take deeds as irrelevant after becoming one
              > when Jesus says in Matthew 12:36; "But I say unto you that every idle
              > word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the Day
              > of Judgment. For by the words thou shalt be justified, and by the
              > words thou shalt be condemned"?
              > 23. Christians say that people go to Heaven ONLY THROUGH JESUS, yet
              > Paul says in 1 CORINTHIANS 7:8-16 that the unbelieving husband is
              > acceptable to God because he is united with his wife and vice versa,
              > and their pagan children are also acceptable to God. So people can go
              > to heaven without believing in Jesus according to this.
              > 24. How come the Bible says that ALL Israel is saved although they
              > don't believe in Jesus? Doesn't that contradict the claim in the
              > Bible that the only way to heaven is through Jesus?
              > 25. According to Christians, those who have not been baptized will go
              > to Hell. So even the infants and babies go to Hell if not baptized,
              > since they are born with an inherited original sin. Doesn't this
              > contradict the definition of justice? Why would God punish people for
              > sins they never committed?
              >
              >
              > HOLY SPIRIT:
              > The only place in the Bible where the Paraclete was called the Holy
              > Spirit is in John 14:26 "But the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, whom the
              > Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring
              > to your remembrance all that I have said to you". What has the Holy
              > Spirit brought or taught for the last 2000 years?
              >
              > 26.Christians say that the Paraclete means the Holy Spirit (John 14;
              > 26). Jesus said in John 16:7-8 "If I do not go away the Paraclete
              > will not come to you". This could not mean the Holy spirit, since the
              > Holy spirit was said to have been there before Jesus was even born as
              > in Luke 1:41 "Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit". Here, the
              > Holy Spirit was also present during Jesus lifetime. So how could this
              > fit with the condition that Jesus must go away so that the Holy
              > Spirit will come?
              > 27.In John 16:7-8, it says: "But if go, I will send him to you. And
              > when he comes, he will convict the world of sins and of righteousness
              > and of Judgment". What do "he" and "him" refer here? Don't they refer
              > to a man?
              > 28.Does the Holy Spirit talk to good Christians and bad Christians as
              > well? Is the Holy spirit with them all the time or just at certain
              > times? When does it start visiting a person who wants to become a
              > Christian?
              > 29.How can you as a Christian tell if the Holy Spirit is inside
              > another Christian? How come many Christians fooled people by claiming
              > that the Holy Spirit was inside them only to be converted to another
              > religion later on?
              > 30.Does the Holy Spirit dictate what Christians should do without
              > choice or freedom at all or does it only guide them and they have the
              > freedom to follow or not?
              > 31.If the Holy Spirit dictates what Christian should do, why do
              > Christians commit sins and make mistakes? How can you explain the
              > conversion to other religions and atheism of many Christians? Are
              > they told to do that by the Holy Spirit?
              > 32.If the Holy Spirit guides Christians only, and they are free to do
              > what they want, then how do we know that the writers of the Gospels
              > didn't make mistakes in writing them?
              > 33.If Christians believe that the Holy Spirit comes and talks to them
              > everyday, why don't they ask the Holy Spirit about which version of
              > the Bible to follow since there are too many versions floating
              > around?
              >
              > MISSION OF JESUS:
              > Without borrowing from other religions and systems, can Christianity
              > provide people with a complete way of life? Since Christianity is
              > limited to spiritual life and does not provide law, how can a society
              > decide which laws are right or wrong?
              > 34.Why do the Christians say that Jesus came with a universal mission
              > when he said that he was sent to the Jews only? He said to the
              > Canaanite woman who asked him to heal her daughter from demon-
              > possession: "I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel" and also
              > said: "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to
              > their dogs", Matthew 15:21-28.
              >
              > RESSURECTION:
              > If you read Matthew (28:1-10), Mark (16:1-20), Luke (24:1-12), and
              > John (20: 1-18), you will find contradicting stories. They all agreed
              > that the tomb was guarded for three days. However, they reported the
              > discovery of the empty tomb differently.
              > � Matthew (28) and John (20) reported that Mary Magdalene and
              > the other Mary were the first to discover the tomb.
              > � Mark (16) reports that Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of
              > James, and Salome were the first to discover the empty tomb.
              > � Mark (28) reports that there was an earthquake that removed
              > the rock from over the tomb. He says that an angel caused it. The
              > other gospels do not mention of an earthquake.
              > � Matthew and Mark say that only ONE man in white clothes was
              > sitting on the tomb when the woman arrived, and that he was an angel.
              > � Luke says that TWO men in white clothes, who were angels,
              > were sitting. Johns says that the two women did not meet anybody the
              > first time they came to the tomb, but when they returned, they saw
              > TWO people, ONE was an ANGEL, and the other was JESUS.
              > � Matthew reports that when the guards reported this to the
              > chief priest, the chief priest paid them a large sum of money,
              > telling them: "You have to say that his disciples came at night and
              > stole his body." He claims that the soldiers took money and spread
              > the story around and since then, the story had been circulating among
              > the Jews until today (according to Matthew). The other gospels do not
              > report of any such thing.
              > 35. Which narration now is more authentic?
              > 36.Why is the appearance of Jesus after the crucifixion taken as a
              > proof of his resurrection when there is an explanation that he was
              > not dead because someone else was crucified in his place when God
              > saved Him?
              > 37.How did Matthew know of the claimed agreement between the soldiers
              > and the chief priest? Can't someone say that someone paid the women a
              > large sum of money and told them to spread the word around that Jesus
              > rose from the dead, with the same authenticity as that of the story
              > of Matthew?
              > 38.Why did they believe that man in the white clothes? Why did they
              > believe he was an angel? John's narration is too strange, since he
              > says that Mary did not recognize Jesus (one of the two) while talking
              > to him, and she only recognized him when he called her by her name.
              > 39.How does an empty tomb prove that Jesus was crucified? Isn't it
              > that God is capable of removing another man from the tomb, and of
              > resurrecting him too?
              > 40.The Gospels are believed to be the verbatim words of God; they are
              > supposed to be dictated by the Holy Spirit to the Disciples who wrote
              > them. If the source were the same, why shouldn't they correspond with
              > each other in reporting such an important event?
              > 41.How could Matthew, Mark, Luke and John be considered eyewitnesses
              > of resurrection when the Bible implies that nobody at all saw Jesus
              > coming out of the tomb?
              >
              > BIBLE:
              > If the Christians consider the Old Testament as God's Word, why did
              > they cancel the parts of the Old Testament that dealt with punishment
              > (example: the punishment for adultery)?
              > 42.Why doesn't Mark 16:9-20 exist in as many versions of the Bible
              > while it exists as a footnote or between brackets in some other
              > versions? Is a footnote in the Bible still considered as God's word,
              > especially when it addresses an important feature like the Ascension?
              > 43.Why does the Catholic Bible contain 73 books while the Protestant
              > Bible has only 66? With both claiming to have the complete Word of
              > God, which one should be believed and why?
              > 44.Where do those new translations of the Bible keep coming from when
              > the original Bible is not even available? The Greek manuscripts that
              > are translations them selves are not even similar with each other.
              > 45.How can you take two gospels from writers who never met Jesus,
              > like Mark and Luke?
              > 46.Why is half of the New Testament written by a man who never even
              > met Jesus in his lifetime? PAUL claimed with no proof that he had met
              > Jesus while on his way from Jerusalem to Damascus. PAUL was the main
              > enemy of Christianity. Isn't that reason enough to question the
              > authenticity of what he wrote? Why do the Christians call those books
              > of the Old Testament "God's Word" when the revisers of the RSV Bible
              > say that some of the authors are UNKNOWN? They say that the author of
              > SAMUEL is "UNKNOWN" and that of CHRONICLES is "UNKOWN, PROBABLY
              > COLLECTED AND EDITED BY EZRA"!
              >
              > CONTRADICTIONS:
              > 47.Concerning the controversial issues in the Bible, how can
              > Christians decide by two-thirds majority what is God's Word and what
              > is not, as the prefaces of some Bibles say like that one of the RSV?
              > 48.Why does Luke in his gospel report the Ascension on Easter Day,
              > and in the Acts, in which he is recognized as the author, FORTY days
              > later?
              > 49.The genealogy of Jesus is mentioned in Matthew and Luke only.
              > Matthew listed 26 forefathers from Joseph to David while Luke
              > enumerated 41 forefathers. Only Joseph matches with Joseph in those
              > two lists. Not a single other name matches! If these were inspired by
              > God word by word, how could they be different? Some claim that one is
              > for Mary and one is for Joseph, but where does it say Mary in those
              > two Gospels?
              > 50.If Moses wrote the first books of the Old Testament, how could
              > Moses write his own obituary? Moses died in the fifth book at age 120
              > as mentioned in Deut. 34:5-10.
              > 51.In the King James Version, why does it report SEVEN years of
              > famine in II SAMUEL 24:13 while it reports THREE years of famine in I
              > CHRONICLES 21:12? Why did they change both to THREE years in the New
              > International Version and other versions?
              > 52.Still In the same King James Version, why does it say that
              > Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign in II
              > CHRONICLES 21:12, while it says EIGHTEEN years in II KINGS 24:8? Why
              > did thessey change in both to EIGHTEEN in the new Versions?
              > 53.In all versions, why does it say that David slew the men of SEVEN
              > HUNDRED chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand HORSEMEN as
              > evidenced in II Samuel 10:18 while its says SEVEN THOUSAND men which
              > fought in chariots, and forty thousand FOOTMEN, in I CHRONICLES
              > 19:18?
              > 54.In all versions, why does it report TWO thousand baths in I KINGS
              > 7:26 while II CHRONICLES 4:5 reports THREE THOUSAND?
              > 55.In the King James version, why does it report that Solomon had
              > FOUR THOUSAND stalls for horses in II CHRONICLES 9:25 while it
              > accounts that Solomon had FORTY THOUSAND stalls of horses in 1 KINGS
              > 4:26? Why did they change both to FOUR THOUSAND in the new versions?
              > 56.In GENESIS 1, God's creation progresses from grass to trees to
              > fowls, whales, cattle and creeping things and finally to man and
              > woman. GENESIS 2, however, puts the creation of man before cattle and
              > fowl and woman subsequent to beast. How can this be explained?
              > QUR'AN AND CHRISTIANS
              > This section does not inquire or interrogate, but rather provides the
              > reader with some of the Qur'anic verses that address the Christians
              > in particular, and the people of the scripture in general. A great
              > portion of the Qur'an pertains to or involves the Christians and the
              > Jews and I decided to just choose verses that are related to the
              > topic of this manuscript.
              >
              > � "Lo! The likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of
              > Adam. He created him of dust, then said unto him: Be, and he was." Al-
              > Qur'an 3:59.
              > � "Say: O People of the Scripture! Come to an agreement between
              > us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall
              > ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others
              > for Lords besides Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear
              > witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto him).
              > "O People of the Scripture! Why will you argue about Abraham, when
              > the Torah and the Gospel were revealed till after him? Have you then
              > no sense?
              > Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was an upright man
              > who had surrendered (to Allah), and he was not of the idolaters.
              > Lo! Those of mankind who have the best claim to Abraham are those who
              > followed him, and his Prophet and those who believe (with him); and
              > Allah is the Protector of the believers.
              > A party of the People of the Scripture longs to make you go astray;
              > and they make none to go astray except themselves, but they perceive
              > not.
              > O People of the Scripture! Why disbelieve you in the revelations of
              > Allah, when you (yourselves) bear witness to their truth?
              > O People of the Scriptures! Why confound you truth with falsehood and
              > knowingly conceal the Truth? (Al-Qur'an 3: 64-71)
              > � And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never
              > be accepted of him and in the hereafter, He will be one of the losers
              > (Al-Qur'an 3:85).
              > � And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah Jesus, son
              > of Mary, and Allah's messenger. They slew him not nor crucified him,
              > but it appeared so unto them, and Lo! Those who disagree concerning
              > it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit
              > of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain:
              > But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise. (Al-
              > Qur'an 4:157-158).
              > � O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion
              > nor utter ought concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah Jesus
              > son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He
              > conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him, so believe in Allah and
              > His messengers, and say not "Three"! Cease! (It is) better for you!
              > Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent
              > majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens
              > and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as defender.
              > The Messiah will never scorn to be a slave unto Allah, nor will the
              > favored angels. Whosoever scorns His service and is proud, all such
              > will assemble unto Him.
              > Then, as for those who believed and did good works, unto them will He
              > give them their wages in full, adding unto them of His bounty; and as
              > for those who were scornful and proud, then He will punish with a
              > painful doom." (Al-Qur'an 4:171-173).
              > � "And with those who say Lo! We are Christians, We made a
              > covenant, but they forgot a part of that whereof they were
              > admonished. Therefore we have stirred up enmity and hatred among them
              > till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will inform them of their
              > handiwork.
              > O People of the Scripture! Now has our messenger come unto you,
              > expounding unto you much of that which you used to hide in the
              > Scripture, and forgiving much. Now has come unto light from Allah and
              > plain scripture:
              > Whereby Allah guides him who seeks His good pleasure unto paths of
              > peace, He brings them out of darkness unto light by His decree, and
              > guides them unto a Straight Path.
              > They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the messiah, son
              > of Mary. Say: Who then can do aught against Allah if he had willed to
              > destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother and everyone on
              > earth? Allah's is the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and
              > all that is between them. He creates what he wills. And Allah is able
              > to do all things. (Al-Qur'an 5:14:17).
              > � "They surely disbelieve who say; lo! Allah is the Messiah,
              > son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O children if Israel,
              > worship Allah, my Lord and you Lord. Lo! Whosoever ascribes partners
              > unto Allah, for him Allah has forbidden Paradise. His abode is the
              > Fire. For evildoers, there will be no helpers.
              > They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of the three;
              > when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so
              > saying, a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve.
              > Will they not rather turn unto Allah and seek forgiveness of Him? For
              > Allah is oft-forgiving, most merciful.
              > Say: Serve you in place of Allah that which possesses for you neither
              > hurt nor use? Allah is the Hearer, the Knower.
              > Say: O People of the Scripture! Stress not in your religion other
              > than the Truth, and follow not the vain desire of folks who erred of
              > old and led many astray, and erred from a plain road." (Al-Qur'an
              > 5:72-77)
              > � "And when Allah says: O Jesus, son of Mary: Did you say unto
              > mankind: take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? He says: Be
              > glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If
              > I used to say it, then You Knew it, you know what is in my mind, and
              > I know not what is in your mind. Lo! You, only you, are the knower of
              > things hidden.
              > I spoke unto them only that which you commanded me (saying); worship
              > Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I witness of them while I dwelt among
              > them, and when you took me, you were the Watcher over them. You are
              > witness over all things.
              > If you punish them, lo! They are your slaves, and if you forgive them
              > (Lo! They are your slaves). Lo! You, only you are the Mighty, the
              > Wise.
              > Allah says: This is a day in which their truthfulness profits the
              > truthful, for theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow,
              > wherein they are secure forever, Allah taking pleasure in them and
              > they in Him. That is the great triumph. (Al-Qur'an 5:116-119)
              > � "And the Jews say: `Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah', and
              > the Christians say: `The Messiah is the son of Allah'. That is their
              > saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who
              > disbelieved of old. Allah fights against them. How perverse they are!
              > They have taken as Lord besides Allah their rabbis and their monks
              > and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only
              > One God. There is no God save Him. Be He glorified from all that they
              > ascribe as partners (unto him)!
              > Faint would they put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but
              > Allah disdains (aught) save that He shall perfect His light, however
              > much the disbelievers are averse.
              > He it is Who has sent His messenger with guidance and the Religion of
              > Truth, to cause it to prevail over all religions, however much the
              > idolaters may be averse.
              > O you who believe! Lo! Many of the (Jewish) rabbis and the
              > (Christian) monks devour the wealth of mankind wantonly and debar
              > (people) from the way of Allah. They who hoard up gold and silver and
              > spend it not in the way of Allah, unto them give tidings (O Muhammad)
              > of a painful doom.
              > On the Day when it will (all) be heated in the fire of Hell, and
              > their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be branded
              > therewith (and it will be said unto them): Here is that which you
              > hoarded for yourselves. Now taste of what you used to hoard." (Al-
              > Qur'an 9:30-35).
              >
              > MUHAMMAD OR JESUS?
              > Christians claim that the prophecy in Deut. 18:18 refers to Jesus and
              > not Muhammad. The verse says: "I will raise them up a prophet from
              > among THEIR BRETHREN, LIKE UNTO THEE, and I will put my words in his
              > mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
              > The only reason they resort to such interpretation is that both Moses
              > and Jesus were prophets. Even this one contradicts their claim that
              > Jesus was God and not a Prophet. Many prophets of the Jews had the
              > similarity with Moses. However, if we compare Muhammad to Moses, we
              > will find that:
              > Muhammad was an Arab, and the Arabs are from Ishmael, son of Abraham,
              > while Moses was a Jew, and the Jews are from Isaac, son of Abraham.
              > Hence, the term THEIR BRETHREN refers to the children of the first
              > son being brethren of the children of the other. This couldn't apply
              > to Jesus, since he was a Jew.
              > According to the Christians, Jesus went to Hell for three days while
              > Moses did not. Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses. (In Islam, none of
              > the three Prophets went to Hell)
              > Moses and Muhammad were born to fathers and mothers while Jesus was
              > born to a mother alone.
              > Moses and Muhammad got married and had children, while Jesus did not
              > marry at all.
              > Moses and Muhammad got problems and difficulties from their people
              > initially, but were accepted by them at the end., whereas Jesus was
              > rejected by his people at the start and is still rejected by the Jews
              > until today. "He (Jesus) came unto his own, but his own received him
              > not". (John 1:11)
              > Moses and Muhammad had power, besides being prophets. They both
              > performed some capital punishments, for example, while Jesus had no
              > power over his people. "My kingdom is not of this world", Jesus said
              > in John 18:36.
              > Moses and Muhammad brought new laws while Jesus did not.
              > Moses was forced to emigrate in adulthood to Median while Muhammad
              > was forced to emigrate at that stage in his life too, towards Madina.
              > Whereas Jesus did not have such forced emigration in his adulthood.
              > Moses and Muhammad both died of natural deaths after which they were
              > buried, while the same could not be said of Jesus. He was neither
              > killed nor crucified at all, according to the Qur'an and did not die
              > a `natural' death as could be affirmed by Christians who believe in
              > Crucifixion.
              > FINAL QUESTIONS:
              > 57.Why won't you, Christian reader, come to hear and learn of the
              > true religion of Jesus?
              > 58.Have you, as a Christian, learned of Islam and if so, was it from
              > the true Muslims?
              > 59.As a Christian, do you agree that out of fairness and honesty you
              > must investigate what Islam says about God, Jesus, including this
              > life and the hereafter?
              > 60.Being a Christian, do you also believe that we must all stand
              > accountable to our Creator and that the Creator is perfect and just?
              > As a sincere believer in God, don't you owe it upon yourself to find
              > out the entire unadulterated truth regardless of the consequences?
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.