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Re: better than roomba?

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  • dan michaels
    ... Actually, I was thinking more along the lines that it should be fairly easy to make one s own evolution floor cleaner lookalike. Attach a swiffer pad to a
    Message 1 of 22 , Mar 7 9:23 AM
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      --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@...> wrote:
      >


      Actually, I was thinking more along the lines that it should be
      fairly easy to make one's own evolution floor cleaner lookalike.
      Attach a swiffer pad to a plate on the bottom of a bot, and write
      your own routines for it running around the rooms. Better yet, use
      a microfiber cloth. Wet the pad, and do the mopping too.

      One run a day, and it's get up those little dust balls that
      develop every day. If it runs every day, it could just get up
      the light film of new dirt that's laid down each day.

      Could be about half the size of a roomba. Of course, you'd need
      a sensor so it would stay only on the hard floors and not go onto
      the carpets. I'm not sure what would be a good sensor for this,
      but maybe something audio. Or maybe a low-riding whisker to sense
      the edge of the carpets.

      The evolution cleaner uses the Northstar navigation system, but
      you could write your own room mapping routines.


      >
      > i dont think it has a usb or uses SCI COMMANDS ,like the roomba has
      > so it may be hard to access it,i know on the roomba it handles 40 lb payload with all vacuum,brush motors and side motors removed,plus alot of room inside,after a plate is added for boards or second battery
      > also a few GUI are made to control it besides RoboRealm module
      > using RoboRealm module you can add API MODULE to make API CALLS in C++,OR PYTHON,OR C SHARP,LISP and many others
      >
      > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "dan michaels" <oric_dan@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Interesting idea - would be fairly easy to implement on a homemade
      > > robot, since it uses swiffer pads instead of a rotating brush.
      > > Cleans and mops hard floors, but not carpets.
      > >
      > > http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00408PCEW/
      > >
      >
    • T
      I have a tile floor. Probably would miss a lot of dirt. Thomas Like robots? Visit my new site: http://www.robots-and-androids.com
      Message 2 of 22 , Mar 7 4:38 PM
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        I have a tile floor. Probably would miss a lot of dirt.

        Thomas

        Like robots?

        Visit my new site:

        http://www.robots-and-androids.com
      • jamericanfreddy
        it seems like a roomba model with a fancy name (northstar system) or they could just be using the software,i dont see them using a laser system for that price
        Message 3 of 22 , Mar 8 9:44 AM
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          it seems like a roomba model with a fancy name (northstar system)
          or they could just be using the software,i dont see them using a laser system for that price ,like the NEATO XV-11 IS USING for $400
          compare to $200,might be good to hack it,but i think as a low cost robot platform it cant handle to much weight
          doesnt say anything about automatic charging base finder and hookup
          it uses a beacon and virtual wall (called northstar cube) hard to tell if it has any other sensors,like IR or bumber detectors or cliff detectors


          --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "dan michaels" <oric_dan@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
          > >
          >
          >
          > Actually, I was thinking more along the lines that it should be
          > fairly easy to make one's own evolution floor cleaner lookalike.
          > Attach a swiffer pad to a plate on the bottom of a bot, and write
          > your own routines for it running around the rooms. Better yet, use
          > a microfiber cloth. Wet the pad, and do the mopping too.
          >
          > One run a day, and it's get up those little dust balls that
          > develop every day. If it runs every day, it could just get up
          > the light film of new dirt that's laid down each day.
          >
          > Could be about half the size of a roomba. Of course, you'd need
          > a sensor so it would stay only on the hard floors and not go onto
          > the carpets. I'm not sure what would be a good sensor for this,
          > but maybe something audio. Or maybe a low-riding whisker to sense
          > the edge of the carpets.
          >
          > The evolution cleaner uses the Northstar navigation system, but
          > you could write your own room mapping routines.
          >
          >
          > >
          > > i dont think it has a usb or uses SCI COMMANDS ,like the roomba has
          > > so it may be hard to access it,i know on the roomba it handles 40 lb payload with all vacuum,brush motors and side motors removed,plus alot of room inside,after a plate is added for boards or second battery
          > > also a few GUI are made to control it besides RoboRealm module
          > > using RoboRealm module you can add API MODULE to make API CALLS in C++,OR PYTHON,OR C SHARP,LISP and many others
          > >
          > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "dan michaels" <oric_dan@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Interesting idea - would be fairly easy to implement on a homemade
          > > > robot, since it uses swiffer pads instead of a rotating brush.
          > > > Cleans and mops hard floors, but not carpets.
          > > >
          > > > http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00408PCEW/
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • jamericanfreddy
          i have tile floors all over my house and i use a swiffer but it does a fair job ,but it does miss some hard spots i would want a robotic cleaner that does both
          Message 4 of 22 , Mar 8 9:56 AM
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            i have tile floors all over my house and i use a swiffer
            but it does a fair job ,but it does miss some hard spots
            i would want a robotic cleaner that does both ,scrubs and uses a swiffer
            or just one with scrubbing brushes,IROBOT does make one,with a water pump and more

            with thier design look good using swiffer pads making it low cost without motors and brushes,but will miss hard to clean spots like the SWIFFER MOP does

            --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, T <famousbots@...> wrote:
            >
            > I have a tile floor. Probably would miss a lot of dirt.
            >
            > Thomas
            >
            > Like robots?
            >
            > Visit my new site:
            >
            > http://www.robots-and-androids.com
            >
          • twcarroll@aol.com
            The Northstar system is not anything like a lighthouse or virtual wall from Roomba. Those are just IR beam walls to tell the Roomba to turn around and go
            Message 5 of 22 , Mar 8 2:07 PM
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              The Northstar system is not anything like a 'lighthouse' or 'virtual wall' from Roomba.  Those are just IR beam walls to tell the Roomba to turn around and go the other way when it detects the beam.  The Northstar system sends a modulated beam up the ceiling that the robot can see and then it can bit-map the room, locate the walls and obstacles and do straight runs back and forth by sighting the location of the 'spot', not like the random "sheep grazing" pattern of the Roomba.
                   Tom C.
            • dan michaels
              ... I would think you could deal with tile floors by using a sponge under the swiffer pad [ie, between pad and holding plate] with a grid of cuts going about
              Message 6 of 22 , Mar 8 3:43 PM
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                --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@...> wrote:
                >


                I would think you could deal with tile floors by using a
                sponge under the swiffer pad [ie, between pad and holding plate]
                with a grid of cuts going about halfway through the sponge height. That way, the sponge could allow more variation in the swiffer
                pad when going over uneven surfaces.


                > i have tile floors all over my house and i use a swiffer
                > but it does a fair job ,but it does miss some hard spots
                > i would want a robotic cleaner that does both ,scrubs and uses a swiffer> or just one with scrubbing brushes,IROBOT does make one,with a water pump and more
                >
                > with thier design look good using swiffer pads making it low cost without motors and brushes,but will miss hard to clean spots like the SWIFFER MOP does
                >
                > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, T <famousbots@> wrote:
                > >
                > > I have a tile floor. Probably would miss a lot of dirt.
                > >
                > > Thomas
                > >
                > > Like robots?
                > >
                > > Visit my new site:
                > >
                > > http://www.robots-and-androids.com
                > >
                >
              • dan michaels
                ... Well, the video for the evolution cleaner on amazon link indicates it uses the Northstar nav system.
                Message 7 of 22 , Mar 8 3:44 PM
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                  --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@...> wrote:
                  >


                  Well, the video for the evolution cleaner on amazon link indicates
                  it uses the Northstar nav system.


                  > it seems like a roomba model with a fancy name (northstar system)
                  > or they could just be using the software,i dont see them using a laser system for that price ,like the NEATO XV-11 IS USING for $400
                  > compare to $200,might be good to hack it,but i think as a low cost robot platform it cant handle to much weight
                  > doesnt say anything about automatic charging base finder and hookup
                  > it uses a beacon and virtual wall (called northstar cube) hard to tell if it has any other sensors,like IR or bumber detectors or cliff detectors
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "dan michaels" <oric_dan@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Actually, I was thinking more along the lines that it should be
                  > > fairly easy to make one's own evolution floor cleaner lookalike.
                  > > Attach a swiffer pad to a plate on the bottom of a bot, and write
                  > > your own routines for it running around the rooms. Better yet, use
                  > > a microfiber cloth. Wet the pad, and do the mopping too.
                  > >
                  > > One run a day, and it's get up those little dust balls that
                  > > develop every day. If it runs every day, it could just get up
                  > > the light film of new dirt that's laid down each day.
                  > >
                  > > Could be about half the size of a roomba. Of course, you'd need
                  > > a sensor so it would stay only on the hard floors and not go onto
                  > > the carpets. I'm not sure what would be a good sensor for this,
                  > > but maybe something audio. Or maybe a low-riding whisker to sense
                  > > the edge of the carpets.
                  > >
                  > > The evolution cleaner uses the Northstar navigation system, but
                  > > you could write your own room mapping routines.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > > > i dont think it has a usb or uses SCI COMMANDS ,like the roomba has
                  > > > so it may be hard to access it,i know on the roomba it handles 40 lb payload with all vacuum,brush motors and side motors removed,plus alot of room inside,after a plate is added for boards or second battery
                  > > > also a few GUI are made to control it besides RoboRealm module
                  > > > using RoboRealm module you can add API MODULE to make API CALLS in C++,OR PYTHON,OR C SHARP,LISP and many others
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "dan michaels" <oric_dan@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Interesting idea - would be fairly easy to implement on a homemade
                  > > > > robot, since it uses swiffer pads instead of a rotating brush.
                  > > > > Cleans and mops hard floors, but not carpets.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00408PCEW/
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • jamericanfreddy
                  when i was reading more i saw that,i see they dont have usb programming or sci port on the robotic cleaner like on the roomba it may be able to hack it,but
                  Message 8 of 22 , Mar 9 9:22 AM
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                    when i was reading more i saw that,i see they dont have usb programming or sci port on the robotic cleaner like on the roomba

                    it may be able to hack it,but still i like the roomba
                    alot cheaper,dont need a new one,can control all motors,read all sensors ,has automatic docking and easy to program,with roomba can add something like northstar or KINECT (THATS BEEN DONE ALREADY)it does handle 40 lb of extra weight,i just got 5 more for $15 each and all i found works only battery dead (one battery needed to be recharged)
                    i did find that i had to update the firmware

                    i ma going to look to get one to see if it can be hack i see no info on the web on anyone hack it yet,northstar SYSTEM would be a good add on for robots ,if the software can be hacked

                    might be a good robotic cleaner with that system but useless it somehow be hacked for robotics,and that is wrere the problem is

                    --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, twcarroll@... wrote:
                    >
                    > The Northstar system is not anything like a 'lighthouse' or 'virtual wall'
                    > from Roomba. Those are just IR beam walls to tell the Roomba to turn
                    > around and go the other way when it detects the beam. The Northstar system
                    > sends a modulated beam up the ceiling that the robot can see and then it can
                    > bit-map the room, locate the walls and obstacles and do straight runs back
                    > and forth by sighting the location of the 'spot', not like the random "sheep
                    > grazing" pattern of the Roomba.
                    > Tom C.
                    >
                  • jamericanfreddy
                    as a robotic cleaner it does look better then the roomba but the biggest problem is the hacking,finding the programming port is easy,find out what chip its
                    Message 9 of 22 , Mar 9 9:38 AM
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                      as a robotic cleaner it does look better then the roomba
                      but the biggest problem is the hacking,finding the programming port is easy,find out what chip its using,and use tx rx lines
                      but hardest part with getting the info ,coding and software for the northstar system
                      it would be a good hack if someone can do it
                      i dont seem to like beacons or virtual walls to navigate on a robot
                      i like using natural senses,like camera ,sensors like lasers,IR ,sonar, thermal,touch,pressure,to make it more real like
                      KINECT sensor now that is hacked is fairly good,NEATO XV-11 just got hacked is most likely better,then a good navigation and mapping software is needed,on the ROOMBA only using sensors,and motors and find home charger,that some robot designs dont have yet

                      --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, twcarroll@... wrote:
                      >
                      > The Northstar system is not anything like a 'lighthouse' or 'virtual wall'
                      > from Roomba. Those are just IR beam walls to tell the Roomba to turn
                      > around and go the other way when it detects the beam. The Northstar system
                      > sends a modulated beam up the ceiling that the robot can see and then it can
                      > bit-map the room, locate the walls and obstacles and do straight runs back
                      > and forth by sighting the location of the 'spot', not like the random "sheep
                      > grazing" pattern of the Roomba.
                      > Tom C.
                      >
                    • jamericanfreddy
                      i just bought one,i hope its hackable if not i can use to clean my tile floor,i guess for each room you have to move the northstar cube because i have tile all
                      Message 10 of 22 , Mar 9 10:19 AM
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                        i just bought one,i hope its hackable if not i can use to clean my tile floor,i guess for each room you have to move the northstar cube
                        because i have tile all over my house,but mostly looking to use the sensors
                        i bought a NEATO xv-11 while back on working on adding to one of my robotic designs to try it out

                        --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > as a robotic cleaner it does look better then the roomba
                        > but the biggest problem is the hacking,finding the programming port is easy,find out what chip its using,and use tx rx lines
                        > but hardest part with getting the info ,coding and software for the northstar system
                        > it would be a good hack if someone can do it
                        > i dont seem to like beacons or virtual walls to navigate on a robot
                        > i like using natural senses,like camera ,sensors like lasers,IR ,sonar, thermal,touch,pressure,to make it more real like
                        > KINECT sensor now that is hacked is fairly good,NEATO XV-11 just got hacked is most likely better,then a good navigation and mapping software is needed,on the ROOMBA only using sensors,and motors and find home charger,that some robot designs dont have yet
                        >
                        > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, twcarroll@ wrote:
                        > >
                        > > The Northstar system is not anything like a 'lighthouse' or 'virtual wall'
                        > > from Roomba. Those are just IR beam walls to tell the Roomba to turn
                        > > around and go the other way when it detects the beam. The Northstar system
                        > > sends a modulated beam up the ceiling that the robot can see and then it can
                        > > bit-map the room, locate the walls and obstacles and do straight runs back
                        > > and forth by sighting the location of the 'spot', not like the random "sheep
                        > > grazing" pattern of the Roomba.
                        > > Tom C.
                        > >
                        >
                      • jamericanfreddy
                        well i got it in today and going to charge it over night i got it for $110 used,didnt get it for cleaning my floors i did open it a little just to see the
                        Message 11 of 22 , Mar 17 3:08 PM
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                          well i got it in today and going to charge it over night
                          i got it for $110 used,didnt get it for cleaning my floors
                          i did open it a little just to see the motors,dont look as good as roomba ,so i dont think it can handle the weight of 40 lbs like the ROOMBA does
                          but the northstar system looks good if it can be hacked,electronics look good but using it as a robotic base ?
                          in a few days i will TEAR IT DOWN and post the results
                          for good navigation sensors so far ,i see 3 good types
                          one is KINECT ,hacked with code

                          second is NEATO xv-11 LASER sensor hacked ,part code ,heard roborealm looking at a interface for it

                          third is EVOLUTION CLEANER using NORTHSTAR system ,not hacked or code
                          i see it uses a really good navigation system buy need to use a beacon in each room (northstar cube),thats only downside i see to using it


                          --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "dan michaels" <oric_dan@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > I would think you could deal with tile floors by using a
                          > sponge under the swiffer pad [ie, between pad and holding plate]
                          > with a grid of cuts going about halfway through the sponge height. That way, the sponge could allow more variation in the swiffer
                          > pad when going over uneven surfaces.
                          >
                          >
                          > > i have tile floors all over my house and i use a swiffer
                          > > but it does a fair job ,but it does miss some hard spots
                          > > i would want a robotic cleaner that does both ,scrubs and uses a swiffer> or just one with scrubbing brushes,IROBOT does make one,with a water pump and more
                          > >
                          > > with thier design look good using swiffer pads making it low cost without motors and brushes,but will miss hard to clean spots like the SWIFFER MOP does
                          > >
                          > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, T <famousbots@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > I have a tile floor. Probably would miss a lot of dirt.
                          > > >
                          > > > Thomas
                          > > >
                          > > > Like robots?
                          > > >
                          > > > Visit my new site:
                          > > >
                          > > > http://www.robots-and-androids.com
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • dan michaels
                          ... Maybe you can be the first to hack it.
                          Message 12 of 22 , Mar 17 3:21 PM
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                            --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@...> wrote:
                            >


                            Maybe you can be the first to hack it.


                            > well i got it in today and going to charge it over night
                            > i got it for $110 used,didnt get it for cleaning my floors
                            > i did open it a little just to see the motors,dont look as good as roomba ,so i dont think it can handle the weight of 40 lbs like the ROOMBA does
                            > but the northstar system looks good if it can be hacked,electronics look good but using it as a robotic base ?
                            > in a few days i will TEAR IT DOWN and post the results
                            > for good navigation sensors so far ,i see 3 good types
                            > one is KINECT ,hacked with code
                            >
                            > second is NEATO xv-11 LASER sensor hacked ,part code ,heard roborealm looking at a interface for it
                            >
                            > third is EVOLUTION CLEANER using NORTHSTAR system ,not hacked or code
                            > i see it uses a really good navigation system buy need to use a beacon in each room (northstar cube),thats only downside i see to using it
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "dan michaels" <oric_dan@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > I would think you could deal with tile floors by using a
                            > > sponge under the swiffer pad [ie, between pad and holding plate]
                            > > with a grid of cuts going about halfway through the sponge height. That way, the sponge could allow more variation in the swiffer
                            > > pad when going over uneven surfaces.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > > i have tile floors all over my house and i use a swiffer
                            > > > but it does a fair job ,but it does miss some hard spots
                            > > > i would want a robotic cleaner that does both ,scrubs and uses a swiffer> or just one with scrubbing brushes,IROBOT does make one,with a water pump and more
                            > > >
                            > > > with thier design look good using swiffer pads making it low cost without motors and brushes,but will miss hard to clean spots like the SWIFFER MOP does
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, T <famousbots@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I have a tile floor. Probably would miss a lot of dirt.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Thomas
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Like robots?
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Visit my new site:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > http://www.robots-and-androids.com
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • jamericanfreddy
                            PROBLEM IS I AM GREAT WITH ELECTRONICS,but not great in coding that is where the problem is i can find the tx and rx port and make adapter for it and maybe
                            Message 13 of 22 , Mar 17 4:13 PM
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                              PROBLEM IS I AM GREAT WITH ELECTRONICS,but not great in coding
                              that is where the problem is
                              i can find the tx and rx port and make adapter for it
                              and maybe using a terminal program like used for neato XV-11 HACK
                              and it use the "HELP" command,rest i dont know

                              --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "dan michaels" <oric_dan@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              > Maybe you can be the first to hack it.
                              >
                              >
                              > > well i got it in today and going to charge it over night
                              > > i got it for $110 used,didnt get it for cleaning my floors
                              > > i did open it a little just to see the motors,dont look as good as roomba ,so i dont think it can handle the weight of 40 lbs like the ROOMBA does
                              > > but the northstar system looks good if it can be hacked,electronics look good but using it as a robotic base ?
                              > > in a few days i will TEAR IT DOWN and post the results
                              > > for good navigation sensors so far ,i see 3 good types
                              > > one is KINECT ,hacked with code
                              > >
                              > > second is NEATO xv-11 LASER sensor hacked ,part code ,heard roborealm looking at a interface for it
                              > >
                              > > third is EVOLUTION CLEANER using NORTHSTAR system ,not hacked or code
                              > > i see it uses a really good navigation system buy need to use a beacon in each room (northstar cube),thats only downside i see to using it
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "dan michaels" <oric_dan@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > I would think you could deal with tile floors by using a
                              > > > sponge under the swiffer pad [ie, between pad and holding plate]
                              > > > with a grid of cuts going about halfway through the sponge height. That way, the sponge could allow more variation in the swiffer
                              > > > pad when going over uneven surfaces.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > > i have tile floors all over my house and i use a swiffer
                              > > > > but it does a fair job ,but it does miss some hard spots
                              > > > > i would want a robotic cleaner that does both ,scrubs and uses a swiffer> or just one with scrubbing brushes,IROBOT does make one,with a water pump and more
                              > > > >
                              > > > > with thier design look good using swiffer pads making it low cost without motors and brushes,but will miss hard to clean spots like the SWIFFER MOP does
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, T <famousbots@> wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > I have a tile floor. Probably would miss a lot of dirt.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Thomas
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Like robots?
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Visit my new site:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > http://www.robots-and-androids.com
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • dan michaels
                              ... One would think the evolution guys would have a relatively easy way into the microprocessor, for testing and debug. I couldn t imagine building something
                              Message 14 of 22 , Mar 17 5:26 PM
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                                --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@...> wrote:
                                >


                                One would think the evolution guys would have a relatively
                                easy way into the microprocessor, for testing and debug. I
                                couldn't imagine building something like that myself without
                                having access to the internals, before, during, and after the
                                fact.



                                > PROBLEM IS I AM GREAT WITH ELECTRONICS,but not great in coding
                                > that is where the problem is
                                > i can find the tx and rx port and make adapter for it
                                > and maybe using a terminal program like used for neato XV-11 HACK
                                > and it use the "HELP" command,rest i dont know
                                >
                                > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "dan michaels" <oric_dan@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Maybe you can be the first to hack it.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > > well i got it in today and going to charge it over night
                                > > > i got it for $110 used,didnt get it for cleaning my floors
                                > > > i did open it a little just to see the motors,dont look as good as roomba ,so i dont think it can handle the weight of 40 lbs like the ROOMBA does
                                > > > but the northstar system looks good if it can be hacked,electronics look good but using it as a robotic base ?
                                > > > in a few days i will TEAR IT DOWN and post the results
                                > > > for good navigation sensors so far ,i see 3 good types
                                > > > one is KINECT ,hacked with code
                                > > >
                                > > > second is NEATO xv-11 LASER sensor hacked ,part code ,heard roborealm looking at a interface for it
                                > > >
                                > > > third is EVOLUTION CLEANER using NORTHSTAR system ,not hacked or code
                                > > > i see it uses a really good navigation system buy need to use a beacon in each room (northstar cube),thats only downside i see to using it
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "dan michaels" <oric_dan@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I would think you could deal with tile floors by using a
                                > > > > sponge under the swiffer pad [ie, between pad and holding plate]
                                > > > > with a grid of cuts going about halfway through the sponge height. That way, the sponge could allow more variation in the swiffer
                                > > > > pad when going over uneven surfaces.
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > > i have tile floors all over my house and i use a swiffer
                                > > > > > but it does a fair job ,but it does miss some hard spots
                                > > > > > i would want a robotic cleaner that does both ,scrubs and uses a swiffer> or just one with scrubbing brushes,IROBOT does make one,with a water pump and more
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > with thier design look good using swiffer pads making it low cost without motors and brushes,but will miss hard to clean spots like the SWIFFER MOP does
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, T <famousbots@> wrote:
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > I have a tile floor. Probably would miss a lot of dirt.
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > Thomas
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > Like robots?
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > Visit my new site:
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > http://www.robots-and-androids.com
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • jamericanfreddy
                                MORE INFO ON HACKING the evolution mint cleaner i did find a usb mini port near battery and hook up to usb on my computer,no port came up,so i tried a few
                                Message 15 of 22 , Mar 17 5:33 PM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  MORE INFO ON HACKING the evolution mint cleaner
                                  i did find a usb mini port near battery and hook up to usb on my computer,no port came up,so i tried a few buttons,start button ,clean,wet button still no port
                                  so i open the case and look at pcb board ,top side has the northstar receiver/transmitter plus 3 button and connectors,bottom side has a few chips and cpu and componets,but big problem all are unmarked,looks like they removed all markings or part #
                                  i could not find any jumpers to turn on usb port

                                  any one have any ideas on finding the usb port #
                                  i know when i plug in the cable it does turn on,but no port # in device manager
                                  on the northstar receiver/transmitter there are 2 pins on one edge and 4 pins on the other

                                  --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > PROBLEM IS I AM GREAT WITH ELECTRONICS,but not great in coding
                                  > that is where the problem is
                                  > i can find the tx and rx port and make adapter for it
                                  > and maybe using a terminal program like used for neato XV-11 HACK
                                  > and it use the "HELP" command,rest i dont know
                                  >
                                  > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "dan michaels" <oric_dan@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Maybe you can be the first to hack it.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > > well i got it in today and going to charge it over night
                                  > > > i got it for $110 used,didnt get it for cleaning my floors
                                  > > > i did open it a little just to see the motors,dont look as good as roomba ,so i dont think it can handle the weight of 40 lbs like the ROOMBA does
                                  > > > but the northstar system looks good if it can be hacked,electronics look good but using it as a robotic base ?
                                  > > > in a few days i will TEAR IT DOWN and post the results
                                  > > > for good navigation sensors so far ,i see 3 good types
                                  > > > one is KINECT ,hacked with code
                                  > > >
                                  > > > second is NEATO xv-11 LASER sensor hacked ,part code ,heard roborealm looking at a interface for it
                                  > > >
                                  > > > third is EVOLUTION CLEANER using NORTHSTAR system ,not hacked or code
                                  > > > i see it uses a really good navigation system buy need to use a beacon in each room (northstar cube),thats only downside i see to using it
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "dan michaels" <oric_dan@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I would think you could deal with tile floors by using a
                                  > > > > sponge under the swiffer pad [ie, between pad and holding plate]
                                  > > > > with a grid of cuts going about halfway through the sponge height. That way, the sponge could allow more variation in the swiffer
                                  > > > > pad when going over uneven surfaces.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > > i have tile floors all over my house and i use a swiffer
                                  > > > > > but it does a fair job ,but it does miss some hard spots
                                  > > > > > i would want a robotic cleaner that does both ,scrubs and uses a swiffer> or just one with scrubbing brushes,IROBOT does make one,with a water pump and more
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > with thier design look good using swiffer pads making it low cost without motors and brushes,but will miss hard to clean spots like the SWIFFER MOP does
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, T <famousbots@> wrote:
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > I have a tile floor. Probably would miss a lot of dirt.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Thomas
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Like robots?
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Visit my new site:
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > http://www.robots-and-androids.com
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • dan michaels
                                  ... Too bad. If they went to all the trouble to remove the markings, then they re pretty boggled about trade secrets . Probably wouldn t help to call them and
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Mar 17 8:54 PM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@...> wrote:
                                    >


                                    Too bad. If they went to all the trouble to remove the markings,
                                    then they're pretty boggled about "trade secrets". Probably
                                    wouldn't help to call them and say you represent an amateur
                                    robotics club, and people are interested in hacking the bot the
                                    way 1000s have hacked the roomba.

                                    I don't see why anyone would be worried that others would find
                                    out they're using a PIC or AVR or ARM chip, but the problem may
                                    be they're wanting to keep all info on NorthStar proprietary. Gee,
                                    what if Northstar could be implemented using about 2K of code
                                    space and a Basic Stamp.

                                    It can't be an issue of reverse-engineering the code, because
                                    uCs have read/write-protect features, so you can't steal the code
                                    anyways. Seems like you don't really gain much by going to the
                                    trouble of removing the markings.

                                    OTOH, if someone I knew were going to have a go at the circuit,
                                    they'd probably first check to see if something like an FTDI chip
                                    were connected to the USB connector, and then look at the power,
                                    ground, and xtal connections on the uC to try to place the chip
                                    in one of the common families like PIC or AVR. It'd be a start.
                                    Then, if they were really brash, they could unsolder the uC and
                                    put one of their own replacements in there. Something like that.
                                    Lot of trouble, maybe.


                                    >
                                    > MORE INFO ON HACKING the evolution mint cleaner
                                    > i did find a usb mini port near battery and hook up to usb on my computer,no port came up,so i tried a few buttons,start button ,clean,wet button still no port
                                    > so i open the case and look at pcb board ,top side has the northstar receiver/transmitter plus 3 button and connectors,bottom side has a few chips and cpu and componets,but big problem all are unmarked,looks like they removed all markings or part #
                                    > i could not find any jumpers to turn on usb port
                                    >
                                    > any one have any ideas on finding the usb port #> i know when i plug in the cable it does turn on,but no port # in device manager> on the northstar receiver/transmitter there are 2 pins on one edge and 4 pins on the other
                                    >
                                    > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > PROBLEM IS I AM GREAT WITH ELECTRONICS,but not great in coding
                                    > > that is where the problem is
                                    > > i can find the tx and rx port and make adapter for it
                                    > > and maybe using a terminal program like used for neato XV-11 HACK
                                    > > and it use the "HELP" command,rest i dont know
                                    > >
                                  • jamericanfreddy
                                    only problem of replacing the chip is ,what about the northstar chip very hard to find out how the sensor works or data so for a ROBOTICS BASE to replace the
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Mar 18 10:13 AM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      only problem of replacing the chip is ,what about the northstar chip
                                      very hard to find out how the sensor works or data

                                      so for a ROBOTICS BASE to replace the ROOMBA,doesnt look good

                                      good for a FLOOR CLEANER
                                      ,FOR ME I GOT IT FOR $110 -$22.50 FOR A MISSING CHARGER SO $87.50 TOTAL WITH SHIPPING

                                      --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "dan michaels" <oric_dan@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Too bad. If they went to all the trouble to remove the markings,
                                      > then they're pretty boggled about "trade secrets". Probably
                                      > wouldn't help to call them and say you represent an amateur
                                      > robotics club, and people are interested in hacking the bot the
                                      > way 1000s have hacked the roomba.
                                      >
                                      > I don't see why anyone would be worried that others would find
                                      > out they're using a PIC or AVR or ARM chip, but the problem may
                                      > be they're wanting to keep all info on NorthStar proprietary. Gee,
                                      > what if Northstar could be implemented using about 2K of code
                                      > space and a Basic Stamp.
                                      >
                                      > It can't be an issue of reverse-engineering the code, because
                                      > uCs have read/write-protect features, so you can't steal the code
                                      > anyways. Seems like you don't really gain much by going to the
                                      > trouble of removing the markings.
                                      >
                                      > OTOH, if someone I knew were going to have a go at the circuit,
                                      > they'd probably first check to see if something like an FTDI chip
                                      > were connected to the USB connector, and then look at the power,
                                      > ground, and xtal connections on the uC to try to place the chip
                                      > in one of the common families like PIC or AVR. It'd be a start.
                                      > Then, if they were really brash, they could unsolder the uC and
                                      > put one of their own replacements in there. Something like that.
                                      > Lot of trouble, maybe.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      > > MORE INFO ON HACKING the evolution mint cleaner
                                      > > i did find a usb mini port near battery and hook up to usb on my computer,no port came up,so i tried a few buttons,start button ,clean,wet button still no port
                                      > > so i open the case and look at pcb board ,top side has the northstar receiver/transmitter plus 3 button and connectors,bottom side has a few chips and cpu and componets,but big problem all are unmarked,looks like they removed all markings or part #
                                      > > i could not find any jumpers to turn on usb port
                                      > >
                                      > > any one have any ideas on finding the usb port #> i know when i plug in the cable it does turn on,but no port # in device manager> on the northstar receiver/transmitter there are 2 pins on one edge and 4 pins on the other
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > PROBLEM IS I AM GREAT WITH ELECTRONICS,but not great in coding
                                      > > > that is where the problem is
                                      > > > i can find the tx and rx port and make adapter for it
                                      > > > and maybe using a terminal program like used for neato XV-11 HACK
                                      > > > and it use the "HELP" command,rest i dont know
                                      > > >
                                      >
                                    • jamericanfreddy
                                      USB pins go right to the UC chip and i see the northstar system is just $1500 for only sensor with RS232 board,i think thats why they are code and chip ID
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Mar 18 10:21 AM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        USB pins go right to the UC chip
                                        and i see the northstar system is just $1500 for only sensor with RS232 board,i think thats why they are code and chip ID protected
                                        also on the design i see that have alot of metal plates as weight on the back as ballasts

                                        --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "dan michaels" <oric_dan@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Too bad. If they went to all the trouble to remove the markings,
                                        > then they're pretty boggled about "trade secrets". Probably
                                        > wouldn't help to call them and say you represent an amateur
                                        > robotics club, and people are interested in hacking the bot the
                                        > way 1000s have hacked the roomba.
                                        >
                                        > I don't see why anyone would be worried that others would find
                                        > out they're using a PIC or AVR or ARM chip, but the problem may
                                        > be they're wanting to keep all info on NorthStar proprietary. Gee,
                                        > what if Northstar could be implemented using about 2K of code
                                        > space and a Basic Stamp.
                                        >
                                        > It can't be an issue of reverse-engineering the code, because
                                        > uCs have read/write-protect features, so you can't steal the code
                                        > anyways. Seems like you don't really gain much by going to the
                                        > trouble of removing the markings.
                                        >
                                        > OTOH, if someone I knew were going to have a go at the circuit,
                                        > they'd probably first check to see if something like an FTDI chip
                                        > were connected to the USB connector, and then look at the power,
                                        > ground, and xtal connections on the uC to try to place the chip
                                        > in one of the common families like PIC or AVR. It'd be a start.
                                        > Then, if they were really brash, they could unsolder the uC and
                                        > put one of their own replacements in there. Something like that.
                                        > Lot of trouble, maybe.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > > MORE INFO ON HACKING the evolution mint cleaner
                                        > > i did find a usb mini port near battery and hook up to usb on my computer,no port came up,so i tried a few buttons,start button ,clean,wet button still no port
                                        > > so i open the case and look at pcb board ,top side has the northstar receiver/transmitter plus 3 button and connectors,bottom side has a few chips and cpu and componets,but big problem all are unmarked,looks like they removed all markings or part #
                                        > > i could not find any jumpers to turn on usb port
                                        > >
                                        > > any one have any ideas on finding the usb port #> i know when i plug in the cable it does turn on,but no port # in device manager> on the northstar receiver/transmitter there are 2 pins on one edge and 4 pins on the other
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > PROBLEM IS I AM GREAT WITH ELECTRONICS,but not great in coding
                                        > > > that is where the problem is
                                        > > > i can find the tx and rx port and make adapter for it
                                        > > > and maybe using a terminal program like used for neato XV-11 HACK
                                        > > > and it use the "HELP" command,rest i dont know
                                        > > >
                                        >
                                      • dan michaels
                                        ... Considering they are giving away Northstar for a fraction of the regular cost, they likely want to protect their IP. Doesn t sound very hopeful in regards
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Mar 18 11:40 AM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > USB pins go right to the UC chip
                                          > and i see the northstar system is just $1500 for only sensor with RS232 board,i think thats why they are code and chip ID protected
                                          > also on the design i see that have alot of metal plates as weight on the back as ballasts
                                          >


                                          Considering they are giving away Northstar for a fraction of the
                                          regular cost, they likely want to protect their IP. Doesn't sound
                                          very hopeful in regards hacking it on one's own.

                                          OTOH, maybe they're interested in opening the API, like with roomba,
                                          so people can attach to it.





                                          > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "dan michaels" <oric_dan@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Too bad. If they went to all the trouble to remove the markings,
                                          > > then they're pretty boggled about "trade secrets". Probably
                                          > > wouldn't help to call them and say you represent an amateur
                                          > > robotics club, and people are interested in hacking the bot the
                                          > > way 1000s have hacked the roomba.
                                          > >
                                          > > I don't see why anyone would be worried that others would find
                                          > > out they're using a PIC or AVR or ARM chip, but the problem may
                                          > > be they're wanting to keep all info on NorthStar proprietary. Gee,
                                          > > what if Northstar could be implemented using about 2K of code
                                          > > space and a Basic Stamp.
                                          > >
                                          > > It can't be an issue of reverse-engineering the code, because
                                          > > uCs have read/write-protect features, so you can't steal the code
                                          > > anyways. Seems like you don't really gain much by going to the
                                          > > trouble of removing the markings.
                                          > >
                                          > > OTOH, if someone I knew were going to have a go at the circuit,
                                          > > they'd probably first check to see if something like an FTDI chip
                                          > > were connected to the USB connector, and then look at the power,
                                          > > ground, and xtal connections on the uC to try to place the chip
                                          > > in one of the common families like PIC or AVR. It'd be a start.
                                          > > Then, if they were really brash, they could unsolder the uC and
                                          > > put one of their own replacements in there. Something like that.
                                          > > Lot of trouble, maybe.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > MORE INFO ON HACKING the evolution mint cleaner
                                          > > > i did find a usb mini port near battery and hook up to usb on my computer,no port came up,so i tried a few buttons,start button ,clean,wet button still no port
                                          > > > so i open the case and look at pcb board ,top side has the northstar receiver/transmitter plus 3 button and connectors,bottom side has a few chips and cpu and componets,but big problem all are unmarked,looks like they removed all markings or part #
                                          > > > i could not find any jumpers to turn on usb port
                                          > > >
                                          > > > any one have any ideas on finding the usb port #> i know when i plug in the cable it does turn on,but no port # in device manager> on the northstar receiver/transmitter there are 2 pins on one edge and 4 pins on the other
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > PROBLEM IS I AM GREAT WITH ELECTRONICS,but not great in coding
                                          > > > > that is where the problem is
                                          > > > > i can find the tx and rx port and make adapter for it
                                          > > > > and maybe using a terminal program like used for neato XV-11 HACK
                                          > > > > and it use the "HELP" command,rest i dont know
                                          > > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • jamericanfreddy
                                          i can send a email i tried on the NEATO xv-11 and they wouldnt do it,thinking the same for this one also they say why ,they dont wont others to know the
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Mar 18 12:40 PM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            i can send a email
                                            i tried on the NEATO xv-11 and they wouldnt do it,thinking the same for this one
                                            also they say why ,they dont wont others to know the technology

                                            also i think the sensor they are using is a low cost version of the $1500 one they sell
                                            it sells for about $200 new,and company most likely build it for about $50 in parts,and sold it to venders for about $100 so they can make a profit,retailers make the biggest profit
                                            so sensor maybe $20

                                            --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "dan michaels" <oric_dan@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > USB pins go right to the UC chip
                                            > > and i see the northstar system is just $1500 for only sensor with RS232 board,i think thats why they are code and chip ID protected
                                            > > also on the design i see that have alot of metal plates as weight on the back as ballasts
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Considering they are giving away Northstar for a fraction of the
                                            > regular cost, they likely want to protect their IP. Doesn't sound
                                            > very hopeful in regards hacking it on one's own.
                                            >
                                            > OTOH, maybe they're interested in opening the API, like with roomba,
                                            > so people can attach to it.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "dan michaels" <oric_dan@> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Too bad. If they went to all the trouble to remove the markings,
                                            > > > then they're pretty boggled about "trade secrets". Probably
                                            > > > wouldn't help to call them and say you represent an amateur
                                            > > > robotics club, and people are interested in hacking the bot the
                                            > > > way 1000s have hacked the roomba.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I don't see why anyone would be worried that others would find
                                            > > > out they're using a PIC or AVR or ARM chip, but the problem may
                                            > > > be they're wanting to keep all info on NorthStar proprietary. Gee,
                                            > > > what if Northstar could be implemented using about 2K of code
                                            > > > space and a Basic Stamp.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > It can't be an issue of reverse-engineering the code, because
                                            > > > uCs have read/write-protect features, so you can't steal the code
                                            > > > anyways. Seems like you don't really gain much by going to the
                                            > > > trouble of removing the markings.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > OTOH, if someone I knew were going to have a go at the circuit,
                                            > > > they'd probably first check to see if something like an FTDI chip
                                            > > > were connected to the USB connector, and then look at the power,
                                            > > > ground, and xtal connections on the uC to try to place the chip
                                            > > > in one of the common families like PIC or AVR. It'd be a start.
                                            > > > Then, if they were really brash, they could unsolder the uC and
                                            > > > put one of their own replacements in there. Something like that.
                                            > > > Lot of trouble, maybe.
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > MORE INFO ON HACKING the evolution mint cleaner
                                            > > > > i did find a usb mini port near battery and hook up to usb on my computer,no port came up,so i tried a few buttons,start button ,clean,wet button still no port
                                            > > > > so i open the case and look at pcb board ,top side has the northstar receiver/transmitter plus 3 button and connectors,bottom side has a few chips and cpu and componets,but big problem all are unmarked,looks like they removed all markings or part #
                                            > > > > i could not find any jumpers to turn on usb port
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > any one have any ideas on finding the usb port #> i know when i plug in the cable it does turn on,but no port # in device manager> on the northstar receiver/transmitter there are 2 pins on one edge and 4 pins on the other
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "jamericanfreddy" <jamericanfreddy@> wrote:
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > PROBLEM IS I AM GREAT WITH ELECTRONICS,but not great in coding
                                            > > > > > that is where the problem is
                                            > > > > > i can find the tx and rx port and make adapter for it
                                            > > > > > and maybe using a terminal program like used for neato XV-11 HACK
                                            > > > > > and it use the "HELP" command,rest i dont know
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            >
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