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Re: [SeattleRobotics] BigDog flinging concrete blocks

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  • Peter Balch
    ... Absolutely. But we already knew that from the earlier videos: being kicked, slipping on ice, etc. Everyone has to be in awe of what Boston Dynamics is
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 3, 2013
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      > a fantastic demonstration of the dynamic stability of the robot.

      Absolutely. But we already knew that from the earlier videos: being kicked,
      slipping on ice, etc.

      Everyone has to be in awe of what Boston Dynamics is achieving but what they
      release to the media is always pure propaganda. It's not like a university
      project where they tell you in tedious detail what they're doing, how they
      do it and why they did it. It's more like trying to work out what was going
      on in the Soviet Union. I don't believe that's due to military secrecy - the
      military are often very keen to say what they're doing (in order to justify
      the taxpayers' dollars). BigDog is soooo far away from deployment there are
      no technical specs worth stealing. Commercial secrecy? Maybe. But is there
      any suggestion they're going to sell it to anyone else?

      > the L3 is aimed at being able to go places that tracked vehicles cannot
      > A legged robot would have the advantage of being able to navigate
      > over boulders or otherwise rocky terrain which would bog down
      > a tracked vehicle.

      Well, that's the propaganda. But they're nowhere close. IMHO, Jogging on
      flat ground throwing a concrete block is not on the route to picking your
      way down a rocky path in the mountains. Stepping over a log is slightly more
      useful but it's such a puny log it hardly counts. The gait they've chosen
      gives them very little ground clearance.

      And is that gait one you would use on a mountain path? It doesn't seem right
      to me. One can see the pedigree from Raibert's 1986 hopping bot to hopping
      on each corner of a quadruped. It sure looks like the same algorithm. Yes,
      it works in a car park - but on a mountain track? Is there anything that
      suggests that it will ever work? Not that I've seen.

      So why are the trying to "productize" it by building AlphaDog? Why give it
      longer range and greater power when the prototype doesn't do the job it's
      meant to do? It must be propaganda.

      As I say, watching Boston Dynamics is like watching the Soviet Union. The
      crumbs they give us hint at great things. But you wonder what's really going
      on.

      Peter
    • Pete Miles
      Flinging concrete bricks is a great development in dynamic stability control when a heavy load is suddenly removed. Throwing the brick is the easiest thing to
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 3, 2013
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        Flinging concrete bricks is a great development in dynamic stability control
        when a heavy load is suddenly removed. Throwing the brick is the easiest thing
        to do. Not falling over after the release is the major accomplishment.


        The one thing that is false advertizing (propaganda) is that this device will
        never be used to help offload weight off the troops. Unless you have been a
        grunt, you know what I am talking about.

        The dog is a weapons development platform for autonomous and remote control
        missions. The general public would have a fit if they knew that the military
        was building robotic killing machines.

        People are currently in a panic with the police considering on using drones in
        the sky, and they are extremely worried about the drones being armed. They are
        trying to create laws to make this practice illeagal.

        But the interesting this is that the Predator drone was designed from day one to
        carry weapons, but was originally deployed as a survalence drone. But when the
        need came up, the drones were quickly outfitted with the weapons. If the the
        public was aware of the original purpose, there would have been a much greater
        outcry.

        People complain about photo radar or the red light cameras. The complaints are
        from people intent on breaking the law and don't like impassioned machines
        catching them, and passing judgement on them and issuing citations.

        Now think about this. Armed robot dogs patrolling the border and are programmed
        to kill what ever crossed the border. People would be in an uproar about that.
        The robodog will execute its task without mercy. It will make no mistakes. It
        won't consider circumstances leading up to the border crossing. It will just
        execute it programming. People have compassion and often don't follow orders
        because they want to understand the circumstances leading up to the violation to
        self determine if they should carry out their instructions. Machines don't do
        that.

        This dog has nothing to do with carrying loads for troups in combat. It is
        strictly a weapons development platform.

        And guess what, I am 100% in support of these programs, and I think there needs
        to be more of them.
      • Max Cato
        Wow. Either there are some major conspiracy nuts out here, or I must learn the art of trolling from you, wizened master. ________________________________ From:
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 3, 2013
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          Wow. Either there are some major conspiracy nuts out here, or I must learn the art of trolling from you, wizened master.


          From: Pete Miles <robots@...>
          To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 2:03 PM
          Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] BigDog flinging concrete blocks

          Flinging concrete bricks is a great development in dynamic stability control
          when a heavy load is suddenly removed.  Throwing the brick is the easiest thing
          to do.  Not falling over after the release is the major accomplishment.


          The one thing that is false advertizing (propaganda) is that this device will
          never be used to help offload weight off the troops.  Unless you have been a
          grunt, you know what I am talking about.

          The dog is a weapons development platform for autonomous and remote control
          missions.  The general public would have a fit if they knew that the military
          was building robotic killing machines.

          People are currently in a panic with the police considering on using drones in
          the sky, and they are extremely worried about the drones being armed.  They are
          trying to create laws to make this practice illeagal.

          But the interesting this is that the Predator drone was designed from day one to
          carry weapons, but was originally deployed as a survalence drone.  But when the
          need came up, the drones were quickly outfitted with the weapons.  If the the
          public was aware of the original purpose, there would have been a much greater
          outcry.

          People complain about photo radar or the red light cameras.  The complaints are
          from people intent on breaking the law and don't like impassioned machines
          catching them, and passing judgement on them and issuing citations.

          Now think about this.  Armed robot dogs patrolling the border and are programmed
          to kill what ever crossed the border.  People would be in an uproar about that.
          The robodog will execute its task without mercy.  It will make no mistakes.  It
          won't consider circumstances leading up to the border crossing.  It will just
          execute it programming.  People have compassion and often don't follow orders
          because they want to understand the circumstances leading up to the violation to
          self determine if they should carry out their instructions.  Machines don't do
          that.

          This dog has nothing to do with carrying loads for troups in combat.  It is
          strictly a weapons development platform.

          And guess what, I am 100% in support of these programs, and I think there needs
          to be more of them.




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        • Pete Miles
          Grasshopper, when you can get the pebble out of my hand then you will be ready to troll yourself. All you have to do is read the right papers and reports and
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 3, 2013
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            Grasshopper, when you can get the pebble out of my hand then you will be ready to troll yourself.
             
            All you have to do is read the right papers and reports and you will know exactly what I am talking about.
             
            Pete 
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Max Cato
            Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 2:50 PM
            Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] BigDog flinging concrete blocks

            Wow. Either there are some major conspiracy nuts out here, or I must learn the art of trolling from you, wizened master.


            From: Pete Miles <robots@...>
            To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 2:03 PM
            Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] BigDog flinging concrete blocks

            Flinging concrete bricks is a great development in dynamic stability control
            when a heavy load is suddenly removed.  Throwing the brick is the easiest thing
            to do.  Not falling over after the release is the major accomplishment.


            The one thing that is false advertizing (propaganda) is that this device will
            never be used to help offload weight off the troops.  Unless you have been a
            grunt, you know what I am talking about.

            The dog is a weapons development platform for autonomous and remote control
            missions.  The general public would have a fit if they knew that the military
            was building robotic killing machines.

            People are currently in a panic with the police considering on using drones in
            the sky, and they are extremely worried about the drones being armed.  They are
            trying to create laws to make this practice illeagal.

            But the interesting this is that the Predator drone was designed from day one to
            carry weapons, but was originally deployed as a survalence drone.  But when the
            need came up, the drones were quickly outfitted with the weapons.  If the the
            public was aware of the original purpose, there would have been a much greater
            outcry.

            People complain about photo radar or the red light cameras.  The complaints are
            from people intent on breaking the law and don't like impassioned machines
            catching them, and passing judgement on them and issuing citations.

            Now think about this.  Armed robot dogs patrolling the border and are programmed
            to kill what ever crossed the border.  People would be in an uproar about that.
            The robodog will execute its task without mercy.  It will make no mistakes.  It
            won't consider circumstances leading up to the border crossing.  It will just
            execute it programming.  People have compassion and often don't follow orders
            because they want to understand the circumstances leading up to the violation to
            self determine if they should carry out their instructions.  Machines don't do
            that.

            This dog has nothing to do with carrying loads for troups in combat.  It is
            strictly a weapons development platform.

            And guess what, I am 100% in support of these programs, and I think there needs
            to be more of them.




            ------------------------------------

            Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups Links

            <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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