Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [SeattleRobotics] robot tactile sensor skin

Expand Messages
  • Erik Wysocan
    Hi, I ve looked into this peizo solution as well as air bag switches that paul mentioned. I think both may work (the porcupine configuration is a clever idea)
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 31, 2000
      Hi,

      I've looked into this peizo solution as well as air bag switches that paul
      mentioned. I think both may work (the porcupine configuration is a clever
      idea) - but, I'm trying to find something rather low profile. More skin
      like. I did just discover a sensor called 'Force Sensitive resistors' or
      FSR's which resemble touchpads on laptops. Actually what i've seen of these
      so far are bit overkill for my application which is to say: basically a
      large flat 2 state switch. I've considered trying to make something similar
      to the FSR's my self. Basically all it would be is two conductive sheets
      with a semi-resistant layer in between that would change resistance with
      pressure. The tricky part is the middle layer of course. So far the only
      thing that has worked at all is sandwiching that anti-static foam (the black
      foam that IC's are stuck on to protect them) between two sheets of thin
      metal or foil. however the foam is a little too stiff, too thick, and gives
      a low range of resitance/force. One other thought was to dope a liquid
      adhesive (the flexible variety) with conductive particles and use that to
      stick the two outer layers together. This sounds like a nightmare though.

      anyway, still looking for information on SFR's...

      - erik


      ----------
      >From: Paul Jurczak <pauljurczak@...>
      >To: SeattleRobotics@egroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] robot tactile sensor skin
      >Date: Tue, Oct 31, 2000, 7:11 PM
      >

      > Erik,
      >
      > check Digi-Key LDT Vibration Sensor for $.75. I did number of
      > experiments with piezo polymer sensors a few years ago, when they were
      > sold by AMD and you have to place minimum order of
      > $100 to get some. At $.75 they are perfect choice for feelers type
      > contact sensor - for $42 you could put 100 of them on your robot,
      > porcupine style. They are pretty sensitive, even to slow bending, which
      > should generate about 25mV output. When you tap them with your finger
      > against hard surface you can get 300mV and higher spikes. I would use
      > the sensor itself as a feeler or extend it with something very light
      > like stripe of transparency sheet. Larger mass attached to the end will
      > vibrate when your robot moves and generate noise.
      >
      > Paul.
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: erik $$ wysocan <erik@...>
      > To: <SeattleRobotics@egroups.com>
      > Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 3:27 PM
      > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] robot tactile sensor skin
      >
      >
      >> Hello,
      >>
      >> does anyone know of a large area (about 5" square) switch/sensor that
      > might
      >> be used as a sort of robot skin for use with collision detection.
      > Perhaps
      >> something similar to low-end (as in low resolution) touchscreen
      > technology -
      >> or large membrane style switch. There is one company I know of that
      > seems
      > to
      >> make what I'm looking for
      >>
      > (http://www.foryou.net/~hallco/products/product_showcase.htm#floor%20sensor)
      >> . Unfortunately they are more of a BtoB high-run sort of a thing and
      > not
      >> particularly accessible to individuals...
      >>
      >> I have been considering piezo type bend/vibration sensors - but it is
      >> difficult to determine just how sensitive they would be to a
      > collision
      >> situation. Has anybody had any experience with this?
      >> thanks,
      >> - erik wysocan
      >
      >
      >
      > __________________________________________________
      > Do You Yahoo!?
      >>From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.
      > http://experts.yahoo.com/
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Bryan Minugh
      Some laptop PCs have a touch pad to move the mouse pointer. The same pads are for sale to plug into a desktop PC. I often see old stock on clearance for a few
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 3, 2000
        Some laptop PCs have a touch pad to move the mouse pointer. The same pads
        are for sale to plug into a desktop PC. I often see old stock on clearance
        for a few dollars at computer stores, surplus stores and computer surplus
        web sites. Page size versions are sold as drawing tablets for kids. I'm not
        sure if the modern pads work the same as my old Atari one did, but it
        provided two variable resistances, one for the X position, one for the Y
        position. I suppose you could read the resistance as a switch closure if you
        don't care about the X-Y data.

        -Bryan Minugh

        -----Original Message-----
        From: erik $$ wysocan [mailto:erik@...]
        Subject: [SeattleRobotics] robot tactile sensor skin

        Hello,

        does anyone know of a large area (about 5" square) switch/sensor that might
        be used as a sort of robot skin for use with collision detection. Perhaps
        something similar to low-end (as in low resolution) touchscreen technology -
        or large membrane style switch. There is one company I know of that seems to
        make what I'm looking for
        (http://www.foryou.net/~hallco/products/product_showcase.htm#floor%20sensor)
        . Unfortunately they are more of a BtoB high-run sort of a thing and not
        particularly accessible to individuals...

        I have been considering piezo type bend/vibration sensors - but it is
        difficult to determine just how sensitive they would be to a collision
        situation. Has anybody had any experience with this?
        thanks,
        - erik wysocan
      • bryan@visi.com
        ... Very sensitive. Sensitive enough that it would pick up the flexing of the robot s body. If anything you would need some sort of threshold circuit to keep
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 3, 2000
          > I have been considering piezo type bend/vibration sensors - but it is
          > difficult to determine just how sensitive they would be to a collision
          > situation. Has anybody had any experience with this?
          > thanks,

          Very sensitive. Sensitive enough that it would pick up the flexing of
          the robot's body. If anything you would need some sort of threshold
          circuit to keep it from triggering from vibrations. This is easy to do
          seeing you need an interface amplifier to work with piezo sensors.
        • FThompson9@aol.com
          In a message dated 11/01/2000 12:52:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... Have you considered conductive foam (the black stuff that chips used to be sold on) and
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 6, 2000
            In a message dated 11/01/2000 12:52:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,
            erik@... writes:

            > but, I'm trying to find something rather low profile. More skin
            > like.


            Have you considered conductive foam (the black stuff that chips used to be
            sold on) and aluminum foil? Resistance of conductive foam changes as it is
            squished. I believe recovery time is long, and you will need to sandwich the
            foil and foam between something (don't know how to glue foil to foam without
            insulating it). But I think it would work well as a problem detector.

            Pherd
          • Mike Jones
            I while back there was discussion on the legged robot egroups list about this. (maybe a year ago) I remember coming across a company, I think it was
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 4, 2001
              I while back there was discussion on the legged robot egroups list about
              this. (maybe a year ago) I remember coming across a company, I think it
              was

              www.interlink.com

              That sells the pressure sensors used in the pads on laptops and graphics
              tablets. They are resistive devices but would require an amp circuit to
              do very well. I seem to remember a sampler kit being available and various
              sizes. Maybe a search of the Internet for "pressure resistor" will verify
              the above URL.

              Mike


              >hello,
              >
              >I while back when I was researching 'robot tactile skin' solutions I
              found
              >this product:
              >http://www.irmicrolink.com/zoflex.html
              >
              >it's a thin pressure sensitive conductive rubber - not very cheap - but
              not
              >too bad either. I haven't tried this product yet, but sounds like a good

              >solution.
              >
              >If anyone tries it...let me know how it works out.
              >
              >- erik
              >
              >----- Original Message -----
              >From: "Bryan E. Daniel" <bedaniel@...>
              >To: <bminugh@...>; "erik $$ wysocan" <erik@...>;
              ><SeattleRobotics@egroups.com>
              >Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 1:37 PM
              >Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] RE: robot tactile sensor skin: PC touch
              pad
              >
              >
              >> Hello SRS,
              >>
              >> An early computer drawing tablet peripheral was called "Koala Pad".

              >> It was made for Apple, Atari, and Commodore home computers and came
              with a
              >5
              >> 1/4" floppy disk. Koala Pads are sometimes found in thrift stores or
              on
              >Vintage
              >> Computer auction pages like on Ebay.
              >>
              >> Touchscreens had a framework of LED emitters and detectors arranged
              around
              >the
              >> computer screen so that a finger placed on the screen would be detected
              by
              >> breaking the lightbeam between emitter-detector pairs and the coordinates

              >of the
              >> emitter-detectors would be taken.
              >> The resolution was dependent on the number of emitter-detectors across
              and
              >up
              >> and down the touchscreen frame.
              >>
              >> Mattel and Nintendo Power Gloves contained bend sensors in the glove

              >fingers.
              >>
              >> Electronic weight scales used pre-stressed beams with calibrated stress

              >gauge
              >> sensors.
              >> Soft semi-conductive foam placed between foil sheets might detect touch.

              >It
              >> would be nice if there is a semi-conductive foam in a spray can.
              >>
              >> Capacitive sensing can achieved by setting up a tuned circuit which
              goes
              >in and
              >> out of tune depending on how close the tuned circuit antenna is to nearby

              >> objects. Dense objects have more effect on the tuning or signal reception.

              >>
              >> Bryan E. Daniel
              >> Bellevue, Washington
              >>
              >> Bryan Minugh wrote:
              >>
              >> > Some laptop PCs have a touch pad to move the mouse pointer. The same

              >pads
              >> > are for sale to plug into a desktop PC. I often see old stock on
              >clearance
              >> > for a few dollars at computer stores, surplus stores and computer

              >surplus
              >> > web sites. Page size versions are sold as drawing tablets for kids.
              I'm
              >not
              >> > sure if the modern pads work the same as my old Atari one did, but
              it
              >> > provided two variable resistances, one for the X position, one for
              the Y
              >> > position. I suppose you could read the resistance as a switch closure
              if
              >you
              >> > don't care about the X-Y data.
              >> >
              >> > -Bryan Minugh
              >> >
              >> > -----Original Message-----
              >> > From: erik $$ wysocan [mailto:erik@...]
              >> > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] robot tactile sensor skin
              >> >
              >> > Hello,
              >> >
              >> > does anyone know of a large area (about 5" square) switch/sensor that

              >might
              >> > be used as a sort of robot skin for use with collision detection.

              >Perhaps
              >> > something similar to low-end (as in low resolution) touchscreen
              >technology -
              >> > or large membrane style switch. There is one company I know of that

              >seems to
              >> > make what I'm looking for
              >> >
              >(http://www.foryou.net/~hallco/products/product_showcase.htm#floor%20sensor)

              >> > . Unfortunately they are more of a BtoB high-run sort of a thing and
              not
              >> > particularly accessible to individuals...
              >> >
              >> > I have been considering piezo type bend/vibration sensors - but it
              is
              >> > difficult to determine just how sensitive they would be to a collision

              >> > situation. Has anybody had any experience with this?
              >> > thanks,
              >> > - erik wysocan
              >> >
              >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              >> > SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              >SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • erik $$ wysocan
              hello, I while back when I was researching robot tactile skin solutions I found this product: http://www.irmicrolink.com/zoflex.html it s a thin pressure
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 4, 2001
                hello,

                I while back when I was researching 'robot tactile skin' solutions I found
                this product:
                http://www.irmicrolink.com/zoflex.html

                it's a thin pressure sensitive conductive rubber - not very cheap - but not
                too bad either. I haven't tried this product yet, but sounds like a good
                solution.

                If anyone tries it...let me know how it works out.

                - erik

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Bryan E. Daniel" <bedaniel@...>
                To: <bminugh@...>; "erik $$ wysocan" <erik@...>;
                <SeattleRobotics@egroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 1:37 PM
                Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] RE: robot tactile sensor skin: PC touch pad


                > Hello SRS,
                >
                > An early computer drawing tablet peripheral was called "Koala Pad".
                > It was made for Apple, Atari, and Commodore home computers and came with a
                5
                > 1/4" floppy disk. Koala Pads are sometimes found in thrift stores or on
                Vintage
                > Computer auction pages like on Ebay.
                >
                > Touchscreens had a framework of LED emitters and detectors arranged around
                the
                > computer screen so that a finger placed on the screen would be detected by
                > breaking the lightbeam between emitter-detector pairs and the coordinates
                of the
                > emitter-detectors would be taken.
                > The resolution was dependent on the number of emitter-detectors across and
                up
                > and down the touchscreen frame.
                >
                > Mattel and Nintendo Power Gloves contained bend sensors in the glove
                fingers.
                >
                > Electronic weight scales used pre-stressed beams with calibrated stress
                gauge
                > sensors.
                > Soft semi-conductive foam placed between foil sheets might detect touch.
                It
                > would be nice if there is a semi-conductive foam in a spray can.
                >
                > Capacitive sensing can achieved by setting up a tuned circuit which goes
                in and
                > out of tune depending on how close the tuned circuit antenna is to nearby
                > objects. Dense objects have more effect on the tuning or signal reception.
                >
                > Bryan E. Daniel
                > Bellevue, Washington
                >
                > Bryan Minugh wrote:
                >
                > > Some laptop PCs have a touch pad to move the mouse pointer. The same
                pads
                > > are for sale to plug into a desktop PC. I often see old stock on
                clearance
                > > for a few dollars at computer stores, surplus stores and computer
                surplus
                > > web sites. Page size versions are sold as drawing tablets for kids. I'm
                not
                > > sure if the modern pads work the same as my old Atari one did, but it
                > > provided two variable resistances, one for the X position, one for the Y
                > > position. I suppose you could read the resistance as a switch closure if
                you
                > > don't care about the X-Y data.
                > >
                > > -Bryan Minugh
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: erik $$ wysocan [mailto:erik@...]
                > > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] robot tactile sensor skin
                > >
                > > Hello,
                > >
                > > does anyone know of a large area (about 5" square) switch/sensor that
                might
                > > be used as a sort of robot skin for use with collision detection.
                Perhaps
                > > something similar to low-end (as in low resolution) touchscreen
                technology -
                > > or large membrane style switch. There is one company I know of that
                seems to
                > > make what I'm looking for
                > >
                (http://www.foryou.net/~hallco/products/product_showcase.htm#floor%20sensor)
                > > . Unfortunately they are more of a BtoB high-run sort of a thing and not
                > > particularly accessible to individuals...
                > >
                > > I have been considering piezo type bend/vibration sensors - but it is
                > > difficult to determine just how sensitive they would be to a collision
                > > situation. Has anybody had any experience with this?
                > > thanks,
                > > - erik wysocan
                > >
                > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                >
                >
              • Bryan E. Daniel
                Hello SRS, An early computer drawing tablet peripheral was called Koala Pad . It was made for Apple, Atari, and Commodore home computers and came with a 5
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 4, 2001
                  Hello SRS,

                  An early computer drawing tablet peripheral was called "Koala Pad".
                  It was made for Apple, Atari, and Commodore home computers and came with a 5
                  1/4" floppy disk. Koala Pads are sometimes found in thrift stores or on Vintage
                  Computer auction pages like on Ebay.

                  Touchscreens had a framework of LED emitters and detectors arranged around the
                  computer screen so that a finger placed on the screen would be detected by
                  breaking the lightbeam between emitter-detector pairs and the coordinates of the
                  emitter-detectors would be taken.
                  The resolution was dependent on the number of emitter-detectors across and up
                  and down the touchscreen frame.

                  Mattel and Nintendo Power Gloves contained bend sensors in the glove fingers.

                  Electronic weight scales used pre-stressed beams with calibrated stress gauge
                  sensors.
                  Soft semi-conductive foam placed between foil sheets might detect touch. It
                  would be nice if there is a semi-conductive foam in a spray can.

                  Capacitive sensing can achieved by setting up a tuned circuit which goes in and
                  out of tune depending on how close the tuned circuit antenna is to nearby
                  objects. Dense objects have more effect on the tuning or signal reception.

                  Bryan E. Daniel
                  Bellevue, Washington

                  Bryan Minugh wrote:

                  > Some laptop PCs have a touch pad to move the mouse pointer. The same pads
                  > are for sale to plug into a desktop PC. I often see old stock on clearance
                  > for a few dollars at computer stores, surplus stores and computer surplus
                  > web sites. Page size versions are sold as drawing tablets for kids. I'm not
                  > sure if the modern pads work the same as my old Atari one did, but it
                  > provided two variable resistances, one for the X position, one for the Y
                  > position. I suppose you could read the resistance as a switch closure if you
                  > don't care about the X-Y data.
                  >
                  > -Bryan Minugh
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: erik $$ wysocan [mailto:erik@...]
                  > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] robot tactile sensor skin
                  >
                  > Hello,
                  >
                  > does anyone know of a large area (about 5" square) switch/sensor that might
                  > be used as a sort of robot skin for use with collision detection. Perhaps
                  > something similar to low-end (as in low resolution) touchscreen technology -
                  > or large membrane style switch. There is one company I know of that seems to
                  > make what I'm looking for
                  > (http://www.foryou.net/~hallco/products/product_showcase.htm#floor%20sensor)
                  > . Unfortunately they are more of a BtoB high-run sort of a thing and not
                  > particularly accessible to individuals...
                  >
                  > I have been considering piezo type bend/vibration sensors - but it is
                  > difficult to determine just how sensitive they would be to a collision
                  > situation. Has anybody had any experience with this?
                  > thanks,
                  > - erik wysocan
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                • bnansel@nauticom.net
                  ... They are called Pressure Sensitive Resistors, I believe. I have one of their design kits around here somewhere I got six or seven years ago. Seems to me it
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 4, 2001
                    At 3:00 PM 1/4/01, Mike Jones wrote:
                    >I while back there was discussion on the legged robot egroups list about
                    >this. (maybe a year ago) I remember coming across a company, I think it
                    >was
                    >
                    >www.interlink.com
                    >
                    >That sells the pressure sensors used in the pads on laptops and graphics
                    >tablets. They are resistive devices but would require an amp circuit to
                    >do very well. I seem to remember a sampler kit being available and various
                    >sizes. Maybe a search of the Internet for "pressure resistor" will verify
                    >the above URL.
                    >
                    >Mike
                    >

                    They are called Pressure Sensitive Resistors, I believe. I have one of
                    their design kits around here somewhere I got six or seven years ago. Seems
                    to me it cost something like $70 back then, but there's about six dozen
                    different sensors included in that.

                    -RLN
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.