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Re: [SeattleRobotics] Motor power supply

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  • The Earl
    If you are using a package system w/ slack, then Gentoo will act similar except it will compile all packages before installing them. With slack, i tended to
    Message 1 of 23 , Feb 1, 2006
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      If you are using a package system w/ slack, then Gentoo will act
      similar except it will compile all packages before installing them.

      With slack, i tended to build most packages from source. It allows
      faster and tighter code that is optimized for your processor, rather
      than the default i586 compiled packages. Gentoo can build all of the
      system from scratch, getting the optimization for everything including
      GCC, GlibC and whatever else.

      I am moving to Gentoo from Slack b/c I can get a compact and fast
      system with apt-get (emerge) functionality that can still keep track
      of my oddball software installed from source. Since Gentoo installs
      from source anyway, it is a simple matter to tell emerge about the
      software you downloaded and compiled. Then you have nice clean
      uninstall capability and upgrade. You also can farm the compilation
      off to a set of machines to run faster.

      The biggest difference I have found between the two is Gentoo's use of
      PAM. I found a good tutorial on how to remove it, so I dont have to
      meddle with it on my systems. I dont like PAM b/c it seems to break a
      lot of things. I doged a lot of security holes w/ Slack b/c they were
      related to PAM like SSH.

      I dont normally run a GUI on my Gentoo systems, so I dont know how
      involved that is. I didnt have any trouble with a stage-0 install my
      first time, so I would give it a try....

      Gentoo also gave me some insight on how to cross-build a system. I
      think I could, with a lot of trial and error, build a MIPS system on a
      i86 platform and at least get it to boot. That would be really usefull
      for CF based systems, since I could create the CF image on a much more
      powerful machine, then move it to the embedded system to run.

      Anyway, I have used Slack for over a decade, and I love it, but Gentoo
      solves a lot of the problems with Slack, and allows me a bit more
      flexibility in what I do with it.

      On 1/31/06, Eljin ljohnson-at-accessnet.com |6812-the|
      <...> wrote:
      > Way cool site. I bookmarked it immediately. I was very glad to see that
      > you had included the OAP site.
      >
      > What you are doing with the memory cards is exactly what I was trying to
      > do with a couple of thumb drives recently.
      >
      > Why Gentoo? I'm interested, cause I'm using Slackware and want to see if
      > there is anything better out there.
      > I've heard of Gentoo before and just haven't had a chance to check it
      > out yet.
      >
      > michael@... wrote:
      >
      > >On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Eljin wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >>OAP Wiki site for Lee Johnson
      > >><http://www.openautomaton.org/community/LeeJohnson?action=show>
      > >>http://www.openautomaton.org/community/LeeJohnson?action=show
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > >Thanks. I'll check it out from home.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >>This will take you to the OAP WIKI site and my spot there specifically.
      > >>I've got a running description of what I've done with the building of this
      > >>one.
      > >>
      > >>To answer your question though, it's running off a stripped down UPS.
      > >>
      > >>If I could ask, how much was your DC-DC converter and where did you get it?
      > >>
      > >>
      > >M1-ATX power supply $ 62. I got it from a local vendor (Leadman), but I
      > >know they are available on the web. Originally I had a much less
      > >expensive version but its input was limited to 12VDC. I changed to the
      > >fancier M1 because it can sustain charging voltage of 13.8 and also it
      > >survives brownouts better.
      > >
      > >I did this so my robot could have the charger normally hooked up,
      > >charging the battery, but when someone logs in and runs a program to
      > >move the robot (it's live on the Internet and people can log in anytime
      > >to compile and run programs) it can disconnect and roam around. A future
      > >project is to construct a docking station so after roaming it can be
      > >programmed to find its way back and plug itself in. Right now, it will
      > >just roam for a couple of hours and then die, unless someone is at home
      > >to plug it in.
      > >
      > >Mine is described at www.linuxrobots.org/wiki/michael_shiloh
      > >
      > >Michael
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >>Eljin
      > >>
      > >>michael@... wrote:
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>>Excellent! Same as me (Linux, Little Tykes.) I think those motors draw
      > >>>less than an amp normally, and a couple of amps when stalled.
      > >>>
      > >>>So how do you power the ATX power supply with? An inverter? Or is this a
      > >>>tethered robot? Or is this ATX supply a DC to DC device as someone else
      > >>>suggested?
      > >>>
      > >>>I would be very reluctant to power those motors from the same power
      > >>>supply that is powering the motherboard.
      > >>>
      > >>>My robot is untethered. I use a pair of gell cells: one for the motors
      > >>>and interface electronics (which have their own regulators), and one
      > >>>for the DC to DC ATX power supply which is used for the motherboard
      > >>>and CF card alone.
      > >>>
      > >>>I'd be interested in seeing pics and/or more about your robot (offlist
      > >>>if people prefer).
      > >>>
      > >>>Michael
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Eljin wrote:
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>>Linux absolutely! Wouldn't run anything else.
      > >>>>
      > >>>>As far as motor current, I don't have the specs on the motors, so I
      > >>>>couldn't actually tell you.
      > >>>>I do know that I pulled them out of a couple of those Little Tykes ride
      > >>>>on toys. I'm certain they can't pull more
      > >>>>current than the power supply is capable of. I'm more worried about
      > >>>>starting and stopping current draws and
      > >>>>especially any noise that they will create getting back into the
      > >>>>motherboard.
      > >>>>
      > >>>>Eljin
      > >>>>michael@... wrote:
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>>>How much current do your motors draw? Does your robot ever stall? (my robot does
      > >>>>>very often, so I had to take this into account.)
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>I'm in the process of redoing my robot power supply so these thoughts
      > >>>>>are very much in my head.
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>What are you running on the PC? (Not related to the power supply
      > >>>>>question - just curious. I run Linux)
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>M
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Eljin wrote:
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>I'm running an ATX power supply feeding a PC motherboard on my robot.
      > >>>>>>My power supply for my motors went belly up and I had an idea to save
      > >>>>>>some weight on the bot. My problem is I'm not sure how much interference
      > >>>>>>I'm going to get from it.
      > >>>>>>I'm thinking of running the motors from a couple of the 12vDC lines on
      > >>>>>>the ATX
      > >>>>>>supply.
      > >>>>>>Any thoughts?
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>Thanks in advance.
      > >>>>>>Eljin
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
      > >>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
      > >>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
      > >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
      > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>
      > >>Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
      > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
      > >Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Eljin
      That s really good information. I appreciate that and I ll look into it. Thanks Eljin
      Message 2 of 23 , Feb 1, 2006
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        That's really good information. I appreciate that and I'll look into it.
        Thanks
        Eljin

        The Earl wrote:

        >If you are using a package system w/ slack, then Gentoo will act
        >similar except it will compile all packages before installing them.
        >
        >With slack, i tended to build most packages from source. It allows
        >faster and tighter code that is optimized for your processor, rather
        >than the default i586 compiled packages. Gentoo can build all of the
        >system from scratch, getting the optimization for everything including
        >GCC, GlibC and whatever else.
        >
        >I am moving to Gentoo from Slack b/c I can get a compact and fast
        >system with apt-get (emerge) functionality that can still keep track
        >of my oddball software installed from source. Since Gentoo installs
        >from source anyway, it is a simple matter to tell emerge about the
        >software you downloaded and compiled. Then you have nice clean
        >uninstall capability and upgrade. You also can farm the compilation
        >off to a set of machines to run faster.
        >
        >The biggest difference I have found between the two is Gentoo's use of
        >PAM. I found a good tutorial on how to remove it, so I dont have to
        >meddle with it on my systems. I dont like PAM b/c it seems to break a
        >lot of things. I doged a lot of security holes w/ Slack b/c they were
        >related to PAM like SSH.
        >
        >I dont normally run a GUI on my Gentoo systems, so I dont know how
        >involved that is. I didnt have any trouble with a stage-0 install my
        >first time, so I would give it a try....
        >
        >Gentoo also gave me some insight on how to cross-build a system. I
        >think I could, with a lot of trial and error, build a MIPS system on a
        >i86 platform and at least get it to boot. That would be really usefull
        >for CF based systems, since I could create the CF image on a much more
        >powerful machine, then move it to the embedded system to run.
        >
        >Anyway, I have used Slack for over a decade, and I love it, but Gentoo
        >solves a lot of the problems with Slack, and allows me a bit more
        >flexibility in what I do with it.
        >
        >On 1/31/06, Eljin ljohnson-at-accessnet.com |6812-the|
        ><...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >>Way cool site. I bookmarked it immediately. I was very glad to see that
        >>you had included the OAP site.
        >>
        >>What you are doing with the memory cards is exactly what I was trying to
        >>do with a couple of thumb drives recently.
        >>
        >>Why Gentoo? I'm interested, cause I'm using Slackware and want to see if
        >>there is anything better out there.
        >>I've heard of Gentoo before and just haven't had a chance to check it
        >>out yet.
        >>
        >>michael@... wrote:
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>>On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Eljin wrote:
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>OAP Wiki site for Lee Johnson
        >>>><http://www.openautomaton.org/community/LeeJohnson?action=show>
        >>>>http://www.openautomaton.org/community/LeeJohnson?action=show
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>Thanks. I'll check it out from home.
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>This will take you to the OAP WIKI site and my spot there specifically.
        >>>>I've got a running description of what I've done with the building of this
        >>>>one.
        >>>>
        >>>>To answer your question though, it's running off a stripped down UPS.
        >>>>
        >>>>If I could ask, how much was your DC-DC converter and where did you get it?
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>M1-ATX power supply $ 62. I got it from a local vendor (Leadman), but I
        >>>know they are available on the web. Originally I had a much less
        >>>expensive version but its input was limited to 12VDC. I changed to the
        >>>fancier M1 because it can sustain charging voltage of 13.8 and also it
        >>>survives brownouts better.
        >>>
        >>>I did this so my robot could have the charger normally hooked up,
        >>>charging the battery, but when someone logs in and runs a program to
        >>>move the robot (it's live on the Internet and people can log in anytime
        >>>to compile and run programs) it can disconnect and roam around. A future
        >>>project is to construct a docking station so after roaming it can be
        >>>programmed to find its way back and plug itself in. Right now, it will
        >>>just roam for a couple of hours and then die, unless someone is at home
        >>>to plug it in.
        >>>
        >>>Mine is described at www.linuxrobots.org/wiki/michael_shiloh
        >>>
        >>>Michael
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>Eljin
        >>>>
        >>>>michael@... wrote:
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>>Excellent! Same as me (Linux, Little Tykes.) I think those motors draw
        >>>>>less than an amp normally, and a couple of amps when stalled.
        >>>>>
        >>>>>So how do you power the ATX power supply with? An inverter? Or is this a
        >>>>>tethered robot? Or is this ATX supply a DC to DC device as someone else
        >>>>>suggested?
        >>>>>
        >>>>>I would be very reluctant to power those motors from the same power
        >>>>>supply that is powering the motherboard.
        >>>>>
        >>>>>My robot is untethered. I use a pair of gell cells: one for the motors
        >>>>>and interface electronics (which have their own regulators), and one
        >>>>>for the DC to DC ATX power supply which is used for the motherboard
        >>>>>and CF card alone.
        >>>>>
        >>>>>I'd be interested in seeing pics and/or more about your robot (offlist
        >>>>>if people prefer).
        >>>>>
        >>>>>Michael
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Eljin wrote:
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>>Linux absolutely! Wouldn't run anything else.
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>As far as motor current, I don't have the specs on the motors, so I
        >>>>>>couldn't actually tell you.
        >>>>>>I do know that I pulled them out of a couple of those Little Tykes ride
        >>>>>>on toys. I'm certain they can't pull more
        >>>>>>current than the power supply is capable of. I'm more worried about
        >>>>>>starting and stopping current draws and
        >>>>>>especially any noise that they will create getting back into the
        >>>>>>motherboard.
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>Eljin
        >>>>>>michael@... wrote:
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>>How much current do your motors draw? Does your robot ever stall? (my robot does
        >>>>>>>very often, so I had to take this into account.)
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>I'm in the process of redoing my robot power supply so these thoughts
        >>>>>>>are very much in my head.
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>What are you running on the PC? (Not related to the power supply
        >>>>>>>question - just curious. I run Linux)
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>M
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Eljin wrote:
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>>I'm running an ATX power supply feeding a PC motherboard on my robot.
        >>>>>>>>My power supply for my motors went belly up and I had an idea to save
        >>>>>>>>some weight on the bot. My problem is I'm not sure how much interference
        >>>>>>>>I'm going to get from it.
        >>>>>>>>I'm thinking of running the motors from a couple of the 12vDC lines on
        >>>>>>>>the ATX
        >>>>>>>>supply.
        >>>>>>>>Any thoughts?
        >>>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>>Thanks in advance.
        >>>>>>>>Eljin
        >>>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>>Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
        >>>>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
        >>>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
        >>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
        >>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
        >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
        >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>
        >>Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
        >>Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • michael@michaelshiloh.com
        Triffid, I too am looking at migrating my robot to Gumstix. Let s keep in touch. Michael
        Message 3 of 23 , Feb 1, 2006
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          Triffid,

          I too am looking at migrating my robot to Gumstix. Let's keep in touch.

          Michael


          On Thu, 2 Feb 2006, Triffid Hunter wrote:

          > Eljin wrote:
          >> Why Gentoo? I'm interested, cause I'm using Slackware and want to see if
          >> there is anything better out there.
          >> I've heard of Gentoo before and just haven't had a chance to check it
          >> out yet.
          >
          > I'm another gentoo user... came to gentoo when I got sick of having to compile
          > so many things by hand on debian just to get the options I wanted.. Gentoo
          > automates the selection of compile time options very successfully :)
          >
          > Also, gentoo doesn't get in the way of administrating things nearly as much..
          > I've found that debian has a bad habit of silently overwriting critical files
          > such as libGL.so and grub.conf, whereas gentoo saves new ones in protected
          > dirs with special names, and provides a program that diffs them against your
          > existing config, and allows you to use new, use old, merge, or ignore.
          >
          > Gentoo is also the only linux distribution I've ever used which hasn't tied
          > itself into knots and gone belly up within 6 months of install.
          >
          > compiling the gnu m68hc11 toolchain was a breeze on gentoo...
          >
          > There's also the fact that gentoo seems to have far more and much better
          > documentation than any other distro, and a wider bell curve of knowledge
          > amongst the userbase.. check out gentoo-wiki.com as an example
          >
          > I'm planning on getting a gumstix soon, and making all programs for it with
          > gentoo's portage, which has a simple option for creating binary packages for
          > other systems.
          >
          > -Triffid Hunter
          >
          >
          > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Triffid Hunter
          ... I m another gentoo user... came to gentoo when I got sick of having to compile so many things by hand on debian just to get the options I wanted.. Gentoo
          Message 4 of 23 , Feb 1, 2006
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            Eljin wrote:
            > Why Gentoo? I'm interested, cause I'm using Slackware and want to see if
            > there is anything better out there.
            > I've heard of Gentoo before and just haven't had a chance to check it
            > out yet.

            I'm another gentoo user... came to gentoo when I got sick of having to compile
            so many things by hand on debian just to get the options I wanted.. Gentoo
            automates the selection of compile time options very successfully :)

            Also, gentoo doesn't get in the way of administrating things nearly as much..
            I've found that debian has a bad habit of silently overwriting critical files
            such as libGL.so and grub.conf, whereas gentoo saves new ones in protected
            dirs with special names, and provides a program that diffs them against your
            existing config, and allows you to use new, use old, merge, or ignore.

            Gentoo is also the only linux distribution I've ever used which hasn't tied
            itself into knots and gone belly up within 6 months of install.

            compiling the gnu m68hc11 toolchain was a breeze on gentoo...

            There's also the fact that gentoo seems to have far more and much better
            documentation than any other distro, and a wider bell curve of knowledge
            amongst the userbase.. check out gentoo-wiki.com as an example

            I'm planning on getting a gumstix soon, and making all programs for it with
            gentoo's portage, which has a simple option for creating binary packages for
            other systems.

            -Triffid Hunter
          • Charles Holzschuh
            I ll bet it can be done. Look into snubber circuits and using transisters to control inductive load circuits. Motors kick back so you have to treat them with
            Message 5 of 23 , Feb 2, 2006
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              I'll bet it can be done. Look into snubber circuits
              and using transisters to control inductive load
              circuits. Motors kick back so you have to treat them
              with care.

              --- Eljin <ljohnson@...> wrote:

              > I have an oddball setup. I didn't mention it before.
              > I'm building my
              > robot on less than a shoestring budget.
              > It adds to the challenge. :-)
              >
              > Anyway, what I've got is an old stripped down UPS
              > running off of the
              > batteries and that is powering my different power
              > supplies.
              > It's stuff that I had laying around or given to me
              > for free. So far I've
              > done really well and have spent very little money.
              >
              > All I'm looking for is peoples input about whether
              > they think I could
              > get away with running the motors off of the same
              > power supply as the PC. Later on as I get a bigger
              > budget to work with
              > I'm planning to go with a DC-DC converter
              > and run the motors direct from the batteries. I
              > couldn't do that now
              > because of a floating ground issue.
              >
              > Eljin
              > Jim McBride wrote:
              >
              > >I have been reading this thread and I am wondering
              > about what you guys are
              > >considering ATX power supplies. Am I correct in
              > assuming you are talking
              > >about ATX compliant DC-DC converters?
              > >Like seen here:
              > >http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=10
              > >
              > >There seems to be talk about running your DC motors
              > from the supply. If it
              > >is a mobile robot I assume you already have a DC
              > source right? The
              > >converter I have supplies all of the ATX power with
              > an input of 11 - 30
              > >volts. There are many supplies that are designed
              > specifically for auto use.
              > >Some even go down to 6 volts.
              > >
              > >This is the one I use:
              >
              >http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.13/it.A/id.291/.f
              > >
              > >Mini-box has all sorts of nice mini-itx goodies.
              > >
              > >One reason I wrote this is to pass on info to those
              > who might need it. The
              > >other reason is for feedback telling me I went the
              > wrong direction for my
              > >power needs. I am running 15v for motors and source
              > to the supply. I am
              > >hoping the supply will be able to give me clean
              > power off of the batteries
              > >even though the motors are driven by them....
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >At 08:44 AM 1/31/2006, you wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >>How much current do your motors draw? Does your
              > robot ever stall? (my
              > >>robot does
              > >>very often, so I had to take this into account.)
              > >>
              > >>I'm in the process of redoing my robot power
              > supply so these thoughts
              > >>are very much in my head.
              > >>
              > >>What are you running on the PC? (Not related to
              > the power supply
              > >>question - just curious. I run Linux)
              > >>
              > >>M
              > >>
              > >>On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Eljin wrote:
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>>I'm running an ATX power supply feeding a PC
              > motherboard on my robot.
              > >>>My power supply for my motors went belly up and I
              > had an idea to save
              > >>>some weight on the bot. My problem is I'm not
              > sure how much interference
              > >>>I'm going to get from it.
              > >>>I'm thinking of running the motors from a couple
              > of the 12vDC lines on
              > >>>the ATX
              > >>>supply.
              > >>>Any thoughts?
              > >>>
              > >>>Thanks in advance.
              > >>>Eljin
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>Visit the SRS Website at
              > http://www.seattlerobotics.org
              > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>Visit the SRS Website at
              > http://www.seattlerobotics.org
              > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >
              > >JIMc
              > >x22661
              > >National
              > >Ignition
              > >Facility
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >Visit the SRS Website at
              > http://www.seattlerobotics.org
              > >Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > Visit the SRS Website at
              > http://www.seattlerobotics.org
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              > SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


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            • The Earl
              Ahh, I forgot that Gentoo uses the wrong init. I cant remeber which is BSD and which is SYSV, but ... Gentoo does include some nice utils to keep your init
              Message 6 of 23 , Feb 2, 2006
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                Ahh, I forgot that Gentoo uses the "wrong" init. I cant remeber which
                is BSD and which is SYSV, but ...

                Gentoo does include some nice utils to keep your init scripts in sync,
                but it is a bit of a change from just hacking rc.local to do what you
                want.

                >>Gentoo is also the only linux distribution I've ever used which hasn't tied
                >>itself into knots and gone belly up within 6 months of install.

                You haven't tried Slackware ;)

                Thanks

                On 2/1/06, Eljin ljohnson-at-accessnet.com |6812-the|
                <...> wrote:
                > That's really good information. I appreciate that and I'll look into it.
                > Thanks
                > Eljin
                >
                > The Earl wrote:
                >
                > >If you are using a package system w/ slack, then Gentoo will act
                > >similar except it will compile all packages before installing them.
                > >
                > >With slack, i tended to build most packages from source. It allows
                > >faster and tighter code that is optimized for your processor, rather
                > >than the default i586 compiled packages. Gentoo can build all of the
                > >system from scratch, getting the optimization for everything including
                > >GCC, GlibC and whatever else.
                > >
                > >I am moving to Gentoo from Slack b/c I can get a compact and fast
                > >system with apt-get (emerge) functionality that can still keep track
                > >of my oddball software installed from source. Since Gentoo installs
                > >from source anyway, it is a simple matter to tell emerge about the
                > >software you downloaded and compiled. Then you have nice clean
                > >uninstall capability and upgrade. You also can farm the compilation
                > >off to a set of machines to run faster.
                > >
                > >The biggest difference I have found between the two is Gentoo's use of
                > >PAM. I found a good tutorial on how to remove it, so I dont have to
                > >meddle with it on my systems. I dont like PAM b/c it seems to break a
                > >lot of things. I doged a lot of security holes w/ Slack b/c they were
                > >related to PAM like SSH.
                > >
                > >I dont normally run a GUI on my Gentoo systems, so I dont know how
                > >involved that is. I didnt have any trouble with a stage-0 install my
                > >first time, so I would give it a try....
                > >
                > >Gentoo also gave me some insight on how to cross-build a system. I
                > >think I could, with a lot of trial and error, build a MIPS system on a
                > >i86 platform and at least get it to boot. That would be really usefull
                > >for CF based systems, since I could create the CF image on a much more
                > >powerful machine, then move it to the embedded system to run.
                > >
                > >Anyway, I have used Slack for over a decade, and I love it, but Gentoo
                > >solves a lot of the problems with Slack, and allows me a bit more
                > >flexibility in what I do with it.
                > >
                > >On 1/31/06, Eljin ljohnson-at-accessnet.com |6812-the|
                > ><...> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >>Way cool site. I bookmarked it immediately. I was very glad to see that
                > >>you had included the OAP site.
                > >>
                > >>What you are doing with the memory cards is exactly what I was trying to
                > >>do with a couple of thumb drives recently.
                > >>
                > >>Why Gentoo? I'm interested, cause I'm using Slackware and want to see if
                > >>there is anything better out there.
                > >>I've heard of Gentoo before and just haven't had a chance to check it
                > >>out yet.
                > >>
                > >>michael@... wrote:
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>>On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Eljin wrote:
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>>OAP Wiki site for Lee Johnson
                > >>>><http://www.openautomaton.org/community/LeeJohnson?action=show>
                > >>>>http://www.openautomaton.org/community/LeeJohnson?action=show
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>Thanks. I'll check it out from home.
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>>This will take you to the OAP WIKI site and my spot there specifically.
                > >>>>I've got a running description of what I've done with the building of this
                > >>>>one.
                > >>>>
                > >>>>To answer your question though, it's running off a stripped down UPS.
                > >>>>
                > >>>>If I could ask, how much was your DC-DC converter and where did you get it?
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>M1-ATX power supply $ 62. I got it from a local vendor (Leadman), but I
                > >>>know they are available on the web. Originally I had a much less
                > >>>expensive version but its input was limited to 12VDC. I changed to the
                > >>>fancier M1 because it can sustain charging voltage of 13.8 and also it
                > >>>survives brownouts better.
                > >>>
                > >>>I did this so my robot could have the charger normally hooked up,
                > >>>charging the battery, but when someone logs in and runs a program to
                > >>>move the robot (it's live on the Internet and people can log in anytime
                > >>>to compile and run programs) it can disconnect and roam around. A future
                > >>>project is to construct a docking station so after roaming it can be
                > >>>programmed to find its way back and plug itself in. Right now, it will
                > >>>just roam for a couple of hours and then die, unless someone is at home
                > >>>to plug it in.
                > >>>
                > >>>Mine is described at www.linuxrobots.org/wiki/michael_shiloh
                > >>>
                > >>>Michael
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>>Eljin
                > >>>>
                > >>>>michael@... wrote:
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>>Excellent! Same as me (Linux, Little Tykes.) I think those motors draw
                > >>>>>less than an amp normally, and a couple of amps when stalled.
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>So how do you power the ATX power supply with? An inverter? Or is this a
                > >>>>>tethered robot? Or is this ATX supply a DC to DC device as someone else
                > >>>>>suggested?
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>I would be very reluctant to power those motors from the same power
                > >>>>>supply that is powering the motherboard.
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>My robot is untethered. I use a pair of gell cells: one for the motors
                > >>>>>and interface electronics (which have their own regulators), and one
                > >>>>>for the DC to DC ATX power supply which is used for the motherboard
                > >>>>>and CF card alone.
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>I'd be interested in seeing pics and/or more about your robot (offlist
                > >>>>>if people prefer).
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>Michael
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Eljin wrote:
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>>Linux absolutely! Wouldn't run anything else.
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>As far as motor current, I don't have the specs on the motors, so I
                > >>>>>>couldn't actually tell you.
                > >>>>>>I do know that I pulled them out of a couple of those Little Tykes ride
                > >>>>>>on toys. I'm certain they can't pull more
                > >>>>>>current than the power supply is capable of. I'm more worried about
                > >>>>>>starting and stopping current draws and
                > >>>>>>especially any noise that they will create getting back into the
                > >>>>>>motherboard.
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>Eljin
                > >>>>>>michael@... wrote:
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>How much current do your motors draw? Does your robot ever stall? (my robot does
                > >>>>>>>very often, so I had to take this into account.)
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>I'm in the process of redoing my robot power supply so these thoughts
                > >>>>>>>are very much in my head.
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>What are you running on the PC? (Not related to the power supply
                > >>>>>>>question - just curious. I run Linux)
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>M
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Eljin wrote:
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>>I'm running an ATX power supply feeding a PC motherboard on my robot.
                > >>>>>>>>My power supply for my motors went belly up and I had an idea to save
                > >>>>>>>>some weight on the bot. My problem is I'm not sure how much interference
                > >>>>>>>>I'm going to get from it.
                > >>>>>>>>I'm thinking of running the motors from a couple of the 12vDC lines on
                > >>>>>>>>the ATX
                > >>>>>>>>supply.
                > >>>>>>>>Any thoughts?
                > >>>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>>Thanks in advance.
                > >>>>>>>>Eljin
                > >>>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>>Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                > >>>>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >>>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                > >>>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>>
                > >>>>>>Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                > >>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                > >>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                > >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>
                > >>Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                > >Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
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