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Re: [SeattleRobotics] Level 1 kit: programmer is not responding

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  • Cathy Saxton
    Unless it s changed, the kit comes with a parallel port programmer. (Technically, it does serial bit-banging over the parallel port, but it s referred to as a
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 9, 2010
      Unless it's changed, the kit comes with a parallel port programmer.
      (Technically, it does serial bit-banging over the parallel port, but
      it's referred to as a parallel port programmer.)

      If the kit has changed, I'm sure someone with more current knowledge
      will jump in here...

      Otherwise, connect the 25-pin connector to your computer's parallel
      port and use 'bascom' for the programmer.

      Cathy

      On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 7:27 AM, Jason Hsu, embedded engineer, Linux
      user <jhsu802701@...> wrote:
      > I bought the robot kit this past spring.  I'm using an actual serial port.  Does this mean I should stick with avrisp?
      >
      > Am I dealing with a software problem or hardware problem?  I know I need to troubleshoot, but that requires understanding the mechanism, which I don't, as this is my first time working with either an AVR microcontroller AND my first time working with in-circuit programming.  (My embedded engineering experience so far has been programming Microchip microcontrollers with the PICSTART Plus microcontroller.)
      >
      > On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 22:40:34 -0700
      > Cathy Saxton <cathysaxton@...> wrote:
      >
      >> You may need to use avrisp2. How recently did you buy the unit? Is it
      >> serial or USB? (If serial, avrisp is probably right, at which point
      >> I'd start looking for help with the Linux-serial stuff.) Is it's USB,
      >> try avrisp2...
      >>
      >
      > --
      > Jason Hsu
      > http://www.jasonhsu.com/ee.html
      > http://www.jasonhsu.com/swrwatt.html
      > http://embeddedengineer.wordpress.com/
      > http://www.jasonhsu.com/linux.html
      >
    • Mike Payson
      As far as I know, the only change that Jim made to the basic kit was to convert from the old style 10-pin ISP connectors to the new 6-pin ones. The included
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 9, 2010
        As far as I know, the only change that Jim made to the basic kit was
        to convert from the old style 10-pin ISP connectors to the new 6-pin
        ones. The included programmer is still the same basic thing, just uses
        fewer pins.

        On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 3:53 PM, Cathy Saxton <cathysaxton@...> wrote:
        > Unless it's changed, the kit comes with a parallel port programmer.
        > (Technically, it does serial bit-banging over the parallel port, but
        > it's referred to as a parallel port programmer.)
        >
        > If the kit has changed, I'm sure someone with more current knowledge
        > will jump in here...
        >
        > Otherwise, connect the 25-pin connector to your computer's parallel
        > port and use 'bascom' for the programmer.
        >
        > Cathy
        >
        > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 7:27 AM, Jason Hsu, embedded engineer, Linux
        > user <jhsu802701@...> wrote:
        >> I bought the robot kit this past spring.  I'm using an actual serial port.  Does this mean I should stick with avrisp?
        >>
        >> Am I dealing with a software problem or hardware problem?  I know I need to troubleshoot, but that requires understanding the mechanism, which I don't, as this is my first time working with either an AVR microcontroller AND my first time working with in-circuit programming.  (My embedded engineering experience so far has been programming Microchip microcontrollers with the PICSTART Plus microcontroller.)
        >>
        >> On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 22:40:34 -0700
        >> Cathy Saxton <cathysaxton@...> wrote:
        >>
        >>> You may need to use avrisp2. How recently did you buy the unit? Is it
        >>> serial or USB? (If serial, avrisp is probably right, at which point
        >>> I'd start looking for help with the Linux-serial stuff.) Is it's USB,
        >>> try avrisp2...
        >>>
        >>
        >> --
        >> Jason Hsu
        >> http://www.jasonhsu.com/ee.html
        >> http://www.jasonhsu.com/swrwatt.html
        >> http://embeddedengineer.wordpress.com/
        >> http://www.jasonhsu.com/linux.html
        >>
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Jason Hsu, embedded engineer, Linux user
        On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 22:40:34 -0700 ... I changed the value of AVRDUDE_PROGRAMMER from avrisp to avrisp2. The error message changes to:
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 10, 2010
          On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 22:40:34 -0700
          Cathy Saxton <cathysaxton@...> wrote:

          > You may need to use avrisp2. How recently did you buy the unit? Is it
          > serial or USB? (If serial, avrisp is probably right, at which point
          > I'd start looking for help with the Linux-serial stuff.) Is it's USB,
          > try avrisp2...
          >
          I changed the value of AVRDUDE_PROGRAMMER from avrisp to avrisp2. The error message changes to:
          avrdude:stk500_2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout

          With AVRDUDE_PORT = /dev/ttyS0 and AVRDUDE_PROGRAMMER = avrisp, the error message I get when I enter the "make program" command is:
          avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding

          With AVRDUDE_PORT = /dev/ttyS0 and AVRDUDE_PROGRAMMER = avrisp2, the error message I get when I enter the "make program" command is:
          avrdude:stk500_2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout

          What is the next step? It sounds like the programmer is getting the message but hanging. I think I'm closer to getting things working. (I hope.)

          --
          Jason Hsu
          http://www.jasonhsu.com/ee.html
          http://www.jasonhsu.com/swrwatt.html
          http://embeddedengineer.wordpress.com/
          http://www.jasonhsu.com/linux.html
        • Erik Knise
          You have the board powered up correct? Have you tried the parallel port programmer that came with the kit? After all of these years I ve only used a STK500
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 11, 2010
            You have the board powered up correct?

            Have you tried the parallel port programmer that came with the kit?  After all of these years I've only used a STK500 and an avrisp a few times.  The parallel port programmer has never caused me any grief except now I don't own a laptop without a parallel port.

            You should check your fuse bits.  If avrdude can't read them back from your chip you probably have a bad chip, it's soldered in backwards, or there is a bad/missing solder joint somewhere.  This tutorial is actually done by a linux user: http://electrons.psychogenic.com/modules/arms/art/14/AVRFusesHOWTOGuide.php


            On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 10:50 PM, Jason Hsu, embedded engineer, Linux user <jhsu802701@...> wrote:
             

            On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 22:40:34 -0700
            Cathy Saxton <cathysaxton@...> wrote:

            > You may need to use avrisp2. How recently did you buy the unit? Is it
            > serial or USB? (If serial, avrisp is probably right, at which point
            > I'd start looking for help with the Linux-serial stuff.) Is it's USB,
            > try avrisp2...
            >
            I changed the value of AVRDUDE_PROGRAMMER from avrisp to avrisp2. The error message changes to:
            avrdude:stk500_2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout

            With AVRDUDE_PORT = /dev/ttyS0 and AVRDUDE_PROGRAMMER = avrisp, the error message I get when I enter the "make program" command is:

            avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding

            With AVRDUDE_PORT = /dev/ttyS0 and AVRDUDE_PROGRAMMER = avrisp2, the error message I get when I enter the "make program" command is:
            avrdude:stk500_2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout

            What is the next step? It sounds like the programmer is getting the message but hanging. I think I'm closer to getting things working. (I hope.)

            --

            __

            --
            Erik L. Knise
            Pacific Shipping Company
            Seattle, WA
          • Jason Hsu, embedded engineer, Linux user
            I have the board powered up, as confirmed by the lighting of the red LED. Continuity checking confirmed that each of the relevant DB25 pins is properly
            Message 5 of 13 , Jul 11, 2010
              I have the board powered up, as confirmed by the lighting of the red LED.

              Continuity checking confirmed that each of the relevant DB25 pins is properly connected to the appropriate pin of the microcontroller. The same also applies to the DB9 pins and MAX232 IC. I attempt to program the microcontroller with BOTH the serial and parallel ports connected.

              The makefile selects the fuse bits. I have a difficult time believing that incorrect fuse bits are my problem here. If they're like the configuration bits of the PIC microcontrollers, incorrect fuse bits would only affect what goes on in the circuit, not whether the program actually makes it there in the first place.

              That said, I tried the "avrdude -c stk500 -p m8 -P /dev/ttyS0 -U hfuse:r:high.txt -U lfuse:r:low.txt" command and kept getting timed out.

              Can anyone here describe to me exactly what the cryptic error messages I've been getting mean? Are my interpretations correct, or am I wrong? How do I tell if I'm having a hardware problem or software problem? I have no idea what I'm doing.

              I can't troubleshoot when I don't even know how everything is supposed to work.

              On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 09:36:46 -0700
              Erik Knise <elknise@...> wrote:

              > You have the board powered up correct?
              >
              > Have you tried the parallel port programmer that came with the kit? After
              > all of these years I've only used a STK500 and an avrisp a few times. The
              > parallel port programmer has never caused me any grief except now I don't
              > own a laptop without a parallel port.
              >
              > You should check your fuse bits. If avrdude can't read them back from your
              > chip you probably have a bad chip, it's soldered in backwards, or there is a
              > bad/missing solder joint somewhere. This tutorial is actually done by a
              > linux user:
              > http://electrons.psychogenic.com/modules/arms/art/14/AVRFusesHOWTOGuide.php
              >
              >


              --
              Jason Hsu
              http://www.jasonhsu.com/ee.html
              http://www.jasonhsu.com/swrwatt.html
              http://embeddedengineer.wordpress.com/
              http://www.jasonhsu.com/linux.html
            • Jason Hsu, embedded engineer, Linux user
              I looked for tutorials on the ATmega 16. The one at http://kartikmohta.com/wiki/Tech/ATmega16Programmer shows different pin-outs in the DB25 (for SPI) than
              Message 6 of 13 , Jul 11, 2010
                I looked for tutorials on the ATmega 16. The one at http://kartikmohta.com/wiki/Tech/ATmega16Programmer shows different pin-outs in the DB25 (for SPI) than the one for the robot kit.

                Does the Seattle Robotic Society robot kit use SPI? I2C? UART? Some other standard? I have no idea what's going on here.

                --
                Jason Hsu
                http://www.jasonhsu.com/ee.html
                http://www.jasonhsu.com/swrwatt.html
                http://embeddedengineer.wordpress.com/
                http://www.jasonhsu.com/linux.html
              • Jason Hsu, embedded engineer, Linux user
                Do I need to purchase an Atmel programmer? According to the instructions, some people need to buy an AVR-ISP programmer. Is this the case for me? It sounds
                Message 7 of 13 , Jul 11, 2010
                  Do I need to purchase an Atmel programmer? According to the instructions, some people need to buy an AVR-ISP programmer. Is this the case for me? It sounds like those using Windows can use the programmer included in the kit while those using a Mac or a Windows computer lacking a parallel port must purchase a programmer.

                  That said, I want to make sure I actually need a programmer before I buy one. I would hate to buy it, wait for it, and pay for it only to find out that it wasn't necessary.

                  --
                  Jason Hsu
                  http://www.jasonhsu.com/ee.html
                  http://www.jasonhsu.com/swrwatt.html
                  http://embeddedengineer.wordpress.com/
                  http://www.jasonhsu.com/linux.html
                • Mike Payson
                  Jason, I m not a programmer, so I can only give you some basic advice. I can assure you that the Parallel programmer included with the SRS kit does work, we
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jul 12, 2010
                    Jason,

                    I'm not a programmer, so I can only give you some basic advice. I can
                    assure you that the Parallel programmer included with the SRS kit does
                    work, we have sold hundreds of those kits over the years, so the basic
                    design is fine.

                    Are you trying to use a USB to Parallel adapter by chance? If so, that
                    is your problem. Unfortunately, they do not implement a "real"
                    parallel port, only the features that are required for printers. This
                    is not a limitation of the SRS kit, but of the USB Adapters. You will
                    run into the same problem with many more advanced applications of the
                    parallel port such as running CNC machines (computer controlled
                    milling machines, for example). If that is your problem, you have two
                    choices. Either use a different computer that includes a real parallel
                    port, or buy a true USB ISP programmer.

                    If you want a USB programmer, this one is a good value:
                    http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/commerce/commerce_index.php

                    Unlike many of the inexpensive USB programmers, that one will program
                    pretty much all of ATMega's chips including the newer AVR32 line that
                    are not ISP compatible.

                    Hope this helps.
                    Mike

                    On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 11:04 PM, Jason Hsu, embedded engineer, Linux
                    user <jhsu802701@...> wrote:
                    > I looked for tutorials on the ATmega 16.  The one at http://kartikmohta.com/wiki/Tech/ATmega16Programmer shows different pin-outs in the DB25 (for SPI) than the one for the robot kit.
                    >
                    > Does the Seattle Robotic Society robot kit use SPI?  I2C?  UART?  Some other standard?  I have no idea what's going on here.
                    >
                    > --
                    > Jason Hsu
                    > http://www.jasonhsu.com/ee.html
                    > http://www.jasonhsu.com/swrwatt.html
                    > http://embeddedengineer.wordpress.com/
                    > http://www.jasonhsu.com/linux.html
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.orgYahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Jason Hsu, embedded engineer, Linux user
                    I m using an actual parallel port and an actual serial port. So this isn t an issue. -- Jason Hsu http://www.jasonhsu.com/ee.html
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jul 12, 2010
                      I'm using an actual parallel port and an actual serial port. So this isn't an issue.

                      --
                      Jason Hsu
                      http://www.jasonhsu.com/ee.html
                      http://www.jasonhsu.com/swrwatt.html
                      http://embeddedengineer.wordpress.com/
                      http://www.jasonhsu.com/linux.html
                    • Richard Greenway
                      Judging from the errors that you posted to the SRS Monday Night Chat service, You are trying to talk to the parallel port programmer but addressing it as a
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jul 12, 2010
                        Judging from the errors that you posted to the SRS Monday Night Chat
                        service,
                        You are trying to talk to the parallel port programmer but addressing it
                        as a Serial port (ttyS0) instead of the printer port (lpt0)

                        10:08pm jhsu> With AVRDUDE_PROGRAMMER = avrisp and AVRDUDE_PORT =
                        /dev/ttyS0,
                        I get the message "avrdude:stk500_2_ReceiveMessage():
                        timeout" when
                        I enter "make program".


                        It is a parallel port programmer, and the AVRDUDE_PORT = will need to
                        be corrected to be directed to a parallel port instead of a serial port.


                        As for:

                        "Does the Seattle Robotic Society robot kit use SPI? I2C? UART? Some other standard? I have no idea what's going on here."
                        It uses a modified version of the SPI protocol as defined by Atmel for use as an ISP programming protocol. To call it anything but Atmel ISP is to just cause confusion.

                        Richard
                        (Fenchurch on Monday Night Chat)









                        On 7/12/2010 7:20 AM, Jason Hsu, embedded engineer, Linux user wrote:
                        > I'm using an actual parallel port and an actual serial port. So this isn't an issue.
                        >
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