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Re: [SeattleRobotics] Re: Motion controls

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  • twcarroll@aol.com
    I ve been seeing different people bouncing back and forth between using a power window motor and a solenoid. A power window motor is a bit large and the
    Message 1 of 32 , Jun 11, 2011
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           I've been seeing different people bouncing back and forth between using a power window motor and a solenoid.  A power window motor is a bit large and the solenoid actuation is non-linear in force applied.  Another method is to use an automobile electric door lock actuator.  They look like solenoids but are actually very small motor-driven linear actuators.  The disadvantage is that they draw a lot of current for their size- I'm guessing 5+ amps, and have a small 'throw.'  I've seen them surplus new for $5.00 or less. 
           Tom C.
      My thoughts would be a solenoid to rotate a cam / latch assy and another solenoid to realise with a spring return.  This should remove the power and heat problems?

      Gene

      --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "Lloyd Moore" <moorel3@...> wrote:
      >
      > I was assuming the solenoid would be driving a mechanical apparatus to get the rotation, although there are rotational solenoids. Granted the force could be an issue, and that would have to be looked at. Given this system is located on the rear bumper I don’t think the forces are going to be that high. The motor solution mentioned would also work but is more complex.
      >

      >
      > I just did a REALLY fast search for solenoids on the web and came across this page: http://www.generalcontrol.com/solenoid.htm
      >

      >
      > I’m not saying ANY of these are the correct solution, but just looking at the general parameters here you have a range of linear to 110 degrees of rotation, with forces up to 350 lbs in some cases. (One of many pages â€" just search for “high force solenoid” )Of course you have to reduce the force by the stroke length and all of that, but I suspect there is something out there that would work. Not having full drawings and such of what is being built I’ll have to leave the specific search and selection as an exercise to the reader. :-)
      >

      >
      > As for the cruise control I ran into this issue specifically when converting to LED brake lights. In my specific case the cruise control system sends a small sense current through the brake lights specifically when they are off. If that current isn’t within some expected range then the cruise control would not engage. Different cars do this in different ways. Some use a switch on the brake peddle and don’t do this at all. My guidance here is to simply be aware that some vehicles monitor the brake lights in various ways for diagnostics.
      >

      >
      > Thanks,
      >
      > Lloyd Moore,
      >
      > President
      >

      >
      >
      >
      >    www.CyberData-Robotics.com <http://www.cyberdata-robotics.com/>
      >
      >                1.206.715.7628
      >

      >

      >
      > This electronic mail (including attachments) may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and/or otherwise protected from disclosure to anyone other than its intended recipient(s). Any dissemination or use of this electronic email or its contents (including attachments) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by reply email so that we may correct the situation. Please delete the original message (including attachments) in its entirety. Thank you.
      >

      >
      >   _____ 
      >
      > From: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Buckley
      > Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 4:25 PM
      > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Re: Motion controls
      >

      >
      >  
      >
      >  
      >
      > Lloyd
      >
      > From where are you going to get a solenoid that big and powerful to operate a mechanism rotating 180deg?
      >
      > Especially one that will work from 12v.
      >
      > If you managed to find a solenoid, seeing as when the brakes are off the brake lights are off and the solenoid would be off how can there be a problem with reactivating the cruise control?
      >
      > DAvid
      >

      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      >
      > From: moorel3@...
      >
      > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Cc: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 11:35 PM
      >
      > Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Re: Motion controls
      >

      >
      >  
      >
      > Jackson,
      >
      > Based on this information I would be really leaning toward the solenoid solution. As was also mentioned you would want a spring on this to close it when the power is removed.
      >
      > Depending on the size of the solenoid you may also want to include a relay so that you are not driving the entire electrical load directly from the brake lights. Depending on the specific vehicle, altering the amount of current going through the brake light circuit can affect other systems - the one that comes to mind is the cruise control, many of them sense brake light current to disable the cruise control, and will not allow the cruise control to activate if the current appears to be out of range.
      >
      > If that general idea works for you let me know and I can answer specific questions or give you some more general guidance.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Lloyd
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "jackson hennes" <jacksonhennes@...>
      > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 12:55:53 PM
      > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: Motion controls
      >
      >  
      >
      > Hello everyone,
      > I want to thank you all for your efforts to help me solve this problem. I have read each response and will do my best to provide the information each person has requested.
      >
      > Peter, David, Lloyd, Alan, Daniel, and Bill:
      >
      > The power supply will be from a car brake light system. So it will be DC and only be powered when the brakes are applied. The project needs to open when the brakes are applied and close when the brakes are released. It will have to open under power and close without power.
      >
      > I would like the opening process to be 3 seconds or less if possible but that will depend on the cost of the device opening it. To keep costs reasonable the activation time will have to be balanced with the price of the system used to open it.
      >
      > The wind source will be the moving car itself. The device will be located on or near the center of the rear bumper which should protect it from much of the wind.
      >
      > The panels that open like a tri-fold will be six inches by 12 inches, hinged to the main section and will be made of plastic. This should lower the weight but increase the strength of the panels.
      >
      > The turning project will be about the size of a two liter bottle and will also be made of plastic.
      >
      > My skill level in the mechanical area is above average at least as I do my own home remodeling, auto mechanics, and any other work you do in a home, including plumbing and wiring. As for electronics, I have built my own computer by ordering the parts and assembling them. I have not built my own board. I did solder a new fuse into a board, so I do have the ability to put parts into a board. I wouldn't have a clue as to what the parts of a board do to make the thing operate. If you tell me what board to use and where to put the parts, I would be able to assemble it.
      >
      > I hope this will allow you to give me the most accurate suggestions possible. I greatly appreciate all you work and efforts on my behalf.
      >
      > Sincerely,
      > Jackson Hennes
      >
      > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lloyd Moore" <moorel3@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Jackson,
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Could I get a bit more information on what you are doing? I've got a couple
      > > ideas floating around and depending on your specific skills, power
      > > requirements I'm not sure which way to go. Let me throw them out there and
      > > let give me some thoughts on each:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > 1. Simple solenoids - could be light weight and if all you have is a
      > > two position, power on - power off requirement might be the simplest way to
      > > go. Could be a bit power hungry though.
      > > 2. Small / micro servo motors. Likely the best solution overall, but is
      > > also the most complex and expensive. This may also be overkill for what you
      > > are trying to do.
      > > 3. Shape memory wire / Muscle Wire - similar to solenoids but even
      > > lighter and simpler. This would likely have the highest power requirements,
      > > but could also be combined with a microcontroller to give additional
      > > control.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Thoughts?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Thanks,
      > >
      > > Lloyd Moore,
      > >
      > > President
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > www.CyberData-Robotics.com <http://www.cyberdata-robotics.com/>
      > >
      > > 1.206.715.7628
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > This electronic mail (including attachments) may contain information that is
      > > privileged, confidential, and/or otherwise protected from disclosure to
      > > anyone other than its intended recipient(s). Any dissemination or use of
      > > this electronic email or its contents (including attachments) by persons
      > > other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have
      > > received this message in error, please notify us immediately by reply email
      > > so that we may correct the situation. Please delete the original message
      > > (including attachments) in its entirety. Thank you.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > _____
      > >
      > > From: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > [mailto:SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of jacksonhennes
      > > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 7:23 PM
      > > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SeattleRobotics%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Motion controls
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Hello Everyone,
      > >
      > > I am trying to figure out an inexpensive way to make a couple projects move.
      > >
      > > The first project needs to turn 180 degrees when power is applied and stay
      > > there until the power goes off and return back to it's home position.
      > >
      > > The second project needs to open a tri-fold mechanism so all the panels are
      > > in the same plane when it is open and separate planes when closed. The
      > > mechanism should be in the open position when power is applied and close
      > > when the power is removed.
      > >
      > > If anyone could help me on low cost ideas to make these mechanisms work I
      > > would greatly appreciate it. Each mechanism is relatively low weight, 16
      > > ounces or less but will have to deal with significant wind forces while
      > > operating. If you have ideas or need more information to figure this out
      > > please let me know.
      > >
      > > Thanks so much,
      > > Jackson Hennes
       
    • Charlie H
      Hmmm. IIRC, the interocitor comes as a kit in a BIG box.
      Message 32 of 32 , Jun 16, 2011
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        Hmmm.  IIRC, the interocitor comes as a kit in a BIG box.

        On 6/16/2011 11:24 AM, David Buckley wrote:
         

        That is where the variable Interocitor comes in.
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Charlie H
        Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 1:10 PM
        Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Re: Motion controls

         

        Cavorite. Sure. But how do you control the shutters cheaply?

        Charlie

        On 6/16/2011 7:48 AM, David Buckley wrote:

         
        Peter
        I am surprised nobody has come up with using Cavorite. That would be so simple, IF....
        DAvid
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 10:20 AM
        Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Re: Motion controls

         

        From: Tony Brenke
        > I would use a dc motor and a limit switch.
        > spring loaded close.

        Spring loaded close? Can you point to a motor that can be back driven and is
        suitable in terms of torque and current?

        Peter


        .



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