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Re: [SeattleRobotics] OT: ancient logic gate symbols (russian?)

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  • Giuseppe Marullo
    Hi Peter, thanks for your answer. I really don t know what they are. The dotted I am unable to share the photo, so here it is in attach. Giuseppe Marullo
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 10, 2011
    Hi Peter,
    thanks for your answer. I really don't know what they are. The dotted

    I am unable to share the photo, so here it is in attach.

    Giuseppe Marullo
  • Giuseppe Marullo
    ... I meant to say that the dotted lines show where a gate couples with the other, probably to show they are the same ic.
    Message 2 of 13 , Dec 10, 2011
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      On 12/10/2011 9:12 PM, Giuseppe Marullo wrote:
      > Hi Peter,
      > thanks for your answer. I really don't know what they are. The dotted
      >
      > I am unable to share the photo, so here it is in attach.
      >
      > Giuseppe Marullo
      >
      >
      I meant to say that the dotted lines show where a gate couples with the
      other, probably to show they are the same ic.
    • David
      The boxes with a 1 and a little circle on one wire are NOR gates and the ones with & and the circle are NAND gates. Obviously (yeh sure!) the side with one
      Message 3 of 13 , Dec 10, 2011
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        The boxes with a '1' and a little circle on one wire are NOR gates and the ones with '&' and the circle are NAND gates. Obviously (yeh sure!) the side with one wire is the output. Somebody's misplaced bright idea to have us bow down to plotter output in the early 80s. The code for Getting Plotters to draw boxes rather than the more recognisable OR/AND symbols is easier to write.
        When I was writing articles for the UK magazines 'Practical Robotics' and 'Your Spectrum' in the early 80s, Robin Bradbeer the then Consultant Editor insisted on the 'New Symbols', it just caused havoc when the printers and/or graphic artists left out the '1' or '&'. As soon as I took over as Consultant Editor I made sure we changed back to the 'good old fashioned' symbols which as well as avoiding the printers' problem also meant one could scan the diagram and instantly recognise the different functions.
        DAvid


        --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Giuseppe Marullo <giuseppe@...> wrote:
        >
        > Charlie,
        > thanks for your answer. I really don't know. Your link is interesting
        > but there is something more here.
        >
        > Take a look for yourself and tell me you understand what are the boxes
        > with the "1" in it without any greater than sign.
        >
        > Giuseppe Marullo
        >
      • David
        Yes the dotted lines indicate they are in the same package. I forgot to say last time that the 431 will be a shunt regulator
        Message 4 of 13 , Dec 10, 2011
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          Yes the dotted lines indicate they are in the same package. I forgot to say last time that the 431 will be a shunt regulator
          http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM431.pdf
          http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheets/228/321781_DS.pdf
          It is not entirely clear what it does due to where R3 has been drawn, see the 321781_DS.pdf for a drawing which makes better sense.
          DAvid

          --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Giuseppe Marullo <giuseppe@...> wrote:
          >
          > On 12/10/2011 9:12 PM, Giuseppe Marullo wrote:
          > > Hi Peter,
          > > thanks for your answer. I really don't know what they are. The dotted
          > >
          > > I am unable to share the photo, so here it is in attach.
          > >
          > > Giuseppe Marullo
          > >
          > >
          > I meant to say that the dotted lines show where a gate couples with the
          > other, probably to show they are the same ic.
          >
        • Giuseppe Marullo
          ... Yes, the NOR should be 4002, now I need to know the use of the resistor in some gate-to-gate connectio, my guess it is to slower the slew rate...the
          Message 5 of 13 , Dec 11, 2011
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            On 12/10/2011 10:35 PM, David wrote:
            > The boxes with a '1' and a little circle on one wire are NOR gates and the ones with '&' and the circle are NAND gates. Obviously (yeh sure!) the side with one wire is the output. Somebody's misplaced bright idea to have us bow down to plotter output in the early 80s. The code for Getting Plotters to draw boxes rather than the more recognisable OR/AND symbols is easier to write.
            > When I was writing articles for the UK magazines 'Practical Robotics' and 'Your Spectrum' in the early 80s, Robin Bradbeer the then Consultant Editor insisted on the 'New Symbols', it just caused havoc when the printers and/or graphic artists left out the '1' or '&'. As soon as I took over as Consultant Editor I made sure we changed back to the 'good old fashioned' symbols which as well as avoiding the printers' problem also meant one could scan the diagram and instantly recognise the different functions.
            > DAvid
            >
            >
            > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Giuseppe Marullo<giuseppe@...> wrote:
            >> Charlie,
            >> thanks for your answer. I really don't know. Your link is interesting
            >> but there is something more here.
            >>
            >> Take a look for yourself and tell me you understand what are the boxes
            >> with the "1" in it without any greater than sign.
            >>
            >> Giuseppe Marullo
            >>
            >
            >
            Yes, the NOR should be 4002, now I need to know the use of the resistor
            in some gate-to-gate connectio, my guess it is to slower the slew
            rate...the simulation is already on its way using WebISE.

            I do prefer good old fashioned symbols as well.
          • David Buckley
            Due to the American way of drawing circuits, where ground and V+ can be anywhere there is space rather than ground being down and V+ being up so it is easy to
            Message 6 of 13 , Dec 11, 2011
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              Due to the American way of drawing circuits, where ground and V+ can be anywhere there is space rather than ground being down and V+ being up so it is easy to scan, the circuit is confusing.
              R1+C1, R2+C2 are power on resets
              R10 seems to be there by error
              R14+R13+R9+C4s are timing components to delay the rising/falling edge
              Similarly
              C16+R20+R21+R19
              for the output of &11 and the FET via R18 to the amp3
               
              What does it all do?
              DAvid
               
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 6:00 PM
              Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Re: OT: ancient logic gate symbols (russian?)

               

              On 12/10/2011 10:35 PM, David wrote:
              > The boxes with a '1' and a little circle on one wire are NOR gates and the ones with '&' and the circle are NAND gates. Obviously (yeh sure!) the side with one wire is the output. Somebody's misplaced bright idea to have us bow down to plotter output in the early 80s. The code for Getting Plotters to draw boxes rather than the more recognisable OR/AND symbols is easier to write.
              > When I was writing articles for the UK magazines 'Practical Robotics' and 'Your Spectrum' in the early 80s, Robin Bradbeer the then Consultant Editor insisted on the 'New Symbols', it just caused havoc when the printers and/or graphic artists left out the '1' or '&'. As soon as I took over as Consultant Editor I made sure we changed back to the 'good old fashioned' symbols which as well as avoiding the printers' problem also meant one could scan the diagram and instantly recognise the different functions.
              > DAvid
              >
              >
              > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Giuseppe Marullo<giuseppe@...> wrote:
              >> Charlie,
              >> thanks for your answer. I really don't know. Your link is interesting
              >> but there is something more here.
              >>
              >> Take a look for yourself and tell me you understand what are the boxes
              >> with the "1" in it without any greater than sign.
              >>
              >> Giuseppe Marullo
              >>
              >
              >
              Yes, the NOR should be 4002, now I need to know the use of the resistor
              in some gate-to-gate connectio, my guess it is to slower the slew
              rate...the simulation is already on its way using WebISE.

              I do prefer good old fashioned symbols as well.

            • Giuseppe Marullo
              ... David, it is a morse keyer for HST (High Speed Telegraphy).
              Message 7 of 13 , Dec 12, 2011
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                On 12/11/2011 9:19 PM, David Buckley wrote:
                > Due to the American way of drawing circuits, where ground and V+ can be anywhere there is space rather than ground being down and V+ being up so it is easy to scan, the circuit is confusing.
                > R1+C1, R2+C2 are power on resets
                > R10 seems to be there by error
                > R14+R13+R9+C4s are timing components to delay the rising/falling edge
                > Similarly
                > C16+R20+R21+R19
                > for the output of&11 and the FET via R18 to the amp3
                >
                > What does it all do?
                > DAvid
                David,
                it is a morse keyer for HST (High Speed Telegraphy).
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