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Re: [SeattleRobotics] BigDog flinging concrete blocks

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  • twcarroll@...
    Both Jim and Mark understand why Big Dog was shown slinging concrete blocks. Marc Raibert and his team at Boston Dynamics have done what no other company has
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 2, 2013
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           Both Jim and Mark understand why Big Dog was shown slinging concrete blocks.  Marc Raibert and his team at Boston Dynamics have done what no other company has ever done.  Marc has long been the world's expert on dynamic balancing of legged robots, whether that be four, two or even one leg. 
           It is that dynamic stability and structural strength that makes their products stand out.  How many humans can sling a concrete block like that without falling over?  Big Dog and the other military walkers of BD have magnitudes of stability over tracked or wheeled vehicles on extremely uneven terrain.  I feel that the video was an excellent demonstration of the vehicle's overall potential usefulness in battlefield conditions.
           Tom C.
          
           If it was my design, and knowing BigDog's strength, I would want to demonstrate how strong the unit is. What a simple and clearly demonstrable test. Kind of leaves little doubt. Now what can I use this ability for? Time to imagine. 
           Save time ..... see it my way. - Jim A
       
           And while it is difficult to understand the utility of flinging concrete blocks, I found it to be a fantastic demonstration of the dynamic stability of the robot.
       
           Mark
    • Peter Balch
      ... Absolutely. But we already knew that from the earlier videos: being kicked, slipping on ice, etc. Everyone has to be in awe of what Boston Dynamics is
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 3, 2013
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        > a fantastic demonstration of the dynamic stability of the robot.

        Absolutely. But we already knew that from the earlier videos: being kicked,
        slipping on ice, etc.

        Everyone has to be in awe of what Boston Dynamics is achieving but what they
        release to the media is always pure propaganda. It's not like a university
        project where they tell you in tedious detail what they're doing, how they
        do it and why they did it. It's more like trying to work out what was going
        on in the Soviet Union. I don't believe that's due to military secrecy - the
        military are often very keen to say what they're doing (in order to justify
        the taxpayers' dollars). BigDog is soooo far away from deployment there are
        no technical specs worth stealing. Commercial secrecy? Maybe. But is there
        any suggestion they're going to sell it to anyone else?

        > the L3 is aimed at being able to go places that tracked vehicles cannot
        > A legged robot would have the advantage of being able to navigate
        > over boulders or otherwise rocky terrain which would bog down
        > a tracked vehicle.

        Well, that's the propaganda. But they're nowhere close. IMHO, Jogging on
        flat ground throwing a concrete block is not on the route to picking your
        way down a rocky path in the mountains. Stepping over a log is slightly more
        useful but it's such a puny log it hardly counts. The gait they've chosen
        gives them very little ground clearance.

        And is that gait one you would use on a mountain path? It doesn't seem right
        to me. One can see the pedigree from Raibert's 1986 hopping bot to hopping
        on each corner of a quadruped. It sure looks like the same algorithm. Yes,
        it works in a car park - but on a mountain track? Is there anything that
        suggests that it will ever work? Not that I've seen.

        So why are the trying to "productize" it by building AlphaDog? Why give it
        longer range and greater power when the prototype doesn't do the job it's
        meant to do? It must be propaganda.

        As I say, watching Boston Dynamics is like watching the Soviet Union. The
        crumbs they give us hint at great things. But you wonder what's really going
        on.

        Peter
      • Pete Miles
        Flinging concrete bricks is a great development in dynamic stability control when a heavy load is suddenly removed. Throwing the brick is the easiest thing to
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 3, 2013
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          Flinging concrete bricks is a great development in dynamic stability control
          when a heavy load is suddenly removed. Throwing the brick is the easiest thing
          to do. Not falling over after the release is the major accomplishment.


          The one thing that is false advertizing (propaganda) is that this device will
          never be used to help offload weight off the troops. Unless you have been a
          grunt, you know what I am talking about.

          The dog is a weapons development platform for autonomous and remote control
          missions. The general public would have a fit if they knew that the military
          was building robotic killing machines.

          People are currently in a panic with the police considering on using drones in
          the sky, and they are extremely worried about the drones being armed. They are
          trying to create laws to make this practice illeagal.

          But the interesting this is that the Predator drone was designed from day one to
          carry weapons, but was originally deployed as a survalence drone. But when the
          need came up, the drones were quickly outfitted with the weapons. If the the
          public was aware of the original purpose, there would have been a much greater
          outcry.

          People complain about photo radar or the red light cameras. The complaints are
          from people intent on breaking the law and don't like impassioned machines
          catching them, and passing judgement on them and issuing citations.

          Now think about this. Armed robot dogs patrolling the border and are programmed
          to kill what ever crossed the border. People would be in an uproar about that.
          The robodog will execute its task without mercy. It will make no mistakes. It
          won't consider circumstances leading up to the border crossing. It will just
          execute it programming. People have compassion and often don't follow orders
          because they want to understand the circumstances leading up to the violation to
          self determine if they should carry out their instructions. Machines don't do
          that.

          This dog has nothing to do with carrying loads for troups in combat. It is
          strictly a weapons development platform.

          And guess what, I am 100% in support of these programs, and I think there needs
          to be more of them.
        • Max Cato
          Wow. Either there are some major conspiracy nuts out here, or I must learn the art of trolling from you, wizened master. ________________________________ From:
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 3, 2013
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            Wow. Either there are some major conspiracy nuts out here, or I must learn the art of trolling from you, wizened master.


            From: Pete Miles <robots@...>
            To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 2:03 PM
            Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] BigDog flinging concrete blocks

            Flinging concrete bricks is a great development in dynamic stability control
            when a heavy load is suddenly removed.  Throwing the brick is the easiest thing
            to do.  Not falling over after the release is the major accomplishment.


            The one thing that is false advertizing (propaganda) is that this device will
            never be used to help offload weight off the troops.  Unless you have been a
            grunt, you know what I am talking about.

            The dog is a weapons development platform for autonomous and remote control
            missions.  The general public would have a fit if they knew that the military
            was building robotic killing machines.

            People are currently in a panic with the police considering on using drones in
            the sky, and they are extremely worried about the drones being armed.  They are
            trying to create laws to make this practice illeagal.

            But the interesting this is that the Predator drone was designed from day one to
            carry weapons, but was originally deployed as a survalence drone.  But when the
            need came up, the drones were quickly outfitted with the weapons.  If the the
            public was aware of the original purpose, there would have been a much greater
            outcry.

            People complain about photo radar or the red light cameras.  The complaints are
            from people intent on breaking the law and don't like impassioned machines
            catching them, and passing judgement on them and issuing citations.

            Now think about this.  Armed robot dogs patrolling the border and are programmed
            to kill what ever crossed the border.  People would be in an uproar about that.
            The robodog will execute its task without mercy.  It will make no mistakes.  It
            won't consider circumstances leading up to the border crossing.  It will just
            execute it programming.  People have compassion and often don't follow orders
            because they want to understand the circumstances leading up to the violation to
            self determine if they should carry out their instructions.  Machines don't do
            that.

            This dog has nothing to do with carrying loads for troups in combat.  It is
            strictly a weapons development platform.

            And guess what, I am 100% in support of these programs, and I think there needs
            to be more of them.




            ------------------------------------

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          • Pete Miles
            Grasshopper, when you can get the pebble out of my hand then you will be ready to troll yourself. All you have to do is read the right papers and reports and
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 3, 2013
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              Grasshopper, when you can get the pebble out of my hand then you will be ready to troll yourself.
               
              All you have to do is read the right papers and reports and you will know exactly what I am talking about.
               
              Pete 
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Max Cato
              Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 2:50 PM
              Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] BigDog flinging concrete blocks

              Wow. Either there are some major conspiracy nuts out here, or I must learn the art of trolling from you, wizened master.


              From: Pete Miles <robots@...>
              To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 2:03 PM
              Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] BigDog flinging concrete blocks

              Flinging concrete bricks is a great development in dynamic stability control
              when a heavy load is suddenly removed.  Throwing the brick is the easiest thing
              to do.  Not falling over after the release is the major accomplishment.


              The one thing that is false advertizing (propaganda) is that this device will
              never be used to help offload weight off the troops.  Unless you have been a
              grunt, you know what I am talking about.

              The dog is a weapons development platform for autonomous and remote control
              missions.  The general public would have a fit if they knew that the military
              was building robotic killing machines.

              People are currently in a panic with the police considering on using drones in
              the sky, and they are extremely worried about the drones being armed.  They are
              trying to create laws to make this practice illeagal.

              But the interesting this is that the Predator drone was designed from day one to
              carry weapons, but was originally deployed as a survalence drone.  But when the
              need came up, the drones were quickly outfitted with the weapons.  If the the
              public was aware of the original purpose, there would have been a much greater
              outcry.

              People complain about photo radar or the red light cameras.  The complaints are
              from people intent on breaking the law and don't like impassioned machines
              catching them, and passing judgement on them and issuing citations.

              Now think about this.  Armed robot dogs patrolling the border and are programmed
              to kill what ever crossed the border.  People would be in an uproar about that.
              The robodog will execute its task without mercy.  It will make no mistakes.  It
              won't consider circumstances leading up to the border crossing.  It will just
              execute it programming.  People have compassion and often don't follow orders
              because they want to understand the circumstances leading up to the violation to
              self determine if they should carry out their instructions.  Machines don't do
              that.

              This dog has nothing to do with carrying loads for troups in combat.  It is
              strictly a weapons development platform.

              And guess what, I am 100% in support of these programs, and I think there needs
              to be more of them.




              ------------------------------------

              Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups Links

              <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SeattleRobotics/

              <*> Your email settings:
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                  SeattleRobotics-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

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