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Re: [SeattleRobotics] Laptop with 2 USB Cards

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  • Xandon Frogget
    jamericanfreddy, I was very hopeful of this idea a little while ago myself. My old laptop has an express card slot, so easy peasy I thought, but I have not
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 13, 2012
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      jamericanfreddy,
      I was very hopeful of this idea a little while ago myself. My old laptop has an express card slot, so "easy peasy" I thought, but I have not had the best of luck chasing this concept down. I do now own and will bring to the next SRS meeting a USB 3.0 express card, a USB 2.0 express card and a Firewire/USB Hub if anyone is interested in trade/purchasing. They are all new and fresh out of their packaging. I have not given up on it completely however and I have one last USB 2.0 express card ordered that explicitly states it is rated for 650mA capacity, but I am not holding my breath. 

      I have 2 laptops currently that both have 2 USB controllers, but they do not work as one would hope. They are both Macbook Pro's: the older one is a 2.4 ghz Intel Core 2 Duo and the newer one is a 2.3 ghz Intel Core i7. Tested in both OS X and Windows XP. I am not looking to use macbook pro's for what I need they are just what I have. I can only speculate as to why they do not work.

      Realistically I am looking to see if someone has a proven model that is working with 2 kinects or 2 xtion pro's. If so, I would be very interested to know what laptop hardware they have been able to get it to work on.

      thanks
      Xandon Frogget
      Daddio Robotics

      On Dec 13, 2012, at 4:48 AM, jamericanfreddy wrote:

      if your laptop has a PCMCIA slot you can get a usb adapter card for it

    • David Shoemaker
      I will ask the Kinect team if they have any recommendations. Plus of working at ms :)
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 13, 2012
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        I will ask the Kinect team if they have any recommendations.  Plus of working at ms :)

        From: Xandon Frogget
        Sent: 12/13/2012 7:06 AM
        To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Laptop with 2 USB Cards

         

        jamericanfreddy,
        I was very hopeful of this idea a little while ago myself. My old laptop has an express card slot, so "easy peasy" I thought, but I have not had the best of luck chasing this concept down. I do now own and will bring to the next SRS meeting a USB 3.0 express card, a USB 2.0 express card and a Firewire/USB Hub if anyone is interested in trade/purchasing. They are all new and fresh out of their packaging. I have not given up on it completely however and I have one last USB 2.0 express card ordered that explicitly states it is rated for 650mA capacity, but I am not holding my breath. 

        I have 2 laptops currently that both have 2 USB controllers, but they do not work as one would hope. They are both Macbook Pro's: the older one is a 2.4 ghz Intel Core 2 Duo and the newer one is a 2.3 ghz Intel Core i7. Tested in both OS X and Windows XP. I am not looking to use macbook pro's for what I need they are just what I have. I can only speculate as to why they do not work.

        Realistically I am looking to see if someone has a proven model that is working with 2 kinects or 2 xtion pro's. If so, I would be very interested to know what laptop hardware they have been able to get it to work on.

        thanks
        Xandon Frogget
        Daddio Robotics

        On Dec 13, 2012, at 4:48 AM, jamericanfreddy wrote:

        if your laptop has a PCMCIA slot you can get a usb adapter card for it


        [The entire original message is not included.]
      • jamericanfreddy
        I saw your baby carriage design it has 2 KINECTS instead why not use LIDAR like the one that NEATO XV-11 has,i have alot for sale. Second here is another idea
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 14, 2012
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          I saw your baby carriage design it has 2 KINECTS instead why not use LIDAR like the one that NEATO XV-11 has,i have alot for sale.

          Second here is another idea that alot of robot designs are using 2 or more computers in a network,easy to add PICO-ITX PX10000G very small size and very low current and use usb port from that.

          --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Xandon Frogget <xandon@...> wrote:
          >
          > jamericanfreddy,
          > I was very hopeful of this idea a little while ago myself. My old laptop has an express card slot, so "easy peasy" I thought, but I have not had the best of luck chasing this concept down. I do now own and will bring to the next SRS meeting a USB 3.0 express card, a USB 2.0 express card and a Firewire/USB Hub if anyone is interested in trade/purchasing. They are all new and fresh out of their packaging. I have not given up on it completely however and I have one last USB 2.0 express card ordered that explicitly states it is rated for 650mA capacity, but I am not holding my breath.
          >
          > I have 2 laptops currently that both have 2 USB controllers, but they do not work as one would hope. They are both Macbook Pro's: the older one is a 2.4 ghz Intel Core 2 Duo and the newer one is a 2.3 ghz Intel Core i7. Tested in both OS X and Windows XP. I am not looking to use macbook pro's for what I need they are just what I have. I can only speculate as to why they do not work.
          >
          > Realistically I am looking to see if someone has a proven model that is working with 2 kinects or 2 xtion pro's. If so, I would be very interested to know what laptop hardware they have been able to get it to work on.
          >
          > thanks
          > Xandon Frogget
          > Daddio Robotics
          > http://daddiorobotics.com
          >
          > On Dec 13, 2012, at 4:48 AM, jamericanfreddy wrote:
          >
          > > if your laptop has a PCMCIA slot you can get a usb adapter card for it
          >
        • Xandon Frogget
          I would love to add LiDAR to the Mechanized Stroller and other robot projects I am working on. How well has it worked for you? Are you in Seattle and will you
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 14, 2012
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            I would love to add LiDAR to the Mechanized Stroller and other robot projects I am working on.
            How well has it worked for you? Are you in Seattle and will you be going to this Saturdays SRS meeting? If so, you should bring one, I would be very excited to see it in action.

            LiDAR can make up for many of the shortcomings of the Kinect, but I can't shake a stick at the kinect. The two kinects on that stroller were a lot cheaper then the sonar array I had been working on before it. You can pick one up on Craigslist for around $60, and the pawnshop down the street has a dozen of them on hand for not much more (each) than that. There is a lot of forward development being done with it so its a good safe bet it'll be around for the next few years, along with a good support base.

            The current trouble with the Lidar as I understand it is that it doesn't provide a 3d point cloud without some kind of wobble and/or multiple laser configuration. Both of those add to the cost. I am sure it will change with time, but presently the 2D slice it gathers is a very restricted view of the world and a hefty price. A restricted view I would still love to have on my robot, as it does have it's benefits.

            The two kinects in the stroller video aren't currently being used at the same time. I had been testing a chase and follow function for the stroller and it was just easier to leave them connected and then swap between the two.

            If you hadn't seen the video, here is a link to the gizmodo article. I was pretty excited to get picked up by gizmodo, hack a day and a slew of other news sites as well!
            http://gizmodo.com/5960906/a-toddler-driven-motorized-stroller-means-you-never-have-to-push

            Interesting thing about the chase and follow function was how well it was working when I first started testing it. I work on most of my robot projects at night after my twin girls (now 2.75 years old) have gone to sleep, and I had been testing it in the dark, in the road, in front of my house. I was having it lock on to my skeleton and then happily follow me around, or let me lead it with a chase function. It was working really well. I was very excited. That is until I had it follow me up my drive way.  There is a trellis wall with Ivy running up the side of my drive way. The stoller was following my skeleton happily and then lost tracking of my skeleton on the trellis. It lost the skeleton in the ivy yet continued to track it. When that happened it stopped at the designated follow distance in front of the wall and then would move forward and back as the wind lightly blew on the ivy. This I thought was magical, that soon changed however when the skeleton started to climb the ivy and the stroller thought it should follow. I had to stop it at that point.

            The unique thing about the skeletal tracking feature, that I was able to gather from this behavior, is that it is intended for a static background and uses the motion of the user to help differentiate user from background. When I was in the road there was no background reflection within sensor range to cause interference with the tracking, so I stood out really well. When it followed me up the drive way, the background was filled with the ivy from my trellis, and since both of us were in motion in reference to the kinect, it lost me in the ivy.

            The chase function ended up working well as I just used the kinect for it's depth sensing and then as long as I moved towards the stroller it would move away shifting in an expected fashion left or right as I changed my approach. I had wanted to use them both at the same time for a multitude of similar functions, combining the collision avoidance with the chase function. I was able to accomplish it with a different sharp distance sensor array, but I would really like to use the kinect.

            There are many reasons to join multiple kinects together. For instance the current kinect has an approximately 45x60 degree window. If you turn it sidways and stack them together you get 60x60, similar to the way they stacked 70mm film to get iMax. I am already pushing my data to the network for mapping so attaching 2 separate devices would work. I had thought about using the RasberryPi. I Should have ordered one when I ordered that last express card. I think the RaspPi is cheaper then the USB card.

            Xandon Frogget
            Daddio Robotics
            http://daddiorobotics.com






            On Dec 14, 2012, at 6:35 AM, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@...> wrote:

             

            I saw your baby carriage design it has 2 KINECTS instead why not use LIDAR like the one that NEATO XV-11 has,i have alot for sale.

            Second here is another idea that alot of robot designs are using 2 or more computers in a network,easy to add PICO-ITX PX10000G very small size and very low current and use usb port from that.

            --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Xandon Frogget <xandon@...> wrote:
            >
            > jamericanfreddy,
            > I was very hopeful of this idea a little while ago myself. My old laptop has an express card slot, so "easy peasy" I thought, but I have not had the best of luck chasing this concept down. I do now own and will bring to the next SRS meeting a USB 3.0 express card, a USB 2.0 express card and a Firewire/USB Hub if anyone is interested in trade/purchasing. They are all new and fresh out of their packaging. I have not given up on it completely however and I have one last USB 2.0 express card ordered that explicitly states it is rated for 650mA capacity, but I am not holding my breath.
            >
            > I have 2 laptops currently that both have 2 USB controllers, but they do not work as one would hope. They are both Macbook Pro's: the older one is a 2.4 ghz Intel Core 2 Duo and the newer one is a 2.3 ghz Intel Core i7. Tested in both OS X and Windows XP. I am not looking to use macbook pro's for what I need they are just what I have. I can only speculate as to why they do not work.
            >
            > Realistically I am looking to see if someone has a proven model that is working with 2 kinects or 2 xtion pro's. If so, I would be very interested to know what laptop hardware they have been able to get it to work on.
            >
            > thanks
            > Xandon Frogget
            > Daddio Robotics
            > http://daddiorobotics.com
            >
            > On Dec 13, 2012, at 4:48 AM, jamericanfreddy wrote:
            >
            > > if your laptop has a PCMCIA slot you can get a usb adapter card for it
            >

          • Xandon Frogget
            If any volunteers wouldn t mind bringing their Laptops to the SRS meeting and help to test and see what machines might be able to resolve two kinects it would
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 14, 2012
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              If any volunteers wouldn't mind bringing their Laptops to the SRS meeting and help to test and see what machines might be able to resolve two kinects it would be very helpful to the community and we could document the results for others.

              I'll bring two kinects, if anyone else would like to bring theirs.

              Thanks
              Xandon Froggét 
              Daddio Robotics

              On Dec 13, 2012, at 12:18 AM, "Xandon Frogget" <xandon@...> wrote:

               

              I was wondering if anyone has had experience using a laptop with two kinects or Xtion Pro's. If so what laptop were you using and/or could you recommend a laptop to use? What was your configuration?

              From most things I am reading it appears to require 2 separate USB ports (each on a separate Bus). Has anyone been able to get around this?

              Xandon Frogget
              Daddio Robotics
              http://daddiorobotics.com

            • Xandon Frogget
              Correction: For instance the current kinect has an approximately 45x60 degree window. If you turn it sidways and stack them together you get 60x60, Should
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 14, 2012
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                Correction: "For instance the current kinect has an approximately 45x60 degree window. If you turn it sidways and stack them together you get 60x60,"
                Should be:
                Approximate 57x86 degree field of view. Possibly less if you overlap for alignment.


                Xandon Froggét
                Daddio Robotics
                http://daddiorobotics.com




                On Dec 14, 2012, at 1:11 PM, "Xandon Frogget" <xandon@...> wrote:

                > For instance the current kinect has an approximately 45x60 degree window. If you turn it sidways and stack them together you get 60x60,
              • jamericanfreddy
                I AM IN FLA but there is a lot and lot of hacking done on the NEATO XV-11 LIDAR with data and waveforms Using KINECT i have 4 of them at home, couple of points
                Message 7 of 22 , Dec 15, 2012
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                  I AM IN FLA
                  but there is a lot and lot of hacking done on the NEATO XV-11 LIDAR with data and waveforms
                  Using KINECT i have 4 of them at home,
                  couple of points i dont like about them ,first is very big sensor (length) and second very high current draw 1 amp to 1.25 amp ,not great for robots ,where you want to keep the size of the battery down
                  (larger battery meens larger motor and then larger battery or very short run time)

                  i look at current levels ,using very low current sensors ,like maxsonar 3 ma compare to SRF04 AT 35 MA and using LOW DROP REGULATORS and low current ITX BOARDS and like the NEATO XV-11 350 MA

                  --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Xandon Frogget <xandon@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I would love to add LiDAR to the Mechanized Stroller and other robot projects I am working on.
                  > How well has it worked for you? Are you in Seattle and will you be going to this Saturdays SRS meeting? If so, you should bring one, I would be very excited to see it in action.
                  >
                  > LiDAR can make up for many of the shortcomings of the Kinect, but I can't shake a stick at the kinect. The two kinects on that stroller were a lot cheaper then the sonar array I had been working on before it. You can pick one up on Craigslist for around $60, and the pawnshop down the street has a dozen of them on hand for not much more (each) than that. There is a lot of forward development being done with it so its a good safe bet it'll be around for the next few years, along with a good support base.
                  >
                  > The current trouble with the Lidar as I understand it is that it doesn't provide a 3d point cloud without some kind of wobble and/or multiple laser configuration. Both of those add to the cost. I am sure it will change with time, but presently the 2D slice it gathers is a very restricted view of the world and a hefty price. A restricted view I would still love to have on my robot, as it does have it's benefits.
                  >
                  > The two kinects in the stroller video aren't currently being used at the same time. I had been testing a chase and follow function for the stroller and it was just easier to leave them connected and then swap between the two.
                  >
                  > If you hadn't seen the video, here is a link to the gizmodo article. I was pretty excited to get picked up by gizmodo, hack a day and a slew of other news sites as well!
                  > http://gizmodo.com/5960906/a-toddler-driven-motorized-stroller-means-you-never-have-to-push
                  >
                  > Interesting thing about the chase and follow function was how well it was working when I first started testing it. I work on most of my robot projects at night after my twin girls (now 2.75 years old) have gone to sleep, and I had been testing it in the dark, in the road, in front of my house. I was having it lock on to my skeleton and then happily follow me around, or let me lead it with a chase function. It was working really well. I was very excited. That is until I had it follow me up my drive way. There is a trellis wall with Ivy running up the side of my drive way. The stoller was following my skeleton happily and then lost tracking of my skeleton on the trellis. It lost the skeleton in the ivy yet continued to track it. When that happened it stopped at the designated follow distance in front of the wall and then would move forward and back as the wind lightly blew on the ivy. This I thought was magical, that soon changed however when the skeleton started to climb the ivy and the stroller thought it should follow. I had to stop it at that point.
                  >
                  > The unique thing about the skeletal tracking feature, that I was able to gather from this behavior, is that it is intended for a static background and uses the motion of the user to help differentiate user from background. When I was in the road there was no background reflection within sensor range to cause interference with the tracking, so I stood out really well. When it followed me up the drive way, the background was filled with the ivy from my trellis, and since both of us were in motion in reference to the kinect, it lost me in the ivy.
                  >
                  > The chase function ended up working well as I just used the kinect for it's depth sensing and then as long as I moved towards the stroller it would move away shifting in an expected fashion left or right as I changed my approach. I had wanted to use them both at the same time for a multitude of similar functions, combining the collision avoidance with the chase function. I was able to accomplish it with a different sharp distance sensor array, but I would really like to use the kinect.
                  >
                  > There are many reasons to join multiple kinects together. For instance the current kinect has an approximately 45x60 degree window. If you turn it sidways and stack them together you get 60x60, similar to the way they stacked 70mm film to get iMax. I am already pushing my data to the network for mapping so attaching 2 separate devices would work. I had thought about using the RasberryPi. I Should have ordered one when I ordered that last express card. I think the RaspPi is cheaper then the USB card.
                  >
                  > Xandon Frogget
                  > Daddio Robotics
                  > http://daddiorobotics.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On Dec 14, 2012, at 6:35 AM, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > I saw your baby carriage design it has 2 KINECTS instead why not use LIDAR like the one that NEATO XV-11 has,i have alot for sale.
                  > >
                  > > Second here is another idea that alot of robot designs are using 2 or more computers in a network,easy to add PICO-ITX PX10000G very small size and very low current and use usb port from that.
                  > >
                  > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Xandon Frogget <xandon@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > jamericanfreddy,
                  > > > I was very hopeful of this idea a little while ago myself. My old laptop has an express card slot, so "easy peasy" I thought, but I have not had the best of luck chasing this concept down. I do now own and will bring to the next SRS meeting a USB 3.0 express card, a USB 2.0 express card and a Firewire/USB Hub if anyone is interested in trade/purchasing. They are all new and fresh out of their packaging. I have not given up on it completely however and I have one last USB 2.0 express card ordered that explicitly states it is rated for 650mA capacity, but I am not holding my breath.
                  > > >
                  > > > I have 2 laptops currently that both have 2 USB controllers, but they do not work as one would hope. They are both Macbook Pro's: the older one is a 2.4 ghz Intel Core 2 Duo and the newer one is a 2.3 ghz Intel Core i7. Tested in both OS X and Windows XP. I am not looking to use macbook pro's for what I need they are just what I have. I can only speculate as to why they do not work.
                  > > >
                  > > > Realistically I am looking to see if someone has a proven model that is working with 2 kinects or 2 xtion pro's. If so, I would be very interested to know what laptop hardware they have been able to get it to work on.
                  > > >
                  > > > thanks
                  > > > Xandon Frogget
                  > > > Daddio Robotics
                  > > > http://daddiorobotics.com
                  > > >
                  > > > On Dec 13, 2012, at 4:48 AM, jamericanfreddy wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > > if your laptop has a PCMCIA slot you can get a usb adapter card for it
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Xandon Frogget
                  USB 2.0 Express card received. Did not allow 2 kinects to work. I cannot recommend anyone trying the express card route for running 2 kinects on a Macbook Pro.
                  Message 8 of 22 , Dec 18, 2012
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                    USB 2.0 Express card received. Did not allow 2 kinects to work. I cannot recommend anyone trying the express card route for running 2 kinects on a Macbook Pro. It worked with one kinect and then would never work again. Seems consistent with my express card experiences. I have never really had good luck with express cards.My normal use with express cards is that  they always seem to pop out at the wrong time, get stuck inside, crash the system, or stop working when bumped. Pity as I seem to have several of them now.


                    Xandon Frogget
                    Daddio Robotics

                    Next up laptop with docking station.

                    On Dec 13, 2012, at 7:06 AM, Xandon Frogget wrote:

                    I have one last USB 2.0 express card ordered that explicitly states it is rated for 650mA capacity, but I am not holding my breath. 

                  • jamericanfreddy
                    Thinking you best idea is use another computer and network them many professional designs use that idea and i used it too,not for KINECT but another type of
                    Message 9 of 22 , Dec 18, 2012
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                      Thinking you best idea is use another computer and network them
                      many professional designs use that idea and i used it too,not for
                      KINECT but another type of robot design ,and at the same time you use less cpu and memory,using one KINECT USES A LOT OF REASOURCES

                      Great small pico itx computer i use alot is PX10000G and many other ones with my speed and cpu,ZOTAC is one i know

                      --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Xandon Frogget wrote:

                      USB 2.0 Express card received. Did not allow 2 kinects to work. I cannot recommend anyone trying the express card route for running 2 kinects on a Macbook Pro. It worked with one kinect and then would never work again. Seems consistent with my express card experiences. I have never really had good luck with express cards.My normal use with express cards is that they always seem to pop out at the wrong time, get stuck inside, crash the system, or stop working when bumped. Pity as I seem to have several of them now.


                      Xandon Frogget
                      Daddio Robotics
                      http://daddiorobotics.com
                      Xandon@...

                      Next up laptop with docking station.

                      On Dec 13, 2012, at 7:06 AM, Xandon Frogget wrote:

                      I have one last USB 2.0 express card ordered that explicitly states it is rated for 650mA capacity, but I am not holding my breath.
                    • jamericanfreddy
                      You might already tried this ,but usb hubs has over 1 amp with a extra adapter,just cut the wire and make a simple power supply i one them on my robots i made
                      Message 10 of 22 , Dec 18, 2012
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                        You might already tried this ,but usb hubs has over 1 amp with a extra adapter,just cut the wire and make a simple power supply
                        i one them on my robots i made

                        --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Xandon Frogget wrote:

                        USB 2.0 Express card received. Did not allow 2 kinects to work. I cannot recommend anyone trying the express card route for running 2 kinects on a Macbook Pro. It worked with one kinect and then would never work again. Seems consistent with my express card experiences. I have never really had good luck with express cards.My normal use with express cards is that they always seem to pop out at the wrong time, get stuck inside, crash the system, or stop working when bumped. Pity as I seem to have several of them now.


                        Xandon Frogget
                        Daddio Robotics
                        http://daddiorobotics.com
                        Xandon@...

                        Next up laptop with docking station.

                        On Dec 13, 2012, at 7:06 AM, Xandon Frogget wrote:

                        I have one last USB 2.0 express card ordered that explicitly states it is rated for 650mA capacity, but I am not holding my breath.
                      • Dick Curtiss
                        http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/346496/description/The_Science_Li fe
                        Message 11 of 22 , Dec 26, 2012
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                        • Dick Curtiss
                          http://micro.seas.harvard.edu/
                          Message 12 of 22 , Dec 26, 2012
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                          • Joshua Madara
                            Have you seen the robotic dragonfly? Only 5 days remaining to get one during their fundraiser: http://www.indiegogo.com/robotdragonfly Joshua
                            Message 13 of 22 , Dec 27, 2012
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                              Have you seen the robotic dragonfly? Only 5 days remaining to get one during their fundraiser: http://www.indiegogo.com/robotdragonfly

                              Joshua


                              On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 10:17 PM, Dick Curtiss <rcurtiss@...> wrote:

                            • Dick Curtiss
                              The important thing about the bee is the 3D micro construction technique. _____ From: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com]
                              Message 14 of 22 , Dec 27, 2012
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                                The important thing about the bee is the 3D micro construction technique.

                                 


                                From: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com [mailto: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Joshua Madara
                                Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 12:30 AM
                                To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Robotic Bee

                                 

                                 

                                Have you seen the robotic dragonfly? Only 5 days remaining to get one during their fundraiser: http://www.indiegogo.com/robotdragonfly

                                Joshua

                                 

                                On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 10:17 PM, Dick Curtiss <rcurtiss@...> wrote:

                                 

                              • Xandon Frogget
                                Thanks for your help jamericanfreddy, this was a good idea. Sometimes you have to work with what you have. I finally worked up a protocol to share the data I
                                Message 15 of 22 , Feb 11, 2013
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                                  Thanks for your help jamericanfreddy, this was a good idea. Sometimes you have to work with what you have. I finally worked up a protocol to share the data I needed from the 2 computers for testing and it handles the information I need to make the decisions well enough over tcp/ip. It is scalable so that is a good thing.

                                  -Xandon


                                   I still haven't gotten 2 kinects to show up on one computer properly, but it may be able to be overcome with driver modifications. 
                                  On Dec 18, 2012, at 12:51 PM, jamericanfreddy wrote:

                                  Thinking you best idea is use another computer and network them
                                  many professional designs use that idea and i used it too,not for 
                                  KINECT but another type of robot design ,and at the same time you use less cpu and memory,using one KINECT USES A LOT OF REASOURCES

                                • jamericanfreddy
                                  I am getting ready to use almost the same design in my robots one good item about it it s hares the CPU power and memory I see 3 computers together,where one
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Feb 12, 2013
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                                    I am getting ready to use almost the same design in my robots
                                    one good item about it it s hares the CPU power and memory

                                    I see 3 computers together,where one is the brains,another is navigation and another is motors and sensors.

                                    Hook them up together only need the yellow RJ45 network cable,i think its the yellow one,i forgot the type of cable its called or may be you have another way to do it.

                                    can you share the protocol you made
                                    would make mine easy to make when i am ready for it


                                    --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Xandon Frogget wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Thanks for your help jamericanfreddy, this was a good idea. Sometimes you have to work with what you have. I finally worked up a protocol to share the data I needed from the 2 computers for testing and it handles the information I need to make the decisions well enough over tcp/ip. It is scalable so that is a good thing.
                                    >
                                    > -Xandon
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I still haven't gotten 2 kinects to show up on one computer properly, but it may be able to be overcome with driver modifications.
                                    > On Dec 18, 2012, at 12:51 PM, jamericanfreddy wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > Thinking you best idea is use another computer and network them
                                    > > many professional designs use that idea and i used it too,not for
                                    > > KINECT but another type of robot design ,and at the same time you use less cpu and memory,using one KINECT USES A LOT OF REASOURCES
                                    >
                                  • Xandon Frogget
                                    ... If you are connecting 2 computers directly then a crossover cabe might be what you are talking about. Although most ethernet ports have automatic crossover
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Feb 13, 2013
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                                      On Feb 12, 2013, at 8:32 PM, jamericanfreddy wrote:

                                      I see 3 computers together,where one is the brains,another is navigation and another is motors and sensors.

                                      Hook them up together only need the yellow RJ45 network cable,i think its the yellow one,i forgot the type of cable its called or may be you have another way to do it.

                                      If you are connecting 2 computers directly then a crossover cabe might be what you are talking about. Although most ethernet ports have automatic crossover now, so a crossover cable may no longer be necessary. A standard cat 5 with RJ45's will most likely work, but if you cannot get a connection then try using a cat 5 RJ45 with crossover.


                                      You can use many types of network nodes to connect 3 computers with cables ie switch, hub, etc. There are many options for this. I do not believe you need a crossover if you are using a node.

                                      If you have a reliable wifi network you could use that as well and forgo using cables. Really depends on the needs and interference expected. Distance between devices and so on.

                                      Most of my earlier time at the end of last year was spent connecting several micro-controllers together. Once I switched to having a laptop in line, managing the micro controllers becomes a little tedious to plug and unplug them for changing values and reprogramming.

                                      A useful thing I found  to help in this case was to pair a network module with the main or central micro controller, like an RNXV wifly.  When the micro controller powers up, (or the program on the laptop) it is able to use default variable to startup. It will then check on startup if the server is available and if it is, it might load newer variables. At any time I can send a command to force the updated variables or have it polled at regular intervals. Depends on what is needed. It can of course also send data the other direction allowing for those long GPS reads to get reviewed in real time on the laptop or web interface. (XBee will work as well but you need to have a proxy program to run interference.) Recently I have been setting up all my variables in a database table to be read and be written to in this way. I use MySQL now as it is part of the MAMP install.

                                      This made it easier to make adjustments to the program without having to plug in, reprogram, and unplug the robot. I could quickly update things without having to restart the micro controller, saving a huge amount of time. Extra useful since the micro controller was being used generally to bridge to a sensor.

                                      For some of this I would use the laptop computer as the proxie especially when working with XBee, but a lot of transmissions were direct http requests to the php server (part of MAMP) from the  micro controller.
                                      You can telnet and send http commands  since it is on the network so it could go anywhere to gather or send info if the network was open to the internet.

                                      The nice thing about this is once you have networked the micro controller and if you are familiar with web development then you can easily build web tools to interact with your data, allowing you to control and read the micro controller from a distance or a cell phone etc.

                                      All of this seems pretty logical when I was setting it up, but there are probably better ways than I described, this was just some things I have found handy. With a little bit of setup invested to route the variables I could save myself a lot of time when I started testing and refining the program.

                                      A book I found very helpful in the beginning and I highly recommend is called  "Making Things Talk" by Tom Igoe.

                                      -Xandon

                                    • Xandon Frogget
                                      I was finally able to get 2 kinects to work. After testing on a few different machines at SRS meeting, I learned a little and was able to confirm that my 2.3
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Feb 18, 2013
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                                        I was finally able to get 2 kinects to work. After testing on a few different machines at SRS meeting, I learned a little and was able to confirm that my 2.3 Ghz intel core i7 Macbook Pro does use 2 separate hi speed busses for the 2 usb ports on the side. I also found out that a docking station can add USB ports on other laptops that may not. Theoretically the PCI MCIA cards would work this way as well.

                                        Here are instructions for installing:
                                        http://code.google.com/p/simple-openni/wiki/Installation

                                        The processing example MultiCam works for me now with 2 kinects since I found this thread and changed the order of the enableDepth():

                                        https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/simple-openni-discuss/HY312618Qb8

                                        For some reason changing the order that the depth image is turned on allows it to work....?
                                        Sounds kind of fuzzy to me but it works.

                                        Basically from this:
                                        /* ------------------------------ */
                                        // init the cameras
                                        cam1 = new SimpleOpenNI(0,this);
                                        cam2 = new SimpleOpenNI(1,this);

                                        // enable depthMap generation
                                        cam1.enableDepth();
                                        cam2.enableDepth();
                                        /* ------------------------------ */

                                        to this... fixes it:
                                        /* ------------------------------ */
                                        // init the cameras
                                        cam1 = new SimpleOpenNI(0,this);
                                        cam2 = new SimpleOpenNI(1,this);

                                        // enable depthMap generation
                                        cam2.enableDepth();
                                        cam1.enableDepth();
                                        /* ------------------------------ */


                                        -Xandon
                                      • Xandon Frogget
                                        I tested on the older Macbook Pro intel core two duo 2.4 Ghz and it worked fine there now too. Not sure how the slight difference in order of enabling
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Feb 18, 2013
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                                          I tested on the older Macbook Pro intel core two duo 2.4 Ghz and it worked fine there now too. Not sure how the slight difference in order of enabling depthImage changed it, must be a bug in SimpleOpenNI library. The important thing is it works, and so it should work on many of the same board layouts by different manufacturers. (Not just Apple).

                                          I hope this helps others who may be trying to integrate multiple Kinect's into their robot using processing. Another helpful technique for multiple Kinects is presented by Microsoft Research that they call "Shake 'n' Sense"


                                          A big thanks to MicrosoftResearch for sharing this great technique.
                                          -Xandon


                                          On Feb 18, 2013, at 4:26 AM, Xandon Frogget wrote:

                                           

                                          I was finally able to get 2 kinects to work. After testing on a few different machines at SRS meeting, I learned a little and was able to confirm that my 2.3 Ghz intel core i7 Macbook Pro does use 2 separate hi speed busses for the 2 usb ports on the side. I also found out that a docking station can add USB ports on other laptops that may not. Theoretically the PCI MCIA cards would work this way as well.

                                          Here are instructions for installing:
                                          http://code.google.com/p/simple-openni/wiki/Installation

                                          The processing example MultiCam works for me now with 2 kinects since I found this thread and changed the order of the enableDepth():

                                          https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/simple-openni-discuss/HY312618Qb8

                                          For some reason changing the order that the depth image is turned on allows it to work....?
                                          Sounds kind of fuzzy to me but it works.

                                          Basically from this:
                                          /* ------------------------------ */
                                          // init the cameras
                                          cam1 = new SimpleOpenNI(0,this);
                                          cam2 = new SimpleOpenNI(1,this);

                                          // enable depthMap generation
                                          cam1.enableDepth();
                                          cam2.enableDepth();
                                          /* ------------------------------ */

                                          to this... fixes it:
                                          /* ------------------------------ */
                                          // init the cameras
                                          cam1 = new SimpleOpenNI(0,this);
                                          cam2 = new SimpleOpenNI(1,this);

                                          // enable depthMap generation
                                          cam2.enableDepth();
                                          cam1.enableDepth();
                                          /* ------------------------------ */

                                          -Xandon


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